Quote:GP2110
As I just posted on a separate thread:
"For some perspective, the Roadmap (which I think is a useful tool) has us needing 21 points after GW 10 to finish 6th.
At present, we have 20 points so even if we only get 1 point from our next 3 (Exeter, Bath, Sarries), that would still leave us on track for Top 6 - at least as far as the Roadmap is concerned".
So, on the basis that the Roadmap takes into account who we have / haven't played, it is by no means a disaster
Quote:arniepie
When the draw was made for the European cup did anyone honestly think we would get anything from the group we were in???
Quote:HonkyTonkQuote:arniepie
When the draw was made for the European cup did anyone honestly think we would get anything from the group we were in???
Just a bit of a bashing tbh
Quote:arniepie
When the draw was made for the European cup did anyone honestly think we would get anything from the group we were in???
Quote:talkshowhost86Quote:GP2110
As I just posted on a separate thread:
"For some perspective, the Roadmap (which I think is a useful tool) has us needing 21 points after GW 10 to finish 6th.
At present, we have 20 points so even if we only get 1 point from our next 3 (Exeter, Bath, Sarries), that would still leave us on track for Top 6 - at least as far as the Roadmap is concerned".
So, on the basis that the Roadmap takes into account who we have / haven't played, it is by no means a disaster
I’d be interested to see how that all matches up if the next four games do go badly.
If we do only get 1 point from the next four games, sounds like the roadmap would have us as being on course, but looking at the table and the fixtures we could well then be in 10th and likely no higher than 8th.
Does the roadmap envisage a glorious end of season fightback, or are there just more teams taking points off each other this season meaning a bad run can really leave you off the pace.
Quote:poorfourQuote:talkshowhost86Quote:GP2110
As I just posted on a separate thread:
"For some perspective, the Roadmap (which I think is a useful tool) has us needing 21 points after GW 10 to finish 6th.
At present, we have 20 points so even if we only get 1 point from our next 3 (Exeter, Bath, Sarries), that would still leave us on track for Top 6 - at least as far as the Roadmap is concerned".
So, on the basis that the Roadmap takes into account who we have / haven't played, it is by no means a disaster
I’d be interested to see how that all matches up if the next four games do go badly.
If we do only get 1 point from the next four games, sounds like the roadmap would have us as being on course, but looking at the table and the fixtures we could well then be in 10th and likely no higher than 8th.
Does the roadmap envisage a glorious end of season fightback, or are there just more teams taking points off each other this season meaning a bad run can really leave you off the pace.
The roadmap just looks at historically how we have done against those teams based a little bit on their recent finishing position. This year we have a tough middle of the season but a comparatively easy run in when you look at what we have had the last few seasons.
Quote:DOK
Hmm..Exeter, Bath, Saracens - hard to see us getting 5 points from those games.
Quote:DOK
I think we're on track at the moment for our minimum target of 6th (though we just seem to be cannon fodder in the European Cup). Given our injuries (28 is it?) and our defence, that can't be bad. Surely we can fix some of the defence issues, then we'll be in a better position?
Quote:thomhQuote:DOK
I think we're on track at the moment for our minimum target of 6th (though we just seem to be cannon fodder in the European Cup). Given our injuries (28 is it?) and our defence, that can't be bad. Surely we can fix some of the defence issues, then we'll be in a better position?
Who are these 28 supposed injuries? It may have crept up, but to be honest I haven't felt like we've been fielding horribly depleted sides for much of this season.
Quote:talkshowhost86
Does the roadmap envisage a glorious end of season fightback, or are there just more teams taking points off each other this season meaning a bad run can really leave you off the pace.
Quote:thomh
Who are these 28 supposed injuries? It may have crept up, but to be honest I haven't felt like we've been fielding horribly depleted sides for much of this season.
Quote:thomhQuote:DOK
I think we're on track at the moment for our minimum target of 6th (though we just seem to be cannon fodder in the European Cup). Given our injuries (28 is it?) and our defence, that can't be bad. Surely we can fix some of the defence issues, then we'll be in a better position?
Who are these 28 supposed injuries? It may have crept up, but to be honest I haven't felt like we've been fielding horribly depleted sides for much of this season.
Quote:RleQuinQuote:HonkyTonkQuote:arniepie
When the draw was made for the European cup did anyone honestly think we would get anything from the group we were in???
Just a bit of a bashing tbh
As soon as we qualified for the Champions Cup, I knew we were out even before the draw was made. Just look at our performance over the last 20 years when we've qualified - we've never done well even when we've been playing really well.
Sadly, it is a fact, we can't do the HC!
RleQ
Quote:talkshowhost86
Well even under your own analysis we are missing the target and missing it by 1.07 points per game is actually a fair bit.
Quote:DOK
You have to have the kind of resources Saracens have to make a decent fist of the European Cup. Without that and with our injuries, it was never going to work. I got told off last season for saying I'd rather win the euro tin pot than just be cannon fodder in our pool, but it's true!
