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Same old
Hugo.LI (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 16:23
A lot of effort yes but again we come up with just a solitary point. Think this weekend was a bit of a knockout blow

 
Re: Same old
Horticbm (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 16:27
same old rubbish.we must be top of the league in handling errors..yet another nail in our Premiership coffin

Worcester beware..we got a losing bonus point, yippee...bet they are quaking in their boots

 
Re: Same old
cjm. (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 16:31
OTOH To get a bonus point against Wasps is not nothing

OTOH There was just so much ponderous forward play and so few angles run that our chances of tries were nil. The one we got was gifted to us by Wasps.

Biggest disappointment of the season so far is Cokanisiga. Decimated the championship, less than ordinary in the premiership on this season's showings.

 
Re: Same old
Ajax Treesdown (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 16:34
Quote:
cjm.
OTOH To get a bonus point against Wasps is not nothing
OTOH There was just so much ponderous forward play and so few angles run that our chances of tries were nil. The one we got was gifted to us by Wasps.

Biggest disappointment of the season so far is Cokanisiga. Decimated the championship, less than ordinary in the premiership on this season's showings.

One wonder try vs London Scottish.

 
Re: Same old
jimbo800 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 16:38
Itís hard to know how much joe will develop. Has he stuttered because of the team? Is he actually that good or did everyone just see size and speed? My guess would be that he has the tools to succeed but with no proper backs coach to guide his development, itís hard to see any real change. Iíd send him to New Zealand to six months to develop. Weíve done it with jebb (South Africa), but with our connections, it wouldnít be hard to get him training with some backs who can show him how a big winger impacts a game.

 
Re: Same old
cjm. (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 16:39
Quote:
Ajax Treesdown
Quote:
cjm.
OTOH To get a bonus point against Wasps is not nothing
OTOH There was just so much ponderous forward play and so few angles run that our chances of tries were nil. The one we got was gifted to us by Wasps.

Biggest disappointment of the season so far is Cokanisiga. Decimated the championship, less than ordinary in the premiership on this season's showings.

One wonder try vs London Scottish.

OK, maybe I overegged but he did a bit more than that. However what I saw was someone who looked like he would be dangerous and is instead anonymous. Is it lazyness or bad coaching?

 
Re: Same old
norg2072 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 16:44
I would disagree with the "same old rubbish" statement as that was a much better performance from the off. My big complaint is why sub the front row so early when we are on the front foot, especially Ollie Hoskins, he is a level above old man Petrus. Ollie should start every game. Petrus has offered nothing for the entire season, and when Manasa is back from international duty i hope Boris Johnson moves to the Anglo squad.

 
Re: Same old
Shawshank (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 16:48
Truly Dire tactics in the second half today of constantly kicking away good possession and gifting the ball back to one of the best attacking back lines in European rugby.

No wonder the guys missed a couple of tackles in the end, you simply can't defend wave after wave of attacks like that.

Surely the coaches must realise that kicking away good possession on halfway sends completely the wrong message to the players, the opposition and supporters, and on a fine, dry day like today with a fast pitch, the tactics are truly idiotic.

(Sm164)

 
Re: Same old
cjm. (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 16:49
It's the same old rubbish in terms that lots of hufflepuff but little threat. It's been like that for the last 20 years or so with the honourable exception of the Brian Smith era : Part 1.

PDP is poor but he is not the reason we struggle. Note that Ben Franks was YCed for persistent penalties and has offered relatively little this season too.

 
Re: Same old
Greenboots (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 16:56
We always seem to have 15 minutes where we lose ourselves the game. Earlier in the season it was the first 15 now it just seems to hit us whenever. Need to get rid of that if we want to stay up.

Also our box kicking today again awful

 
Re: Same old
x_ile (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 16:59
Quote:
Shawshank
Truly Dire tactics in the second half today of constantly kicking away good possession and gifting the ball back to one of the best attacking back lines in European rugby.

(Sm164)


I'm mildly curious as to how 'one of the best attacking back lines in European rugby.' only just managed to beat what appears to be comfortably the worst team in the Prem.

I wasn't there so clarification would be appreciated. (Sm100)

 
Re: Same old
orsoncart (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 17:00
Quote:
Shawshank
Truly Dire tactics in the second half today of constantly kicking away good possession and gifting the ball back to one of the best attacking back lines in European rugby.
No wonder the guys missed a couple of tackles in the end, you simply can't defend wave after wave of attacks like that.

