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Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
kevin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 18:22
...their own. But I don't doubt their fairness of course !....just a gentle dig



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/03/2017 18:23 by kevin.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Hellequin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 18:31
Irish are pretty much the leaders in gamesmanship in the NH especially with a home crowd to influence the ref. Although Wales not far behind



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/03/2017 18:33 by Hellequin.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 18:45
Has Watson caught the ball this game?

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
blucherquin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 18:50
I think we probably should be quiet and suck up the fact England have been god awful at adapting to a smart and physical side and beaten by a better team.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
kevin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:00
Quote:
blucherquin
I think we probably should be quiet and suck up the fact England have been god awful at adapting to a smart and physical side and beaten by a better team.
There was nothing "smart" about their play! E.g. Holding players on the floor overlooked by a ref who refused to admonish it ? Irish killed the game but it is true England couldn't combat the tactics .
Were our backs playing? Allowed to?

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Hellequin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:02
It was the same old 6 nations match we have seen with the defensive team winning out in the end.

I think it would have been a completely different match if it had been an equal contest in terms of expectation.

Dont get me wrong I think Ireland played the match perfectly they killed off England's attack and took advantage of their chances to win but I think if the championship had been up for grabs the game plan and result would have been different. (Example in the u20 and women's matches)

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:03
Isn't "breaking" the rules whilst not getting pinged is the definition of smart play in rugby?

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
kevin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:06
Quote:
Adi Nako
Isn't "breaking" the rules whilst not getting pinged is the definition of smart play in rugby?
Don't be ridiculous! Smart is playing within the laws and outsmarting opposition.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Hellequin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:09
This is kind of the problem with 6 nations with 2 home and 3 away if it had been a title decider the quality of match and officiating can be decisive especially if there us a weak ref.

If England had been at home would they have lost the match?

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:17
Quote:
kevin
Quote:
Adi Nako
Isn't "breaking" the rules whilst not getting pinged is the definition of smart play in rugby?
Don't be ridiculous! Smart is playing within the laws and outsmarting opposition.

The referee is the sole judge of fact and of Law during a match

Guess Ireland were playing within the laws then.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
10 (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 20:34
blatant cheating by holding English players.

Unfortunately it was down the one eyed ref to ping them.

As much as they deserved a good stamping unfortunately that would have meant a red card etc..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/03/2017 20:36 by 10.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 21:43
There was only one way England were going to lose that game and that is if they collectively bottled it, which they did. They played the occasion and not the team in front of them.

Not the ref, not the circa 10 years old Irish tactics which we all knew they'd use but England choked under the pressure.

Very disappointing and Jones' tactics didn't work. EJ must go. :-)

The only bright spark is that they will not forget this and it will help them kick on to greater things.

P.S. has anyone seen the imperious leader Dylan Hartley, I think he missed the flight?

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
RleQuin (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 03:39
Given that the irish play the same way in these games, why is it that England seem to be the only ones who don't know?
For all the wins racked up, this game told me we are miles away from lifting the WC (and not just because it is two years away!) - they completely lost the plot and didn't think under pressure let alone clearly.
What a complete disappointment!
Still, we won the trophy so not all was bad!
I was thinking where had I seen that sort of performance before...?
RleQ

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
blucherquin (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 07:00
Quote:
kevin
Quote:
Adi Nako
Isn't "breaking" the rules whilst not getting pinged is the definition of smart play in rugby?
Don't be ridiculous! Smart is playing within the laws and outsmarting opposition.

No, Adi is right and it's exactly what I meant

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Dave L (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 07:32
England were just daft yesterday. Yes, Garces didn't help but we were our own worst enemies. The defeat had to come somewhere and I hope that as a squad they can kick on and learn from it.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
19 March, 2017 07:52
I watched it with an Irishman.....long day..

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Duncan Beaumont (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 08:38
Quote:
deadlyfrom5yardsout
I watched it with an Irishman.....long day..

Shame there wasn't a Welshman there as well.

That would have been a circular competition!

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
miami mike (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 09:38
Quote:
10
blatant cheating by holding English players.
Unfortunately it was down the one eyed ref to ping them.

As much as they deserved a good stamping unfortunately that would have meant a red card etc..

At least England never get Mr Barnes!

Most Irish people I know are being quietly respectful during & after their unexpected victory.

[www.youtube.com]

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
19 March, 2017 09:55
Quote:
miami mike
Quote:
10
blatant cheating by holding English players.
Unfortunately it was down the one eyed ref to ping them.

As much as they deserved a good stamping unfortunately that would have meant a red card etc..

At least England never get Mr Barnes!

Most Irish people I know are being quietly respectful during & after their unexpected victory.

[www.youtube.com]


So that parrot will Vooommm after all!!

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 10:20
Personally I thought Youngs and Itoje weren't great. The pack was so poor that Cole was noticeable.

