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Re: England 22
Heath Quinn (IP Logged)
22 February, 2012 19:20
Quite agree NLB.

Could I also add, I, like everyone wanted youngsters to be given their head.

Lolcaster seems to have confused inexperience with age. I can see him now, "Botha and Dowson have no caps so they're bound to be around for another 2 or 3 world cups".

 
Re: England 22
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
22 February, 2012 21:02
Quote:
Heath Quinn
There is truth is what you say, and I certainly wouldn't want him trying to take a drop kick from inside his own half. But centre field, just outside the twenty two? Either he wasn't thinking clearly, or he does not have enough confidence in himself.
If the later is true, then he should have waved Murphy up, rather than keeping the forwards going through phase after phase, risking knock ons or turn overs at each breakdown.

Well none of us know what calls were being made during that last passage of play.

 
Re: England 22
kevin (IP Logged)
22 February, 2012 21:34
Quote:
mid_gen
Quote:
Grump
Mightn't be a bad one to miss. I can see Stretts being trampled under foot for a start.

Indeed....I'd be happier with Ugo lining up against that backline.

Blimey! You've come out with some classics on this thread!

 
Re: England 22
mid_gen (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 02:07
What? That I'm not convinced by Brown as an international 15, and I'd be more comfortable seeing Ugo rather than Stretts in the line when messrs North/Roberts/Davies/Cuthbert et al get up a head of steam?

I'm not comfortable about the prospect of North running at Stretts....not at all.

 
Re: England 22
mabosa ritchie (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 07:32
Ugo has lost about two yards of pace.He is out of the top ten as regards wingers atm .take off the rose tinted glasses.Mike Brown on the other hand.As a Scot , i am laughing my nuts off that he is not selected.As a quins supporter i smell a tigers /saints conspiracy

 
Re: England 22
Heath Quinn (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 08:17
That is of course true QP, but you could apply that remark to practically everything that happens on a rugby pitch, or behind closed doors in any club.

On that basis, should we close down the site and cease all rugby related discussions?

Or can we carry on, basing our opinions on what we see and hear? With everyone knowing that things posted on a supporters forum are not facts. Or do I need to qualify every statement with some sort of disclaimer?

 
Re: England 22
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 08:34
Quote:
Either he wasn't thinking clearly, or he does not have enough confidence in himself.
If the later is true, then he should have waved Murphy up, rather than keeping the forwards going through phase after phase, risking knock ons or turn overs at each breakdown.

Nick Evans' last minute drop goal against Stade came after 30 phases during which he (at least twice) turned down the drop goal and ran himself before he finally went for it.

I just think it's possible that there are more than two possible reasons for what happened with Flood.



BB

 
Re: England 22
Stooperman (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 08:41
Quote:
Brown Bottle
Quote:
Either he wasn't thinking clearly, or he does not have enough confidence in himself.
If the later is true, then he should have waved Murphy up, rather than keeping the forwards going through phase after phase, risking knock ons or turn overs at each breakdown.

Nick Evans' last minute drop goal against Stade came after 30 phases during which he (at least twice) turned down the drop goal and ran himself before he finally went for it.

I just think it's possible that there are more than two possible reasons for what happened with Flood.

First, read your penultimate paragraph again. Nick Evans dropped the goal, he didn't stand aside for Mike Brown to take it, nor look for orders from Will Skinner.

Second, check the Tigers board. They all acknowledge that Flood hates taking drop goals, and is no good at it. There's even a thread on whether its due to his legs being too long!!!!

The fact is, its an acknowledged weakness in his game which a 10 can't afford to have at international level. Think 2003 RWC final for a start.

 
Re: England 22
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 09:01
Quote:
First, read your penultimate paragraph again. Nick Evans dropped the goal, he didn't stand aside for Mike Brown to take it, nor look for orders from Will Skinner.

I was referring to this bit - " rather than keeping the forwards going through phase after phase, risking knock ons or turn overs at each breakdown." No-one had a problem with Nick Evans doing that. That's all.



BB

 
Re: England 22
Heath Quinn (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 09:11
BB, of course there is more than one possible explanation, there almost always is.

But there are some noticeable differences between Evans against Stade and Flood on Sunday.

The conditions, pouring with rain and heavy under foot for the Stade game, bright, sunny and dry for the Tigers game.

Evans was looking for a drop goal from a lot further out than Flood, rejected possession from Care as he didn't appear to be able find firm footing. While from the same distance Flood didn't even drop into the pocket to test the ground, or get a sight.

When Evans ran from the pocket, it might have been because he saw a gap, he certainly got through two. Flood did not get through any gap.

Where I think Flood went wrong, was not his decision to turn inside when he thought he might get charged down, but his reluctance to get into the pocket earlier.

Of course, if Murphy is the designated drop kicker, then he should have been there earlier. Another possibility is that Cockerill has dropped the ball, and despite having a fly half who is known not to be a natural goal kicker, see Tigers board, had not prepared the team for such an event, and Murphy had to think on his feet.

But to get back to my original point, QP suggested that it might have been Floods call to bring Murphy up for the Drop Kick. I don't believe this to be the case, as they should have done this earlier, and once Murphy did step up, why did Flood stay in the pocket for a short while, before slowly returning to the line.

To my mind, he did not have the body language of someone who had made a decisive call.



PS

I do know that none of the above is definitely a fact, and only the players / coaches involved will know the facts. I am also aware that there are other options on how things may have happened. But on the evidence available, I believe this is how events unfolded. I am not saying that any other views are definitely wrong, and if more evidence or a better argued opinion is brought forward, I reserve the right to change my opinion.