Surely the coaches must realise that kicking away good possession on halfway sends completely the wrong message to the players, the opposition and supporters, and on a fine, dry day like today with a fast pitch, the tactics are truly idiotic.

(Sm164)


So, kick it to the opposition, they run at you and you wear yourselves out making tackle after tackle. You finally win the ball and so...... You kick it to the opposition etc etc etc.

No wonder we looked knackered in the last 20, and no wonder Wasps won.

For God's sake, just hang on to the ball and give the defence a break



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/11/2017 17:01 by orsoncart.

 
Re: Same old
Shawshank (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 17:09
Quote:
x_ile
Quote:
Shawshank
Truly Dire tactics in the second half today of constantly kicking away good possession and gifting the ball back to one of the best attacking back lines in European rugby.

(Sm164)


I'm mildly curious as to how 'one of the best attacking back lines in European rugby.' only just managed to beat what appears to be comfortably the worst team in the Prem.

I wasn't there so clarification would be appreciated. (Sm100)

Good question. No doubt that Wasps were not at their best, esp. in the first half. And our tackling was generally excellent.

Once Cipriani came on Wasps really started to flow, and there was a feeling of when, rather than if, for their tries.

We could/should have beaten an off-colour Wasps, but we had zero self belief in our attack...

 
Re: Same old
Horticbm (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 17:16
only Glaws away next...yay...mustnt forget to tell them we got a bonus point.......that will get them runnung

 
Re: Same old
jimbo800 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 17:17
How have we gone so backwards after the free flowing quins win

 
Re: Same old
Horticbm (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 17:21
Quins was a one off, we never play like that...what we have now mirrors 2 seasons ago, 3 seasons ago, 4 seasons ago and so on...we were always in the bottom 4

Doesnt matter who our players were, or Manager....we always ended up near the bottom

 
Re: Same old
SteveS (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 17:39
Quote:
Horticbm
Quins was a one off, we never play like that...what we have now mirrors 2 seasons ago, 3 seasons ago, 4 seasons ago and so on...we were always in the bottom 4
Doesnt matter who our players were, or Manager....we always ended up near the bottom

Budget - the economics of the Reading have not worked in a business sense and the owners arenít interested in throwing good money after bad. Canít blame them. Not convinced weíll ever revive til we get back London. Beating up a lot of semi amateur teams seemed to make everyone think we were brilliant last season so probably best we go back to that in the interim

 
Re: Same old
Shawshank (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 17:55
Quote:
SteveS
Beating up a lot of semi amateur teams seemed to make everyone think we were brilliant last season so probably best we go back to that in the interim

Not quite true Steve.

Can't remember anyone on here ever claiming we were brilliant last season...(Sm100)

 
Re: Same old
Aa545 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 18:23
Quote:
SteveS
Quote:
Horticbm
Quins was a one off, we never play like that...what we have now mirrors 2 seasons ago, 3 seasons ago, 4 seasons ago and so on...we were always in the bottom 4
Doesnt matter who our players were, or Manager....we always ended up near the bottom

Budget - the economics of the Reading have not worked in a business sense and the owners arenít interested in throwing good money after bad. Canít blame them. Not convinced weíll ever revive til we get back London.
Beating up a lot of semi amateur teams seemed to make everyone think we were brilliant last season so probably best we go back to that in the interim
Moving back to London isnít going to change us endlessly missing tackles or pointlessly kicking the ball away and it wonít improve the finances.
The club needs a shake up from top to bottom and we desperately need new coaches with fresh ideas as we are already down IMO if nothing changes.
Another drop to the championship could well signal the death of the club and something has to change before its to late.

 
Re: Same old
grumpy1960 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 18:48
100% agree with you SS, we bought a couple of ďWendy BallĒ supporters with us today on one of our free ticket games to see a Real Game for the first time ever and two minutes after Danny Cipriani came on one of our guests mentioned ď I think they have work you out and are possibly going to win , surely if a pure Rugby novice could see the inevitable they why oh why couldnít our coaches see that the game was slipping away from us and put a stop to the endless kicking away possession?

