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That was poor...
Saz's old man (IP Logged)
25 February, 2017 21:47
Is it just me or have we got worse as the season has progressed???
Not much hope of holding our own should we are it next year...

 
Re: That was poor...
Exile_Dave (IP Logged)
25 February, 2017 22:03
The forwards are carrying the team. I haven't seen much cohesion from 11,12,13,14 & 15, they don't seem to have any ideas to change the game. The momentum seems to stop and non of them think outside the box and the opposition can read our game easily.



I'd rather be a Paddy than a Quin!!

Currently sponsoring Greig Tonks for season 16/17.

 
Re: That was poor...
Despriarno (IP Logged)
25 February, 2017 22:17
The forwards would be OK in the premiership

But the backs, on current performance, are not up to it.

Centres in particular

 
Re: That was poor...
Finno (IP Logged)
25 February, 2017 22:29
Quote:
Despriarno
The forwards would be OK in the premiership
But the backs, on current performance, are not up to it.

Centres in particular

Agree 100% and that's not to say that Williams is not a star of the future, he is, but he's just that.

We need to recruit a couple of 'Hairy Arsed' experienced,big, centres for next season, should we go up!!

 
Re: That was poor...
Hugo.LI (IP Logged)
25 February, 2017 22:45
At times this season our backs have looked up to it but since Christmas they have been dreadful. We'll see how they do once they've got a run of games under their belt.

I don't think we need wholesale changes, but a high quality 13 is just what we need ( perhaps venter can attract a big South African over ) on paper we should have a good backs line so maybe we need to start looking at the coaching...

 
Re: That was poor...
dooj106 (IP Logged)
25 February, 2017 23:03
Is it any wonder that we lack cohesion when we get 3 weeks off every 2 games!!! On top of that it was a miserable day weather wise so no wonder it was a forward dominant game with little opportunity for the backs.

Let's say we get a couple of 'Hairy Arsed' big centres and they just truck it up every time because that's what they do best, I am sure people will moan that we are too predictable and one dimensional because I get the impression that nothing Irish do is ever good enough.

The fact is we have played 15 and won 15 in the league (16 from 16 if you include Welsh) and have got bonus points in 12 of those game (13 if include Welsh). The championship is a competitive league and as well as young players in the squad playing we also have a young coaching setup learning their trade as well.

We are by no means the finished product by IMHO things are not as bad as is being made out

 
Re: That was poor...
Shawshank (IP Logged)
25 February, 2017 23:38
The backs play is very worrying. Every team that has played us at the Madstad looks to have better back play than us.

We generally look like 7 individuals who have never played with each other before, and it's been like since the start of the season with no discernible improvement.

There's zero running off the ball, not much pace, the passing is still erratic, and there's very little guile.

Who is backs coach?

 
Re: That was poor...
Hugo.LI (IP Logged)
25 February, 2017 23:54
Thinks it's a mix of dodge and laidlaw. I agree with soon however as the first team have only played 3 times since the new year and take in the fact of the rotation policy, some players haven't even played all of those games.

We need to now pick our best backs line and stick with it.

Mckibbin
Marshall
Tiks
Williams
Mulchrone
Lewington
Bell

That's our strongest back line imho and that's should now be playing week in week out. ( when Tommy is back of course) for now I wouldn't mind seeing ransom at 15 to offer some extra spark

 
Re: That was poor...
Steelman (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 07:25
Quote:
Hugo.LI
Thinks it's a mix of dodge and laidlaw. I agree with soon however as the first team have only played 3 times since the new year and take in the fact of the rotation policy, some players haven't even played all of those games.
We need to now pick our best backs line and stick with it.

Mckibbin
Marshall
Tiks
Williams
Mulchrone
Lewington
Bell


That's our strongest back line imho and that's should now be playing week in week out. ( when Tommy is back of course) for now I wouldn't mind seeing ransom at 15 to offer some extra spark

And where sir,is leading try scorer, after Ben Franks now , SCOTT STEELE ?!

 
Re: That was poor...
Ozzy3213 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 07:56
I genuinely have no idea what some people want or expect.