 
Re: England 22
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 09:20
That disclaimer's not bad for a first draft!

 
Re: England 22
Nicksb (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 09:27
Are you a lawyer HQ?!

 
Re: England 22
mid_gen (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 09:30
Quote:
mabosa ritchie
Ugo has lost about two yards of pace.He is out of the top ten as regards wingers atm .take off the rose tinted glasses.Mike Brown on the other hand.As a Scot , i am laughing my nuts off that he is not selected.As a quins supporter i smell a tigers /saints conspiracy

I've not seen a lot of Sharples, how is he defensively? Perhaps JSD? I don't get see a lot of AP rugby since moving to HK so don't know who the form wingers, at least defensively are. Highlights only show up their attacking prowess! I think that to win on Saturday the first thing we have to do is stop the big Welsh backs on the gain line. I'm happy with the likely Barritt/Tuilagi midfield but I'm going to be having palpitations when Stretts is lining up a tackle!

 
Re: England 22
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 09:36
Ok, you've done me in, HQ. smiling smiley



BB

 
Re: England 22
Elecquin (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 10:31
According to the RFU website Mike Brown is on the subs bench again - so why release him earlier in the week?

Great for Mike though and well deserved

 
Re: England 22
The Kid (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 10:34
Foden; Ashton, Tuilagi, Barritt, Strettle; Farrell, Dickson; Corbisiero, Hartley, Cole, Botha, Parling, Croft, Robshaw (c), Morgan.

REPLACEMENTS: Webber, Stevens, Lawes, Dowson, Youngs, Flood, Brown.

Apart from the second row, which looks @#$%& weak, that's probably the best side he could have picked. Stick Lawes and Palmer in the engine room and that's a team you can judge fairly.

Will be interesting to see how Farrell goes at 10.

 
Re: England 22
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 10:39
Quote:
Elecquin
According to the RFU website Mike Brown is on the subs bench again - so why release him earlier in the week?
Great for Mike though and well deserved

They thought Charlie Hodgson would recover but he hasn't.



BB

 
Re: England 22
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 11:41
Quote:
Apart from the second row, which looks @#$%& weak, that's probably the best side he could have picked. Stick Lawes and Palmer in the engine room and that's a team you can judge fairly.

What to do eh? Palmer has been dropped because they weren't happy with his management of the lineout, which apparently is Parling's speciality.

 
Re: England 22
Rich W (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 11:43
Quote:
Nev's Left Boot
outside of the Quins-centric rhetoric - the real shock here, is that they've picked Flood,he was useless in the game against Sarries, and pretty rubbish in his 30 min cameo at Exeter - yet walks straight in.
It's not as if we don;t have two lads doing the job already.

I can see why MB does not get the bench slot, never thought JTH was international class.

Manu and Lawes deserve to be there they have played well since there returns.

Parling is decent, but feel the Palmer should have remained.

Whilst I pretty much agree with that - excluding the bit about Parling but no matter - just to make a slightly pedantic point - Flood didn't have a cameo against Exeter - he played all 80. In his first half he played pretty well too - but in the second half he was appalling. He was better against Sarries - suggesting an improvement in form I suppose - but still way short of his best and of International class. His inclusion is a mystery to most Leicester fans I suspect. We would much rather have had him back at WR to work on recovering his form in our environment and away from the International 'pressure-cooker'.

Don't make too much of the drop-goal thing - he's never been great at them and made a pretty sensible decision given his current confidence and form to let his captain deal with it. Generally he'd have taken the shot - though he'd probably have missed!



...
To begin at the beginning:

It is spring, moonless night in the small town, starless
and bible-black, the cobblestreets silent and the hunched,
courters'-and-rabbits' wood limping invisible down to the
sloeblack, slow, black, crowblack, fishingboatbobbing sea.

 
Re: England 22
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 11:47
Quote:
Don't make too much of the drop-goal thing - he's never been great at them and made a pretty sensible decision given his current confidence and form to let his captain deal with it. Generally he'd have taken the shot - though he'd probably have missed!

That was a complete abdication of his responsibility, and showed him for the bottling wimp with the backbone of of an amoeba that he is. He didn't even wave his hands and call for the captain to take over, for heaven's sake. He'll never make anything of international rugby if he can't drop goals. [/quins fans]

 
Re: England 22
Heath Quinn (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 11:49
You having a bad day QP?

 
Re: England 22
Stooperman (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 11:52
Quote:
Heath Quinn
You having a bad day QP?

I think it was an attempt at sarcasm, as you had clearly had the better of the argument. He decided that parody would be a good way of scoring some points, I would say its backfired rather.

 
Re: England 22
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 11:58
HQ

I'm rather chipper today!

Stooperman

You're always looking to give someone a dig, and can't handle it when someone questions your posts. Lighten up my friend!

 
Re: England 22
Stooperman (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 12:16
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
HQ
I'm rather chipper today!

Stooperman

You're always looking to give someone a dig, and can't handle it when someone questions your posts. Lighten up my friend!

Not at all my friend. Its only you and Brown Bottle who get up my nose. In general I love a good debate.

Glad to hear you are feeling perky.

 
Re: England 22
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 13:03
I'm sorry I get up your nose, although I'm unsure why. smiling smiley

 
Re: England 22
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
23 February, 2012 13:27
I wish you weren't so argumentative, QP.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: England 22
23 February, 2012 14:13
Kettles and Pots, my friends......(Sm105)



Adventure before Dementia!

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