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Paddy Jackson Reports
SomersetExile (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 11:51
Long term reader of The Craic, never got round to posting before (mainly do LI stuff on Facebook/Twitter) but as the club seem to read this site more now I felt the need to post this.

Now the BBC and other mainstream sites are reporting we will sign Paddy, it seems that the rumours are true and he will sign. I must admit, my heart sinks every time I read the news he is coming to join us. First and foremost, lets get two things out of the way:
1 – It makes rugby sense to sign him, I’ve seen him play for Ireland live, I have even met him after a match, he is a great 10 and we need one.
2- He is NOT guilty of rape or sexual assault, and we should all respect that he is not a rapist

My issue is with his behaviour and the impact on our club. I have read the trial reports and his whatsapp group messages, they are uncomfortable to read. He and his friends in Ulster have for years been on the prowl for ‘Belfast sl*ts’ ‘Brazzers’ to ‘Spit roast’ – the language he and his friends use is nothing new, we all have seen groups of ‘lads’ in bars and clubs behaving appalling around women, looking for a bit of rough fun that they can boast about the next day. Paddy had such rough sex with the girl that night they found her blood in his bed, she then left the house in tears. It was not rape, but it was unpleasant and clearly nothing new to his group of friends. It was seen as so bad, both Ulster and Ireland paid him up and sent him on his way. If they don’t want him why do we?

Since then I have not seen a single interview or article where Paddy or any of his friends have come out to acknowledge they need to be better in future, that their behaviour although not illegal was well below the standards they should aspire to and that they agree with the decision of Ulster to let them go – not a peep from them.

Now many of you will disagree with my views above, that’s cool and its important we as fans can disagree. We all disagree about lots of things, who should play, are the coaches good enough, should we move to Brentford, do we need long sleeve cotton shirts (the answer is clearly yes for that one!)…….. However, when the whistle goes those arguments stop, we all back the 15 on the pitch, and for 80 minutes we all bleed green. If Paddy joins then I fear that unity will be broken for ever.

I have been watching Irish play for years, but I honestly don’t know if I can cheer for Paddy Jackson, if he slots his first 3 points for us will I be happy to wave my flag and get excited? I just don’t know. My wife, who is as fervent an Irish fan as you can get, told me she does not know if she will even want to go to games anymore. What will happen at matches if people protest or voice their discontent, will we see arguments in the stands? And what will away fans do – or what will happen when we go to places like Gloucester, the abuse will be loud and clear from the stands, it is only natural, just look at the abuse Bloodgate lead to for several years after for Quins.

I pray that the rumours are not true and the club find a 10 elsewhere. It is not so much the fact I would not want him to play for us, it is more the impact on us the fans. I see his signing being a dividing line from which it will be hard to come back from. It brings an element of attention none of us need, I want to see us all in Premiership together cheering on the team, but I fear the reality will be fans staying away, fans in the ground clearly unhappy he is there, fans openly disagreeing, kids confused why they cant have Jackson on a shirt as parents won’t stand for it, away fans revelling in turmoil.

I’m sure if we saw every players whatsapp messages we would see a lot more unsavoury things, but right now we have seen just his and his friends, and for one I simply don’t know if I will be willing to come back next year if he is on the pitch and it breaks my heart to even consider not seeing my beloved Irish again.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
old hillbilly (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 12:35
Perhaps you might want to look at these:
[url=http://[www.bbc.co.uk]]
and
[www.theguardian.com]

So plenty of evidence that show he has apologised. And whilst I fully understand and appreciate all the points you make, don't you think also that there should be a willingness on all our parts to give a 'sinner' a second chance?

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
SomersetExile (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 13:00
Thanks for sharing the links, I did see that at the time, this might be harsh but I kinda saw that as pretty standard response you would expect to see just after the trial. Perhaps he has taken the view to keep quiet in the last year, I didn't see any statements after he was sacked later on, maybe there were and I've not seen them.

I see your point on second chances, and many others will rightly agree, but being selfish I don't want it to be us. We just don't need the hassle and grief this will bring, I honestly think it will be near 50/50 for and against in our fan base - I just don't think it makes sense to risk bringing him in.

Roll the clock forward to next season, say we go for the double header again to open the season, 60,000+ in HQ, Jackson gets the ball to kick off, I can see deafening boos and applause in equal measure, it is just not worth it.

God forbid we end up playing Ulster in Europe too!

