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David Paice
PeterS (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 15:55
With apologies to his Dad in Oz, I have to say that David's "incident" today was totally unnecessary and just the sort of reaction that has dogged him before and might make Brian Smith wonder whether he's worth retaining if we look to be a side that can achieve greatness next season.

The Gloucester player had received a yellow and was leaving the pitch when dear old Dave took it upon himself to catch him up and push him in the back. Now I don't care if he had said something to David as he passed him or even if he had pushed him (I don't think he did) or anything else. The guy was going off for 10 mins in the bin. The net result was that the player turned round and confronted David, punches were thrown by both and seconds later they were both leaving the field with red cards.

If we are serious about challenging for honours next season we cannot afford to field people who have no control over their emotions.

 
Re: David Paice
turniphead (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 16:03
I think Paice already had a yellow. Both him and Hamilton were on their way off when the 'seconds' started.



https://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pbF7MepzeHRsTMq2BN6eLFopHfqOKjzqsLaGXCmPzr_xRAd47IL-adt8h_g7atZgWlAop9nh6QPeg7MRK8evkgg/Craic%20Signature.jpg?psid=1

 
Re: David Paice
orsoncart (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 16:13
They both had yellow, words were said and it looked as though Hamilton punched Paice and caught him on his left cheekbone. Punch up and others involved. I'd be amazed if there weren't a couple of additional citings, at least one LI

Paice red probably harsh, but understandable as he and Hamilton had kicked it off

 
Re: David Paice
CippenhamIrish (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 16:29
Pretty much how i saw it, we'll see what happens. I loved Bucklands Eric Morecambe slap on Scott Lawson, thought Sir was a bit harsh in reversing the penalty.

 
Re: David Paice
SamB_LI (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 16:31
Treviranus landed an absolute snorter on someone right in front of the Gloucester dug out.

Hamilton and Paice both have previous, 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other.

 
Re: David Paice
GSB111 (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 16:42
Although Hamilton's reaction was totally unacceptable, I have to say that Paice instigated it by crossing over towards Hamilton on his way off to give him some verbal. Agree it was probably 50/50.

 
Re: David Paice
grumpy1960 (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 17:01
Quote:
SamB_LI
Treviranus landed an absolute snorter on someone right in front of the Gloucester dug out.
Hamilton and Paice both have previous, 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other.

The player " Trev'" floored was their @#$%& half Lewis who has swung a punch missed then got a straight right for his sins!
could be costing us again next year?
(Sm21)

 
Re: David Paice
Lambo (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 18:03
A dozen stitches for Paicey, apparently.

 
Re: David Paice
x_ile (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 18:26
Proper rugby, some might call it. (Sm1)

 
Re: David Paice
MarkS (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 18:30
Good to see that the boo boys are getting in early with Paicey now that Delon is gone. Did you notice the 6tries offloads and fun rugby btw, or is it just the only thing that anyone could complain about today. Hes a hooker for gods sake, if he gets gets whacked, he whacks em back. So what?

 
Re: David Paice
PeterS (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 19:10
Quote:
MarkS
Good to see that the boo boys are getting in early with Paicey now that Delon is gone. Did you notice the 6tries offloads and fun rugby btw, or is it just the only thing that anyone could complain about today. Hes a hooker for gods sake, if he gets gets whacked, he whacks em back. So what?

Mark S.appears to believe that we aren't allowed to comment on stupid play by our own players. In fact his mantra is "If he gets whacked he whacks em back. So what?"

So don't do it in front of the ref and above all don't walk after someone and whack them in plain sight of the ref, touch judges and any citing officer likely to be watching. Stupid play is stupid play whether it's done by the opposition or our own players.

 
Re: David Paice
Suckers (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 19:59
Irish v Glaws brawls are becoming like the Rocky films

Part 1 Stowers v Delve
Part 2 Paice v Hamilton

I can't wait for Part 3!

 
Re: David Paice
SamB_LI (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 20:05
Don't forget Hala'ufia on Morgan!!

 
Re: David Paice
frank2u (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 20:15
Quote:
MarkS
Good to see that the boo boys are getting in early with Paicey now that Delon is gone. Did you notice the 6tries offloads and fun rugby btw, or is it just the only thing that anyone could complain about today. Hes a hooker for gods sake, if he gets gets whacked, he whacks em back. So what?

maybe you are the one missing the point of sitting in a stadium to watch rugby Mark?

personally i was disgusted by the thug episode & it spoilt the game for me, regardless of how good it was for li.

a punch or two scuffle in the heat of the moment is one thing, two players fighting after they've been sent off is totally unacceptable to rugby & not anything i will watch!

congratulations for the rugby played & to those who stayed out of the brawl; to the rest, obscene violent punch up is not what i pay to sit & watch.