Quote:I'm not sure I completely agree - No 10 is the main playmaker in a lot of teams. We have been without ours for all but 10 minutes of one game.Cookie
I'd say our backs have been unaffected by injuries. We're more than strong enough there with what we've had available.
Quote:Cookie
I'd say our backs have been unaffected by injuries. We're more than strong enough there with what we've had available.
As for the forwards, we have to accept that a big part of the problem has been suspensions. Not sure it's fair for us to bleat about 6 being missing when 3 of them are suspended.
Furthermore, we had ample time to bring in replacement cover when we knew we'd be without Wallace, Bothma, Chris etc for a considerable amount of time.
We've had a bit of bad luck, but we've compounded it ourselves.
Quote:Sorry to pick this argument apart again Cookie - (I feel that I am continually doing this at the moment) - But, although Bothma was injured in the off season, he was pretty much available to play at the start. Which is why it was a shock that he broke his arm just before the 2nd game of the season. (i.e. in the Monday night's a game). I spoke to Chis at the LI pre-season game and he had actually started training with the team 2 weeks before that - but had then had a headache and realised that he would have to go through the protocols again - but, I think that everyone thought that his return was imminent.Cookie
My point is I've never looked at our back line and thought it would struggle. Sure, would have been nice to have Catrikilis and Saili available, but Smith/Roberts/Marchant has been an excellent and constant trio and if Smith hadn't come through we could have claimed to have a bigger problem.
As for the forwards, we started the season without Wallace, Bothma and Chis and knew we wouldn't see them for a couple of months so this shouldn't have been a shock. When we then picked up a couple more injuries and started playing Glynn at 6, that should have rung a very loud alarm bell.
Quote:never sleepQuote:Sorry to pick this argument apart again Cookie - (I feel that I am continually doing this at the moment) - But, although Bothma was injured in the off season, he was pretty much available to play at the start. Which is why it was a shock that he broke his arm just before the 2nd game of the season. (i.e. in the Monday night's a game). I spoke to Chis at the LI pre-season game and he had actually started training with the team 2 weeks before that - but had then had a headache and realised that he would have to go through the protocols again - but, I think that everyone thought that his return was imminent.Cookie
My point is I've never looked at our back line and thought it would struggle. Sure, would have been nice to have Catrikilis and Saili available, but Smith/Roberts/Marchant has been an excellent and constant trio and if Smith hadn't come through we could have claimed to have a bigger problem.
As for the forwards, we started the season without Wallace, Bothma and Chis and knew we wouldn't see them for a couple of months so this shouldn't have been a shock. When we then picked up a couple more injuries and started playing Glynn at 6, that should have rung a very loud alarm bell.
Quote:Only Joe Quin
I reckon there are three criteria for judging impact of injuries on the squad:
- numbers: between 25% and 33% of senior squad injured is normal (no stats, just gut feel). For us, that is between 10 and 14 players. I think we are currently at 12 so normal, when it was 16 it was an issue
- concentration: back row has been our problem for most of the season and we still have 3 out of 6 injured. Lock and hooker have also been problems, especially with Glynn and Ward providing back row cover.
- talisman players : the ones who make the team tick. For me, Horwill, Robshaws, Care and Brown. All there currently although we had a bad spell a few weeks ago.
So definitely injuries have been a valid excuse, but only in the back row currently. The current problems seem more to do with suspensions and disciplinary, is things within our control.
Quote:Jammy Git
We were also missing Brown for a few games.
Quote:Jammy Git
We were also missing Brown for a few games.
Quote:never sleep
I think also, in Brown's defence, he did stop one certain try. Unfortunately, the TMO ruled that the Wuss player was not in touch when he touched the ball down.
(probably fair enough that the decision went with the attacking team - but nevertheless, harsh on Brown)
Quote:CookieQuote:Jammy Git
We were also missing Brown for a few games.
Yes, but we Aaron Morris as more than adequate cover (great try vs Saints) and further cover in Tim Swiel.
Quote:Jammy GitQuote:CookieQuote:Jammy Git
We were also missing Brown for a few games.
Yes, but we Aaron Morris as more than adequate cover (great try vs Saints) and further cover in Tim Swiel.
Morris had a couple of pony performances and Swiel can fill a shirt at 15, but...
Quote:CookieQuote:Jammy GitQuote:CookieQuote:Jammy Git
We were also missing Brown for a few games.
Yes, but we Aaron Morris as more than adequate cover (great try vs Saints) and further cover in Tim Swiel.
Morris had a couple of pony performances and Swiel can fill a shirt at 15, but...
Must have been watching different games regarding Morris. Plenty said he should have kept the short when Brownie came back.
Quote:CookieQuote:Jammy GitQuote:CookieQuote:Jammy Git
We were also missing Brown for a few games.
Yes, but we Aaron Morris as more than adequate cover (great try vs Saints) and further cover in Tim Swiel.
Morris had a couple of pony performances and Swiel can fill a shirt at 15, but...
Must have been watching different games regarding Morris. Plenty said he should have kept the shirt when Brownie came back.