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
jimbo800 (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 13:06
From memory, which may be wrong and I may have missed things but there was a witch hunt element to this trial. There was a lot of unpleasantness but it all quickly became irrelevant that the innocent verdict was delivered. They were going to end their Irish careers one way or another.
There have been plenty rugby players involved in the opposite sex, some of it reported, some of it just what you hear through word of mouth. It is not exclusive to these two players. Everyone has an opinion on this matter, it’s a true room divider for a sport that tries to have a strong moral code.
For me, they have been pulled through the ringer on many ways, financially their families were nearly ruined whilst also losing their chance of earning at home or playing international rugby. It’s not for me to forgive them, they’ve done nothing to me. They’ve been publicly hung out to dry for text messages, for me that’s ridiculous. Let the punishment fit the crime, there was no guilt associated with them. Let them get on with their lives.

I’ve said plenty in my youth that I’m embarrassed of now. You don’t learn unless you mess up a long the way.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Shawshank (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 13:14
I’m sure that there are plenty of 20-something single males who would not want there private messages to their mates read by their families, let alone the whole world.

Unless you were present in court for the whole trial and heard and saw all the evidence and understood all its context, I think it would unwise to reach any view as to someone’s character.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
SomersetExile (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 13:27
I think you have hit the nail on head when you say it is a room divider, there is no right or wrong view on this, for everyone with your take there will be some else who will not want to forgive. That for me is why signing him would be a huge error, we get a decent 10 but at what cost.

Quote:
jimbo800
From memory, which may be wrong and I may have missed things but there was a witch hunt element to this trial. There was a lot of unpleasantness but it all quickly became irrelevant that the innocent verdict was delivered. They were going to end their Irish careers one way or another.
There have been plenty rugby players involved in the opposite sex, some of it reported, some of it just what you hear through word of mouth. It is not exclusive to these two players. Everyone has an opinion on this matter, it’s a true room divider for a sport that tries to have a strong moral code.
For me, they have been pulled through the ringer on many ways, financially their families were nearly ruined whilst also losing their chance of earning at home or playing international rugby. It’s not for me to forgive them, they’ve done nothing to me. They’ve been publicly hung out to dry for text messages, for me that’s ridiculous. Let the punishment fit the crime, there was no guilt associated with them. Let them get on with their lives.

I’ve said plenty in my youth that I’m embarrassed of now. You don’t learn unless you mess up a long the way.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
SomersetExile (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 13:35
I don't think it is fair to say that unless someone took a month off work and sat in court they are not allowed a view on one of the biggest rugby talking points of 2018. And even if my views are not in line with yours, that is not really my point. The very fact that this issue will evoke such strong feelings is why signing him will be a massive risk. We can all discuss if we think some of the players linked with us are worth the money or good enough but that conversation calms down once they join, I simply don't think this one will.


Quote:
Shawshank
I’m sure that there are plenty of 20-something single males who would not want there private messages to their mates read by their families, let alone the whole world.
Unless you were present in court for the whole trial and heard and saw all the evidence and understood all its context, I think it would unwise to reach any view as to someone’s character.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Bill the chip (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 14:03
Somersetexile ...... I really don’t want to , but check out the story of one of our club legends in 2008 on England duty.. and see how you both feel about him ???? He turned out to be one of the nicest family men who had inspired many generations..... yet you would have pulled the guillotine!
As to the texts...... channel 4 and the “ inbetweeners” have made a living out of bringing the same language to our TVs and the masses .

Mike Tyson was found guilty of rape and went to prison . Adam Johnson has been found guilty of child molesting and gone to prison .... everyone in this case has been set free .... NOT guilty

As stated by shawshank and others , 12 men AND women and a professional judge have sat thru EVERYdetail of this case to reach their conclusion and set these guys free.... the scariest part of this whole subject is the fact the result is still not good enough for some and want to had out street justice based solely on paper clippings and hearsay!

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
SomersetExile (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 14:18
How about you learn to READ before you start kicking off.

I said he is innocent of rape, he is not a rapist - end of. That is the courts job done with.

As for what happens next, everyone has the right to a view on his behaviour. This is not a witch hunt by me or others, it is a choice, I choose to not want to see him in an Irish shirt. Ulster and the IRFU both made the same choice, you and others have decided that you are happy for him to join - fine that's your view, no issues there. Don't go ramming NOT GUILTY down the throats of people who happen to be a bit worried that our new 10 made a 19 year old girl bleed in his bedroom while he spit roasted her with his mates before laughing about it on social media - again NOT GUILTY of rape but hardly a sin by me to find it distasteful.

