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English National Anthem
Harlequeenie (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 14:11
Why are we the only country in the Six Nations without a national anthem? - and don't say we have one. God Save the Queen is the UK national anthem. Imagine what Scotland, Ireland or Wales would have to say if they were forced to sing it, especially the Irish whose team has the Republic of Ireland's players in it as well as Northern Ireland's!
It's actually a hymn with two verses, the second of which is only ever sung in churches, and some don't believe in God, others don't believe in monarchies so what's the point of it?
Let's have something like the first verse of 'I Vow To Thee My Country'. Wonderful tune (music by Gustav Holst), lovely words (lyrics by Cecil Spring-Rice). Rather more peace-loving than the French anthem.

 
Re: English National Anthem
Nicksb (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 14:14
If it was up to me it would be Jerusalem.

 
Re: English National Anthem
JB1 (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 14:17
Land of hope and glory!

 
Re: English National Anthem
Sussex Phil (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 15:39
Quote:
Harlequeenie
It's actually a hymn with two verses, the second of which is only ever sung in churches, and some don't believe in God, others don't believe in monarchies so what's the point of it?.

It's actually got 6 verses! Good job we never seem to sing more than the 1st verse.

I must admit, that although I'm no great fan of the dirge, the first time I was at Twickenham when it was sung it made the hairs stand up on the back of my neck.

 
Re: English National Anthem
Boonie (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 15:40
Well, technically it has three verses, with many others that have been "appended" over the years, including one that celebrates Marshal Wade crushing the Scots, which is one very good reason the Scots don't use it!

England should have an anthem; GSTQ is the British anthem.

Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory would work for me!



===================================================
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

Albert Einstein

 
Re: English National Anthem
Arlecchino (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 15:44
Mrs Arlecchino is a Scot, it upsets her more than me (though I do agree).

Then her father gets upset that a 1967 "pop song" written by the Corries is used by Scotland (a statutory rant as it is played while clutching a glass of red). He would prefer something more tarditional.



Nunquam Dormio

 
Re: English National Anthem
Fistral Beach (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 16:55
Jerusalem does it for me

 
Re: English National Anthem
Wheelyaquinandson2 (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 17:06
Jerusalem

 
Re: English National Anthem
forthewin (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 18:04
I wonder how hard it would be to change a national anthem...?

 
Re: English National Anthem
The Eskimo (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 19:07
What about the tune that Sarries use?
(Sm159)

 
Re: English National Anthem
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 19:23
Vindaloo?



BB

 
Re: English National Anthem
New Forest Quin (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 20:31
Land of Hope and Glory or Jerusalem.

 
Re: English National Anthem
twickenham yeti (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 20:42
"I vow to thee my country", without doubt. Brings tears to my eyes. A true rugby anthem and a great one to adopt as the English anthem, IMHO.



........................................

One of the founder members of the Q-GOMC (promoted to Major Grump) – and proud of it - Bah!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/03/2012 20:42 by twickenham yeti.

 
Re: English National Anthem
Samquin (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 22:34
Who's decision is to change the anthem?

I really dislike God Save the Queen as the anthem.

Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory for me.

 
Re: English National Anthem
Catchyerselfon2 (IP Logged)
14 March, 2012 07:19
I do notice that the person who alerted the world regards the bands cock-up and got on his high horse about the Irish Anthems and the apparent charade is yet to put the record straight about his own country's anthem

 
Re: English National Anthem
will_quin (IP Logged)
14 March, 2012 13:49
Didn't we use to sing Land of Hope and Glory at internationals years ago?

 
Re: English National Anthem
Ricky T (IP Logged)
14 March, 2012 13:52
Jerusalem does it for me.

 
Re: English National Anthem
lewey (IP Logged)
14 March, 2012 16:31
Does anyone know why the RFU (and the FA) have chosen to go with the 'National Anthem' instead of an English one. For me i definitely get more stirred by the rendition of Jerusalem just before an International at Twicks. It seems to get a louder cheer each time i go.
Is it itme to change before the 2015 world cup. I thnk so

 
Re: English National Anthem
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
14 March, 2012 16:42
According to Wikipedia, England now uses 'Jerusalem' for the Commonwealth Games.