 
Re: David Paice
MarkS (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 20:43
As a christian, he should turn the other cheek eh? I say well done Paicey, Hamilton is a bully and if you dont believe me take Smithy's word for it.

 
Re: David Paice
frank2u (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 20:53
i don't care what their religion is or who hits who.

i don't take my grandchild to the local brawling pub on a saturday & i get no thrill from seeing brawls either.

just because we are in the stands, protected from the vicious assaults, i don't call it entertainment.

i stayed in the ground (just!) to respect the players who have entertained us with rugby & have now left.

 
Re: David Paice
MarkS (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 20:59
Have a look and tell me what u would have done
[url=http://[www.guardian.co.uk]]

 
Re: David Paice
Jamo (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 21:23
Back off from Paice, It's one of those things that happens in a passionate game like today. It wasn't a cynical cheap shot (e.g.a gauge) which is disgusting. It's always good to get one over Glaws anyway!

 
Re: David Paice
sweetas (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 21:39
Glos were also involved in a similar type brawl against Sale in April, a familiar theme?

 
Re: David Paice
Caimh (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 22:01
I didn't see much of the original incident, or what started it but I'd a very good view of 'round 2'. There was some verbals, the two players moved towards each other- Paicey pushed Hamilton slightly away from him - Hamilton unleashed with a vicious roundhouse - and then all hell broke lose.

I'd imagine both of them will get fairly hefty bans out of it - Hamilton a longer one of there is any justice - there'll also be a few more citings on either side I'd imagine - a lot of the Gloucester bench were involved too. On our side, Trev will get cited I'd imagine but he'll be one of several.

It's probably cost Paicey any chance of touring with England.

 
Re: David Paice
Caimh (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 22:03
Oh and a lot of credit to Faan, who went in when the fists were flying and got Paicey out of there.

 
Re: David Paice
Pixham (IP Logged)
05 May, 2012 23:33
On the subject of Trevor, it looked to me like he was backing away when a couple of Glos players started to follow and close in on him. One he thre a punc which dodn't quite connect. Simple self defence I'd say.

 
Re: David Paice
Badger 66 (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 01:30
Wondering how some folks can reach the key board to type from the back of their high horse!



LONDON IRISH ? TO THE BACK BONE !!

 
Re: David Paice
06 May, 2012 02:32
This is not in defence of David or Delon or Chris H.
All three are portrayed as bad guys (for different reasons) by the media and the morally-enriched but from me, as an average rugby follower, some of you really do make me despair.
I'll point out that at this stage I have not seen the game nor have I spoken to David.
In this (David's) latest event was it an "unnecessary reaction"? - I would suggest that in reality "that is what happens" at least in the first dust-up and not his best decision to offer further words of advice which led to the second.

Then, "........dear old Dave took it upon himself to catch up with him and push him in the back."
Did that happen? - If so, I agree. A straight red for David.
It appears though that David (definitely) said something but in another variations of the events both players moved towards each other with David (dismissively?) pushing Hamilton away. Hamilton throws a sucker-punch and then one more and then its on again.
On this point, "saying words" to another player is not an offence (OK, there are exceptions) but if that were the case Ashton specifically and all half backs in general should never play again.
But to describe the incident in total with words such as as "disgraceful" and "thuggery" is self-righteous and hypocritical.
Eye-gouging is disgraceful and and there are some one-off punchs/hits that are out-right thuggery but these are few and far between although Hamilton's "roundhouse' may fall into this category.
Hand-bags, pushing and pulling, and reacting to a punch or a similar act of violence is not thuggery.
If any of you dont like "reactive" behaviour and rough physical action please take yourself and your grandchildren away from rugby and go to juniour soccer or synchronised swimming.
There are and WILL be other unsavoury sights in rugby other than an occasional punch-up including copious amounts of claret.

One last point, if both players were initially sinbinned for throwing punches and then there was a second episode of punches then the ref had no option other than to give a second yellow which equals red.

 
Re: David Paice
bisach (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 03:38
Incident caused by Hamilton initially by his cheap push into David's back to which David reacted at the next and I think Pearson awarded a penalty to Gloucester for and the initial 2 yellows.

On the way off, David was saying something to Hamilton from behind to which Hamilton reacted by Turning round and saying something back. David pushed him on the chest and Hamilton started swinging.