In only a few replies though, my original point seems to stand up pretty well - this will spilt our fan base down the middle. For me this is typical Irish, we finally have money, we finally have a new home, lets find away to muck it up.



Quote:
Bill the chip
Somersetexile ...... I really don’t want to , but check out the story of one of our club legends in 2008 on England duty.. and see how you both feel about him ???? He turned out to be one of the nicest family men who had inspired many generations..... yet you would have pulled the guillotine!
As to the texts...... channel 4 and the “ inbetweeners” have made a living out of bringing the same language to our TVs and the masses .

Mike Tyson was found guilty of rape and went to prison . Adam Johnson has been found guilty of child molesting and gone to prison .... everyone in this case has been set free .... NOT guilty

As stated by shawshank and others , 12 men AND women and a professional judge have sat thru EVERYdetail of this case to reach their conclusion and set these guys free.... the scariest part of this whole subject is the fact the result is still not good enough for some and want to had out street justice based solely on paper clippings and hearsay!

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
ExiledChameleon (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 14:27
I'm fine with it, what he did was stupid, and a sign of a very immature character, but he has suffered for his actions, and hopefully selected on it and changed his ways, and got some better friends. Kiss has worked with him previously, and presumably seen no other warning flags. I'm fine with it.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Bill the chip (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 14:50
You started the post and must have expected some incoming?? I fully respect yours and others views... and to a certain point get exactly what your trying to say ... but for me by definition , trying to hang a not guilty man IS a witch hunt!
You haven’t given me your views on the case I gave you??? The scrum half we are linked with has a spread sheet you might not like , James o Connor we used to employ was a drug taker where is your moral compass set? All of the above are proven , but ok yeah? The Not guilty is huge in the PD case and I have to trust in the 12 that let him go..... I will reserve my judgement of him when/ if I meet him!

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Dermot66 (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 15:18
Exactly why I posted this previously:

As a family club, LI need to think seriously about this. Very good rugby player but I believe this would would alienate a lot of our fan base.



If this goes ahead, we are in danger of losing supporters. 2 in this case as my wife is as much a fan of London Irish as I am. Cannot see families coming to cheer him on.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
ExiledChameleon (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 15:23
For every supporter we'd lose we'd gain 5 for actually being competitive in the Prem.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Margin_Walker (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 15:29
I'd be fine with Jackson signing. He's already paid a fairly high price for his behaviour and people usually deserve a second chance unless guilty of something substantive.

I dare say a few young players that have passed through our club over the years would be sweating if their sexual conduct and private messages had garnered the same sort of scrutiny



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/01/2019 15:29 by Margin_Walker.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
bigbitty (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 15:33
I'm very happy for him to join LI. However I am sure that LI would make it very clear to him that he is in the last chance saloon, and any future misdemeanours (however small) would be the end of his professional career (and not just his LI career).

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Bill the chip (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 15:38
Dermott66 I put it to you also.....read the story in 2008 of our club legend on England duty! He is an absolute legend in my eyes but to some ?????

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Shawshank (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 15:40
Can someone please explain why LI is more of a ‘family club’ than any other?

And if we are, does it matter?

Is anyone not going to play for the U10’s minis on a Sunday morning at Hazelwood because we sign Paddy Jackson? Of course not.

And BTW I don’t see many of these families at the Madstad these days.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
LI Bohemian (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 18:35
Quote:
Exiled3Chameleon
For every supporter we'd lose we'd gain 5 for actually being competitive in the Prem.

Would that be the Jackson 5?

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
tatthecraic2 (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 18:41
Don't come back then.

Honestly it won't matter in the business of rugby.

This so self righteous and holier than thou... people need to realise it's a long long fall from your pedestal.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 18:43
Oh no support might be divided on the terraces and there might be boos and cheers in equal measure. As long as he does the business on the pitch, who cares?

As for the 'God forbid we play Ulster in Europe' comment, didn't Ulster supporters take out a full page ad in the paper in support of Jackson and Olding? In response to some woman who'd never been to an Ulster game in her life who took out an ad saying they should be kicked out of the club...

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
LI Bohemian (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 18:57
Have got no opinion on it really, which even surprises me! I know how the courts, media and social media work in portraying the truth one way or the other.
If he signs I will go to a game and see how I feel about it when I'm at the actual game as a supporter. This is the only way to be completely honest about it, if I feel uncomfortable, I walk away, if not carry on, suggest everyone should do this.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
SomersetExile (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 21:59
I go out to buy a new bed and come back to lots of abuse, classy!