BB

 
Re: English National Anthem
Tigergeezer (IP Logged)
14 March, 2012 22:30
"Stand Up For The Englishmen".

 
Re: English National Anthem
Quin Kong (IP Logged)
14 March, 2012 23:33
Quote:
Catchyerselfon2
I do notice that the person who alerted the world regards the bands cock-up and got on his high horse about the Irish Anthems and the apparent charade is yet to put the record straight about his own country's anthem

Well he is a Scot!



QUIN KONG

 
Re: English National Anthem
Nigel_B (IP Logged)
15 March, 2012 12:24
My preference is "I vow to thee my country" but I could equally have Jerusalem or Land of Hope and Glory. We should then have GSTQ after both anthems have been sung, that would give us a better boost.

 
Re: English National Anthem
Sennen Lad (IP Logged)
15 March, 2012 12:30
The One Show theme......

 
Re: English National Anthem
SouthdownQuin (IP Logged)
15 March, 2012 12:38
I think Sussex should have its own anthem (Sm72)

Edited on remembering "Sussex by the Sea"!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/03/2012 12:41 by SouthdownQuin.

 
Re: English National Anthem
Smyler (IP Logged)
15 March, 2012 16:04
GSTQ is particularly out of place in a rugby context in that it refers only to God and The Queen, two entities we share with many of our rugby opponents.

For me Jerusalem is head and shoulders above any other suggestion. It is a wonderful song.

 
Re: English National Anthem
johnlid (IP Logged)
15 March, 2012 16:38
Jerusalem Hymn

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountain green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

Wikipedia
"The poem was inspired by the apocryphal story that a young Jesus, accompanied by his uncle Joseph of Arimathea, travelled to the area that is now England and visited Glastonbury during Jesus' lost years.[ The legend is linked to an idea in the Book of Revelation (3:12 and 21:2) describing a Second Coming, wherein Jesus establishes a new Jerusalem. The Christian Church in general, and the English Church in particular, used Jerusalem as a metaphor for Heaven, a place of universal love and peace".

As an overtly Christian hymn, I'm not sure that this is suitable for a multi-faith country (and I speak as a practising Christian). Tricky thing , this picking of a NATIONAL anthem



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 15/03/2012 18:39 by johnlid.

 
Re: English National Anthem
DOK (IP Logged)
15 March, 2012 16:51
I hope we get the Emerson, Lake and Palmer version!

It could be something like this!
[
">www.youtube.com
]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/03/2012 16:53 by DOK.

 
Re: English National Anthem
johnlid (IP Logged)
15 March, 2012 16:54
Solo
Dear Land of Hope, thy hope is crowned ,
God make thee mightier yet !
On Sov'ran brows, beloved, renowned,
Once more thy crown is set.
Thine equal laws, by Freedom gained,
Have ruled thee well and long ;
By Freedom gained, by Truth maintained,
Thine Empire shall be strong.

Chorus
Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free,
How shall we extol thee, who are born of thee?
Wider still and wider shall thy bounds be set;
God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet,
God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet.

Solo
Thy fame is ancient as the days,
As Ocean large and wide :
A pride that dares, and heeds not praise,
A stern and silent pride ;
Not that false joy that dreams content
With what our sires have won ;
The blood a hero sire hath spent
Still nerves a hero son.

Chorus
"Wider still and wider"

According to wikipedia
"The writing of the song is contemporaneous with the publication of Cecil Rhodes' will — in which he bequeathed his considerable wealth for the specific purpose of promoting "the extension of British rule throughout the world", and added a long detailed list of territories which Rhodes wanted brought under British rule and colonised by British people. The reference to the extension of the British Empire's boundaries may reflect the Boer War, recently won at the time of writing, in which Britain gained further territory, endowed with considerable mineral wealth"

If correct, and remember it is Wikipedia, I'm not sure that this is an anthem for 21st Century England --"Thine Empire shall be strong"? That'll go down well with the Commonwealth.

