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Injured Players
ComeAllWithin.co.uk (IP Logged)
13 August, 2009 17:36
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Injured Players
The Prof (IP Logged)
13 August, 2009 17:36
Just updated with the news that Olly is out for 6-9 months after a knee reconstruction sad smiley

 
Re: Injured Players
akb1 (IP Logged)
13 August, 2009 18:57
I think Mike Brown is going to be out for a few weeks I believe he has had surgery on his hand.

 
Re: Injured Players
Pawlo (IP Logged)
15 August, 2009 12:29
Spoke with Brownie last night... hand-op was bigger than initially thought, so still strapped & recovering. He thinks/hopes that he will be back in October

 
Re: Injured Players
Vixen (IP Logged)
15 August, 2009 22:36
Quote:
Pawlo
Spoke with Brownie last night... hand-op was bigger than initially thought, so still strapped & recovering. He thinks/hopes that he will be back in October

Ditto said same to me



http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_5167.gif

 
Re: Injured Players
Angostura (IP Logged)
16 August, 2009 12:22
Now need to add Karl Dickson to that list with a broken leg.



RESPECT THE REF - NO REF, NO GAME!

 
Re: Injured Players
Newish Quin (IP Logged)
16 August, 2009 14:30
Did Karl break his leg at the sevens?

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
16 August, 2009 18:11
Will Skinner appeared to be limping while undertaking his waterboy duties on Friday night.

 
Re: Injured Players
The Prof (IP Logged)
18 August, 2009 11:48
Updated

 
Re: Injured Players
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
18 August, 2009 11:50
2 months for Brown! sad smiley

Only 6 weeks for Karl's leg is good news though, I was expecting worse.

So, without Tom and Brown, I wonder who'll get the nod at FB.

 
Re: Injured Players
Stomalomalus (IP Logged)
18 August, 2009 11:55
Quote:
Jammy Git
2 months for Brown! sad smiley
Only 6 weeks for Karl's leg is good news though, I was expecting worse.

So, without Tom and Brown, I wonder who'll get the nod at FB.

Yeah, howcome so long for Mike Brown? Thought it looked quite precautionary...

 
Re: Injured Players
poorfour (IP Logged)
04 September, 2009 14:50
Should we add "Tom Williams / Blood injury / 4 months"? If that isn't, ahem, rubbing salt in the wound?

 
Re: Injured Players
will_quin (IP Logged)
04 September, 2009 14:57
Just over a month for Brownie if he's expected to be fit for Toulouse.........

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
05 September, 2009 12:40
What exactly happened to Mike Brown? I know his hand was getting more heavily strapped as last season went on, but what exactly was the problem?

 
Re: Injured Players
The Prof (IP Logged)
06 September, 2009 12:15
The op was bigger than expected I think

 
Re: Injured Players
mikepw (IP Logged)
06 September, 2009 14:51
Anything from yesterday? How's Gonzo2?

 
Re: Injured Players
Vixen (IP Logged)
06 September, 2009 20:34
Brownie back October so he tells me anyway.



http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_5167.gif

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
20 September, 2009 10:34
Any ideas on JTH, or the two Gonzos?

 
Re: Injured Players
AnnieQuinn (IP Logged)
20 September, 2009 13:31
Spoke to JTH yesterday - scan today apparently his shoulder "popped".... not good.

 
Re: Injured Players
Vixen (IP Logged)
20 September, 2009 20:19
Brownie says he should be back next week if not for BAth at home. GOnzo has an embarressing injury Birdman explained it erm his got a erm cut somewhere painfuil if ya a man heh oh n Birdman thinks he back next week too from what he said hope helps those who need to know and yes Jordy dislocated shoulder it seems.



http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_5167.gif

 
Re: Injured Players
Nicksb (IP Logged)
20 September, 2009 22:52
Who is Birdman? And what's Gonzo done to his John Thomas?

 
Re: Injured Players
21 September, 2009 05:00
Steve So'oialo was in a cast after the Sarries game and said he was to have a scan. Mark Lambert and Jim Evans had hurt their back/shoulders too.

The matchday programme says Brown should be back for the Bath game.

 
Re: Injured Players
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
21 September, 2009 11:01
Birdman = Camacho

 
Re: Injured Players
21 September, 2009 11:17
Will the last player standing please put on a shirt! Isn't Andress crocked as well?

 
Re: Injured Players
Rocker (IP Logged)
21 September, 2009 11:25
Will we actually have 15 players fit on Friday? I'm thinking bad thoughts about the fates angry smiley Maybe we are going to have a season like Wasps last year. Half the squad out through injury....