I find it amazing that we can't accept other people having a different view without basically saying fine, get lost, go support someone else. Perhaps that is why our fanbase has dwindled so much over the last 5 years? If you are happy for him to sign then all power to you, you will enjoy seeing a quality player, but maybe some people on here need to be more gracious that there will be a fair few fans who will not welcome his arrival.

I do believe we are a family club and it matters, when I compare us to other clubs we do have in general a much better set of fun loving, welcoming supporters.

On Topsy, for the record I think the two cases are very different, for one those involved were not charged or sacked from their clubs and countries, but at the end of the day my views on that are not really relevant. I'll go back to my original point, on this thread alone there are at least 4, maybe 5 fans, who will find him playing for us hard to swallow. As a club we seem to have lost 1000's of fans in the last few years, it seems a risky strategy to sign a player the club must know will divide opinion.


LI Bohemian, your suggestion seems the best I've seen, I will most likely rock up next year and see how I feel. My worry for the club is last time we went up, we had an amazing victory over Quins at HQ (amazing day out BTW!) but still only managed 5500 at the next home game. With many Reading based fans turning away now we are off to London (I incidentally don't care where we play as I live miles away as it is!) and with Paddy joining, will we even get 4k turn up?

Maybe it will all work out ok, only time will tell.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Florida (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 22:15
Here's how I view this. If it were my son, would I brandish a torch and pitchfork and run him out of the house? Would I sit him down, tell him his behaviour is not ok and then see what we can do to help him learn and grow and be a positive influence.

Seems to be a bit too much pitchfork for a supposed family club.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
TSW22 (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 22:53
I think you need to buy some more wax for your cross.

This is only rugby mate.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 23:38
Quote:
On this thread alone there are at least 4, maybe 5 fans, who will find him playing for us hard to swallow

Yourself, your partner, someone else, and their partner. Whereas there's 12 maybe more who have a different opinion. You've said after the Quins HQ win we only had 5,500 the following week, then suggest if Jackson signs we might struggle to get 4,000... a drop of 1,500 fans?!

I'm not sure the divide is as big as you're trying to make out

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
SomersetExile (IP Logged)
26 January, 2019 23:57
Quote:
GHA
Quote:
On this thread alone there are at least 4, maybe 5 fans, who will find him playing for us hard to swallow

Yourself, your partner, someone else, and their partner. Whereas there's 12 maybe more who have a different opinion. You've said after the Quins HQ win we only had 5,500 the following week, then suggest if Jackson signs we might struggle to get 4,000... a drop of 1,500 fans?!

I'm not sure the divide is as big as you're trying to make out

I think are deliberately being facetious and you know it. On this tiny sample of fans we have as you say 4 against, 12 for - so 25% for and 75% against. Add in the London move fall out and we could well see a drop in fans.

But lets keep things civil, if I'm wrong and we see 10,000+ at the Madjeski next year DM your block/seat and I'll come buy you a Guinness (Sm128)

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 00:02
Except if we sign Paddy Jackson you won't be attending

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
SomersetExile (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 00:10
Make it a cup game then when we play the kids

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 00:14
Quote:
SomersetExile
Make it a cup game then when we play the kids

Let's just wait and see. Seems like this dividing line of yours is very thin indeed - the small sample size is actually 12 to 2 in terms of people posting on the message board. And the original poster (i.e. you) set your stall out right at the start. If someone started a thread saying 'I hope the rumours are true, it'd be a great signing, a statement of intent and I'm excited to see him run out for us' it might be different.

Either way, who knows, who cares. If he signs, he signs, and hopefully he does the business on the pitch.

Do you support a football club, out of interest?

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Florida (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 00:20
Quote:
SomersetExile
Quote:
GHA
Quote:
On this thread alone there are at least 4, maybe 5 fans, who will find him playing for us hard to swallow

Yourself, your partner, someone else, and their partner. Whereas there's 12 maybe more who have a different opinion. You've said after the Quins HQ win we only had 5,500 the following week, then suggest if Jackson signs we might struggle to get 4,000... a drop of 1,500 fans?!

I'm not sure the divide is as big as you're trying to make out

I think are deliberately being facetious and you know it. On this tiny sample of fans we have as you say 4 against, 12 for - so 25% for and 75% against. Add in the London move fall out and we could well see a drop in fans.

But lets keep things civil, if I'm wrong and we see 10,000+ at the Madjeski next year DM your block/seat and I'll come buy you a Guinness (Sm128)

The maths is indeed wrong because the sample is you and your partner and one other and their partner, what isn't taken into account is the 12 and their possible partners. For example, I will still go and Mrs Florida will still gladly come along. Thus the twelve or so could swiftly become circa 24

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 00:22
And the divide gets ever smaller

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
SomersetExile (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 00:26
Christ how did this end up being a maths debate?!?!

