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REBUILD
loverugby1979 (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 17:38
After some time i decide to go for this topic, will be so much views but i expect that it will be constructive.
Before of all, sorry for my english. It is not my main language. Expect that you understand my personal view.
I think during the last two years after the loss to Chiefs, I think that we need a great turnround about all the team if we want to get silverware. Coaching/Staff/Players. The levels of professionalism in other teams and their level of coaching/players are very high at the momment and of course itís very difficult to overcome.
For these reasons, I think that wih the current Coaching Staff/Squad members and the environment that surround all the team will not get any silverware in the future for long time.

For me at the FINISH of the season, and with the result of it, we have to take our choice and my personal choice is a hard word-> REBUILD.

We need to start from the coaching staff.
I think that Dai give all that is capable but sorry, itís not good enough. He did many mistakes in my view like other DORís, but he is unable to overcome the superiorty of Saracens or Exeter at domestic competition. He is not the right man to give us to the next level. He was a wonderful DOR during the darks days when we hadnít players and saved us from the relegation and the extinction like a club. In those days, we seen players rising like Launch, Simmo, Daly, Wade etc.. but i think that he did not have any other choice. There was not money for new players.

You can think that iím opportunist , yeah you are maybe right, but i think that his management of determined areas havenít be good during these years.
Same problems that can be fixed from the DOR. Our defense has been poor from all his tenure. Many coaches. Yeah we have a style of play but please see Saracens or Exeter, they can score at will and they can defence like demons. Sorry i donít remember a good season in this area from 2011.


Forwards. He was a forward, but also we havenít a dominance forward pack for all these years. Iím talking of dominance, not improve from the last seasons. Not adressed.
Contracts. When we have the enough money , we have a wonderful players. Beale, Piutau, Sopoaga,Cipriani . He give us one final premiership and some semis but nothing more at Europe. Not good enough.
Individuals:
There are so much players that played for us during the last 8 years but i will go for these cases. For me, bad management. You only aim it to respect the club, one club that are one the most honoured of all the country.
Iím thinking of the likes of Jonah Holmes, Alex Lozowski, Guy Thompson. Why on the earth the DOR canít retain these wonderful players. I donít know, but i suspect that a lack of opportunies and bad managementÖ
Wade. For my personal view , you have to respect your club. A proud club that give you the great opportunity to grew as a person and a wonderful player like you are, and you can't allow that one player(whatever name is) to left the club at the middle of the season. Not, it isnít fair for the club, for the supporters and for your mates. A bad message.

Changes . Iím thinking in a plan of 3-5 years.
Coaching Staff. Personal opinion.

DOR. I will go for Joe Worsley. New ideas, new blood, great character, a wasps legend.

Head Coach/Defense coach. I will go for Shaun Edwards. He has the experiencie and the knowledge of the modern system at dometic and international level. Purchase his contract with Wigan. I donít know why it can be a another case like Danny Wilson.

Attack coach. Lee Blackett do a great job and iím not agree with a change in this area but if we have to change all , my pick will be Shane Howarth. I didnít see a line of backs under his tenure behind a poor forward pack like we had in these years.

Skill coach/Backs coach. Jimmy Gopperth. I will add his knowledge of the modern game to the squad and his ascendence to the youngsters.

Forwards coach. Rob Hunter. We know what he is capable to do with a bunch of good players at Chiefs. A dominance forward pack. Alternatives. Jerry Flannery.

Condition /strenght. Dan Baugh . Sorry but iím not a specialist in these area. But we have problems season after season with a long term injuries (inevitable in this sport of course) and we had seasons without the proper fitness to overcome the other teams(Sarries and Chiefs) at the finish.Also, I think that a change in this area is necessary.

Squad Members.

I will go for a non marquee players in the squad. Save money.
Finish the training facilities, attract home ground talent. Give opportunities to the youngsters( Willis brothers, Stuart, Porter, Umaga, Neal, Sirker, Simonds) and start from there, for me itís the correct way. Weíll play for Challenge Cup during 2-3 years or maybe a dogfight to avoid the relegation but come back more stronger and maybe we can win silverware against Chiefs , Sarries and the giants of Europe.

Regards.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2018 19:15 by loverugby1979.

 
Re: REBUILD
bg (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 19:23
No-one has had a bite yet but I'll have a go. Thanks for your post and I suspect your English is better than most of us.. you seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge of rugby

 
Re: REBUILD
westwaleswasp (IP Logged)
06 December, 2018 19:59
Mr Edwards has a contract in place post WC, iirc.
He does not break contracts easily, if at all.

I don't think the club can have a dogfight to avoid relegation, our fiscal position is simply too dangerous to risk low crowds that come with 3 years of Challenge cup etc.

 
Re: REBUILD
loverugby1979 (IP Logged)
08 December, 2018 19:39
Quote:
westwaleswasp
Mr Edwards has a contract in place post WC, iirc.
He does not break contracts easily, if at all.