 
Re: Injured Players
Vixen (IP Logged)
21 September, 2009 20:48
Gonzo has a bad cut on his erm not john thomas next to it assume from a stud I dunno Birdmans story lol but he said it somewhat funnier but I cant wrote that here.
Yup Birdman is Gonzo 2, what the lads call him according to Stretts cos he flys down the wing.



http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_5167.gif

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 10:59
Oh dear... how long is JTH likely to be out for? Could we be looking at Stretts/Ugo at centre... and maybe OL-H on the wing? The GP's fastest backline! If we can get some ball...

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 11:09
Well we could be looking at this backline on Friday -

9. Care
10. Clegg
11. Lowe
12. Masson
13. Monye
14. Strettle
15. Evans

or

9. Care
10. Clegg
11. Monye
12. Masson
13. Lowe
14. Strettle
15. Evans

or

9. Care
10. Evans
11. Camacho
12. Masson
13. Lowe
14. Strettle
15. Monye

or.....


Given the penchant for players doing well the first time they play against their former clubs, perhaps Clegg will get a start at 10 with Nev at 15.

 
Re: Injured Players
22 September, 2009 11:12
I'd play

9 Care
10 Clegg

11 Monye
12 Masson
13 Lowe
14 Strettle
15 Evans

Everyone in a position they feel comfortable in (Masson's best work has come at 12 in the past). Luvenyali to cover 12, Drauinui to cover out wide, Evans to cover 10, Ugo 15 etc.

 
Re: Injured Players
Nicksb (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 11:25
Isn't Stretts injured too?

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 11:29
Drauinui for Stretts then. Chisholm on the bench.

 
Re: Injured Players
22 September, 2009 11:43
If I take my boots will I get a game?



"Last one in's an Offiziere. No offence Sir."

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 12:12
No disrespect, but I'd prefer Tosh on the bench. He seems to be struggling. If Gonzo 2 is fit, I'd slot Ugo or Stretts into centre, Nev at 15, Clegg at 10.

Would still love to see Ollie Lindsay-Hague tearing up the GP though!

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 12:22
No disrespect to Ugo or Stretts but they are not inside centres and have never played there. Tosh is and has.

 
Re: Injured Players
caterham quin (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 14:06
Daily Telegraph reports today (sorry, found someone else's!) that Stretts is injured with his foot again. We need Gonzo2/Birdman. I think we have a problem in the centre without Gonzo1.

 
Re: Injured Players
Quin Like Flint (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 15:09
Just to come back to the subject of the thread, does anyone know the reason for Danny Care's absence on Saturday? Does he have an injury?

 
Re: Injured Players
Safri-quin (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 15:16
DC has a strained/bruised wrist I believe. No idea how long it will sideline him for

 
Re: Injured Players
Nicksb (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 16:30
Stretts is fine apparently - its not his foot and he'll be fit for Bath. According to the Evening Standard anyway!

I think I read on here that the Care Bear will fit for Bath too.

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 16:41
Never mind Bath, I'm worried about Newcastle right now!

 
Re: Injured Players
Nicksb (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 17:35
Good point QP - one game at a time!

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 19:19
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
No disrespect to Ugo or Stretts but they are not inside centres and have never played there. Tosh is and has.

That may be, QP. But Ugo as a winger slotted in at centre very well. Meanwhile Tosh, centre though he is, is struggling.

What to do? Put a top class player in an unfamiliar position, or leave a second-rate player in a key position?

 
Re: Injured Players
ArchQuin (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 20:06
agree Quinky - Tosh is a good back up but I would not start with him -

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 20:41
But I believe 12 is Tosh's preferred centre position, and I would guess it's a much tougher position to play for a winger than outside centre is. You won't convince me!

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 20:43
Further to that, I would prefer Seb Jewell to play 12 than Ugo or Stretts.

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinny Quin Quin (IP Logged)
22 September, 2009 21:35
Spot on QP:

9 Care
10 Clegg
11 Camacho
12 Jewell (JTH injured)
13 Monye (otherwise we'd have a Clegg-Jewell-Lowe axis - too inexperienced, surely?)
14 Lowe (assuming Stretts is injured)
15 Evans



QQQ

 
Re: Injured Players
Cocoquin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2009 08:14
Ugo has played 13 against the Not Nots (1 - 2 seasons ago?) and picked up many plaudits from Barnes and S Jones for his tackling of Mapusua...