PS. the setting traditionally used is for the chorus only, the solos have a differnt setting



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/03/2012 16:55 by johnlid.

 
Re: English National Anthem
johnlid (IP Logged)
15 March, 2012 16:58
DOk, now that one I do like

 
Re: English National Anthem
drama Quin (IP Logged)
15 March, 2012 19:50
I vow to thee my country. No other choice for me as a Welshman. Would be soulful and incredibly intimitading.

I vow to thee, my country, all earthly things above,
Entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love;
The love that asks no question, the love that stands the test,
That lays upon the altar the dearest and the best;
The love that never falters, the love that pays the price,
The love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice.
I heard my country calling, away across the sea,
Across the waste of waters she calls and calls to me.
Her sword is girded at her side, her helmet on her head,
And round her feet are lying the dying and the dead.
I hear the noise of battle, the thunder of her guns,
I haste to thee my mother, a son among thy sons.
And there's another country, I've heard of long ago,
Most dear to them that love her, most great to them that know;
We may not count her armies, we may not see her King;
Her fortress is a faithful heart, her pride is suffering;
And soul by soul and silently her shining bounds increase,
And her ways are ways of gentleness, and all her paths are peace.


The final sacrifice



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/03/2012 19:53 by drama Quin.

 
Re: English National Anthem
johnlid (IP Logged)
15 March, 2012 20:23
Excellent. Another Christian song. The final line is based on Proverbs 3:17.
Who says the Devil has all the best tunes? It's not true, we do.
Last line sounds pacifist, too. Even better

 
Re: English National Anthem
16 March, 2012 10:56
I'd like something that properly celebrates Englishness and uses symbolism such as Bulldog Spirit, St George, Shakespeare, Democracy, The Welfare State, Idyllic Countryside, Human Diversity, Peaceful Co-Existence, Rule of Law.....etc



Oh, and Real Ale ( & Chocolate for the Ladies)

drinking smiley



Adventure before Dementia!

 
Re: English National Anthem
DOK (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 11:01
I think we should just go for this
[
">www.youtube.com
]

 
Re: English National Anthem
johnlid (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 11:31
Gets my vote, DOK. Go down a treat at Murrayfield. If Scotland wants to be defined by a song that harks back to the last significant thing that happened in Scotland then we can be defined by a song that gently mocks ourselves as English (thereby showing ourselves as truly superior).

Do the Scots people really hate us that much? You'd think they'd move on. Independence for Scotland can't come soon enough for me

 
Re: English National Anthem
16 March, 2012 11:35
+1!!!



Adventure before Dementia!

 
Re: English National Anthem
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 12:56
Quote:
Independence for Scotland can't come soon enough for me.

Nor me. Have they agreed how they're going to deal with repatriation yet and who will pay. Presumably it should be down to Scotland.



BB

 
Re: English National Anthem
johnlid (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 13:16
Well, when I moved out of my last home, I paid the removal costs. If the Scots want to leave, they should pay for the costs of reorganising the Union.

 
Re: English National Anthem
ArchQuin (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 13:23
The Mighty Quin ? (Sm100)

 
Re: English National Anthem
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 13:38
It's got to be the theme tune to The Archers!(Sm100) As the Big Yin said, it's lively, and you can sing it even if you don't know the words....

All together now....

Dum-di-dum-di-dum-di-dum
Dum-di-dum-di-da-da
Dum-di-dum-di-dum-di-dum
Dum-di-dad-di-di-dum

 
Re: English National Anthem
Fatbstard (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 13:50
DOK - I'm with you! F&S sheer genius.

I Vow to Thee my Country - a very moving and motivating song and, although it has underlying religious themes, IMHO they are subtle enough not to offend the atheists (like me) and non-christians that now make circa half the population.

I do love Jerusalem but it is very much a christian hymn, which will limit its appeal to future generations.

All a moot point though. The RFU are possibly the most conservative (with a small 'c') organisation in the land. I cant see it changing in my lifetime.