I don't think the club can have a dogfight to avoid relegation, our fiscal position is simply too dangerous to risk low crowds that come with 3 years of Challenge cup etc.

Yeah, you have a fair point in these angles. But i beleive that the crowds are very low this season....

But for me it's not the correct way to get silverware. Also , the only purpose is to give some ideas to improve in the future.

 
Re: REBUILD
InbetweenWasp (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 08:59
I think we have to see where we are at the end of the season. My gut feel is weíll be Top 4 with an away SF and thatíll be where our season ends.

A complete overhaul of coaching and playing staff isnít needed from what I can see. We need to iterate and evolve, not radically re-shape or re-invent ourselves.

However negative things may feel at the moment, weíre in a Champions Cup group with arguably the favourites for the Cup this year and a French team enjoying a renaissance who beat the favourites.

It was strange seeing a French team playing an all-court type game, with great attacking threat and Wasps seek to play tight, use the forwards and make the hard yards in close quarters.

Most of our games this season have been lost by fine margins and with individual (as opposed to systematic) errors. Cue Lima yesterday; kicks a penalty to touch dead and then trying to make up for it by smashing their 10 leaks a try. WLR in the dying moments fires a beautifully weighted pass, but has nobody there supporting him to take it, so it goes into touch.

Thereís certainly an underlying unease in the Club at the moment. Whether thatís uncertainty about SISU and yet another appeal, the financials, contract negotiations, Training facilities and/or just over-egged stories in the press we donít know. Probably a small element of there being a combination of all of the above making it feel like a much bigger issue.

As fans of the club, we can be itís harshest critics. Itís our prerogative. But sometimes we need to take a step back and realise itís not as bad as it may seem or feel.

Losses like yesterday which was an infinitely winnable game will always hurt, but today is a different day and perhaps yesterdays result will take some of the pressure off within the squad to juggle both competitions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2018 09:52 by InbetweenWasp.

 
Re: REBUILD
WaspieMatt (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 09:09
Quote:
InbetweenWasp
I think we have to see where we are at the end of the season. My gut feel is weíll be Top 4 with an away SF and thatíll be where our season ends.
A complete overhaul of coaching and playing staff isnít needed from what I can. We need to iterate and evolve, not radically re-shape or re-invest ourselves.

However negative things may feel at the moment, weíre in a Champions Cup group with arguably the favourites for the Cup this year and a French team enjoying a renaissance who beat the favourites.

It was strange seeing a French team playing an all-court type is game, with great attacking threat and Wasps seek to play tight, use the forwards and make the hard yards in close quarters.

Most of our games this season have been lost by fine margins and with individual (as opposed to systematic) errors. Cue Lima yesterday; kicks a penalty to touch dead and then trying to make up for it by smashing their 10 leaks a try. WLR in the dying moments fires a beautifully weighted pass in the dying moments, but has nobody their supporting him to take it so it goes into touch.

Thereís certainly an underlying unease in the Club at the moment. Where thatís uncertainty about SISU and yet another appeal, the financials, contract negotiations, Training facilities and/or just over-egged stories in the press we donít know. Probably a small element of there being a combination of all of the above making it feel like a much bigger issue.

As fans of the club, we can be itís harshest critics. Itís our prerogative. But sometimes we need to take a step back and realise itís not as bad as it may seem or feel.

Losses like yesterday which was an infinitely winnable game will always hurt, but today is a different day and perhaps yesterdays result will take some of the pressure off within the squad to juggle both competitions.

Spot on

 
Re: REBUILD
Sliminator (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 09:12
+1 I enjoyed the game. But it hurt to lose when we could have won.

 
Re: REBUILD
bigfecker (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 09:13
I am not a Dai fan, but changing DoR at the moment is insanity. He needs a strong No2 as frankly he is too nice to the players. He needs a sharp barker like Edwards (who isn't free).

For me, over the last 5 years Wasps have let too many very good Academy players go who now play at top level, this was under Dai's decision matrix and he is responsible. This must stop. Dai kept journeymen players in the squad blocking the up and coming. This is an expensive mistake.

The 'buying' a solution also has to stop, we didn't need a NZ 10 we needed an experienced 10 in the Premiership who has a bit of vision and would be 1/3 the price, which is why we are at the salary cap.

If players want to go, let them go, have a big clear out of unhappy souls and build for the future, accept next season will be mid third. Wasps should not be letting the young and easily turned leave in this, but the likes of Hughes can go.

Not sure what is up with Daly, but he is definitely not giving 100%, he looks like a player who is unhappy.

 
Re: REBUILD
John Tee (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 09:26
That's fine but can the club afford smaller gates?

Why were the stellar signings made in the first place..?

