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Judging a scrum-half
Griff (IP Logged)
30 January, 2018 09:33
We've had many people on here in recent weeks bemoaning various scrum-halfs (all of our scrummies except PvZ because he's new). This week we're seeing praise for Steele "because his passing was faster" (not a direct quote as far as I'm aware but a hybrid). We've covered this before but it occurs to me that it's worth mentioning when an "improvement" is so noted.

This week, for me, the notable change in our back-line was receivers running onto the ball and presenting themselves in the right space at the right time. As a scrum half that is where your ball pace comes from. All the great nines you've seen were playing with great back-lines so they look quick. Play 'em with a bunch of lads standing around behind them or getting involved in the ruck and they'd look slow and ponderous.

Another thing that has been levelled at the little guys is the number of box-kicks. I agree there have been WAY too many but as a scrum-half who has no-one to pass to it's either run it yourself or kick. The lack of movement off the ball has created our slowness and our inability to keep the ball, not the guy who's stuck with the ball.

With a bit of luck yesterday's video sessions will have focused the backs to creating more stuff for us to work with - the difference between the Wasps game and the previous matches was massive. Maybe we can get the points ticking now?

 
Re: Judging a scrum-half
Ozzy3213 (IP Logged)
30 January, 2018 09:44
I tend to agree with you here Griff. What also strikes me as part of the problem is the constant chopping and changing of the back line. It becomes a lot easier to run good lines at pace and with confidence, when you are used to the players around you and what they are doing.

I know this is going at a slight tangent, but I don't think that it's a coincidence that our two best attacking performances (Saturday and Stade away) came with a 10, 12, 13 combo who are all very comfortable with each other having come through the academy around the same time (albeit different year groups). Add to that Joe out on the wing, and we've actually seen some real cohesion within that unit. I hope that Kendo is brave and sticks with it. The 10-15 that we saw on Saturday is our best and most in form set of backs.

 
Re: Judging a scrum-half
Steelman (IP Logged)
30 January, 2018 10:09
Think you have both made valid points, and just to complicate it further,I've been struck by long it takes for our breakdown ball to be available,until later in the game.Whether that's our fault or sirs,it's hard to tell,but it does strike me that sir wants the ball to be available at a pace to suit his fitness,so passages of play suit a lot better than broke
nfield,so don't be the team defending. Attack or you,re dooooomed(Sm118)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/01/2018 10:22 by Steelman.

 
Re: Judging a scrum-half
jimbo800 (IP Logged)
30 January, 2018 10:40
Quote:
Steelman
Think you have both made valid points, and just to complicate it further,I've been struck by long it takes for our breakdown ball to be available,until later in the game.Whether that's our fault or sirs,it's hard to tell,but it does strike me that sir wants the ball to be available at a pace to suit his fitness,so passages of play suit a lot better than broke
nfield,so don't be the team defending. Attack or you,re dooooomed(Sm118)

Steel man, Iíve felt for much of this season, the slower ball at the breakdown has been intentional. It was talked about a lot that we were building something and essentially starting from the beginning. When you start from the beginning one of the first things you need to do is secure youíre own ball. I think we took it a little too far in overloading the breakdown. Players joining the ruck even though weíd secured ball. This has lead to opposition defenses being set and ready for our next phase, making our back play looking even more pedestrian. I donít feel we have that big ball carrier in the pack to take it up a few phases off nine. Other clubs use pods of three to carry up off nine, we havenít done much of that this season. I hope weíre rectifying some of this now allowing for quicker ball and a less congested breakdown

 
Re: Judging a scrum-half
LI Bohemian (IP Logged)
30 January, 2018 10:58
I would say it's partly the position of whom you are serving the ball too and partly bad habits that come from a lack of confidence of serving it, with our scrumhalves at the moment, it wasn't speed of pass, but the passing from the base of the breakdown, also as SS said the speed of recycled ball was better.
The one thing I noticed when we played Worcester was the amount of players used in a ruck, in defence or attack, it was far less than us in the areas between the 22's giving better attack and defence ability, this also looked like something we adopted on Saturday.

 
Re: Judging a scrum-half
Lazyboy346 (IP Logged)
30 January, 2018 11:41
It's also about the quality of the ball provided by a scrumhalf, be it kicking or passing. If it forces a player to change position, direction or speed in an ineffective or unhelpful way, then it isn't good.

The number of box kicks that had no viable chasers or passes that robbed us of momentum or weren't going to hand were all poor play.

The difference on Saturday was that this seemed the exception not the norm, allowing us to play with tempo. Our whole game was that little fast and speed can cover for a lot of weaknesses in teams if used correctly. Plus both of them ran good supporting lines and attacked the fringes to exploit gaps - we've missed that much of this season.

 
Re: Judging a scrum-half
cjm. (IP Logged)
30 January, 2018 13:11
Quote:
jimbo800
Quote:
Steelman
Think you have both made valid points, and just to complicate it further,I've been struck by long it takes for our breakdown ball to be available,until later in the game.Whether that's our fault or sirs,it's hard to tell,but it does strike me that sir wants the ball to be available at a pace to suit his fitness,so passages of play suit a lot better than broke
nfield,so don't be the team defending. Attack or you,re dooooomed(Sm118)

Steel man, Iíve felt for much of this season, the slower ball at the breakdown has been intentional. It was talked about a lot that we were building something and essentially starting from the beginning. When you start from the beginning one of the first things you need to do is secure youíre own ball. I think we took it a little too far in overloading the breakdown. Players joining the ruck even though weíd secured ball. This has lead to opposition defenses being set and ready for our next phase, making our back play looking even more pedestrian. I donít feel we have that big ball carrier in the pack to take it up a few phases off nine. Other clubs use pods of three to carry up off nine, we havenít done much of that this season. I hope weíre rectifying some of this now allowing for quicker ball and a less congested breakdown

Over prescriptive coaching,IMV, has made as ponderous and the slow scrum half delivery and coffee mornings before each lineout are factors. This should have been sorted in the championship not the premiership.

 
Re: Judging a scrum-half
DrV'sHairyCraic (IP Logged)
30 January, 2018 13:30
It seems as if our starting SH always seems to get flak for taking too many steps & the replacement gets praise for speeding things up. No matter who starts and who comes on.

I'm wondering if there is a different gameplan depending on whether you start or not.

 
Re: Judging a scrum-half
Steelman (IP Logged)
30 January, 2018 13:38
[quote DrV'sHairyCraic]It seems as if our starting SH always seems to get flak for taking too many steps & the replacement gets praise for speeding things up. No matter who starts and who comes on.

I'm wondering if there is a different gameplan depending on whether you start or not.[/quote

Spot on!

 
Re: Judging a scrum-half
jekyll (IP Logged)
30 January, 2018 15:46
Great Its what I have been saying all season, now we just want the SHs to put the ball in front of the players so that they are almost accelerating onto the ball for both backs and forwards, ven more so with the forwards near the oppos tryline and it creates unstoppable momentum!


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