His expereiece would help either Seb Jewell or Tosh; and given the curent state of affairs we could really do with Tosh re-discovering his form of 2 seasons ago...

 
Re: Injured Players
23 September, 2009 08:44
I say again, two seasons back when Masson got a run at 12 he started to look comfortable in the position and his stepping (a little of which was on evidence last weekend) helped him in the tight spaces at 12. It's wasted at 13 and I am fed of of shoving players into wrong positions. I would therefore rather see him there than any international wing.

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2009 12:46
But can we afford to keep giving players game time, in the hope they will rediscover their form? Short-term, playing a Lions winger out of position would be a good stop gap. Who knows, we might even find Ugo is as good a centre as he is a winger.

 
Re: Injured Players
Stomalomalus (IP Logged)
23 September, 2009 13:13
Quote:
Quinky Kin
But can we afford to keep giving players game time, in the hope they will rediscover their form? Short-term, playing a Lions winger out of position would be a good stop gap. Who knows, we might even find Ugo is as good a centre as he is a winger.

Yes, outside centre. But not inside. He doesn't have the hands or the right type of step to be effective. You'd basically be nullifying his effectiveness, and the teams. Plus, while he wouldn't let anyone down, his defensive alignment would be appaling. It would be a terrible idea IMO. I reckon Tiesi could do it, but he isn't fit either. The choice is Clegg, NEv, Masson or Jewell for me. Not a great choice to have, but we have to do something with it.

The most important thing is to work out a game plan that works with the fit players best attributes in mind. Because of the forward injuries, keeping the ball in hand, and limiting the kicking game would probably be a good idea. I would also have Ugo on the wing, coming in to take first phase ball at 12 often. Get him running at the 10/12 channel, use his strength to break the gain line as with Jordan, then quickly spread the ball out towards the wing and Stretts/Camacho/Lowe. They all have pace to burn, and if the 10 and 12 are sucked in, then that will leave space. We need some proper tactics.

 
Re: Injured Players
23 September, 2009 17:56
Clegg did something interesting when he came on against Sarries, which was a couple of grubber kicks through their defensive line which we all groaned at, at the time because they didn't come off. However, on reflection, a little inventiveness to get round the suffocating (and boring) rush defence system is actually to be applauded methinks?(Sm33)

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
25 September, 2009 12:30
Stoma,

I wouldn't be too quick to suggest Ugo's defence would not be right. As previously mentioned, he slipped in at outside centre superbly. Whilst I accept that Tosh may be a specialist centre, my point is that he just isn't making the grade right now. He has played well in the past, but not for a long time. We don't have the luxury of being able to rely on him for a full game.

I hope Tosh recaptures his form, as he did show a lot of potential. But how long do you stick with a losing formula?

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
25 September, 2009 12:54
QK

You don't seem to be making the distinction between 12 and 13.

 
Re: Injured Players
25 September, 2009 12:55
Quote:
deadlyfrom5yardsout
Clegg did something interesting when he came on against Sarries, which was a couple of grubber kicks through their defensive line which we all groaned at, at the time because they didn't come off. However, on reflection, a little inventiveness to get round the suffocating (and boring) rush defence system is actually to be applauded methinks?(Sm33)

Grubber kicks are an effective weapon, but not when you have Ugo and Lowe outside you, some space to work in and their lineout is going absolutely perfectly.

 
Re: Injured Players
Ricky T (IP Logged)
25 September, 2009 12:55
When is Tiesi due back from injury? He doesn't feature in the table at the top.

 
Re: Injured Players
Fatbstard (IP Logged)
25 September, 2009 12:55
As posted on the "Team's Up" thread -

Look, I'm a bit worried about Tosh at 12, Tom Guest is big and fast with good hands, why dont we start him there? And Lowe is a bit inexperienced, so why dont we play Tani at hooker and play Botha at 13, he's quick and got great hands too.

While we're at, I dont think Lambert's really delivering at the moment and Nick Easter is really strong and quite chunky, lets play him at Tight Head.

It never ceases to amaze me why we dont just pick the players with the most caps and GP experience and just fit them in wherever we can.

(Sm164)

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
25 September, 2009 23:04
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
QK
You don't seem to be making the distinction between 12 and 13.

I know there is a difference QP. But you seem to assume that because Ugo is an awesome winger and a pretty fine fullback, then he can't possibly play at 12. Tell me, has a world class inside centre never managed to also be a top class winger as well?