 
Re: REBUILD
RossM (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 09:46
The 'buying' a solution also has to stop, we didn't need a NZ 10 we needed an experienced 10 in the Premiership who has a bit of vision and would be 1/3 the price, which is why we are at the salary cap.

So much easier said than done. BTW: Lima does not impinge on the salary cap, as he is our overseas marquee player.

 
Re: REBUILD
InbetweenWasp (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 09:55
Quote:
bigfecker
The 'buying' a solution also has to stop, we didn't need a NZ 10 we needed an experienced 10 in the Premiership who has a bit of vision and would be 1/3 the price, which is why we are at the salary cap..

Curious to hear who this experienced 10 in the prem is that has a bit of vision and happy to take £200k a year is?!

 
Re: REBUILD
bg (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 10:06
Quote:
InbetweenWasp
Quote:
bigfecker
The 'buying' a solution also has to stop, we didn't need a NZ 10 we needed an experienced 10 in the Premiership who has a bit of vision and would be 1/3 the price, which is why we are at the salary cap..

Curious to hear who this experienced 10 in the prem is that has a bit of vision and happy to take £200k a year is?!

Maybe Dai should look around the Pro 14 league for a player that isn't getting much game time but knows the NH game inside out



Why not try the 'other' Wasps forum?
[onceawasp.com]

 
Re: REBUILD
InbetweenWasp (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 11:44
Quote:
bg
Quote:
InbetweenWasp
Quote:
bigfecker
The 'buying' a solution also has to stop, we didn't need a NZ 10 we needed an experienced 10 in the Premiership who has a bit of vision and would be 1/3 the price, which is why we are at the salary cap..

Curious to hear who this experienced 10 in the prem is that has a bit of vision and happy to take £200k a year is?!

Maybe Dai should look around the Pro 14 league for a player that isn't getting much game time but knows the NH game inside out

Like who?

 
Re: REBUILD
Bracken&Macken (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 16:52
Quote:
InbetweenWasp
Quote:
bigfecker
The 'buying' a solution also has to stop, we didn't need a NZ 10 we needed an experienced 10 in the Premiership who has a bit of vision and would be 1/3 the price, which is why we are at the salary cap..

Curious to hear who this experienced 10 in the prem is that has a bit of vision and happy to take £200k a year is?!

We would be no worse off than with any of Myler, Hodgson or MacGinty.

We have many issues right now but the play at 10, in both attack and defence, is killing us.

 
Re: REBUILD
westwaleswasp (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 17:03
I think it is a lot more than that.
I did think it was a mistake to replace Cipriani with Lima, massively in fact, but to say ten is the issue is too far for me, reducing a complex scenario to a simple one.

 
Re: REBUILD
Shugs (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 17:48
Myler, Hodgson and MacGinty are nowhere near the same level as Sopoaga. I really can't understand the level of angst being pushed his way. I think due to his wage and the fact he's come from the SH expectations are way over the top this early. Let's not forget Cipriani and Le Roux - similarly tasked with playmaking were awful in their first seasons.

 
Re: REBUILD
Matt82 (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 17:51
Agree on not letting good youth go. Lozowski springs to mind at the moment. Stuart is going to be the next.

 
Re: REBUILD
Shugs (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 18:13
Quote:
Matt82
Agree on not letting good youth go. Lozowski springs to mind at the moment. Stuart is going to be the next.
There's not always a choice. Normally it's just the salary cap doing what it is designed to do - equalising the talent across teams. I agree about Stuart though. I'd be wanting to keep him. If the rumours around Daly, Hughes and Le Roux are correct we'll be freeing some money up ourselves and will be knocking on the doors of others teams for their talent. The press don't seem to want to report that for whatever reason.

 
Re: REBUILD
CB Wasp (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 18:45
Back to the first post and a change of DOR. Always easy to suggest for this option when a few games go wrong but much as I like Joe Worsley, his team are mid table and got thumped by Sale yesterday. Maybe Bordeau fans are asking for Dai Young!
I am genuinely worried by Sops form and complete lack of confidence. Many say, look how long it took for WLR to settle in. Well he scored on his Ricoh debut in March 2017 and by May was tearing it up helping us get to the final in May 2017. He had 3 or 4 games where he was struggling under the high ball but even then made some great tackles and joined the line well. Sops is a bag of nerves and desperately needs a good game. He does not have the passing quality or pace of Cips so has to make up for it in other ways. I would give him a rest next week.

 
Re: REBUILD
Brumwasp (IP Logged)
09 December, 2018 18:46
Quote:
John Tee
That's fine but can the club afford smaller gates?
Why were the stellar signings made in the first place..?

Bums on seats? If that was the main reason(and I'm not saying it was), then it had the desired effect. 20k average at home in the season we reached the final. Dread to think what it will be this season, which given our financial position at the moment, is a worry.
The Ricoh is an expensive beast to run. It's great when it's two thirds full and rocking, but not far less so with 10k in attendance.

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