Cause/Effect ... it'll be up to the decision makers. But they'll probably blame it all on Chris who was standing behind Ciamh at the time apparently and stayed out of the whole incident ... but when has that ever affected their judgement.

 
Re: David Paice
orsoncart (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 06:38
Couple of things:
- I recall Pacey getting a yellow against Quins a few years back (almost in the same place) and managing to turn it into a red while leaving the field. He didn't throw a punch on the way off yesterday, but he certainly didn't leave it alone. That's a problem
- it's all very well positioning this as a good punch-up, that's what goes on in a man's game etc etc, but it will almost certainly cost us a couple of players for the start of next season

To lighten this a bit, the only amusing/ironic thing was to see Chris H trying to act a peacemaker while all this was going off

 
Re: David Paice
Jamo (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 07:15
Orson, I laughed so much when I saw Chris H emerge from the dug- out and was praying for him not to get involved!!

 
Re: David Paice
AFF (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 07:19
Four cheap shots by Hamilton (the first two that led to his yellow and then two that resulted in the red) probably fuelled, but not excused, by the fact that Glaws had been stuffed for 40 minutes.
And most players are unlikely to stand by and watch their teammate subjected to a prolonged assault. And the Glaws bully boys joined in presumably as they, too, were a little displeased at being stuffed for 40 minutes etc.
Paice is not one to stand still and just take take it. Neither is he one for cheap shots. (Unlike one of the girls who appears to have hero status on here.)
As far as Trev is concerned, watch the clip on YouTube and you will see that he was trying to back away from two eejit, frothing-at-the-mouth Gloucester players and, presumably, decided that enough was enough.
And Paice gets criticised on here?

 
Re: David Paice
SamB_LI (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 07:26
Agree that big respect to Faan is necessary for breaking it up, but then, would you hit him?

Bob also tried to break it all up, but his method of doing do was perhaps slightly more...robust...

 
Re: David Paice
Sam_R43 (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 07:35
Just watched it on youtube, if Pearson has dealt with it properly we wouldn't have had a second fight. Hamilton had already punched David twice, if you punch someone you deserve a red card. But instead, seconds after the fight breaks up he gives them both a yellow card and send them off together without taking time to talk to the captains or the players.

David grabs Hamilton, which was stupid, but then Hamilton's two punches to David's face are completely disgraceful and shows what a thug he is. And then Trev unleashes a few punches of his own (another red card & citing but no one saw it).

Pearson's fault as much as Hamilton's, if he got the decision right first time and took his time, man management and all that we wouldn't have had a second fight and another few players cited. Hope he gets a right ticking off for it.

 
Re: David Paice
JamesC (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 07:37
wot ascotintheantipodes said

does anyone have a link to the youtube clip ?

 
Re: David Paice
Liamk (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 07:39
Dave said that he said to hamilton you started it all by kneeing him (dave) in the back and the hamilton went off again!hence the red cards

 
Re: David Paice
AFF (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 07:41
I don't know how to do hand link things.
Go to www.Youtube.co uk, then search 'David Paice' and the fouth or fith item is helpfully posted by a Quins fand and has the heading "Big Fight at London Irish" or some such.

 
Re: David Paice
Sam_R43 (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 07:59

">Here
is the fight on youtube

 
Re: David Paice
SamB_LI (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 08:00
Shouldn't be a problem though, any bans handed out will be served before the season starts a la Callum Clark. Or will they...

 
Re: David Paice
SamB_LI (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 08:35
'fraid Trev's in for some time on the sidelines after that. He lost it.

 
Re: David Paice
Lazyboy346 (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 08:56
Trev will probably get some punishment, but Gloucester have a few who deserve the same.

Cox tried to punch the hydrologist who tried to stop the intiial fight. Harden punched Tagi then was punched by Trev twice havign missed his own swing at Trev. Lewis tried to hit Trev but missed then fell over Harden.

Thats from one view live and just the obvious ones. Everybody joined in, so I'm expecting both clubs to take a fine and Paice and Hamilton will miss the summer tours.

 
Re: David Paice
Clontarf (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 09:08
I blame Paul Ackford
In this morning's Torygraph he says in his review of the season
"London Irish and Gloucester are examples of that, clubs which are currently punching well below their weight."

 
Re: David Paice
RT (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 09:08
Trev's had some boxing training; or else it's in the blood. He can start for my team anytime he wants to...Think I'll call him 'Sir'!

