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France vs Wales
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 16:54
93 minutes and counting.

Allegations of biting and a yellow card being given after time with the player returning!

Mayhem

 
Re: France vs Wales
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 16:56
Why no penalty try?

 
Re: France vs Wales
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 16:57
Surely a candidate for longest international, though they have stopped pausing the clock.

 
Re: France vs Wales
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 17:04
France win in the 100th minute!

 
Re: France vs Wales
kevin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 17:41
Thought Barnes dealt with it all very calmly and correctly. Well done to him. Fascinating end. Glad France won!

 
Re: France vs Wales
Monte (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 17:53
Allen le bleu!

 
Re: France vs Wales
johnlid (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 18:50
Thought Barnes did well under testing circumstances. Great win for France. TV commentaters moaning but I thought it was gripping and was on the edge of my seat cheering on the French

 
Re: France vs Wales
Hellequin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:04
Thought Barnes did well, maybe laws needs to be looked at in terms of penalty tries in terms of repeat infringements conceding penalty tries.

 
Re: France vs Wales
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 21:17
Quote:
Hellequin
Thought Barnes did well, maybe laws needs to be looked at in terms of penalty tries in terms of repeat infringements conceding penalty tries.

I thought a penalty try was an option for repeated infringements in such a case. Just surprised it wasn't given.

 
Re: France vs Wales
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 22:10
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Hellequin
Thought Barnes did well, maybe laws needs to be looked at in terms of penalty tries in terms of repeat infringements conceding penalty tries.

I thought a penalty try was an option for repeated infringements in such a case. Just surprised it wasn't given.

It's not. No scrum individually was dominant enough to give probable cause for a try.

 
Re: France vs Wales
The Mighty Spug (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 22:52
What I didn't understand was why the clock wasn't stopped when Barnes was trying to establish whether Tom Francis had gone off injured and therefore if he was eligible to return while Samson Lee was in the bin. This seemed to take a few minutes and meant the time on the yellow card was significantly wound down without anything happening.

Seemed like a mistake to me.

 
Re: France vs Wales
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 23:03
It definately was.

It was as if the ref team never imagined that a yellow card issued after the buzzer would be anything other than an effective red.

 
Re: France vs Wales
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 23:10
Quote:
Adi Nako
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Hellequin
Thought Barnes did well, maybe laws needs to be looked at in terms of penalty tries in terms of repeat infringements conceding penalty tries.

I thought a penalty try was an option for repeated infringements in such a case. Just surprised it wasn't given.

It's not. No scrum individually was dominant enough to give probable cause for a try.

I realise that but I always thought that persistently conceding penalties that close to the line could result in a penalty try. I'm probably wrong though!

 
Re: France vs Wales
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 00:02
Only if it stops a probably try being scored - otherwise it's just a clear case for a yellow. Felt like Barnes went easy on Wales a bit and more cards could have come; the penultimate scrum felt like a clear penalty try to me, too.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: France vs Wales
johnlid (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 07:26
Quote:
The Mighty Spug
What I didn't understand was why the clock wasn't stopped when Barnes was trying to establish whether Tom Francis had gone off injured and therefore if he was eligible to return while Samson Lee was in the bin. This seemed to take a few minutes and meant the time on the yellow card was significantly wound down without anything happening.
Seemed like a mistake to me.

Don't think there's a need to stop the clock after 80 minutes are up. The game continues for however long it goes on. The game finishes when the ball goes dead unless it's because of an a penalty. So if the French had knocked on or the Welsh regained possession and kicked it out then the game would stop.
This is a poor summary of Law 5.7 (e) which says

If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or lineout has not been completed, the referee allows play to continue until the next time that the ball becomes dead. The ball becomes dead when the referee would have awarded a scrum, lineout, an option to the non-infringing team, drop out or after a conversion or successful penalty kick at goal. If a scrum has to be reset, the scrum has not been completed. If time expires and a mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue


I think stopping the clock during "normal time" is to ensure there is a full 80 minutes of playing time
But I agree that the effect of this was to allow the yellow card time to run down whilst play had stopped



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 19/03/2017 07:33 by johnlid.

 
Re: France vs Wales
Mayor West (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 09:11
I noticed that both sides thought Wayne was biased. I think that was one of the most enjoyable Ends to an international game I've seen. Seeing the Welsh lose like that and come 5th gave me great pleasure. This is mostly because the few Welsh people I know take it all too seriously and personally and have a hundred excuses for being constantly cheated out of so much and they really mean it.

 
Re: France vs Wales
19 March, 2017 10:07
Quote:
Mayor West
I noticed that both sides thought Wayne was biased. I think that was one of the most enjoyable Ends to an international game I've seen. Seeing the Welsh lose like that and come 5th gave me great pleasure. This is mostly because the few Welsh people I know take it all too seriously and personally and have a hundred excuses for being constantly cheated out of so much and they really mean it.


This

 
Re: France vs Wales
Dave L (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 11:41
Barnes was fine IMO. People often don't like him because he often seems to spot the little marginal 'cheats' and penalises them, particularly at international level. He's a bit of a panto villan but I do think he's a better ref than most out there!

 
Re: France vs Wales
The Dead Baron (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 16:09
I missed the game and am mystified as to what happened. Was it basically that the ball was either kept live or penalties were given from minute 80 to 100?

