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Brendan Venter??
tonyh50 (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 12:10
Just watched LI on the AP highlights (not that there were many for us) and noticed Brendan Venter was next to Nick and the other coaches. For all his much vaunted presence as part of our coaching team can anyone please tell what he has actually added for his couple of days a month this season?. We are now played 15 and lost 14 so what has he actually done for us?

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
cjm. (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 12:31
Well when you put it like that not much.

I still think we had/have good enough players to stay up. I don't think the players aren't trying either. On the contrary I think the players are putting everything in. However, the way they are playing as a team is not working. Hence all the coaches, including Venter, have to shoulder most of the blame.

Watching the coaches box it's incredible how little discussion or animation there is. It's depressing to see.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
Shawshank (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 12:40
He has been good for the club in the past, but now I think he is something of a fossil.

His tactic of trying to stay up with simply a good defence and a kick-chase attack is way out of date. Even then, we kick poorly and chase slowly.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
GHA (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 12:42
At least half of the players aren't good enough

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
cjm. (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 12:52
Quote:
Shawshank
He has been good for the club in the past, but now I think he is something of a fossil.
His tactic of trying to stay up with simply a good defence and a kick-chase attack is way out of date. Even then, we kick poorly and chase slowly.

There does seem to be a move to play fast and loose coming through now. Just watching the Castres game and it's frantic with really fast and (mostly) accurate offloads. However, our players with our coaches don't have the skills to do that. Plus, if you get it just a little bit wrong you can take a right hammering.

There is nothing wrong with playing the defensive game. England mostly do and this is why they are so hard to beat. You simply have to do what you do really well. We aren't.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
cjm. (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 12:54
Quote:
GHA
At least half of the players aren't good enough
As a squad we have enough good players to be competitive. Individually, clearly there are positions that could be improved.

Interesting question posed elsewhere as to whether this squad has better players than Coventry's had. I think it most definitely has.

Perhaps the worst thing that happened to us this season was beating Quins in the first match at the LDH. I suspect our trainee coaches and some of the players, consciously or unconsciously, thought that the wins would just happen.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 18/02/2018 12:59 by cjm..

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
GHA (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 13:12
I don't think we do - I still think that because we see our squad week in week out we know them better than other squads we come up against, and expect more from them. Time after time we've proved otherwise

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
GHA (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 13:18
Quote:
cjm.
There is nothing wrong with playing the defensive game. England mostly do and this is why they are so hard to beat.

I agree England's defence is top drawer, but they score tries too. Averaging 30 points a game in 2017 and 2018

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
orsoncart (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 17:40
Isn't he involved with Italy plus the Boks, plus a medical practice in SA?

If so, it's daft to think that he can do much to help LI. Didn't we learn from the short, very part-time contract with Sean Edwards, which didn't work either?

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
TheRealBigEasy (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 17:46
I guess we didn't.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
paulm1953 (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 17:57
I thought after our experiences with non full time coaches that we would stop doing this eg
Shaun Edwards. So what benefit have we gained from having Brendan Venter as a coach. Another example - Charlie Hodgson as kicking coach has led to Tommy Bell going from 85% accurate to a lot less than that this season.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
cjm. (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 18:00
Quote:
paulm1953
I thought after our experiences with non full time coaches that we would stop doing this eg
Shaun Edwards. So what benefit have we gained from having Brendan Venter as a coach. Another example - Charlie Hodgson as kicking coach has led to Tommy Bell going from 85% accurate to a lot less than that this season.

Good point. A bit like golfers losing their mojo and having to rebuild their swing from scratch. While they are rebuilding their play turns to@#$%&until sometime later it starts to come together. Hard to both change and play fluently when you are in the midst of a transformation.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
Margin_Walker (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 18:14
Quote:
paulm1953
I thought after our experiences with non full time coaches that we would stop doing this eg
Shaun Edwards. So what benefit have we gained from having Brendan Venter as a coach. Another example - Charlie Hodgson as kicking coach has led to Tommy Bell going from 85% accurate to a lot less than that this season.