What has PDP done to qualify to get another match selecting after another inept performance

Grumpy by name Grumpy by Nature

 
Re: Same old
olw131 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 18:54
Quote:
Aa545
Quote:
SteveS
Quote:
Horticbm
Quins was a one off, we never play like that...what we have now mirrors 2 seasons ago, 3 seasons ago, 4 seasons ago and so on...we were always in the bottom 4
Doesnt matter who our players were, or Manager....we always ended up near the bottom

Budget - the economics of the Reading have not worked in a business sense and the owners arenít interested in throwing good money after bad. Canít blame them. Not convinced weíll ever revive til we get back London.
Beating up a lot of semi amateur teams seemed to make everyone think we were brilliant last season so probably best we go back to that in the interim
Moving back to London isnít going to change us endlessly missing tackles or pointlessly kicking the ball away and it wonít improve the finances.
The club needs a shake up from top to bottom and we desperately need new coaches with fresh ideas as we are already down IMO if nothing changes.
Another drop to the championship could well signal the death of the club and something has to change before its to late.

Spot on. The mistakes we are making week after week are totally unforgivable. Granted, the stadium location doesn't help, but we are absolutely not performing to the sum of our parts, and are not learning our lessons.

It's appalling to see our club being run in such a negligent way; we truly can't just wait for the constipated play, knock ons, missed tackles and stupid brainless kicks against the run of play to disappear.

I really thought we'd learnt our lesson from 2 seasons ago but clearly not. And in fact, our emerging trend of running teams so close only to shoot ourselves in the foot with stupid errors is even more dire than the horrific atrocities of Coventry's tenure.

 
Re: Same old
Florida (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 19:41
Dai sums it up pretty well

ďAll due respect to Irish, they've been knocking at the door in the last couple of weeks, so we knew this would be tight and I think their last couple of games have been tight. But giving them the respect that they deserve, if we give the top teams that much ball in our own 22, we'll come unstuck. We know we're going to have to be better.Ē

 
Re: Same old
cjm. (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 19:45
Just watching Worcester. They believe!!! Great running lines and handling for some of the tries.

And Gary Gold being interviewed, isn't it ironic.

 
Re: Same old
jekyll (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 20:15
Once again our lack of an outright backs coach is biting us our back play leaves so much to be desired without much originality which Wasps showed when Cipriani came on.
None of our replacements aprt from Elrington made any imact or improvement, so why bring them on when the original plkayers are playing well.

 
Re: Same old
Buzzboy (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 20:17
Sounds like we dodged a bullet there guys. Good luck for the rest of the season.

 
Re: Same old
Robbers Dog (IP Logged)
26 November, 2017 20:40
Not been on here for a while, too depressed! I'm no expert but I've been following Irish since they moved to Reading, which, according to many on here is when it all went wrong! I could've sworn that in the first few seasons here they won the Powergen Cup, got to the Premiership Final and did quite well in the European Cup competition! And the crowds came to watch and spend their money!
Then the squad changed, performance dropped and many people got fed up spending to watch a losing team. So how will that change "when we return to London"? It won't!!
I don't have a magic wand, but there are a few things that, I feel, could be done. We firstly need younger, faster props! We need some bigger backs. (Our guys looked tiny against Bath last week). Stop kicking the bloody ball away! Compete at the lineout! Nick K & Bob were awesome, now we do nothing!?! As much as I like the "one big family" approach within the club, we need a Coach/DoR who will kick ar*e when we play badly!
Rant over & fingers crossed for the next game.

 
Re: Same old
Ruckingood (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 00:57
What I cannot understand for this game was the sub policy... why do coaches pre plan substitutions regardless of whats happening - sub both Franks and Hoskins at 58 mins when they should have subbed Franks at Half time and kept Hoskins and Elrington on for a while longer. We lost legs around the park after the subs and hence holes began to appear... this is not u14s where everyone must have a run and you can tell the Mums at the beginning of the game that little johnny will get 20 mins.. Tactical nouse is missing across the board. I understand that we wanted to play in their half but kicking with limited chase or out on the full, to a back three as talented as Wasps had, just makes no sense.

 
Re: Same old
paulm1953 (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 10:15
[quote Robbers Dog]Not been on here for a while, too depressed! I'm no expert but I've been following Irish since they moved to Reading, which, according to many on here is when it all went wrong! I could've sworn that in the first few seasons here they won the Powergen Cup, got to the Premiership Final and did quite well in the European Cup competition! And the crowds came to watch and spend their money!
Then the squad changed, performance dropped and many people got fed up spending to watch a losing team. So how will that change "when we return to London"? It won't!!
I don't have a magic wand, but there are a few things that, I feel, could be done. We firstly need younger, faster props! We need some bigger backs. (Our guys looked tiny against Bath last week). Stop kicking the bloody ball away! Compete at the lineout! Nick K & Bob were awesome, now we do nothing!?! As much as I like the "one big family" approach within the club, we need a Coach/DoR who will kick ar*e when we play badly!
Rant over & fingers crossed for the next game.[/quot