Well if it is just the 4 of us then so be it, enjoy the Premiership with Paddy.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 00:28
Quote:
SomersetExile
Christ how did this end up being a maths debate?!?!
Well if it is just the 4 of us then so be it, enjoy the Premiership with Paddy.

Did you post to debate or did you post to recruit?

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
SomersetExile (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 00:39
Quote:
GHA
Quote:
SomersetExile
Christ how did this end up being a maths debate?!?!
Well if it is just the 4 of us then so be it, enjoy the Premiership with Paddy.

Did you post to debate or did you post to recruit?

Neither to be honest, in all my years watching Irish this the first time I have even considered turning away, this was an avenue to let a bit of that frustration out.

This not really a topic where debate works very well, its too emotive both ways. In the real world where I'm not typing and watching Rocky on ITV right now, there will people for and against, its not for me to tell them they are wrong or right. But I do believe there will be large number of our remaining fans who will think twice about this.But as I said, if I'm wrong and no one else really cares then hey, it ends up being my loss with no hard feelings to the rest of you.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 00:42
It can get emotive when people come out and say 'kids won't understand why parents won't let them have the name Jackson on the back of their shirts, and they don't understand why'

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
SomersetExile (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 00:50
If you think that is emotive, go stand in the Shed when we play Glos and see what they have to say to Paddy.

Either way I get the distinct impression my attempts to have a reasoned conversation are wasted on you GHA as you just keep posting one liners back to make a point that I seem to be on my own and in wrong.

Lets leave this here, goodnight all - who knows Paddy might decide to stay in the French sunshine after all.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 00:54
Quote:
SomersetExile
If you think that is emotive, go stand in the Shed when we play Glos and see what they have to say to Paddy.
Either way I get the distinct impression my attempts to have a reasoned conversation are wasted on you GHA as you just keep posting one liners back to make a point that I seem to be on my own and in wrong.

Lets leave this here, goodnight all - who knows Paddy might decide to stay in the French sunshine after all.

Who cares what the Shed have to say? He's a professional, I'm sure he'll cope, same way I'm sure Irish fans should be able to cope. It's what happens on the pitch that counts, isn't it? Anyway Sonny Bill, Aaron Smith and the All Blacks have coped haven't they?

You're not on your own and in the wrong, I'm just not sure how many share your strongly held views

You shouldn't go to sleep yet, England Sevens are on on 24 minutes

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
tatthecraic2 (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 00:59
You're not on you're own. But you're a trumped up. Self opinionated minority. I genuinely feel that it's be better if you didn't support. This is a business. The business is rugby. And we need to win.

In real world. Redundancy happens. The asshole becomes the boss. The MD runs a company into the ground, takes his money and leave people without pensions.

Get your head out of your ass and either support or @#$%& off. You saying you will no longer be a supporter is a threat. And it is a risk and threat that London irish will happily wear. Good bye.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
HMRH (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 07:43
Moral righteousness - everyone is entitled to their view. If we become a club or indeed a group of supporters that select based on a moral code where does that start and end?

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
SirBurger (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 09:21
Quote:
tatthecraic2
You're not on you're own. But you're a trumped up. Self opinionated minority. I genuinely feel that it's be better if you didn't support. This is a business. The business is rugby. And we need to win.
In real world. Redundancy happens. The asshole becomes the boss. The MD runs a company into the ground, takes his money and leave people without pensions.

Get your head out of your ass and either support or @#$%& off. You saying you will no longer be a supporter is a threat. And it is a risk and threat that London irish will happily wear. Good bye.

Sorry, but that is a bit unpleasant. I don't agree with somersetexile and will judge Jackson on what he does on the pitch, but we are all entitled to our opinions and we shouldn't be telling other fans to @#$%& off.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
PV (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 10:41
Lets try and treat each other with the dignity any human deserves. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and can elect to attend matches or not.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
BaltiBoy (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 10:45
I think the crux of the OP's actual question here has been somewhat missed and overlooked.

For me the original question has nothing to do with what PJ did or did not do, or your opinion of him as an individual, but the impact his arrival will have on the London Irish community.

In answer to this, I think it will have a very minimal impact on London Irish especially in the long term. Supporters first and foremost want to see a winning team and if he contributes to that I genuinely believe his off-field misdemeanors will be overlooked and largely forgotten by most.

