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Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
Discussion started by tonyh50 , 20 August, 2018 18:48
Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
tonyh50 20 August, 2018 18:48
In the times today - Concern over Ealing’s bid for promotion

[www.thetimes.co.uk]

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
plzd 20 August, 2018 20:12
So he wants 4000 5000 from us?

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
HMRH 20 August, 2018 21:02
Hence the need to ring fence - and let’s be honest we’re not awash with fan numbers

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
GHA 20 August, 2018 22:35
The reason they shouldn't go up is because they shouldn't be finishing top of the league... we should

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
LI Bohemian 20 August, 2018 23:08
Quote:
plzd
So he wants 4000 5000 from us?

Please elaborate on the "us" you are refuring to, if you have time in your flitting between MB's

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
Margin_Walker 21 August, 2018 07:48
As long as the Gooley money is there, they are as viable as we are.

Bit of an odd argument, given that the league isn't exactly full of sustainable businesses.

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
Griff 21 August, 2018 08:52
I think he's making a reasonable point - and one that Welsh never quite got. We're (just about) in a position to take-on GP rugby but only really because as an existing prem shareholder we get fully funded. Any newcomers need to have a war-chest of cash because they don't get that funding until they've been a GP member for a while (5 years?). They can't whine about this, the existing shareholders have all paid very handsomely for the privilege, the new guys are just paying their dues.
I've no idea whether Ealing have this level of funding. With an average crowd of 814 they don't really have the supporter-base but it's increasingly obvious that support does not finance Rugby Union. If Ealing have deep enough pockets and a plan they _should_ get a go at the GP but they should be well aware of what it will cost.
The interesting thing for me is: why would you want to be a premiership rugby club? Virtually none of them make money. The ones that do are probably only doing so from property investments, the rugby is almost a sideline. As mentioned above you won't even get a share of the TV pie until you've hung around for a while. So a new club joining the GP must want to do it for the glory which is admirable but, as the article suggests, they really do need to be careful it doesn't take their club down.

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
Egg Head 21 August, 2018 08:56
If they win the league, they deserve to go up, regardless of ground size or fanbase. I doubt this will happen and certainly hope it will not. Dislike the idea of ring fencing as promotion and relegation makes the season more exciting. Anyway...watched Ealing at Blackheath on Saturday. They were dominant in the first half but made some changes for the second and were outplayed by Blackheath. They lost the second half comfortably.....for what it is worth, being a pre-season friendly and all.

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
waltham 21 August, 2018 09:35
Although I've not really been a fan of ring-fencing.. I still think we'll have to end up with some sort of franchise system: It's really the only way for lower league position clubs to be able to attract any significant finance (capital and sponsors) i.e. to offer a long-term future with the attendant advertising and PR opportunities etc.

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
PV 21 August, 2018 10:44
Rugby simply isn’t a viable commercial product. Ealing could survive if they continue to get the Gooley ‘investment’. However, all clubs are reliant on heavy funding with limited likelihood of any return.

If I had the money, I wouldn’t be sinking it into rugby union unless I was happy to lose it along the ride.

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
WorcesterSauce 22 August, 2018 12:51
Ealing have as much right as Irish do in going up, should they come top.

To use London Welsh as an example as to what can happen to clubs is an insult given the difficulties and obsticles that they had to overcome. They even won a court case, remember?

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
Bazzo 22 August, 2018 13:07
Ealing do have every right to go up, every club in the Championship has the same right. If they finish top, they can get a ground and play away. The size of the fan base is irrelevant.

The financial situation is down to each individual club as well. No idea how Ealing can afford it, if their owner is giving them the money to buy a new ground and buy good players to survive then fair enough.

The situation that I would find strange (and it could happen) is that a club would win the Championship and not take up the option to go up. Even Ealing might do that. When we were in the Championship and had the pleasure of being the last club to get promoted via the play off system. (Bristol had no play off and got to play in the Premiership A league last year, are we just unlucky or what?), of the four clubs that were in the playoffs only ourselves and Leeds said we would take up the option Ealing and Donny said no. Whats changed?

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
plzd 22 August, 2018 19:34
What I meant is that this is concerning if they don't want Ealing will they prefer us to Bristol who get twice the crowd we get

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
LI Bohemian 22 August, 2018 23:29
Quote:
plzd
What I meant is that this is concerning if they don't want Ealing will they prefer us to Bristol who get twice the crowd we get

But are the quins crowd numbers that low?