 
Re: Injured Players
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
26 September, 2009 14:55
I'm trying to think of some and only Tana Umaga springs to mind. Most wingers simply don't have the hands (or the bulk if you're going that way), the decision making, or the all-round game required for 12.

Most top 12s would be pretty rubbish wings; I think most wings would be pretty rubbish 12s. Ugo's pace would be much reduced as an asset at 12 and the pressure would be on the weaker parts of his game.

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
26 September, 2009 15:23
There are countless examples of players who have excelled at the highest level, in very different positions. Wings/fullbacks become top class flankers for example. You even quote a winger who has excelled as a centre. It seems strange that people think it won't work, just because it won't. Would those same people have doubted Ugo's ability at outside centre? He didn't do too badly there.

Bulk wouldn't be a problem for Ugo - he's a big strong guy. I also think his burst of pace would be a great line breaker.

Anyway, it's all academic. It's not likely to happen.

 
Re: Injured Players
Heath Quinn (IP Logged)
26 September, 2009 15:48
Tana Umanga was an outside centre, so he does count.

 
Re: Injured Players
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
26 September, 2009 16:17
QK,

In the pro era I am really struggling to think of players who played such different positions effectively. I know you say there are countless ones - can you give some examples?

Ugo is a winger through and through. He's effective (sometimes) at 13 because of his size and pace but 12 is a decision making role that he has no experience of. It'd be a serious waste of a British Lion!

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
26 September, 2009 17:46
QK

I haven't assumed Ugo couldn't possibly play at inside centre, but I don't think it's worth the gamble when we've got Tosh whose favoured position is 12.

If you can name a specialist winger who has played effectively at 12 then go ahead! I can't think of one, apart from Umaga.

10 and 12 are reasonably interchangeable positions - perhaps you'd like to see Ugo given a go at 10 should Nev and Clegg ever both be injured.

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
27 September, 2009 00:04
I can think of a few cases where players have excelled in very different positions. Going back a few years, JPR Williams was a gifted fullback... who also played flanker for Wales. Not that long ago Eric Rush played wing for the ABs... and also flanker.

Would Ugo make a good 10 or 12? I don't know. Do you know for sure? Maybe it's unlikely, but then you forget that Ugo was originally considered a one-dimensional winger; since then he's bulked up a bit, vastly improved his defence, as well as his game reading, adn now he kicks from hand excellently.

The days where a player had to a certain "type" have now gone. Hookers don't need to be short and stocky; props range from short to very tall. Look at the finest wingers of recent years - Jonah Lomu, Shane Williams, Bryan Habana - all they had in common was sheer pace.

And yes, it would be a waste of a Lions winger to pop him in at 12 for the sake of it. But in times of need anything is worth a go, and you never know, he might just prove himself in that shirt as well.

 
Re: Injured Players
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
27 September, 2009 13:01
Things were a bit different in JPR's day!

Defending at 12 is an entirely different beast to doing so out wide, as well. None of Lomu, Ickle or Habana would be good 12s either winking smiley

Tosh isn't playing well but we need someone at 12 and picking someone in their correct position has to be the best option. I'd still like to see Seb Jewell come into the reckoning too.

 
Re: Injured Players
Stomalomalus (IP Logged)
27 September, 2009 16:35
Quote:
Jammy Git
QK,
In the pro era I am really struggling to think of players who played such different positions effectively. I know you say there are countless ones - can you give some examples?

Ugo is a winger through and through. He's effective (sometimes) at 13 because of his size and pace but 12 is a decision making role that he has no experience of. It'd be a serious waste of a British Lion!

There are two that spring to mind for me. Jamie Roberts and Gareth Thomas. Borth of these, however, were, and are, always seen as a centre playing on the wing to gain experience/fill in for injured players.

Ugo's main skills are pace, power, kicking from hand and positioning on the shoulder. He doesn't have the best hands in the world - as evidenced by the dropped tries the Welsh were ribbing him for in the Lions. As the most important thing for an IC to have, this is quite a disadvantage...

 
Re: Injured Players
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
27 September, 2009 21:51
Roberts is an excellent suggestion! Mind you, I have no idea how good he was on the wing, but he seems to have the pace for it. Certainly on the Lions tour it looked like he could do absolutely everything.

Gareth Thomas was, IMNSHO, a rubbish 12. He definitely divided opinion in the Welsh supporters ranks when he was played there.