Therefore a winning team with PJ at the helm will actually increase our supporter base IMVHO irrespective of his past.

SomersetExile - you may not agree with my appraisal of this situation, but I hope this goes someway to answering your original question.



Cheers & Beers
BB

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
rugbygibbo (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 16:09
I have my concerns about the signing from a commercial perspective. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the trial and it’s coverage, the fact is he’s now damaged goods with a bad reputation, particularly among young Irish people.

If the club are trying to draw a new fan base of that self same group into the new stadium in Brentford as well as reconnecting with the original family orientated west London set, I can’t see this as anything other than a big own goal. It’s a move that will put off exactly the sort of people that the club need to win over.

Were he a better player it might be worth the risk but sadly
I don’t think he’s going to be a world beater that will turn the side around. (Although very happy to be wrong!).

For me from a pure risk/ reward analysis the signing just doesn’t add up, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the situation

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 17:00
Quote:
rugbygibbo
Were he a better player it might be worth the risk

First capped aged 21, backup to Jonny Sexton the reigning IRB World Player of the Year, won 25 caps by age 25 or so. I'm surprised you think his quality is the issue...

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
rugbygibbo (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 17:48
I’m not saying he’d be a bad signing, he’d be our first choice for sure but I doubt he would be enough to keep us up or push us into the level we need to be at. If I didn’t make it clear above, i apologise. I think from a commercial standpoint the benefits of his signing do not outweigh the risks of turning off the new fan base we want to attract

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
nimblehippo (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 17:52
Quote:
rugbygibbo
I have my concerns about the signing from a commercial perspective. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the trial and it’s coverage, the fact is he’s now damaged goods with a bad reputation, particularly among young Irish people.
If the club are trying to draw a new fan base of that self same group into the new stadium in Brentford as well as reconnecting with the original family orientated west London set, I can’t see this as anything other than a big own goal. It’s a move that will put off exactly the sort of people that the club need to win over.

Were he a better player it might be worth the risk but sadly
I don’t think he’s going to be a world beater that will turn the side around. (Although very happy to be wrong!).

For me from a pure risk/ reward analysis the signing just doesn’t add up, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the situation

Most of the young Irish people I know feel pretty sorry for him and his Family, particularly the parents who apparently had to remortgage their house to pay for the legal fees.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 18:16
[m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk]

A link to the article referring to Ulster fans and season ticket holders taking out an ad in the Belfast Telegraph asking for both players to be re-instated. Sounds like they weren't too worried about dividing a fan base or turning away potential new supporters

The sooner he's announced the better IMO

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Derby Irish Fan (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 21:45
I have read this link with a certain amount of sadness and anger as we seem to want players who only have halo's as a qualification to play with us, the old saying comes to mind 'he who has not sinned cast the first stone, my partner and I will welcome him with open arms and look forward to seeing him dazzle and confuse the opposition



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/01/2019 22:00 by Derby Irish Fan.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
NickK (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 22:17
I would trust Les to have done his homework on this subject if the club is indeed truly considering this signing. With so many positives to take from today, in particular the first half, IMHO I would prefer to focus on next week and support the many players we currently have rather than the one we may or may not have.
Promotion is top prize but the chance of some silverware sounds attractive too 😊. Keep it going Irish.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
LI Bohemian (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 22:23
London Irish to the outsider seems to be a bit of a patriarchal set up, no ladies team, no women holding top positions and now signing Jackson, and some can't wait for him!

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
LI Bohemian (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 22:23
London Irish to the outsider seems to be a bit of a patriarchal set up, no ladies team, no women holding top positions and now signing Jackson, and some can't wait for him!

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
norg2072 (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 22:40
We have an adult ladies team, a youth girls team, and the chair of the ladies section is female!

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
LI Bohemian (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 22:47
I know , but to the outsider there is absolutely no reference to any of this information, why would it be a secret?
Down with the patriarchy!

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Lincs-Exile (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 22:54
Norg i have to admit i didn't know we had a Ladies section so possibly a bit more communication on the website wouldn't go amiss

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
norg2072 (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 23:25
It’s not secret, it’s because we are such a large club and the ladies section is part of the amateur club. The amateur side of the club (who play at Hazelwood) also run teams from minis all the way through to The LI Wild Geese (senior team playing in National 2 South). The Pros (London-Irish.com) and Amateurs (liarfc.co.uk) have separate websites, which I agree could be linked better!