We are top of the league with a 100% record with a whole bundle of try bonus points. We are the highest points and try scorers and have the best defensive record in the league. I keep hearing that other teams attacking play is better than ours but that's simply not borne out by any meaningful, measurable statistic.

Rugby is about winning, and perhaps, just perhaps, the coaches are focusing on the areas we need to be good at to win, and not the fancy flash stuff, which in the opinion of some on here every other team is better than us at, despite the fact we are top of the pile.

 
Re: That was poor...
old hillbilly (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 08:08
Problem is that we do not have a premiership standard 9/10 in the squad. Lots of good back up but not a pair who can control big games, keep us in the right part of the pitch and play others into space and opportunity. For all his strengths, Marshall is a 15 and performed brilliantly for the Canes in that position last year but he is not a first choice 10. We also need an 80% + kicker who gets in the team on merit rather than on just his kicking ability. We have some great young talent like Williams, Lewington and Cokanasiga but if the half backs are not good enough to utilise their talents then they will wither, as they have been doing.

 
Re: That was poor...
Derby Irish Fan (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 08:50
I have been trying to make sense of some of the posts, seems if taken from whats been said we have a@#$%&back line, forwards which are predictable and rubbish kickers, ohh 9/10 dont have a clue. I was at the game yesterday and listened to a lot of comments and a lot were saying that its been no consistency in games with big breaks between then. Yes i saw a lot of missed tackles and dropped ball so not a lot of fluidity.
I think the ones who will be most upset with the display will be the players who know they can do a lot better and will make sure (hopefully) the YC feel their disappointment.
Where we have come from after last season I think most of us have found this league a lot tougher but it shows we cannot expect them all to roll over for us.
I will be at YC next sunday and expect a hard game for us but a winning game so keep the faith.

 
Re: That was poor...
Shawshank (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 09:27
Yesterday 75% of our tries came from a rolling maul.

A meaningful and measurable statistic.

And it's generally no different week in week out.

 
Re: That was poor...
exileray (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 09:45
Here it is in plain English, we have no spark at all................

 
Re: That was poor...
Hugo.LI (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 09:56
Quote:
old hillbilly
Problem is that we do not have a premiership standard 9/10 in the squad. Lots of good back up but not a pair who can control big games, keep us in the right part of the pitch and play others into space and opportunity. For all his strengths, Marshall is a 15 and performed brilliantly for the Canes in that position last year but he is not a first choice 10. We also need an 80% + kicker who gets in the team on merit rather than on just his kicking ability. We have some great young talent like Williams, Lewington and Cokanasiga but if the half backs are not good enough to utilise their talents then they will wither, as they have been doing.

Is bell not that 80% kicker? Also disagree about the half backs as Marshall has been our best back this season and Steele and mckibbin have been doing well too.

 
Re: That was poor...
orsoncart (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 10:13
Quote:
Ozzy3213
I genuinely have no idea what some people want or expect.
We are top of the league with a 100% record with a whole bundle of try bonus points. We are the highest points and try scorers and have the best defensive record in the league. I keep hearing that other teams attacking play is better than ours but that's simply not borne out by any meaningful, measurable statistic.

Rugby is about winning, and perhaps, just perhaps, the coaches are focusing on the areas we need to be good at to win, and not the fancy flash stuff, which in the opinion of some on here every other team is better than us at, despite the fact we are top of the pile.

Absolutely fair comment, but I would argue that if we come across a team capable of stopping the rolling maul, which we will if we reach the Premiership, there doesn't seem to be a threat from the backs as an alternative.

 
Re: That was poor...
LI Bohemian (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 10:19
The only statistic that I really care about, to be fair is 15 wins, 12 try bonus points, you can keep your flairs (or bootcuts) the job is all about winning and getting premotion. It took Exeter 5 years to get a back line of any flair and cohesion together (and yes that's in the premiership) i remember the first time I saw Exeter play us at the Madstad when they were first promoted, they had a good set piece but were workman like in the backs, we won but you could see they were competitive and moving in the right direction. I think the reason we do not have premiership half backs is............wait for it .........we are in the Championship! These fellows are developed and cultivated, as is a team, and not in just over half a season.