 
Re: English National Anthem
Samquin (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 14:13
Not being an anti monarchist I assume even the RFU would change if there was no monarchy. Have England ever used another anthem in the past?

 
Re: English National Anthem
johnlid (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 14:56
well, don't suggest "There'll always be an England" as not only does it ask what does the "red white and blue" mean to you but it also says the Empire will also always be there.

We really need to get away from our jingoistic military past. That was then, this is now. After all, we don't go around anymore invading countries just to show how macho we are.
Oh, hang on ....

 
Re: English National Anthem
Nemoquin (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 16:06
There is more than interpretation of Jerusalem, and Blake was not the sort of man to write a simple Christan hymn. To quote one found at random on the web:

"Jerusalem is here the symbolic residence of a humanity freed of the inter-related chains of commerce, British imperialism, and war. Blake's "mental fight" is directed against these chains. In his Blake: Prophet Against Empire, David Erdman tells us that Blake's "dark, Satanic Mills" are "mills that produce dark metal,
iron and steel, for diabolic purposes . . . . London . . . was a war arsenal and the hub of the machinery of war, and Blake uses the symbol in that sense."

 
Re: English National Anthem
johnlid (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 16:15
You might say that but Jerusalem is a word that Christians have used for centuries to mean Heaven. Blake was a Christian, albeit unorthodox for his time. He rejected institutionalised religion especially when it was associated with Government.

Blake was certainly not a man to write a simple hymn -- his whole body of work attests to that.
According to his longtime friend John Thomas Smith, “He did not for the last forty years attend any place of Divine worship.” For Blake, true worship was private communion.

 
Re: English National Anthem
Samquin (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 16:15
So we are agreed then it should be Jerusalem.......

 
Re: English National Anthem
johnlid (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 16:24
Yes, let's go for a Christian hymn written by a free thinking anarchist who disliked authority and was charged with sedition for forcibly ejecting a soldier from his garden. Luckily for us, he was found not guilty.

That exhausts my knowledge of Blake. If there's a real scholar out there, could he or she give us the real analysis.

 
Re: English National Anthem
Samquin (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 16:30
But it is a great tune written by Parry.

I wonder how many people have Jerusalem at their weddings and stop to consider the words opinions on Blake?

My wife and I had Jerusalem for our wedding and to be honest it was probably the only hymn where everyone knew the words and it sounded great.

 
Re: English National Anthem
ChiddQuin (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 16:34
Flanders & Swann for me.

Love the bit when they're singing about other nationalities
"it's not that you're wicked or especially bad, it's knowing you're foreign that's driving you mad."

 
Re: English National Anthem
Samquin (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 16:59
I hope you are not about to suggest the Hippopotamus song/Mud Glorious Mud? It will offend the backs who don't like to get muddy.

 
Re: English National Anthem
PQ2 (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 18:09
- Surely it's obvious: Floyd's "Shine on You Crazy Diamond".

 
Re: English National Anthem
lewey (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 20:49
Semantics aside about what the words of the song really mean we need an anthem which when played brings a lump to the throat of all Englishmen (and women) and fires up the boys for action.
Jerusalem for me is the one but I expect the rfu hierarchy won't want to rock the potential honours list boat
Give us an English anthem!!!!

 
Re: English National Anthem
Samquin (IP Logged)
16 March, 2012 23:29
I noticed there is a web page campaigning for an English Anthem. I don't know whose behind it. LInk below if anyone is interested.

Anthem4England

 
Re: English National Anthem
Catchyerselfon2 (IP Logged)
17 March, 2012 07:09
Have more than one anthem and get a whole thread dedicated to how a country can devalue the game in the eyes of one person, who then will not accept the reasons behind the two anthems being played

 
Re: English National Anthem
Rocker (IP Logged)
17 March, 2012 10:06
Quote:
DOK
I think we should just go for this
[
">www.youtube.com
]
+1 Great Idea

 
Re: English National Anthem
Rocker (IP Logged)
17 March, 2012 10:10
In the real world though Jeruslem gets my vote

 
Re: English National Anthem
kevin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2012 15:53
We should have a completely new one, free of any royalist and religious content. Emphasising the strength of the common people. Penned by say, Paul McCartney or Jon Fratelli or...