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
HMRH 23 August, 2018 12:13
Nothing against Ealing specifically but I don’t see how rugby in England is best served by small teams
Being promoted to the Premiership. Yes it’s good to see a new face and exciting and all that but they’re bankrolled by one man and his company, they have no history of being a major club and will be another stadium renter - sadly as are we.

We are better served by ring fencing the Premiership at least for 10 years and allowing clubs to find the balance between costs and squad sizes. Would I feel the same if we were not included in a ring fenced Premiership? Possibly not but the argument holds water regardless.

We want packed grounds with great players - that’s not going to happen by admitting small clubs.

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
WorcesterSauce 23 August, 2018 23:16
You're argument lost all credibility when you say you wouldnt agree with rinf fencing if Irish werent in it but then said the Premiership wanted packed grounds with great players.

I dont care if the teams in the prem are historically the "biggest". If they deserve to be there on playing merit then that's the end of it

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
HMRH 24 August, 2018 07:03
Credibility - easy come easy go

I tried to be honest in my views. I’d hate it if Irish were excluded from a ring fenced league but still think it’s the right thing for rugby in England. There isn’t enough of a fan base nor enough money to support 1 and a bit professional leagues.

More stability would provide a better overall outcome in my opinion of course and that would
Drive up crowds and revenues

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
WorcesterSauce 24 August, 2018 20:52
Worcester vs Bristol 2 seasons ago was a sell out. Are you really suggesting it would have still been a sell out if had not been a pivotol relegation decider and merely 11th vs 12th?

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
Florida 24 August, 2018 21:15
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Worcester vs Bristol 2 seasons ago was a sell out. Are you really suggesting it would have still been a sell out if had not been a pivotol relegation decider and merely 11th vs 12th?

I think they're suggesting crowds over the course of the season would increase

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
jimbo800 24 August, 2018 21:20
I feel they made a mistake making the championship a pro league. It put pressure on clubs who weren’t ready for it causing far more financial pressure and uncertainty

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
Florida 24 August, 2018 21:24
I don't think it being a pro league is a bad thing, but a pro league without any investment is pretty poor. There doesn't seem to be much of a strategy to improve things either.

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
jimbo800 24 August, 2018 21:31
Quote:
Florida
I don't think it being a pro league is a bad thing, but a pro league without any investment is pretty poor. There doesn't seem to be much of a strategy to improve things either.

It appeared as though the powers that be decided it would be pro and then left them to it

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
LI Bohemian 24 August, 2018 23:37
The rules are the rules and if Ealing finish top and they can meet the criteria for premiership rugby, then so be it.
If they decline the premotion, then I can see the rules being changed, with some form of ring fencing being imposed, it will be a viable option then.
The powers that be in my opinion have always acted with little foresight, never looking to the future but only to make decisions in a fire fighting way.
They have always been self serving amateurs in charge of professionals and now find themselves being told what to do by the premiership big boys, because they lacked the vision in the first place to see it coming.

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
WorcesterSauce 24 August, 2018 23:42
Quote:
Florida
Quote:
WorcesterSauce
Worcester vs Bristol 2 seasons ago was a sell out. Are you really suggesting it would have still been a sell out if had not been a pivotol relegation decider and merely 11th vs 12th?

I think they're suggesting crowds over the course of the season would increase

Yep and I think otherwise as teams at the bottom would have nothing to play for after about December (hence the example).

Re: Why Ealing shouldn’t go up!
ExiledChameleon 25 August, 2018 00:25
Quote:
HMRH
Nothing against Ealing specifically but I don’t see how rugby in England is best served by small teams
Being promoted to the Premiership. Yes it’s good to see a new face and exciting and all that but they’re bankrolled by one man and his company, they have no history of being a major club and will be another stadium renter - sadly as are we.

We are better served by ring fencing the Premiership at least for 10 years and allowing clubs to find the balance between costs and squad sizes. Would I feel the same if we were not included in a ring fenced Premiership? Possibly not but the argument holds water regardless.

We want packed grounds with great players - that’s not going to happen by admitting small clubs.

The best way to go would be to look across at France, where the LNR manages both top leagues, and a decent proportion of TV rights are shared with the ProD2, this enables the ProD2 to be a credible second tier, which means that when teams get relegated to it they don’t suffer massively.

However since PRL is way too greedy the ideal solution for England would be a 16 team, 2 conference setup IMO, current 14, plus two of Ealing, Doncaster, Bedford, and Nottingham. Ring fence it for three years, then introduce P&R, with 15th v 2nd in Champ and 16th v 1st.


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