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Steelman (IP Logged)
27 January, 2019 23:28
I have been interested and at times mildly amused by the debate,if that's the right word. Not all courting is done at country church tea dances, and city life has always featured the first night assignations,with both sexes up for the game.Any amount of those people, their judgement impaired by drink our drugs,could have found themselves in court ,the accused or the accusing.Was permission given or refused,a nightmare.
I'm sure K&K want to repatriate someone they know so well, though I'm not his greatest fan.He gets another chance,and that's a fairly Christian ethic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/01/2019 23:38 by Steelman.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
LI Bohemian (IP Logged)
28 January, 2019 10:57
Quote:
Steelman
I have been interested and at times mildly amused by the debate,if that's the right word. Not all courting is done at country church tea dances, and city life has always featured the first night assignations,with both sexes up for the game.Any amount of those people, their judgement impaired by drink our drugs,could have found themselves in court ,the accused or the accusing.Was permission given or refused,a nightmare.
I'm sure K&K want to repatriate someone they know so well, though I'm not his greatest fan.He gets another chance,and that's a fairly Christian ethic.

The alarm you can hear is called the patronising post alert!
Christian ethic?

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Griff (IP Logged)
28 January, 2019 15:28
I've stayed well clear of this one, although like every post here I have to read it from a moderator point-of-view.

SomersetExile was not wrong to bring this up - it's a big question. For me, I was of the same view, until I read the stories old hillbilly posted. I'd genuinely not heard anything about PJ apologising and that stopped me forgiving him and giving him a second chance but it appears he does actually grasp his failures and, from that point, I can't see any reason not to forgive and welcome a talented player to our club (if he does indeed come).

My only misgiving now is that the name London Irish would be connected to such a terrible event and that we'd get that association in every match report Jackson had a part in. I would hope others could start to forgive a young man a mistake and that the story would fade quickly - we'd certainly have it dragged-up for his first few appearances if he were to join.

Finally I would ask anyone posting here to respect other people opinions. You don't have to agree with them, that's the nature of discussion. If you can't discuss without vitriol then I suggest you find another place to post.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
28 January, 2019 15:30
The name Perpignan isn't connected to 'such a terrible event' is it?

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Griff (IP Logged)
28 January, 2019 15:33
Perpignan isn't in a country with the kind of press we have.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Bazzo (IP Logged)
28 January, 2019 15:34
Quote:
Griff
I've stayed well clear of this one, although like every post here I have to read it from a moderator point-of-view.
SomersetExile was not wrong to bring this up - it's a big question. For me, I was of the same view, until I read the stories old hillbilly posted. I'd genuinely not heard anything about PJ apologising and that stopped me forgiving him and giving him a second chance but it appears he does actually grasp his failures and, from that point, I can't see any reason not to forgive and welcome a talented player to our club (if he does indeed come).

My only misgiving now is that the name London Irish would be connected to such a terrible event and that we'd get that association in every match report Jackson had a part in. I would hope others could start to forgive a young man a mistake and that the story would fade quickly - we'd certainly have it dragged-up for his first few appearances if he were to join.

Finally I would ask anyone posting here to respect other people opinions. You don't have to agree with them, that's the nature of discussion. If you can't discuss without vitriol then I suggest you find another place to post.


Good words.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
28 January, 2019 15:37
I think you'll be surprised. If Jackson signs there might be a bit of chat, a couple of games there might be a bit of chat, then that's it. Forgive and forget, onwards and upwards, even the British press can flog a dead horse for only so long

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Luton Irish (IP Logged)
28 January, 2019 16:29
The Internet does exists down in Perpignan so if they want to check up on his history its all there!

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Shawshank (IP Logged)
28 January, 2019 17:31
Let’s not forget that the jury decided that they could not be sure that the ‘terrible event’ as alleged by the prosecution actually ever happened.

The defendants’ case, that it was consensual activity, seems to have been accepted.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Steelman (IP Logged)
28 January, 2019 21:08
Quote:
Shawshank
Let’s not forget that the jury decided that they could not be sure that the ‘terrible event’ as alleged by the prosecution actually ever happened.
The defendants’ case, that it was consensual activity, seems to have been accepted.
t
Thanks SS for making a better job of my patronising post.we weren't there ,we,ll
never ever know,so how can we have certain opinion one way or other. Found not guilty,
move on,wanna vote with your feet,do it.

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
yaballix (IP Logged)
29 January, 2019 16:56
So dismayed to see this post (the first on the thread).