 
Re: David Paice
millhillexile (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 09:40
Did anyone notice David shake hands with Hamilton after the game. That is why Rugbys great. Occasionally something like this happens and we move on.But I do understand why some people get upset by it,my wife included, but then again she never played and I did. I think the Glos boys were just annoyed with with the way LI were playing and they had no answer.
Now the Delve assault on Stowers did leave a bad taste because that was a dirty attack when George wasnt looking.
I just hope this doesnt take away from how well David has played this season.

 
Re: David Paice
paulm1953 (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 09:43
Quote:
PeterS
Quote:
MarkS
Good to see that the boo boys are getting in early with Paicey now that Delon is gone. Did you notice the 6tries offloads and fun rugby btw, or is it just the only thing that anyone could complain about today. Hes a hooker for gods sake, if he gets gets whacked, he whacks em back. So what?

Mark S.appears to believe that we aren't allowed to comment on stupid play by our own players. In fact his mantra is "If he gets whacked he whacks em back. So what?"

So don't do it in front of the ref and above all don't walk after someone and whack them in plain sight of the ref, touch judges and any citing officer likely to be watching. Stupid play is stupid play whether it's done by the opposition or our own players.

I agree with PeterS. This incident last a few seconds. Let's focus on the real subject: a fantastic performance from London Irish. Six tries - can't wait until next season.



Come on you Irish

Paul

 
Re: David Paice
frank2u (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 09:54
since people have alluded to me personally & my opinion, i will respond once more.
1. i never mentioned any blame for any individual
2. i am quite aware of how to handle violent aggressors
3. i will make my own mind up as to whether i attend a match again, thank you not to advise me on this
4. you can do exactly what you please

 
Re: David Paice
hooray Henley (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 11:04
For goodness sake lads. I reckon a maximum of about 10 punches were thrown in total in that whole melee.

Rugby is a game in which aggression is a key part. If occasionally the blood gets a bit high and and it all starts getting tasty then just learn to live with it.

As someone said earlier. This was honest big blokes on their feet able to defend themselves and ready to take a few lumps for their troubles.

The real nasty stuff is the cowards gouging or biting a player trapped in a ruck. Trouble is - you can't see that, but when there is stand up fight it looks spectacular.

The bit I liked was when Bob went in as peacemaker in the first bit he became surrounded by about 7 faarest retards who all wanted a piece of him but not one of them had the nuts to actually clump him.

 
Re: David Paice
CippenhamIrish (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 11:15
Spot on HH, watch Cox hiding behind his gang and mouthing off. Well done Bob.

 
Re: David Paice
N17 (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 13:53
With the benefit of the video , it appears the original poster had the facts wrong and perhaps an apology is in order..

It appears :

1. In open play JH pushes DP in the back and DP knocked over
2. Next tackle area DP illegaly holds onto JH
3. JH lands 1 or 2 punches to head of DP for holding him
4. General dust up - Ref gives both DP and JH yellow. (Ref needs to justify why it was not red for JH who totally overacted to being held).

5. Walking off the pitch JH moves towards DP (see pitch line) in the same way if a drunk crosses the road towards you DP raises arm to JH chest to keep the space between them and immediately JH lands two fist punches to the face of DP.

6 2nd general dust up.

Whatever else went on (including a technical tip tackle on BBC at 2 above) JH started the illegal play and landed at least 4 punches to DP's head area in two incidents, total over reaction and disproportionate by JH.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2012 16:12 by N17.

 
Re: David Paice
MarkS (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 14:20
PeterS, my objection was not what you saw or like at a rugby match. Thats your choice. It was the suggestion that BrianS should look at whether or not Paicey should be retained. Having looked at it again and again, i think that David is guilty of words and Hamilton is a vicious thug. So if you think paicey should be kicked out for saying something naughty even swearing at a bloke who is a foot taller than him and had just hit him twice in the face, then i suggest golf is your game not rugby. I think David shouldnt even have been yellow carded in the first place! I also think he is a bloody good hooker and should be in the Eng mix just for the record

 
Re: David Paice
Caimh (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 14:29
More than anything, I'm appalled that in a general dust-up, a member of the Royal family walked away without getting a slap. I have already approached management about giving a talk on the potato famine as part of the pre-season.(Sm137)

 
Re: David Paice
Jamo (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 14:48
Quote:
hooray Henley
For goodness sake lads. I reckon a maximum of about 10 punches were thrown in total in that whole melee.
Rugby is a game in which aggression is a key part. If occasionally the blood gets a bit high and and it all starts getting tasty then just learn to live with it.