I do wish we could talk more about these mystical "ball carriers" "game controlling half backs" "big line breaking centres" that should be on our shopping list, it's way more entertaining.



Bohemiansingles@yahoo.com
631-563-9892

 
Re: That was poor...
Finno (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 10:20
I think the issue that most dissenters have, is that they are looking to compare the performances as if they were against Premiership opposition, which we all hope will happen next season.

Yes, our squad and performances are good enough to beat everyone in this league as the stats show,

BUT, are they good enough to hold their own with the big boys next season? I have my doubts.

I would have thought that, approaching March, under the new leadership, we would have developed a team that is clinically putting sides away in this league, rather than 'huffing and puffing' past them, like yesterday. In my view, we need to be the former at this stage of the season, if we're to have any hope next season in the Premiership. Even the recent Notts game we flattered to deceive, despite the scoreline.

 
Re: That was poor...
olw131 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 10:22
I don't think half backs are really the problem anymore TBH. Steele's been brilliant this season and Marshall is the most capable 10 we've had at the club for ages, I just think him and the backs as a whole are suffering because of the absolute lack of ideas that they seem to possess.

Measurable statistics really aren't everything, if your backs attack the line and play with at least some kind of flair and fluidity then it's going to disorganise the opposition's defence, simple as. We can't rely on just the maul in the Premiership!

 
Re: That was poor...
TAFKA hH (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 10:35
Can't get to many games these days so can't really comment on performances, but I do know that we were shite last year and Brendan Venter said that we had to tear the whole thing apart and learn to crawl then walk and hopefully eventually we would be able to run.

For me that means...

Get a competitive pack... Solid set piece and dominate the field
Get 15 people on the pitch who work damned hard and tackle anything that moves, then put them into a smart defensive system
Have a 9 and 10 who get you good field position
Have a 80% plus kicker

That is crawling and beginning to put the building blocks in place to Walk. That is where we seem to be at the moment and really to expect anything more so soon after being so awful is naive.

I want us to get back in the premiership with a good pack, a good defence and a good kicker. Consolidate on that then perhaps bolt on all the flashing feet girly stuff a bit later.

 
Re: That was poor...
harristocratt (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 11:46
Of course the forwards are doing well in the champioship.
I suspect that Ben Franks has more caps than the whole of the other teams in the league put togeter.
I said that we would win every league game and the play offs this season and I still believe that and of course that is important in the short term. We have to get promoted.
Results are good but performances largely are not.
It is not only players we need it is a premiership standard coaching team.
Onwards and upwards.

 
Re: That was poor...
paulm1953 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 11:58
I would like to see the END OF ROTATION[u][/u] and pick a team/ squad that can take us through to the end of the season. Steele should be our number 1 scrum half IMHO. I can't see the point in playing Darren Allison (although he had a good game) as he is off to London Irish West at the end of the season. Nick Kennedy should fine full backs who constantly kick away possession (this has been the main reason for points from the opposition).

I would like to be entertained. I took my calculator to yesterday's game after us winning the away game by a margin of 50 points. I ended up not having to use the calculator as the game plan seemed to be score 4 tries and see out the game.



Come on you Irish

Paul

 
Re: That was poor...
tonyh50 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 12:18
No complaints that we are unbeaten and comfortably heading for pole position in the play offs - but agree that it is our forward play that has been our prime force this season. Our back play has been erratic to say the least, little cohesion or imagination and often the opposition backs have proved superior. BUT without a dedicated backs coach fear it is going to continue. Dodge and Kennedy have proved themselves this season but neither of them is a valid backs specialist (and Venter certainly isn't). I just worry that in our he play-offs sides like YC & Doncaster will sus out our forward play and our backs will not have the capability to compensate. If we do get back up our forwards might be able to hold their own in the top flight but on the showing so far this season our backs definitely won't.

