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Very depressed...
Shawshank (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 17:17
For those of you not at the game today you would have thought we had done well to run Bath so close.

However, the truth is this was a game that we really did everything possible to throw away.

Yes, Freddie Burns was excellent. But he, an excellent 12 and a decent scrum was all Bath had to offer. But it proved to be enough.

Appalling goal kicking, some dreadful missed touches from penalties, knock-ons galore, daft penalties conceded, you name it, we did it. Time and time again.

It's so predictable, I just knew at the end that we would somehow make an almighty horlicks of that last play on their goal-line, which we did.

We are not getting any real 'value' out of our allegedly 'marquee' players such as Marshall and PdP, who were both dreadfully weak today.

Grrrrrrr......

 
Re: Very depressed...
Strom (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 17:24
I thought that was much better than the Edinburgh game. Yes we did conspire to lose.

Our defence was pretty good apart from that initial Bath try. Kicking was poor, obviously. Straight to the Barf #6 at the restart. No variation. Madness.

Thought Marshall was OK.

TBH I think I'm more concerned about the two #9s going off injured. The next Bath match is much more significant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2017 17:38 by Strom.

 
Re: Very depressed...
paulm1953 (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 17:54
Positives

Great pint of Good Old Boy
4 tries and LBP
Good defence after the first try

Negatives

What does the kicking and the scrum coaches do each week
No patience as demonstrated the way we butchered a try at the end of the game
Still passing to players who are standing still
Why play Big Joe and give him more service

 
Re: Very depressed...
GrahamAlba (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 18:05
At this level of the game you have to have a decent kicker. And Theo isn't a decent kicker as he proved today and against Edinburgh. Nick needs to get real and not put the poor kid in such a position.

 
Re: Very depressed...
Hugo.LI (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 19:02
Wasn't at the game but that doesn't sound good at all. For me Theo is not a 10 as he does not have the kicking qualities. Surely it would be much more sensible to give Atkins a go at 10 as from what I've seen of him he is a very good kicker. I don't like slating players but I do think Theo is overrated.
How bad were the injuries?

 
Re: Very depressed...
Finno (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 19:33
Quote:
Shawshank
For those of you not at the game today you would have thought we had done well to run Bath so close.
However, the truth is this was a game that we really did everything possible to throw away.

Yes, Freddie Burns was excellent. But he, an excellent 12 and a decent scrum was all Bath had to offer. But it proved to be enough.

Appalling goal kicking, some dreadful missed touches from penalties, knock-ons galore, daft penalties conceded, you name it, we did it. Time and time again.

It's so predictable, I just knew at the end that we would somehow make an almighty horlicks of that last play on their goal-line, which we did.

We are not getting any real 'value' out of our allegedly 'marquee' players such as Marshall and PdP, who were both dreadfully weak today.

Grrrrrrr......

Just home and am similarly depressed, and have to agree with SS's view Hopefully, that's the end of the TBC 10 experiment, he's just not up to it, at this level. However, he could make a decent centre.

Burns was a class act for Bath, ran the show, and Garvey did an excellent job on being in Sirs ear and obviously influencing him!

We can dress it up whatever way we like, but we just don't have the strength in depth of the killer instinct required at this level. Lets just hope we can out scrap Worcester for survival this year!!!

 
Re: Very depressed...
waltham (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 20:22
IMO TBC was good except for his kicking...He takes far too long in preparation and I'm (and pretty much everyone around us) of the view that he needs to reduce his prep by about 50% . What's our kicking coach doing? Whenever you see any kicker taking an overly long prep time they nearly always have a low strike rate. We'd have won that match today if the first conversion had sailed between the posts..confidence building rather than Oh sh$t, we can't rely on penalty kicks today. Some real positives today, especially once the scrum manned-up after the first two horror turnovers. Glad Max NG had a good match :-)

 
Re: Very depressed...
LIrishxv (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 20:24
Why the heck to we employ Charlie Hodgson?? The kicking has gotten worse!