As someone said earlier. This was honest big blokes on their feet able to defend themselves and ready to take a few lumps for their troubles.

The real nasty stuff is the cowards gouging or biting a player trapped in a ruck. Trouble is - you can't see that, but when there is stand up fight it looks spectacular.

The bit I liked was when Bob went in as peacemaker in the first bit he became surrounded by about 7 faarest retards who all wanted a piece of him but not one of them had the nuts to actually clump him.

Bang on and well said. World of difference between the cowardly assaults/ gouging and yesterday. Wasn't it nice to stuff it up the dwellers from the shallow end of the genetic pool!? (Sm100)

 
Re: David Paice
hooray Henley (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 15:00
ooooooh! I wouldn't go that far Jamo. bit worried about the offspring(Sm2)

 
Re: David Paice
SamB_LI (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 15:11
Caimh,

I've never been so offended. If ever there were a chance to add another hairpin bend to Mike Tindall's nose, it was yesterday and yet no one did. What is London Irish coming to?!

 
Re: David Paice
Jamo (IP Logged)
06 May, 2012 15:13
Quote:
hooray Henley
ooooooh! I wouldn't go that far Jamo. bit worried about the offspring(Sm2)

Good point. I live in west Oxfordshire and the last thing that we want is Deliverance creeping this way!!!

 
Re: David Paice
PeterS (IP Logged)
07 May, 2012 16:30
Mark S, I think you should take a look at the latter stages of the "Fight" thread. Various posters whose opinion I respect, having seen the video now tend to see the events that I thought I saw on the day.

I didn't recommend Toby/Brian to get shot of David. I said that his part in the events needed to be looked at when deciding who to retain or otherwise.

This isn't a case of someone playing for his Old Boys side or Reading or Henley RUFC. We are talking about a professional sport where losing players to red cards can affect whether you win the League or get relegated so discipline is vital.

I don't want to argue with you. You have the right to your opinion as much as I do but no, I won't be making any apologies for what I posted. Believe it or not I rate David very highly and think he's crucial to our future success. However I also believe that Brian and Toby won't be too happy with his role in the incident

 
Re: David Paice
MadMonk (IP Logged)
07 May, 2012 16:42
Any good coach or captain will give a pre-match team talk that in any other situation would be incitement. These guys are pumped, they care passionately about their club and about winning. Any who do not have no right to be on the field of play.

Add to that the objective of the game: I have in my hand an ovoid object and nobody but nobody is going to stop me placing it on the ground over that line.

What I find most remarkable is not the indiscipline, but the discipline. Respect for the ref, and for players from both sides is so pervasive that we are shocked when it is not there.

Not condoning but asking for passion commitment AND restraint is a big ask.

 
Re: David Paice
NigelN (IP Logged)
07 May, 2012 17:06
Agree with MM - rugby is a game of controlled violence. It is a tribute to the players that it rarely goes beyond the set boundaries. The occasional outbreak of handbags is understandable - it's deliberate tripping, gouging and similar activities people should be condemning.

 
Re: David Paice
MarkS (IP Logged)
07 May, 2012 17:45
PeterS, i would just like to know what you would have expected Paicey to do in that situation. Back off? No arguments needed or wanted?

 
Re: David Paice
PeterS (IP Logged)
07 May, 2012 18:45
Once the ref had indicated that they were both off for 10 minutes I would imagine that a coach/DOR would want some restraint shown. Sit out your 10 and then get back on the field.

Taking it further (ie ramping up an already explosive situation) would not be seen as in the best interest of the team.

He could have come off, cooled down for 10 mins and then helped his team mates win the game. Instead he chose to prolong the physicals and, in doing so. risked the final outcome going the wrong way.

I'm well aware that what I've said is asking a lot in the heat of the moment but that's it isn't it? That's what your management are requiring you to do.

 
Re: David Paice
Foggy-Balla (IP Logged)
07 May, 2012 18:49
Quote:
PeterS
He could have come off, cooled down for 10 mins and then helped his team mates win the game. Instead he chose to prolong the physicals and, in doing so. risked the final outcome going the wrong way.

Naaah. We were what, 34-11 ahead? We'd never have lost with a first-half lead like that.

Anyway, I refer you to chapter 14 of one M Johnson's Autobiography, "People I Gave A Slap & Why They Deserved It" (Sm14)



Faugh-a-Ballagh!

"Our prayer is 'God save Ireland' and pour blessings on her name!"

Vestigia Nulla Retrorsum


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