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Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
no17 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 18:12
How disappointing that he did not have the good grace to acknowledge clever stuff by the lovely London Irish coaches for the Italian side rather than sulking that it was not rugby. A measure of the man as were his regrettable comments in relation to Sexton's family in relation to his injury problems. No denying he is a very good coach, particularly after his achievements with Japan, but just ill-mannered in contrast with Conor's performance in the post-match interviews.

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
M51 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 19:21
I just put his comments down to Aussie banter, often not well thought out. I did think Italy gave it a good crack but were always fearful of a heavy defeat. Good luck to them.

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
Royalsfan (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 19:27
His opening comments were 'congratulations to Italy, strategically they were smart today'.

But of course in certain quarters there is an agenda so people pick out words and use them selectively.

You can understand why Italy did what they did, and it was effective for a bit but ultimately failed.

Heaven help the sport if it becomes the go to way for teams to play....

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
exile99 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 19:45
I suspect the laws may get slightly recalibrated after today. The Azzuros did well and I imagine there were a few diagrams drawn in crayon at half time to explain things to Dylan and the rest of the team.
Ultimately the better team won, but I'm mightily impressed with the Italian tactics. I'm just a little disappointed that the good doctor didn't share this strategy with our lads first.
Having said that, I don't think many of the Championship officials would have realised that what the boys in blue were doing today was actually legal.

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
Shropshire Hugh (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 20:13
Quote:
Royalsfan
His opening comments were 'congratulations to Italy, strategically they were smart today'.
But of course in certain quarters there is an agenda so people pick out words and use them selectively.

You can understand why Italy did what they did, and it was effective for a bit but ultimately failed.

Heaven help the sport if it becomes the go to way for teams to play....

I would suggest it ultimately succeeded. They didn't get stuffed by 80 points. Good job



Live in West Wales, work in England, supporting Scotland and London Irish

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
Shawshank (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 20:20
Fast Eddie is always looking to make himself the story in order to distract unwamted attention from his players.

So the main headlines tomorrow will be about whether Italy's tactics were ethical, rather than how badly England coped with them...

The main problem with the tactic is that it will encourage defending teams to put no-one into the ruck and then their 'lazy runners' will be 100% onside. Not a good spectacle for anyone.

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
LI Bohemian (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 20:47
Quote:
Shropshire Hugh
Quote:
Royalsfan
His opening comments were 'congratulations to Italy, strategically they were smart today'.
But of course in certain quarters there is an agenda so people pick out words and use them selectively.

You can understand why Italy did what they did, and it was effective for a bit but ultimately failed.

Heaven help the sport if it becomes the go to way for teams to play....

I would suggest it ultimately succeeded. They didn't get stuffed by 80 points. Good job

So success was a 20 points loss and not an 80 point loss
Does that make a 40 point loss a draw?



Bohemiansingles@yahoo.com
631-563-9892

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
Despriarno (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 20:56
Quote:
Shawshank
The main problem with the tactic is that it will encourage defending teams to put no-one into the ruck and then their 'lazy runners' will be 100% onside. Not a good spectacle for anyone.

I agree that this is risk to rugby as we know it.
How long before we see teams try it against us?

100% legal but negative and could ruin the game

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
Lambo (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 21:08
It may be my poor memory, but I'm sure I recall a time a few seasons ago when Irish didn't compete at some line outs with very similar effect to what Italy did today in the 'rucks'. The oppo catcher came down with the ball and looked a little bewildered at the lack of attention. Sadly for us the ref was a little bewildered by it all too and it didn't work for us. Clarification welcomed.

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
waltham (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 21:58
Quote:
Lambo
It may be my poor memory, but I'm sure I recall a time a few seasons ago when Irish didn't compete at some line outs with very similar effect to what Italy did today in the 'rucks'. The oppo catcher came down with the ball and looked a little bewildered at the lack of attention. Sadly for us the ref was a little bewildered by it all too and it didn't work for us. Clarification welcomed.

Absolutely right....and also "tactical" injuries to front row players resulting in uncontested scrums....

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
DrV'sHairyCraic (IP Logged)
26 February, 2017 22:46
That was nothing new. A few seasons back, Sale did it a lot.

And we did too to a lesser extent. Italy s mistake was to have their players flapping like a dimmented wasp.

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
HMRH (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 07:20
Clever but nothing more than a frustration tactic which worked very well. England should have worked it out more quickly

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
MattM (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 08:10
Quote:
DrV'sHairyCraic
Italy s mistake was to have their players flapping like a dimmented wasp.