I thought McKibben played well and hats off to him for stepping up to a goal kick. Joe has a lot to learn as does TBC if he wants to continue to play for Irish.

I find it shameful when there is no desire in the team... these are payed professionals doing a poor job. Doubt weíll win the next Bath match, but at the rate itís going Iíd take a similar result.

Shame we learned nothing from the Paris game.

 
Re: Very depressed...
M51 (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 20:34
I thoughts Irish played well today (apart from PDP, I am not a fan) and yes we lost. Missed kicks and missed opportunities made all the difference. The Ref made a few mistakes in Baths favour (especially the sacking of Brendan and actively instructing the Beef not to prop on his knees whie penalising Irish for doing so). But we were there and there abouts in winning this one, maybe give TBC time to develop his game management and kicking. Why we still do those impossible long kick chases or the cross fields kick where nobody knows the play, leaves me mystified. While we cant influence the coaching staff directly, maybe we can ask indirectly through this medium why do the team keep making the same mistakes. Close today but no cigar, employ a more confident ten and bring big players like Joe and Alex and co into the game with better strategical kicking and we will win. "cmon you Irish".
Onwards and upwards Irish..

 
Re: Very depressed...
Hugo.LI (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 20:36
Quote:
LIrishxv
Why the heck to we employ Charlie Hodgson?? The kicking has gotten worse!
I thought McKibben played well and hats off to him for stepping up to a goal kick. Joe has a lot to learn as does TBC if he wants to continue to play for Irish.

I find it shameful when there is no desire in the team... these are payed professionals doing a poor job. Doubt weíll win the next Bath match, but at the rate itís going Iíd take a similar result.

Shame we learned nothing from the Paris game.

Did Joe have a poor game then?

 
Re: Very depressed...
M51 (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 20:45
Given the limited opportunities I thought Joe had an okay game. He could have done better if the cross field kicking was better or he was more involved in the middle of the field. But for clearer understanding of the game tactics, you will need to ask the coaches. But yes he had an okay game for what amount of ball he got and he was well marked. The Bath defense was good..

 
Re: Very depressed...
Xprop (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 20:59
If Bell had been playing today we would have won. How on earth did the assistant ref miss the high tackle on Blair? It was like a wrestler's head lock and right in front of him!

 
Re: Very depressed...
jimbo800 (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 22:52
We donít appear to have learnt an awful lot over the past few months. The mentality of the club has been to be a nice club, not a winning club. We desperately need a backs coach by the sounds of things. No point having the likes of Alex and joe if they arenít used. Iím even getting bored writing about the issues now. Same stuff every week.
We can try and find positives all we want but that was a very poor bath side against a nearly full strength team today. If we canít win that, weíll need a miracle to stay up. Wuss are improving all the time, weíre just treading water. Hodgson isnít a backs coach, simple. Defence seems to be improving, attack is as bad as it was at the beginning of the season. Get somebody in or face the uncertainty of championship rugby, which by all accounts, we simply cannot afford a second time around

 
Re: Very depressed...
olw131 (IP Logged)
04 November, 2017 23:12
Quote:
jimbo800
We donít appear to have learnt an awful lot over the past few months. The mentality of the club has been to be a nice club, not a winning club. We desperately need a backs coach by the sounds of things. No point having the likes of Alex and joe if they arenít used. Iím even getting bored writing about the issues now. Same stuff every week.
We can try and find positives all we want but that was a very poor bath side against a nearly full strength team today. If we canít win that, weíll need a miracle to stay up. Wuss are improving all the time, weíre just treading water. Hodgson isnít a backs coach, simple. Defence seems to be improving, attack is as bad as it was at the beginning of the season. Get somebody in or face the uncertainty of championship rugby, which by all accounts, we simply cannot afford a second time around

Fully agree with this Jimbo. Premiership rugby is cut-throat. Our attitude towards our coaching and playing staff just isn't.