 
Re: English National Anthem
Samquin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2012 16:11
Nothing wrong with the old tunes.

Fanfare for a common man!!

 
Re: English National Anthem
Rocker (IP Logged)
18 March, 2012 18:58
Quote:
kevin
We should have a completely new one, free of any royalist and religious content. Emphasising the strength of the common people. Penned by say, Paul McCartney or Jon Fratelli or...

NO!
NEVER!
I'd rather be French than have to have a McCartney anthem!

 
Re: English National Anthem
Nemoquin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2012 19:49
Common people! Why should there be an anthem for Wasps fans?(Sm109)

 
Re: English National Anthem
Matthew (IP Logged)
18 March, 2012 19:50
Aside from GStQ not being the English anthem, as a republican atheist I have other issues with it too....

Of course, we could all refuse to stand up for it and refuse to sing it. Or try to sing over the top of it.

 
Re: English National Anthem
NorthernMonkee (IP Logged)
18 March, 2012 23:32
Quote:
Rocker
Quote:
kevin
We should have a completely new one, free of any royalist and religious content. Emphasising the strength of the common people. Penned by say, Paul McCartney or Jon Fratelli or...

NO!
NEVER!
I'd rather be French than have to have a McCartney anthem!

I'm with Kevin on a brand new anthem, and agree with Rocker that I want McCartney no where near it...

I actually like GSTQ, but compared to the other anthems, it's definitely lacking.

I'd like a new song made that fits the time. Ireland's Call was only written in 1995 and even on Saturday I found myself wanting to sing along to it. Had to bite the lip.

I like Oh Flower of Scotland, La Marseillaise [despite being a tad blood thirsty] and the Italian one too. Not that bothered about Land of My Fathers.

The problem is, what sort of text would you put in a new English anthem? Since our Capital City is technically the capital of Britain, surely this problem with the anthem stems down to the simple fact that English identity has been gradually diminished over the years.

Can anyone define what it is to be English anymore?

 
Re: English National Anthem
DOK (IP Logged)
18 March, 2012 23:48
Quote:
Can anyone define what it is to be English anymore?

[
">www.youtube.com
]

For England is not flag or Empire, it is not money and it is not blood.
It's limestone gorge and granite fell, it's Wealden clay and Severn mud,
It's blackbird singing from the May tree, lark ascending through the scales,
Robin watching from your spade and English earth beneath your nails.

Here's two cheers for a place called England, sore abused but not yet dead;
A Mr Harding sort of England hanging in there by a thread.
Here's two cheers for the crazy diggers, now their hour shall come around;
We shall plant the seed they saved us, common wealth and common ground.

 
Re: English National Anthem
twitter@bisted (IP Logged)
19 March, 2012 08:28
*Always Look on the Bright Side of Life* ?



http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Rugby/silly_cat.jpg
Anyone seen the budgie?

(Anyone who says he can see through women is missing a lot.)

 
Re: English National Anthem
Nicksb (IP Logged)
19 March, 2012 08:34
Video Killed the Radio Star?

 
Re: English National Anthem
poorfour (IP Logged)
19 March, 2012 08:44
Quote:
kevin
We should have a completely new one, free of any royalist and religious content. Emphasising the strength of the common people. Penned by say, Paul McCartney or Jon Fratelli or...

...Jarvis Cocker? A few tweaks to the lyrics and we'd be there. Something the Barbour and Land Rover crowd could sing along to with an ironic smile on their lips.

 
Re: English National Anthem
Blank436 (IP Logged)
20 March, 2012 06:51
Not seriously - given recent events (and not wishing to start a debate - it's o/t) - [
">www.youtube.com
] (contains politics and some minor bad language).

Seriously - They'll always be an England is a good idea if avoiding religious content.


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