All I can picture now is a confused Danny Cipriani flapping his arms in frustration...

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
Nick4219 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 08:58
If ever there was an admission by a coach that his team are not good enough to compete then Conor O Shea effectively did that with his tactics yesterday.

Dress it up as clever or whatever you like but ultimately it didn't work and made Italy and rugby look very negative. Supporters and fans want to see competitive, attacking and action packed rugby not some sort of netball around the breakdown.

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
fatlad76 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 09:06
I agree that it is not rugby for the purists but as a tactic you have to take your hat of to the "London Irish" coaching team! Italy were not going to win playing "proper" rugby but what made the contest fascinating was the inability of England to adapt. They had a game plan which was frustrated and showed 40 minutes of a lack of ability to react or change.
The solution should have been straight away pick and go, pick and go ... If they had done that Italy would have been the team that would have had to change or England would have gained yard after yard and amassed a cricket score.
Jones's comments were just to deflect on his teams inability to react quickly.
It made me laugh all the way through the first half not stand back and say it was a travesty. Could they employ the tactic again and get away with it? No, but for a one off it was priceless!

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
Strom (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 09:14
(Sm22)

Quote:
Romain Poite
I'm not a coach I am a referee

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
Griff (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 10:02
Fair play to Conor, Brendan and the Italians for having a crack at this - it's a valid tactic especially when you're up against a team very good at securing possession and using each ruck as a set-up for a set of moves. It totally negated England's attack for the first half and that is to Italy's credit and should be a cause for worry in the England camp.

The thing is, it should work for a few phases at which point the England attack should've simply started picking-up and driving forward. The point is that the nearest Italian defender has to be 2 metres from the tackle so it's almost a guaranteed 2m gain, every tackle. A bit of nous from the England team and that could have been a cricket score. I suspect they've learned a lot from this and might end-up thanking the Italians for the lesson.

For the sport of rugby it's highlighted a bit of variety in defence. Used sparingly it could make a more interesting spectacle.

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
no17 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 10:14
Spot on Griff, all England had to do was pick and drive. It was surprising that it seemed to take them so long to work that out. I still think that Jones' reaction was verging on hysterical. Rugby is more than capable of dealing with the odd bit of innovation .

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
echidna (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 13:33
For Eddie Jones to have so quickly become a "whinging Pom" is remarkable. He really does need to get over himself.

The Laws in this area have barely changed in decades. As others have pointed out, this has been known and exploited (as has the similar "lack of engagement" tactic at mauls, particularly at lines out) by "cute" tacticians for years. If Jones and his dimwit charges are unaware of the Laws of the game they are paid large sums of money to participate in that is not a reason to change these Laws.

(Sm103)

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
Alan_K (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 13:40
The pompous outrage of the ignorant in the comments section on the BBC website is hilarious.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/02/2017 13:56 by Alan_K.

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
waltham (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 16:10
In today's Times, Ben Ryan claims to have been one of (or maybe the first) to use this device in 1981 against Fiji 7's ..and won having (of course) briefed the ref in advance that they would be doing this. According to the same article the tactic has been widely used in Super Rugby as well.

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
Margin_Walker (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 16:20
Quote:
waltham
In today's Times, Ben Ryan claims to have been one of (or maybe the first) to use this device in 1981 against Fiji 7's ..and won having (of course) briefed the ref in advance that they would be doing this. According to the same article the tactic has been widely used in Super Rugby as well.

Ben Ryan must have been a very talented 10 year old...

Has been used by the Chiefs in SR, but only sporadically. Never every phase like here

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
waltham (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 21:43
Quote:
Margin_Walker
Quote:
waltham
In today's Times, Ben Ryan claims to have been one of (or maybe the first) to use this device in 1981 against Fiji 7's ..and won having (of course) briefed the ref in advance that they would be doing this. According to the same article the tactic has been widely used in Super Rugby as well.

Ben Ryan must have been a very talented 10 year old...

Has been used by the Chiefs in SR, but only sporadically. Never every phase like here

sorry....2012.
(Sm42)

 
Re: Eddie Jones - Bad Winner
Steve Sydney (IP Logged)
27 February, 2017 22:46
Rather disappointing to watch but a clever ploy to counter the stronger breakdown team, but i'm fairly sure that by now every team in the land would have a plan for when they might come up against it in the future.

Pick up the ball and straight forward ....


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