Well said. People on this site who think moving to South London from Reading will improve the club e.g. increase crowds, attract better players, improve our business fortunes are, IMHO, deluded.
On the coaching side - One player example - Ben Meehan, whio has got worse since he joined the club and this has to be placed at Dodge's door. Against Bristol in the pre season friendly he had lightening hands - receive and pass in one movement. Yesterday it was pedestrian and predictable. It was embarrassing. Look at Darren Allison when he came on for Bath last week against LI. He was a totally different player.

Watching our backs tackle is also embarrassing. They should be shown the Wales vs All Backs game and see how they should tackle especially Damien McKenzie.

Thinking I will be watching Readingensiens next season

 
Re: Same old
stnick88 (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 10:25
to be fair to PDP, he shored up the scrum. Franks and Hoskins were getting mullered, mainly Franks, but we actually got on top in the scrum when Elrington and PDP came on.

Sooner we get Gordon Reid back the better.

 
Re: Same old
Margin_Walker (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 10:29
Players don't magically get significantly worse because they come in contact with our coaches. Sure, coaching is a factor and Meehan may have looked decent against a couple of Championship teams in pre season.

I think he'll do okay for us, but we are talking about a player who couldn't get a starting gig for the worst Super Rugby team last year. Not some superstar who is suddenly struggling with us. Allinson probably looks better because he's playing for a better team.

Our performance is down to a combination of factors. It's not all the coaches fault and looking at it objectively our players aren't in the same class as most other teams.

 
Re: Same old
The Sligo Rover (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 11:55
LADS, LADS, LADS! Can you all calm down for just a minute.
I have seen a notable improvement over the last three home matches. We only just lost against Bath and Wasps in the league, and while it was disappointing we must keep improving and quickly. I do not agree with many of the doom and gloom comments on here re how bad we have been when we have not. Yes we are bottom, yes we are not happy with that, and yes we still have a lot to do to stay up. Keep the faith.

 
Re: Same old
stnick88 (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 16:56
apologies for the negative (but realistic) post but I think Worcester will beat Sale at home this weekend and we will lose at Glos so we could be as far as 10 points behind. if we then lose away to them on 22nd we are in huge trouble. improvements are great but its results that are needed.

 
Re: Same old
Aa545 (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 17:34
Quote:
The Sligo Rover
LADS, LADS, LADS! Can you all calm down for just a minute.
I have seen a notable improvement over the last three home matches. We only just lost against Bath and Wasps in the league, and while it was disappointing we must keep improving and quickly.
Werenít Bath and Wasps both missing players due to the internationals?
So what you are saying is we lost narrowly to two teams that werenít at full strength. Doesnít seem much hope to cling onto IMO.

 
Re: Same old
Hugo.LI (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 18:12
To be fair wasps had a pretty strong side out. Bath though we really should of beat

 
Re: Same old
SirBurger (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 18:30
Quote:
stnick88
apologies for the negative (but realistic) post but I think Worcester will beat Sale at home this weekend and we will lose at Glos so we could be as far as 10 points behind. if we then lose away to them on 22nd we are in huge trouble. improvements are great but its results that are needed.

Spot on - at this stage it is looking very unlikely we will escape the drop.

 
Re: Same old
peejay (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 18:34
Some great days early on in Reading, so that's not the problem.
The 'family' may well be a problem, Bob to CEO with no experience, players to coaches, ditto.
If it is not the coaches fault, how come Scotland have morphed under Townsend. He quickly worked out that kicking the ball away is wasteful. Run it back, make the opposition tackle, stretch them test them for pity's sake. We seem to operate from the coaching text book of 4 years ago, kick when not in oppo 22, subs by numbers...doh!

 
Re: Same old
SirBurger (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 18:41
Quote:
peejay
Some great days early on in Reading, so that's not the problem.
The 'family' may well be a problem, Bob to CEO with no experience, players to coaches, ditto.
If it is not the coaches fault, how come Scotland have morphed under Townsend. He quickly worked out that kicking the ball away is wasteful. Run it back, make the opposition tackle, stretch them test them for pity's sake. We seem to operate from the coaching text book of 4 years ago, kick when not in oppo 22, subs by numbers...doh!