 
Re: That was poor...
waltham (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 22:15
IMO rotation makes sense and will certainly be needed of we do go back up next season: we can't rely on "one" squad week on week and need depth and consistency. If I remember rightly, a few years ago we all criticised Sarries "boring" play....How many of us would be very happy to have an LI squad with that type of boring success..and squad depth where (pretty much) players can be dropped-in and almost instinctively know what to do.
This is a new world for us. We are not (yet) a club loaded with high-flying current international standard players (although IMO we do have some).
I don't suppose anyone would disagree that we would need a few new "class" players next season, yes, probably backs...they'll be expensive of course and probably not willing to commit until they are 100% sure that we will be in the Prem next year.
rant over...(Sm150)

 
Re: That was poor...
Henry Ford (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 08:38
The rotation policy is spot on for me. There is only one objective this year and that is promotion. We could if we wish protect our players for the playoffs now even more, we are there. Tommy Bell is the only front line player that needs to come back and he should be sound for the playoffs. One fear I had was getting to the playoffs without a Franks, Marshall, Coman, Cowan, McKibbin, Steele, De Chaves, Robson, Trev (especially Trev), Paice, Lewington, Williams etc etc. The rotation policy has been a big factor in this being achieved. Only Palf and Smallbone missing and that is not bad, to date of course. Still worry a bit about tighthead cover for Ben but even then we brought Lovejoy in which made perfect sense.

The playoffs are what it is all about, we could put out a good team in the B&I and win a meaningless competition playing good rugby, but who wants to remember that from this year? Bring the kids along and well done to them for getting so far in the competition.

Any BV team might not be the best to watch in terms of entertainment, but he does not give a hoot, he wants results and that is why he is here I would presume. It would not be a shock if they had a few surprises up their sleeves for the playoffs, because at the end of the day, that is all that counts this year.

I want only one memory from this year and that is that we went straight back up !

 
Re: That was poor...
waltham (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 16:14
Quote:
Henry Ford
The rotation policy is spot on for me. There is only one objective this year and that is promotion. We could if we wish protect our players for the playoffs now even more, we are there. Tommy Bell is the only front line player that needs to come back and he should be sound for the playoffs. One fear I had was getting to the playoffs without a Franks, Marshall, Coman, Cowan, McKibbin, Steele, De Chaves, Robson, Trev (especially Trev), Paice, Lewington, Williams etc etc. The rotation policy has been a big factor in this being achieved. Only Palf and Smallbone missing and that is not bad, to date of course. Still worry a bit about tighthead cover for Ben but even then we brought Lovejoy in which made perfect sense.
The playoffs are what it is all about, we could put out a good team in the B&I and win a meaningless competition playing good rugby, but who wants to remember that from this year? Bring the kids along and well done to them for getting so far in the competition.

Any BV team might not be the best to watch in terms of entertainment, but he does not give a hoot, he wants results and that is why he is here I would presume. It would not be a shock if they had a few surprises up their sleeves for the playoffs, because at the end of the day, that is all that counts this year.

I want only one memory from this year and that is that we went straight back up !

(Sm152)

 
Re: That was poor...
jekyll (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 20:43
Quote:
tonyh50
No complaints that we are unbeaten and comfortably heading for pole position in the play offs - but agree that it is our forward play that has been our prime force this season. Our back play has been erratic to say the least, little cohesion or imagination and often the opposition backs have proved superior. BUT without a dedicated backs coach fear it is going to continue. Dodge and Kennedy have proved themselves this season but neither of them is a valid backs specialist (and Venter certainly isn't). I just worry that in our he play-offs sides like YC & Doncaster will sus out our forward play and our backs will not have the capability to compensate. If we do get back up our forwards might be able to hold their own in the top flight but on the showing so far this season our backs definitely won't.
Totally agree Marshall needs to put a little more variation to his game, he has become a distibutor whereas at Scottish away he made line breaks and mixed things up. McKibben is still our best 9 as his speed and anticipation to the next breakdown keeps a fast tempo, Steele is alright but lacks the anticipation hopefully that will come with experience.
Too much backs passing is straight to the man making us static, lets try and put the ball in front of the next player and become fluid.


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