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Times this morning on Nate
Heathen (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 07:17
The plot thickens :


Nathan Hughes, the Wasps and England No 8, was hopeful last night that he would not be suspended from playing for England in the autumn Test series next month.

After four hours of hearing evidence, an independent disciplinary panel failed to come to a conclusion last night over whether he should be suspended further for foul play in Wasps’ game against Gloucester and will reconvene in under a week.


Hughes could still be suspended for six weeks or more, which would discount him from playing for England in the autumn series. He had been cited for punching Lewis Ludlow, the Gloucester flanker.

In highly unusual circumstances, however, the three-man panel failed to come to a conclusion which, according to a statement released late last night, was because of “an issue that arose during the evening”. The RFU would not disclose the nature of this issue and has issued a directive that neither Hughes nor his club disclose any information.

Hughes will be suspended from playing until the conclusion of this case. It remains uncertain, therefore, whether he will be able to play for Wasps in their Heineken Champions Cup opener against Leinster tomorrow night. If the hearing is reconvened before the Leinster game, and Hughes is acquitted, then he will be able to play. Wasps are likely to push for the hearing to be rearranged as soon as possible.

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
Beasties (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 07:26
Times is a bit more instructive than the Gruniad. Throws a bit more doubt on the eventual outcome.

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
mike909 (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 07:53
Perhaps self defence is an allowable mitigation?

Not sure any of us would just lie there and politely ask a large forward to kindly get their forearm off their windpipe - assuming of course - you were able to speak whilst being crushed.......

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
StevieWasp (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 08:18
The Times article says they'll reconvene in less than 7 days.

The press article from the rfu says they'll reconvene in NOT LESS than 7 days

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
backdoc (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 08:28
What about the Glos player?

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
bald.paul.101 (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 08:37
I do struggle with all this.

How can it take 4 hours to NOT come to a conclusion.

In my mind surely the hearing must go like this:

Read the charges.
Hear a plea.
view or listen to the evidence
Hear any mitigation.
Make a decision

How can it take 4 hours to do that & still not decide on an outcome?

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
neils (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 08:41
Posted on the other thread -

Can't help feeling that as Ludlow was involved in both last nights citing reviews and nothing has been said about his "stamping" on Daly then it is something to do with his involvement. Perhaps the intent is to punish Nathan for the punch but they need to look freshly at the provocation and whether that requires sanction as an arm to the throat is in its own way a head tackle.

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
StevieWasp (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 08:44
The concern for me is the tweet from Nathan.
He's obviously incredibly unhappy with the way the hearing went.

That could be frustration from being suspended until they make a decision, but it could be something significantly worse (no idea what it could be though)

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
Laterontoday (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 08:46
'How can it take 4 hours to do that & still not decide on an outcome?'

Perhaps the panel members are paid sorry reimbursed their expenses on an hourly rate. Maybe if they deliberate for more than 2 hours they get some nice biscuits, after three a nice lunch, get to four......

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
steve from cov (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 09:39
Very puzzling.

Is there any chance that ‘The issue that arose during the evening’ is something to do with his tweet or conduct last night?

I’m really surprised his hearing was adjourned when the incident appeared to be fairly routine.

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
Tervueren (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 09:52
The tweet was probably nothing to do with the hearing, he was most likely reading through this forum and just got to Shush's joke about the half-time oranges in the injury updates thread (http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s96.htm?98,16428034,page=2) and felt it worthy of comment.

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
bg (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 09:57
Are the hearings (kangaroo court) there to find if someone is guilty or not.. or do they assume guilt and are there to dish out the length of ban.

Someone on the tiggers board has suggested he tweeted from within the hearing itself?

Does anyone know the time he tweeted and whether this is true.

If so, this may well be the reason for delaying the verdict. Contempt of kangaroo court

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
Boooo (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 10:09
Ludlow's forearm on Nathan doesn't even get a mention.

[www.englandrugby.com]

Lewis Ludlow of Gloucester has been given a four-week ban after appearing before an independent disciplinary on Wednesday.

He was cited by independent citing commissioner Andy Blyth following the match Wasps v Gloucester on Saturday 6 October 2018 for stamping or trampling Wasps' Elliot Daly contrary to Law 9.12.