I am all for Kendo, Dodge, Dec and Skivs cutting their teeth in the top flight but it is quite clear they need guidance as we are indeed making the same irritating mistakes every week.

Dodge's interview in the Princess Suite post-match (posted on Twitter) featured something along the lines of building our game one step at a time, having focused on defence for many weeks. Well lads, the "wall of green" is impressive but there's more to Premiership rugby than that. Show me I'm wrong and I'll be happy. We pay a lot of money and show a lot of loyalty to this club and at the moment are getting sweet F-A in return...

 
Re: Very depressed...
Shawshank (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 06:09
OLW - agreed.

And I can only assume that James Marshall was absent from the training ground during the defence sessions, as his pathetic non-effort to tackle Tupuai at the start, gifting Bath a 7 pt lead, was quite embarrassing at professional level.

 
Re: Very depressed...
Strom (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 09:24
I assume Tommy Bell will be doing the kicking at the next Bath match, so how about getting Franks back to the starting berth for the #3 spot?

One of the younger players can easily start the loosehead berth.


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0fevcMf7PaoR07NAnkpFWaB5kPZm8rRQOZVmiY8nfNbrxPtxlUA

 
Re: Very depressed...
olw131 (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 09:40
Quote:
Strom
I assume Tommy Bell will be doing the kicking at the next Bath match, so how about getting Franks back to the starting berth for the #3 spot?
One of the younger players can easily start the loosehead berth.


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0fevcMf7PaoR07NAnkpFWaB5kPZm8rRQOZVmiY8nfNbrxPtxlUA

Yes, Strom - now we have Smallbone back we shouldn't really need to start Franks at LH...

Additionally, I hope Petrus is consigned to the Wild Geese for a few weeks and made to reflect upon his real lack of doing anything of any importance whatsoever. At Sarries he was one of the best tightheads in the Prem. Here, he is just filling space.

I don't like slagging guys off but really. They are being paid a wage for this and quite frankly the mistakes I saw yesterday were unforgivable and reflective of a soft mentality that shouldn't exist in such an unforgiving, attritional sport where results are king.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2017 09:43 by olw131.

 
Re: Very depressed...
Shawshank (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 10:09
Olly Hoskins must now start.

PdP was taken to the cleaners in the scrum yesterday, being shoved backwards at an alarming rate of knots. His contribution in open play is meanwhile negligible.

Hoskins holds his own in the scrum and is our best current ball carrier by some distance.

 
Re: Very depressed...
Ozzy3213 (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 11:40
Quote:
Shawshank
Olly Hoskins must now start.
PdP was taken to the cleaners in the scrum yesterday, being shoved backwards at an alarming rate of knots. His contribution in open play is meanwhile negligible.

Hoskins holds his own in the scrum and is our best current ball carrier by some distance.

I said this a fortnight ago. Sone players appear undroppable, which is a huge worry for me.

 
Re: Very depressed...
Finno (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 12:02
Quote:
Ozzy3213
Quote:
Shawshank
Olly Hoskins must now start.
PdP was taken to the cleaners in the scrum yesterday, being shoved backwards at an alarming rate of knots. His contribution in open play is meanwhile negligible.

Hoskins holds his own in the scrum and is our best current ball carrier by some distance.

I said this a fortnight ago. Sone players appear undroppable, which is a huge worry for me.

Agreed, I thought Hoskins made a big impact when he came on yesterday, as he's done everytime he's played this season. I'd start with the young guys and bring the old heads on for the last 20, to see the game out(he said hopefully!) or more realistically keep us in touch!

 
Re: Very depressed...
Ozzy3213 (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 12:09
Quote:
Finno
Quote:
Ozzy3213
Quote:
Shawshank
Olly Hoskins must now start.
PdP was taken to the cleaners in the scrum yesterday, being shoved backwards at an alarming rate of knots. His contribution in open play is meanwhile negligible.

Hoskins holds his own in the scrum and is our best current ball carrier by some distance.