 
Re: France vs Wales
johnlid (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 16:14
Basically penalty after penalty plus discussions with TMO and confusion over substitutes

 
Re: France vs Wales
The Dead Baron (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 16:27
Jeeeeeez. That must be some sort of record. So if you have a penalty and kick it over the posts the ball goes ded after it, but if you take the tap-and-go instead you can keep the ball alive, so if you're chasing the points and need more than 3 then that's the logical way to go - that about the size of it?

 
Re: France vs Wales
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 17:35
Quote:
The Dead Baron
Jeeeeeez. That must be some sort of record. So if you have a penalty and kick it over the posts the ball goes ded after it, but if you take the tap-and-go instead you can keep the ball alive, so if you're chasing the points and need more than 3 then that's the logical way to go - that about the size of it?

France took almost every penalty as a scrum, which obviously didn't help with time!

 
Re: France vs Wales
ChipsteadQuin (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 10:01
I thought WB did well and kept calm - French prop sub was a bit suspect , but WB couldn't have been clearer with their Doctor .

There has never been a need to stop the clock after 80 mins for reasons stated above , but it made a nonsense of the YC , I think there will be a ref directive to stop it after 80 as well from now on ,as there was prob only 6/7 mins of actual play in the 20 mins over time.

 
Re: France vs Wales
Sketchley (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 10:09
Thing that struck me was how similar the french prop coming back on was to the thing we don't mention any more. I hope, if proven, that similar bans are put in place as deterrent.

 
Re: France vs Wales
Cookie (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 10:12
6Nations Rugby have announced an investigation:

Launching an investigation into the incident, a Six Nations Rugby statement, issued on Sunday, read: "SNRL is aware of concerns about the head injury assessment that took place towards the end of the match and is looking into the matter.

"No further comments will be made until the closing of the citing window and the conclusion of the enquiry."

 
Re: France vs Wales
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 10:13
Quote:
Sketchley
Thing that struck me was how similar the french prop coming back on was to the thing we don't mention any more. I hope, if proven, that similar bans are put in place as deterrent.

Indeed. Apparently the citing commissioner will be reviewing it as well as the allegation of biting that North made...

 
Re: France vs Wales
gregory p (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 12:33
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Adi Nako
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Hellequin
Thought Barnes did well, maybe laws needs to be looked at in terms of penalty tries in terms of repeat infringements conceding penalty tries.

I thought a penalty try was an option for repeated infringements in such a case. Just surprised it wasn't given.

It's not. No scrum individually was dominant enough to give probable cause for a try.

I realise that but I always thought that persistently conceding penalties that close to the line could result in a penalty try. I'm probably wrong though!

Didn't Steve Lander (apologies if that startled anyone) give a penalty try many years ago in a Bath v Leicester final. He just got fed up with continual Leicester infringements close to their try line and after penalty number 20 trotted under the posts and awarded the penalty try? It gave the game to Bath and led to Neil Back pushing over Steve Lander and rightly collecting a lengthy ban.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 20/03/2017 12:40 by gregory p.

 
Re: France vs Wales
Teddington Taff (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 15:39
I've vocalised more than my fair share of criticism of Wayne Barnes as referee but never about the man. I've been to a "Meet the Ref" night that he has given his time to and he is an honest man and fully committed to the game of rugby. Yes sometimes it seems to be the Wayne Barnes Show and so he could be epitomised as a Panto Villain - unfairly. But he had an exceptional tough test of character as the game went into what became 20 minutes of extra time added. And he should be applauded for holding it together under extremely difficult circumstances and televised spotlight.
We can debate elements of that extra time play and most of which has been covered on this thread. Someone (I know) rather interestingly pointed out to me that you have to referee such occurances "by the book" and he did that without fear or favour. Not many other referees would have stood firm under such pressures.
Quinsa should book him immediately to have another evening so we can discuss it at length with him.

 
Re: France vs Wales
Dave L (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 16:09
Quote:
Teddington Taff
I've vocalised more than my fair share of criticism of Wayne Barnes as referee but never about the man. I've been to a "Meet the Ref" night that he has given his time to and he is an honest man and fully committed to the game of rugby. Yes sometimes it seems to be the Wayne Barnes Show and so he could be epitomised as a Panto Villain - unfairly. But he had an exceptional tough test of character as the game went into what became 20 minutes of extra time added. And he should be applauded for holding it together under extremely difficult circumstances and televised spotlight.
We can debate elements of that extra time play and most of which has been covered on this thread. Someone (I know) rather interestingly pointed out to me that you have to referee such occurances "by the book" and he did that without fear or favour. Not many other referees would have stood firm under such pressures.
Quinsa should book him immediately to have another evening so we can discuss it at length with him.

Well put TT.

 
Re: France vs Wales
blucherquin (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 17:07
He comes across superbly on Rugby Tonight I think, and seems to be getting a lot of plaudits from people who actually know what they're talking about as opposed to one-eyed screaming partisan fans.

 
Re: France vs Wales
DOK (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 17:22
Good analysis here from another referee of Wayne Barnes' performance [www.walesonline.co.uk]

 
Re: France vs Wales
InsertQuinsPunHere (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 23:04
That's about as impartial as one can get, I'd say. Not a bad write up, thanks DOK


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