Good coaches coach to the personnel available. Townsend saw that with Russell and Hogg at his disposal he would be foolish not to play in that manner. The same thing might not necessarily work with Irish. However, I would agree that we seem to be trying to implement the game plan that Sarries first used when they started from scratch and sadly I think the game has moved on since then.

 
Re: Same old
HMRH (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 18:43
Some interesting views. At what level did you all play/coach?

 
Re: Same old
cjm. (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 20:18
Quote:
HMRH
Some interesting views. At what level did you all play/coach?

You watch enough matches you can see the problems and at least have a view on their causes. It's a discussion forum.

 
Re: Same old
HMRH (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 20:23
Easy tiger - not saying we canít discuss it but I think
People are quick to rubbish other peopleís performance in their jobs. Discussing the performance having watched the game no problem but thereís a lot more here and I just wonder how qualified some people are . Itís about opinions right enough but Iíd be fairly unhappy to have someone outside of what Iím doing without all the knowledge suggest I should be out of a job

Just an opinion

 
Re: Same old
Hugo.LI (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 20:46
I'm not sure I've seen us win an up and under this season! It's clear that the kicking is not working. When you have the likes of lewington, Marshall and cokanasiga as your back 3 surely you run it back! I appreciate you shouldn't run all the time and up and unders do have a place in the game but it's horribly over used at the moment

 
Re: Same old
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 20:54
Quote:
Aa545
Quote:
The Sligo Rover
LADS, LADS, LADS! Can you all calm down for just a minute.
I have seen a notable improvement over the last three home matches. We only just lost against Bath and Wasps in the league, and while it was disappointing we must keep improving and quickly.
Werenít Bath and Wasps both missing players due to the internationals?
So what you are saying is we lost narrowly to two teams that werenít at full strength. Doesnít seem much hope to cling onto IMO.
Tbf to LI IMHO the Pests and Barf put out stronger teams than Saints and Tiggers against us but we weren't expected to win either.
You've run the opposition close the last few games picking up LBP on the way.
13 rounds to go.We're still nervous,only 5 points difference!
See you 22nd.Should be a cracker! (Craicer?!)

 
Re: Same old
Hugo.LI (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 22:13
Quote:
cjm.
OTOH To get a bonus point against Wasps is not nothing
OTOH There was just so much ponderous forward play and so few angles run that our chances of tries were nil. The one we got was gifted to us by Wasps.

Biggest disappointment of the season so far is Cokanisiga. Decimated the championship, less than ordinary in the premiership on this season's showings.

Interesting comment regarding cokanasiga. Think it's a bit harsh to single him out as he's only played about 3 prem games this season and looked good against Bath but it raised an interesting point for me.
The likes of Brophy Clews and Cokanasiga picked up a lot of media attention before they even played a game for us which led to them being fast tracked into the team IMO. The coaches now seem desperate for these two to be sucessful for us but is it stunting the development of the likes of Matt Williams, Tom parton and even Ross Neal last year?
Take parton for example, he played in the England under 20 with cokanasiga and arguably out played him. I also remember him regularly impressing in the B&I cup last year yet doesn't get a look in for the first team this year. I appreciate we have good back 3 options but if cokanasiga gets an opportunity I feel like some other lads should too

 
Re: Same old
cjm. (IP Logged)
27 November, 2017 22:31
Quote:
HMRH
Easy tiger - not saying we canít discuss it but I think
People are quick to rubbish other peopleís performance in their jobs. Discussing the performance having watched the game no problem but thereís a lot more here and I just wonder how qualified some people are . Itís about opinions right enough but Iíd be fairly unhappy to have someone outside of what Iím doing without all the knowledge suggest I should be out of a job

Just an opinion

I qualified by entering an email and password in the signup bit of this site :-)

I think qualifications are a bit like contracts. If you have to refer to them then something has gone wrong. If we were mid table these discussions wouldn't come up, but once again we look like a team that is struggling to know what/how to play hence the coaching is fair game.

For instance, on Sunday it was clear to me that the backs were standing too deep and too static. They were nailed behind the gainline every time. This ties up with my disappointment with the likes of Cokanisiga. He should be running onto the ball at speed as often as possible but he isn't.

Some of Sunday was like the bad old days side to side with a slight backwards slide before kicking the ball away for it to be run back at us. I'm not a coach but I can see that this is meat and drink to the oppo.

We didn't look like making a try happen we just got a bit lucky. We need faster, flatter ball to give us a chance of beating the defence and it isn;t happening.

My non-coach tuppence worth


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