I said this a fortnight ago. Sone players appear undroppable, which is a huge worry for me.

Agreed, I thought Hoskins made a big impact when he came on yesterday, as he's done everytime he's played this season. I'd start with the young guys and bring the old heads on for the last 20, to see the game out(he said hopefully!) or more realistically keep us in touch!

Post Stade, pre Sarries I said this exact same thing on this board, start with dynamism and bring on the old heads to close it out, and was largely shot down. Will be interesting to see if a fortnight on peoples views have changed.

 
Re: Very depressed...
orsoncart (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 15:24
SS's thoughts mirror my own. The last six or so seasons have been pretty dire, apart from last year which I enjoyed very much.

Just seems that we get the same old mistakes, then a bit of inspiration, but just fall away, either to a heavy away defeat or to a close home one.

Every week I become illogical and think it's all going to change, but it doesn't.

Far greater minds than I have attempted to analyse the problem - sure, the comparative riches of other clubs is a factor. But all too often our play is way below the apparent skills and experience of the names on the team sheet.

Very depressing, and the way the Club is handling (not) the Berkshire supporters in respect of Brentford is dreadful

It just isn't much fun



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2017 15:27 by orsoncart.

 
Re: Very depressed...
CharlieG (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 16:00
On a positive note, we did get 2 BPs, and outscored Bath by 4 tries to 2.

The details speak for themselves: LI, 4 tries, 1 conv, 0 pens: Bath 2 tries, 2 convs, 4 pens.

If our kicking from the tee had been better, we would have won - and at least one conversion attempt should have been a dead cert.

I spoke to Ciamh briefly after the game, and he told me it was only the 2nd time that Brendan McKibbin had taken a conversion (during a match), and that the 1st time it had been complete rubbish.

 
Re: Very depressed...
Horticbm (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 16:51
Same old Irish, game in game out, year in year out...with the exception of the championship, although we did leak points.I still cant believe the amount of dropped ball and knock ons.Watching Edinburgh play was a different world, ball handling immense in all situations.I cant see staying up unless we improve the basics,I know this was the Anglo Welsh Cup

 
Re: Very depressed...
Paul_D (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 16:53
It speaks volumes that Brendan took that conversion while TBC was still on the field.

 
Re: Very depressed...
Xprop (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 17:25
I was sad to see how distressed Brendan was when he had to go off. I hope this doesn't mean it's a reoccurrence of the injury that's he has just recovered from.

 
Re: Very depressed...
The Sligo Rover (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 21:49
I also thought that we did quite well yesterday, however the kicking let us down yet again.
I am not convinced by TBC, he is not good enough for me at 10, and sorry to say but he is not big enough for a centre. Big Joe - well he must have some potential if you believe Eddie Jones, however I am not yet convinced - hopefully he will develop into a superstar.
Plenty of other room for improvement across the whole squad though, I hope we can finish somewhere between 1 and 11 this season.

 
Re: Very depressed...
AnotherPhil (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 22:33
I thought I heard Matt Garvey say on the ref link that they all heard a crack when McKibben went down. I would guess at something like an ACL rupture from that and the way he went off.

 
Re: Very depressed...
AnotherPhil (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 22:33
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2017 22:34 by AnotherPhil.

 
Re: Very depressed...
cjm. (IP Logged)
05 November, 2017 23:02
Only saw the two minute highlights. Looked like attack was ok but defence, kicking and discipline weren't.

It's all just seems a bit haphazard.

 
Re: Very depressed...
Exile_Dave (IP Logged)
06 November, 2017 19:33
Quote:
AnotherPhil
I thought I heard Matt Garvey say on the ref link that they all heard a crack when McKibben went down. I would guess at something like an ACL rupture from that and the way he went off.

I have the ref link. I didnít hear a crack but I definitely heard Brendan yelp in agony. Hope his injury is minor but looking at him he looked to be out for a while.



I'd rather be a Paddy then a Quin!!

C'mon the boys in Green!!


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