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Stephen Jones and The Beano comic
Old Geezer (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 09:41
When I was young I used to get mu laughs from The Beano comic. Nowadays I wait for Stephen Jones on a Sunday after England have played.

This time It is again how he scores players.

Farrel gets a 7. However, it was Farrel's unnecessary late tackle early on which led to a penalty and then another penalty from which a try was scored. England were immediately on the back foot. I don't criticize Farrel for his poor performance off the tee because they were difficult kicks but in the past, when he is kicking well we have seen him get them. So, i would say his kicking was not up to its usual standard and would not merit a good rating for him. Two aspects on which I would mark him down, not give him a 7.

Mako, however, gets a 5. I don't think there was an England player on the pitch who put in more effort, save perhaps Hask. Mako had some success on the gain line with his charges.

Yet again I say that SJ is a journalist who writes about rugby rather than being someone like Slot who understands the game.

 
Re: Stephen Jones and The Beano comic
DGPWasp (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 09:52
Reliable goal kicking has long been held up as the primary reason why a place must be found for him in the England team. Yet in this 6N I'd be surprised if his kicking percentage was more than about 60% which is nowhere near test match standard. 0/3 yesterday admittedly not the easiest, but he missed all 3, the last very badly. Ironically while Farrell's kicking has not been up to its usual standard, a gifted fly half with a reputation as a bit of a flaky kicker has been kicking superbly for Wasps, even displacing Gopperth as the established first choice since he came back from injury.

If Farrell has lost that particular string from his bow, then he is no longer as undroppable as some seem to think.

 
Re: Stephen Jones and The Beano comic
John Tee (IP Logged)
18 March, 2018 10:11
I've always said Farrell finds his way into the team for his kicking.. And therefore if that is average then he should certainly be droppable. His inclusion can unbalance the backline so he needs to bring more to the party to justify it, Imo.
He is suffering along with a few others...I can't fault his commitment but his game outside goalkicking is not top draw....that is why you put Ford there to counter...but it hasn't really convinced for a long while.. If at all, Imv.

Don't hammer the backs if they don't get good ball. That is what the forwards have to try and provide.
As it happens wasps do well with a bollocking forward pack...and Farrell and Ford need that pack.

Anyway, old news, Afaiac

Daley was useful. I liked Sinker, Mako put in a shift and Robo and Hask toiled.
But the team set up was not good enough.
Who will Jones bring in....no one as he had had three years to.look at people and here we are....

I'd be looking very closely at the model the coach is pushing because everyone knows how limited it is...

 
Re: Stephen Jones and The Beano comic
1978Wasp (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 17:01
Farrell only deserved a 5, should have had 2 points if not more deducted for that dumb late tackle on Kearney.

It gave them an 80 yard gain with their thrown in and the whole impetus of the game with the try that followed. Instead of us having the ball on their 10m line with plenty of running space. Dumb, unnecessary and very costly. Plus there is a guy who does the "who me ref?" innocent look about as well as Billy Bremner used to do it (for those of you of a certain age) or Lol or Neil back.

By the way another very poor TMO who could not see the Kearney knock on.

 
Re: Stephen Jones and The Beano comic
kentwasp1 (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 19:37
Quote:
John Tee
I've always said Farrell finds his way into the team for his kicking.. And therefore if that is average then he should certainly be droppable. His inclusion can unbalance the backline so he needs to bring more to the party to justify it, Imo.
He is suffering along with a few others...I can't fault his commitment but his game outside goalkicking is not top draw....that is why you put Ford there to counter...but it hasn't really convinced for a long while.. If at all, Imv.

Don't hammer the backs if they don't get good ball. That is what the forwards have to try and provide.
As it happens wasps do well with a bollocking forward pack...and Farrell and Ford need that pack.

Anyway, old news, Afaiac

Daley was useful. I liked Sinker, Mako put in a shift and Robo and Hask toiled.
But the team set up was not good enough.
Who will Jones bring in....no one as he had had three years to.look at people and here we are....

I'd be looking very closely at the model the coach is pushing because everyone knows how limited it is...

Sent you a PM to suggest if you are going to remaining games we meet up to debate - am intrigued

 
Re: Stephen Jones and The Beano comic
Bracken&Macken (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 19:59
Completely agree John. Farrell has now been a pivotal player in a side that got knocked out the group stage of a home World Cup and finished fifth in the six nations.

I canít believe it would be the worst idea in the world to try something else. Not for one game, for an autumn series or a six nations. He will always be there kicking goals in a Sarries shirt if you want to fall back on him.

 
Re: Stephen Jones and The Beano comic
Beckenham Bandit (IP Logged)
20 March, 2018 00:03
Quote:
John Tee
I've always said Farrell finds his way into the team for his kicking.. And therefore if that is average then he should certainly be droppable. His inclusion can unbalance the backline so he needs to bring more to the party to justify it, Imo.
He is suffering along with a few others...I can't fault his commitment but his game outside goalkicking is not top draw....that is why you put Ford there to counter...but it hasn't really convinced for a long while.. If at all, Imv.

Don't hammer the backs if they don't get good ball. That is what the forwards have to try and provide.
As it happens wasps do well with a bollocking forward pack...and Farrell and Ford need that pack.

Anyway, old news, Afaiac

Daley was useful. I liked Sinker, Mako put in a shift and Robo and Hask toiled.
But the team set up was not good enough.
Who will Jones bring in....no one as he had had three years to.look at people and here we are....

I'd be looking very closely at the model the coach is pushing because everyone knows how limited it is...

Farrell is a highly effective 2nd 5/8 at 12. Remember England, the Lions and Saracens have played some very good rugby with him there. However he does pose problems. England can't build a backline around Farrell at 12 unless there are other players who can replace as a 2nd 5/8. Eddie Jones just hasn't developed a like for like replacement for him. Piers Francis? Lozowski?

The two 5/8s structure at 10 and 12 can be highly effective given the right playing resources and the right circumstances. Unsurprisingly given Jones's background it is the default way Australian teams tend to play. Do England have the right playing resources to make it work? Questionable.

In terms of Farrell as an international 10 I have never been convinced. He lacks natural time and composure in possession, doesn't have a natural running game and isn't a good tactican or game manager. Also his punting style means his kicks fly low off the boot. Making vulnerable to being charged down.

Farrell is either a 12 or he isn't in the team. If he is 12 then Jones needs to find some like for like replacements for him when he is either injured or out of form.

 
Re: Stephen Jones and The Beano comic
westwaleswasp (IP Logged)
20 March, 2018 07:45
Yeah, I feel very similarly, though I can't recall him getting charged down.
As a ten... no. At club level he has a well resourced pack ahead of him that has given him armchair rides, but I could not see that level of dominance on the international stage. He is not able to play in traffic and does not seem to hit the shoulders and find the gaps as a ten, nor does he induce those gaps. I do think he has reasonable game management.
As the 2nd 5/8 I think he offers more, I think the strategy works, it is just Eddie has seen Ford's game dive and has not found replacements for a lot of his players.


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