You're right, he's not kicking at 85% this season. His AP kicking % is 84.21%

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
jimbo800 (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 21:48
Remember that Venter worked his magic at sarries with a head coach who had just left managing provincial rugby in Ireland. Itís hard to replicate that here when we donít have their cash or the impressive coaching set up.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
Aa545 (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 22:00
Think we need a new head coach and an attack coach for starters , would get rid of Venter as well as I am not sure what he brings to the table.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
19 February, 2018 09:16
I saw BV in our last 3 games, so he is no longer here once a month. I assume he won't stay with us next season in a lower division.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
Exile_Dave (IP Logged)
19 February, 2018 09:24
Quote:
Props are not stupid
I saw BV in our last 3 games, so he is no longer here once a month. I assume he won't stay with us next season in a lower division.

Hopefully we can bring in someone on full time basis to help.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
Aa545 (IP Logged)
19 February, 2018 11:13
Quote:
Exile_Dave
Quote:
Props are not stupid
I saw BV in our last 3 games, so he is no longer here once a month. I assume he won't stay with us next season in a lower division.

Hopefully we can bring in someone on full time basis to help.

Help with what? Putting the cones out?
If Kennedy still needs help then he is in the wrong job IMO as he has failed big time this season.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
Narbia (IP Logged)
19 February, 2018 12:14
Quote:
Aa545
Help with what? Putting the cones out?
If Kennedy still needs help then he is in the wrong job IMO as he has failed big time this season.

There's been a string of failures since hoofing Brian Smith (part II) out of a job. It'll be interesting to see what Mick Crossan decides after the summer break.

The numbers at the Sale game were alarming. (Yes I watch the 6N too). 3,000 (at most) isn't going to sustain a club for years at the Mad. Stad. Especially in the Championship.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
GHA (IP Logged)
19 February, 2018 12:38
After the summer break? Shouldn't we be having a review starting ASAP?

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
Narbia (IP Logged)
19 February, 2018 12:46
Quote:
GHA
After the summer break? Shouldn't we be having a review starting ASAP?

What's the advantage in starting right now? It's not going to change anything.

The real blunder started hoofing Brian Smith out of a job in the 14/15 season - then compounded that by hoofing Glenn Delaney out of one shortly after.

I've no inside knowledge, but I think the 'old boy' network has just run out of road.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
GHA (IP Logged)
19 February, 2018 12:49
If [IF] changes are to be made, the sooner we make them the sooner newcomers can start to put their mark on things and prepare for next season and hopefully the season after

Although I realise if [IF] we make changes, newcomers might not be available until the end of the season anyway

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
DrV'sHairyCraic (IP Logged)
19 February, 2018 13:08
The failure was before that when we slung out Toby Booth. Probably the best coach we've had in the modern era. All he needed was a Delaney type DoR above him to do the paperwork.

We'd have kept most of our academy players too.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
Steelman (IP Logged)
19 February, 2018 13:39
[quote DrV'sHairyCraic]The failure was before that when we slung out Toby Booth. Probably the best coach we've had in the modern era. All he needed was a Delaney type DoR above him to do the paperwork.

We'd have kept most of our academy players too.[/quote.

Although that maybe true, I seem to remember that we,d lost about 12 on the trot, just before he departed.On the other hand he had great success previous to that.Might struggle to lift a team,with his undertakers face on,but maybe he tells a great joke.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
DrV'sHairyCraic (IP Logged)
19 February, 2018 14:15
[quote Steelman][quote DrV'sHairyCraic]The failure was before that when we slung out Toby Booth. Probably the best coach we've had in the modern era. All he needed was a Delaney type DoR above him to do the paperwork.

We'd have kept most of our academy players too.[/quote.

Although that maybe true, I seem to remember that we,d lost about 12 on the trot, just before he departed.On the other hand he had great success previous to that.Might struggle to lift a team,with his undertakers face on,but maybe he tells a great joke.[/quote]

His issues came around contract negotiation time. We were great until Xmas and then fell apart after that. Which is why he needs a non interfering DoR above him.

 
Re: Brendan Venter??
paulm1953 (IP Logged)
19 February, 2018 17:58
Quote:
Margin_Walker
Quote:
paulm1953
I thought after our experiences with non full time coaches that we would stop doing this eg
Shaun Edwards. So what benefit have we gained from having Brendan Venter as a coach. Another example - Charlie Hodgson as kicking coach has led to Tommy Bell going from 85% accurate to a lot less than that this season.

You're right, he's not kicking at 85% this season. His AP kicking % is 84.21%

Nice one MW - should have checked my facts before posting.


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