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Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
Jonny_C (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 09:24

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
Alphacat (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 12:05
With all respect, the title of this post made it sound like it had been confirmed.

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
Ruckingood (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 12:08
The idea of a playoff makes far more sense than automatic relegation. Its gives teams like Ealing a year or so to build and have a fair crack. If they cant beat the bottom team then they should not be promoted.. just my opinion

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
Alphacat (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 12:11
Quote:
Ruckingood
The idea of a playoff makes far more sense than automatic relegation. Its gives teams like Ealing a year or so to build and have a fair crack. If they cant beat the bottom team then they should not be promoted.. just my opinion

But in the scenario that the championship team does beat the team above, that team will then struggle to get back up again as they have to go through this same system that was supposed to protect them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/05/2019 12:12 by Alphacat.

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
tatthecraic2 (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 12:48
Quote:
Alphacat
Quote:
Ruckingood
The idea of a playoff makes far more sense than automatic relegation. Its gives teams like Ealing a year or so to build and have a fair crack. If they cant beat the bottom team then they should not be promoted.. just my opinion

But in the scenario that the championship team does beat the team above, that team will then struggle to get back up again as they have to go through this same system that was supposed to protect them.


I think it logically still stands. Of you're in relegation position AND can't beat a championship side. Then there is no way you get to stay in the Pram.

I think it's enough protection and enough incentive for championship teams to work

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
tatthecraic2 (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 12:48
Quote:
Alphacat
Quote:
Ruckingood
The idea of a playoff makes far more sense than automatic relegation. Its gives teams like Ealing a year or so to build and have a fair crack. If they cant beat the bottom team then they should not be promoted.. just my opinion

But in the scenario that the championship team does beat the team above, that team will then struggle to get back up again as they have to go through this same system that was supposed to protect them.


I think it logically still stands. Of you're in relegation position AND can't beat a championship side. Then there is no way you get to stay in the Pram.

I think it's enough protection and enough incentive for championship teams to work

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
NMB (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 13:00
My issue with this is that there will not be sufficient time for both teams to prepare for the following season without their status confirmed until the very end of the season. The championship playoffs have shown us the detrimental impact it has had on the promoted team in the past. And now if you are bottom of the Prem you are less likely to prevent this happening in following seasons even if you do win the playoff.

Also playoffs are one off games where anything can happen so it doesn't necessarily stand that the winner is the team best placed to compete in the Prem the following season

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
Griff (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 13:02
But it's effectively ring-fencing. We got rid of the play-off in the Championship because it was almost impossible to recruit as a promoted side because you don't know which league you're going to be in. This would repeat that problem.

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
AlecW (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 13:17
In previous years, it was even more skewed to the Premiership / Div 1 club.

In 1996-97, Orrell and West Hartlepool (remember them?) were relegated and Bristol and London Irish (9th and 10th respectively) went in to the playoffs. In the Championship, Richmond and Newcastle (1st and 2nd) were promoted and Coventry & Bedford (3rd and 4th) went in to the playoffs. The playoffs were over two legs, home and away and Bristol beat Bedford 39-23 (aggregate over two legs) and Irish beat Coventry 42-23 (tho we lost the away leg 16-14), so both stayed up.


In 1997-98, there was no relegation, with the top two clubs from Premiership Two automatically promoted (Bedford and West Hartlepool), increasing Premiership 1 to 14 clubs. The bottom two in Premiership 1 played 3rd and 4th in Premiership Two over two legs. London Scottish beat Bristol over two legs and were promoted, Bristol being relegated. London Irish beat Rotherham over two legs and stayed in Prem 1.

I remember the Rotherham game at Sunbury well. Lovely Spring day ... hugely tense in the 1st half, but Irish pulled away in the 2nd, despite the Rotherham captain (Mike Umaga, elder brother of Tana) playing like a one man hit squad all game.