Not sure of the point in bringing Sinckler on with about 5 seconds left, but I guess it's another cap.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
DOK (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 10:49
I was expecting England to play like that but hoping they wouldn't. They gave away daft penalties, they lost their accuracy (in everything, not just the line out), never mind Eddie Jones, they hadn't even mastered Clive Woodward's TCUP! Everyone knows Ireland are masters of the choke tackle, there are tactics to beat it, which we didn't use.

That said, for England to take the "games won" record from New Zealand would have been a travesty. Yes, now they know they're not as good as we all thought after the Scotland game.

At least Eddie Jones seems to acknowledge all that. As he says, they're 14 months into a 4 year project. If at the start of that project you'd told me England would have won one Grand Slam and back to back six nation championships, I wouldn't have believed you.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Dave L (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 11:38
14 months into a 4 year project is spot on. If you'd have offered me the 4 out of 5 and a championship win before the tournament I'd have taken it.

England have had half the team coming back from long term injuries without any club games behind them and their ring rustiness has shown on a few occasions.

Last night was hugely disappointing. Any man and his dog would have known what Ireland were going to do and it seemed like we fell right into it. Ireland executed their game plan superbly. I think we're starting to get there with matching the Celtic we hate England bluster etc but we still have a way to go. Onwards and upwards - congratulations to the squad for the 18 games unbeaten, great run.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Mayor West (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 21:41
I see the loss as a monkey off their back. They have won two six nations , one a grand slam. They won this one by five points not points difference like some before although this is the first time with BPS etc. I think that if the unbeaten record is in the back of your mind you can become anxious and not carefree like the Irish were. I don't know what we could have done about the Irish piling in in numbers at the breakdown, holding on and being off their feet without the ref but we also gave possession away with constant kicking and knock ons. I thought we lacked confidence and a definite game plan although there were only four points in it. Never mind, lions and Argentina to look forward to next.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
21 March, 2017 13:13
I think that it shows that the leadership just isn't there on the pitch as was shown during the Italy & Ireland games. Something goes wrong and no one knows what to do. Last years 6N, Australia tour and the AIs, we were behind in games but no one panicked, no one blinked they just carried on through the phases and the result just came.

It looked the same against France & the welsh but they snapped back into gear and stuck with the system and the plan.

If Hartley leads by example then it's no wonder that we lost, as he contributed nothing. Farrell & Brown are too explosive to be leaders, great players as they are and when all around are losing theirs.........

Before you all ask, I think Robshaw or Launchbury to lead as they are consistent and calm in a crisis. I know that lots feel Launchbury will drop out for Kruis once fit but he feels like a good foil for Itoje.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Duncan Beaumont (IP Logged)
22 March, 2017 06:10
Quote:
Banstead Quin

Before you all ask, I think Robshaw or Launchbury to lead as they are consistent and calm in a crisis. I know that lots feel Launchbury will drop out for Kruis once fit but he feels like a good foil for Itoje.


I can't see that Robshaw will get his place back. I am going to a talk by Eddie Jones next month - shall I ask him?

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
22 March, 2017 08:08
Don't see why he wouldn't DB? We were poor at the breakdown and Project Itoje at 6 didn't work. It's alright for the odd game or half way through but he needs to stay at 4 to really achieve his best.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
blucherquin (IP Logged)
22 March, 2017 08:50
I think there's no replacement for Robshaw at 6 now, I'm not sure that'll be true in 2019.

So guess the question comes when Jones will start to develop whoever he thinks is the natural heir to the shirt - I also don't think it's Itoje, he's no doubt turning into one of the stars of world rugby, but I also think he'll do it at 4.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
22 March, 2017 09:05
What happened to all of those media-called world class back rows? Kvesic, Fraser, Wallace all have disappeared off the radar completely.

I worry about about a 7 going forwards for England. Maybe we just stick with 6.5s? Wardie for England!

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
22 March, 2017 09:41
We missed robshaw massively this 6N.

Until somebody comes along with better workrate and intelligence I can't see why we'd jettison him. He'll be 33 in Japan - and he's never exactly relied on raw pace. Obviously unlikely, but somebody has to be better which is clearly not the case right now.

We're playing our best player out of position to cover Robshaw's absence, and he's looked nowhere near as good.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Dave L (IP Logged)
22 March, 2017 10:20
Quote:
RodneyRegis
We missed robshaw massively this 6N.
Until somebody comes along with better workrate and intelligence I can't see why we'd jettison him. He'll be 33 in Japan - and he's never exactly relied on raw pace. Obviously unlikely, but somebody has to be better which is clearly not the case right now.

We're playing our best player out of position to cover Robshaw's absence, and he's looked nowhere near as good.

Agreed! Neil Back was 34 at WC 2003. Richie McCaw was 34 at 2011 IIRC?

Underhill and Mike Williams are supposedly the next options off the 7 type flanker cab rank for England I think. Hopefully one or both will press a claim.

 
Re: Charming Irish...so quiet for kicker...
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
22 March, 2017 12:44
God I hope so Dave, can't take the 'brand' much longer.

I think Robshaw will be ok for 2019. As you say Rodney, no one is anywhere near him at present.


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