I expect such sentiments in northern ireland, where I'm from, and where a sad element of morally indignants took to buying newspaper inches to vilify these young men, but I had hoped more from a more progressive rugby community who I would hope would look objectively at the issue, and identify that their only actual proven transgression was to send some admittedly ugly texts, and have them publically exposed.

You (SomersetExile) write that you understand that the men were found not guilty of the formal charges. In that case, enough said. Or should be. Anything associated with those charges needs to be set aside. The jury took relatively little time to aquite all accused of all charges. You say that "My issue is with his behaviour". In that case, Ugly texts aside (which were publically admitted and apologised for), then what behaviour are you referring to??? The rest of your post refers to extracts from newspaper reports and Whatsapp groups.

An unfortunate fact of life is that bad news and scandal travels quickly, and sells newspapers. Even more in Northern Ireland which offers a fertile environment for the spread of half truths and biased views.

Phrases that you repeat like "Paddy had such rough sex with the girl that night they found her blood in his bed" falls wholly into this category, and betrays your narrow mindedness.

The jury who evaluated the case found the activity to be consensual. Unless you were there, or have some unique insight to the events in question, then I suggest that Whether it was rough or otherwise should have NOTHING to do with how you or I or anyone consider these men as individuals.

Ditto the rest of your comments....,

"He and his friends in Ulster have for years been on the prowl for ‘Belfast sl*ts’ ‘Brazzers’ to ‘Spit roast’ "

"the language he and his friends use is nothing new, we all have seen groups of ‘lads’ in bars and clubs behaving appalling around women"

"It was not rape, but it was unpleasant and clearly nothing new to his group of friends"

"It was seen as so bad, both Ulster and Ireland paid him up and sent him on his way" of the character ass

Talk about the propogation of character assassination !!


These two talented players were big names sports stars, caught in a "juicy" scandal which was guaranteed to sell lots of column inches - and very much more so if the verdict had gone against them. The unfortunate young lady involved is not otherwise news worthy. There was little benefit to devote column inches to her testimony, which readers would quickly (as the jury obviously did) recognise as largely lacking credibility. But you seem only interested in the more "spicy" part.


Finally, when you really compound your condemnation of these lads, by saying " If they (Ulster and Ireland) don’t want him why do we?

Lets see if I can address that.

Oops, no need. You already did. "It makes rugby sense to sign him, I’ve seen him play for Ireland live, I have even met him after a match, he is a great 10 and we need one"

So what actually is your concern?

That he's a dangerous role model for our children ?

Again, if you accept that the only actual transgression that we can be certain of is a bunch of nasty texts and whatsapps.....

I am a reasonably stand up member of society, as are many of my friendship group, including solicitors, doctors, teachers and even a few police. I would shudder at the prospect if my, or their, children (same age as these young men) were ever to see the contents of the communiques that we exchange. I'm pretty sure my kids would think likewise about their social exchanges. The fact that you may exchange dark or intentionally shocking humour is rarely a strong indication of character. It's only ever meant to interest, or amuse, or maybe with between the younger people, to impress. I suggest that there are many in the LI community to whom this also applies. I have never known of the intent to be harmful.


You're worried about abuse from Gloucester fans?

If they are the type to be abusive, as a number of Glous. fans are renouned to be, then I'm sure it's not the sort of behaviour that Jackson, or any of us who have been long time Exiles fans, will worry about. They'll always find an excuse to be abusive. It's just a pity that the more open-minded, reasonable, rugby loving Glous fans dont make their disapproval of the more predjudiced minority more vocal. See what I did there.....


That the club will not sell any #10 shirts? I don't think the merchandise store will go into administration. If your moral indignation will not allow your child to wear a shirt representing his chosen player then that really is one of these difficult decisions that parents are sometime called upon to make. Kids young enough to wear player named shirts are unlikely to have a remote understanding of such moral dilemas



That the fans will stay away in droves and cause a commercial calamity??. Now we come to the big one, and the big unknown. Personally I suspect those rightious citizens who hang up their supporters boots because they share your moral indignation will be outnumber by a factor of about 10 to 1 by those new fans, and "floating" fans (remember our ground share with Quins) who come to see this great new asset to the club, especially in the new ground. Cant land 'em till you've hooked 'em .....

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
GHA (IP Logged)
29 January, 2019 17:03
Pretty comprehensive there, yaballix, but try not to be too dismayed, SomersetExile isn't exactly in the majority here

 
Re: Paddy Jackson Reports
Derby Irish Fan (IP Logged)
29 January, 2019 21:20
brilliant and worthy of a QC yaballix, the vast 99% will welcome him with open arms


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