Ludlow contested the charge but was found guilty by the independent disciplinary panel comprising Gareth Graham (chair) with Matthew Weaver and Martyn Wood. He is free to play again on Tuesday 6 November 2018.

"The panel accepted that this was a dynamic situation; the incident occurred over a very short period," said independent panel chair Graham.

"The player knew that there were bodies on the floor and, in counter-rucking, attempted to step over them.

"In so doing, he ran the risk that he may commit an act of foul play by making contact with the head or body of an opposition player. By stepping on the opposition player, his actions fell squarely within the definition of a reckless act under the RFU Regulations. The panel found that this act of foul play passed the red card threshold.

"The mandatory entry point for contact to the head is mid-range under the sanction table; a ban of six weeks. The player did not accept the charge. He expressed remorse for his actions and had positive character references. While he has one previous matter on his record, it was four years old. The panel felt that on balance, taking into account all factors, they could reduce the overall sanction by two weeks to take account of his mitigation. He is free to play again on the 6 November."



I feel sorry for Nathan.
What are you supposed to do if someone is trying to break your windpipe?
You can't just take it. You HAVE to fight back!!
It's just human nature.

As a result, he could lose tens of thousands of pounds, miss out on Europe and potentially his England squad place.
For a humble guy from humble background...this must be very stressful and worrying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2018 10:10 by Boooo.

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
11 October, 2018 10:12
I didn't think Ludlow was charged for incident with Nathan, so I assume that's why there was no mention.



If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score? - Vince Lombardi

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
Petergwilson (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 10:15
Surely you are innocent until proven guilty. He hasn't been proven guilty (yet) so why is he suspended. If he is found not guilty will he be allowed to go back in time and play tomorrow's match. Toulon all over again.

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
Boooo (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 10:21
Quote:
DrHankPym(superhero)
I didn't think Ludlow was charged for incident with Nathan, so I assume that's why there was no mention.

So a forearm aggressively compressed down on to your windpipe and neck, backed by over 100kg of weight, is not illegal?
Furthermore, what is the victim/attacked player supposed to do in response?
All this talk about protecting players from neck and head injuries.
Yet, you can get away with this!!


I'm falling out of love with rugby!
It's just shooting itself in the foot. Everywhere.

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
11 October, 2018 10:24
Quote:
Petergwilson
Surely you are innocent until proven guilty. He hasn't been proven guilty (yet) so why is he suspended. If he is found not guilty will he be allowed to go back in time and play tomorrow's match. Toulon all over again.

I suppose this is the flipside to the scenario with Ashley, whose ban was backdated to include matches he played in.

Nothing like consistency within the RFU disciplinary process.



If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score? - Vince Lombardi

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
Gaz (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 10:33
We should be grateful that the panel are following due process to get to the correct outcome - slights on their biscuits, reimbursement, etc are not relevant. You never know they might be trying to help Nathan. Must respect the process.

If - and I emphasise the 'if' - the cause of delay was something Nathan said or did then he is a moron and deserves this to be dragged out. Not suggesting it is the case.

Ludlow could have been cited for pinning Nathan down but wasn't - in a match this would normally be a word from the referee, a reversal of a penalty, or 10 metres, etc so not that big a deal. It could be a mitigation but as it wasn't cited perhaps they could not easily accept it as such ...?

Anyway, Nathan is a big boy, 6'5" 20st, he plays a contact sport so less of the 'poor Nathan being hurted by that big man' talk. We all teach our kids not to retaliate, Nathan punched him, he shouldn't. He has previous so a ban longer than 1 or 2 weeks should be anticipated. If the panel let him off I might as well tell my kids to lamp the bullies.

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
cass402 (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 10:39
I DID tell my nipper to lamp the bullies....only way with bullies.

 
Re: Times this morning on Nate
John Tee (IP Logged)
11 October, 2018 10:42
Four weeks for ludlow is fair from video I saw.
2 weeks for the punch...?? Not that I saw much about that...just looked like 2 grappling on the floor.
However, maybe there was previous over the Daly issue and players can't carry that over.
I think he will end up with 4 weeks and if that is the case with all things considered, people haven't helped themselves at all. And that is dumb.

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