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
SimonW (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 14:01
Think this way forward as problems imagine a team gets cut off at the foot of the prem so what do they do knowing their future will be decide by a play off game (s) they could rest players / avoid injurys so they have the best chance in the play off - this also could be the scenario where a championship side is well clear / cant be caught & decide to do the same. Both actions will have an effect on matches & giving false results - not great for the both leagues creditability.
Better to have some sort of merit table based on say rolling 3 years performance where the team which continually under performs would be involved in some sort of play off/gets relagated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/05/2019 16:28 by SimonW.

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
Exile44 (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 14:49
With all due respect to the Championship, it does seem to me that ring-fencing is the most sensible option.

At this point in time, there just isn't the volume of competitive clubs at that level to warrant a promotion / relegation system - the relegated team invariably comes right back up and the promoted team (until we finally cut the playoffs) had usually gone straight back down. A playoff system is ring-fencing in all but name, but leaves open the possibility of a team coming up by fluke and being woefully ill-prepared.

The simple fact is, there are 13 Premiership teams and a 12-team league.

I would ring-fence the Premiership at 14 teams, cutting out the cup entirely to allow for extra match weekends. In terms of a 14th team, I suppose Ealing is the fairest option but given regional development, brand & the new stadium coming - I'd love to bring Cornish Pirates up.

In the future, it would then be up to a Championship club to improve their infrastructure, their finances and consistently show they are above Championship level to earn an invite to join the Premiership.

Then, if for arguments sake another two clubs are added at some point in the future (to have a 16-team league), you could have a 15-game season where everybody plays once (alternating years between home & away) after which the Top 8 become their own league and play for the playoffs and the bottom 8 become their own league, which would be a 22-game season still.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/05/2019 14:52 by Exile44.

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
PV (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 16:33
16 teams
2 regional leagues
North and Midlands

Leicester
Saints
Sale
CH team 1 (Newcastle - prem vote so mandated)
Wasps
Worcester
Glaws
CH team 2 (Leeds - if viable)

SW and SE
Quins
Sarries
Bristol
Bath
Exeter
Irish
CH team 3 (Ealing)
CH team 4 (Pirates)

Home away in respective leagues - 14 games
QF, SF, Final for top 4 from each playing top 4 from other league

Bottom from each league play off for relegation

Old style cup with all leagues involved

Top 3 from each league get into Champs cup

Less games, more local rivalry, more clubs with a chance to progress

A fairer outcome for all

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
Exile44 (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 16:42
Quote:
PV
16 teams
2 regional leagues
North and Midlands

Leicester
Saints
Sale
CH team 1 (Newcastle - prem vote so mandated)
Wasps
Worcester
Glaws
CH team 2 (Leeds - if viable)

SW and SE
Quins
Sarries
Bristol
Bath
Exeter
Irish
CH team 3 (Ealing)
CH team 4 (Pirates)

Home away in respective leagues - 14 games
QF, SF, Final for top 4 from each playing top 4 from other league

Bottom from each league play off for relegation

Old style cup with all leagues involved

Top 3 from each league get into Champs cup

Less games, more local rivalry, more clubs with a chance to progress

A fairer outcome for all

So would the bottom in each league play-off for relegation against the Top North & midlands team and the top SW & SW team in the Championship?

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
HMRH (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 19:58
Telegraph now reporting that proposal very unlikely to get through and RFU would face “internal revolt” if they took it to AGM.

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
Alphacat (IP Logged)
14 May, 2019 22:19
Is that the 13 team league or promotion playoffs side of it?

13-14 team league is necessary in my opinion, a playoff series doesn't need to happen immediately though.

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
HMRH (IP Logged)
15 May, 2019 06:17
Premiership close to becoming 13-club division

[www.thetimes.co.uk]

Suggests that even if RFU management board approves it needs ratification by PRL who haven’t yet voted for it and are not unanimous and secondly by RFU council where Champiobship clubs will lobby strongly against it

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
HMRH (IP Logged)
16 May, 2019 06:12
Owen Slot in The Times reports that the proposal was discussed but is felt “to need more work” prior to presentation to the RFU Council in June

Not backed in other words

 
Re: Premiership relegation to end 2019/2020
waltham (IP Logged)
20 May, 2019 17:35
Meeting oi June 14th to ratify apparently: Daily Mail - The Gain Line


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