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
30 September, 2009 07:15
Quote:
Jammy Git
Things were a bit different in JPR's day!
Defending at 12 is an entirely different beast to doing so out wide, as well. None of Lomu, Ickle or Habana would be good 12s either winking smiley

Tosh isn't playing well but we need someone at 12 and picking someone in their correct position has to be the best option. I'd still like to see Seb Jewell come into the reckoning too.

Indeed they were, JG! But my point is that exceptional players have been known to play in extremely diverse positions. In fact, I recall instances where the ABs used to pop Lomu into the back row at scrum time...

Having said that, I recall a game at the Stoop where we had a raft of blood subs, and our back row for one scrum included Keith Wood and the mighty Mark Mapletoft! Only one scrum, thankfully!

 
Re: Injured Players
poorfour (IP Logged)
30 September, 2009 08:36
I seem to recall that during one injury-hit period at Gloucester, James Forrester made a decent fist of playing at IC, and Ben Cohen turned out for Northampton at OC (and made a better job of it than he was doing at winger at the time).

However, both of these were stop-gaps and neither of them looked likely to make a permanent switch.

Possibly the best example of someone who has played at the highest level in multiple positions in the professional era is Mike Catt, who played internationally in every position from fly half backwards. I'm a little surprised to be the first to mention him.

The 2003 RWC semi final saw him wearing 12 and playing interchangeably with both Wilko and Will. Of course, those were two players who were both unconventional in their chosen positions - but I think that in a more conventional line-up Catt would have been able to slot in at any of the three positions.

All of which said, he's probably an anomaly. There aren't many players who could match his all-round skill set and rugby brain - and even then, he wasn't quite good enough in any one area to be the nailed-on choice in any of his positions for most of his career.

A quick search on Wikipedia also lists Matt Giteau, Chris Paterson, Francois Steyn and Adam Ashley-Cooper as having caps in multiple positions. That's a pretty select and exceptional group of rugby brains, even if you don't discount Paterson (as a fly half who is regularly forced to play out of position by Scotland's selection woes)

 
Re: Injured Players
Rocker (IP Logged)
30 September, 2009 09:23
Mike Catt is a good call, but anyone playing with shaggy was always going to wear 12 and play 13!?! Didn't Lewsey get a few caps at centre as well as wing and full back? Stop gap I know but....

 
Re: Injured Players
Blank436 (IP Logged)
30 September, 2009 09:31
Jamie Roberts always looked exceptional on the wing - <smug mode> picked by me for the Lions after 2 or 3 games for the Blues </smug mode>.

Austin Healey has, iirc, been capped for England at every position from 9-15?

The winger/flanker thing isn't really possible in the pro era unless utter emergency.

Bergamasco as a scrum half was hardly a resounding success.

Gareth Thomas played at flanker when Wales were attacking for a time to allow one of the back row (Powell?) to stand in the 3/4s.

Wilkinson played at 13, 12 and 10 iirc - but that was very much to bring him into international rugby slowly.

Umaga only moved inside as he got slower but is a fairly good example.

Moving a winger to 13 works if you want to play a certain way. Moving a big lump who can offload to inside centre works if you want to play a certain way. It's more about the style of play than anything else.

As an exercise - the Quins out of position XV:

Monye
Guest
Strettle
Brown
Lowe
Williams
Skinner
er...
Croall
Jones
Easter
Robson
Percival
Botha
Evans J


Is Andy Robinson available?

 
Re: Injured Players
Blank436 (IP Logged)
30 September, 2009 09:33
I think Catt and Greenwood played whatever the centre equivalent of left and right is a lot of the time.

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
01 October, 2009 17:32
Lewsey was capped at centre, wing fullback and flyhalf.

Yes, there are players out there who have been capped in multiple positions. Giteau and Steyn (both among the world's finest backs IMO) were both mentioned. I would honestly put Ugo in the same class.

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
01 October, 2009 18:00
I see the debate has shifted from wingers who have played at inside centre to players who have played in different positions.

I think Umaga is the only player mentioned who has moved from wing to centre, although I don't think he played much at 12.

Jamie Roberts is, I believe, a centre who has also played wing, so not the same.

 
Re: Injured Players
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
02 October, 2009 12:26
Thinking about it, didn't Matt Burke play at fullback and at centre? Or am I getting confused again!

 
Re: Injured Players
The Prof (IP Logged)
04 October, 2009 14:01
A bit of an update and also info on when the bans end

 
Re: Injured Players
harlequinade (IP Logged)
13 October, 2009 09:25
telegraph

according to this list in the telegraph we only have jth injured as at now

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