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It's Not All JK
Cookie (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 15:10
Whilst I am of the opinion JK isn't (and never was) the man for the job, so do I think that Mapletoft seems to get a pass for his part in our continued poor performance.

If JK has a defence it's that he's relying on his coaching team to do their jobs.

Let's not forget that when a change was needed at Gloucester (ironically the last straw was losing to us!), it was the Head Coach who left "by mutual consent", while Humphreys remained as DOR.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Nev's Left Boot (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 15:28
all true - however JK needs to be the BIG man and make the right decision - he either a) changes up the coaching team or b) falls on his sword

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Roaming Quin (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 15:38
Well said. I think he could do well but he does need to grow a set and get rid of journeymen like MM and CO.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
The Dead Baron (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 15:47
I'm not entirely sure Minty has any right being Defence Coach of a Premiership team either. Sure, he was a great player and a great servant of the club, but it does feel a lot like he was given the job in deference to that rather than his actual prove abilities. I think we'd be better of if he either got bumped to the Academy or else got subbed out to somewhere like Cobham or Esher to earn his stripes before being given a job at the sharp end. Actually, you could argue that the only member of the coaching team with any pedigree is Wiggy.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
SiBolton (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 16:18
have to agree what we currently have isn't working ( and hasn't for a good few seasons) so what's the route cause?
I agree I don't think Minty is the man for the job at the moment, Tofty, JK and Colin are all nice blokes and are Quins through and through but are they working together, it always difficult in any business when your mates get promoted,
And I wonder if that's the problem
Do the players and the coaching staff all get on too well and sometimes don't listen to what's being told? Or just think " what do they know, I've been here just as long"
Do some players resent the fact that others join the club on better money than them? I'd imagine they do whether they admit it or not

There's a quote in a business book I read ages back called " The Chevy chase syndrome" he was told by a well known director that it might be good for his career if he made some key changes" Chevy chase apparently said " I don't need to change I'm Chevy chase and I'll always be in the movies" you don't see Chevy chase in many films anymore.
So when players have lifted trophies for England, Wales and the Lions etc what does a coach have to tell them to inspire them?
Maybe the route cause is attitude of some?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/04/2017 16:27 by SiBolton.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Cookie (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 16:29
I've long since thought that JK and MM don't command the respect a DOR or HC should. Neither have a great playing record and both are pretty much one club men (as far as coaching goes). They're replacing someone who was highly respected, was involved in the England set up and has gone to be an international coach, attracting Catt and Venter to go with him.

I listened to Baxter's interviews yesterday and he, like other coaches, was talking about specific tactics such as the way Exeter were kicking the ball into the wind. I also read his pre-match blurb on their website and it was insightful and comprehensive. What we get with JK and the tiresome in-game interviews with MM is mundane stuff like 'we need to be more clinical', 'we didn't lack effort' or (as yesterday) a simple 'don't know why'.

It feels to me that the jobs are too big for them. This is something Ellis needs to understand as well. You need only look around the top 6 at the class and experience needed at this level rather than our shop floor to board room approach.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
DOK (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 17:19
I thought we could easily have won that game last night. I don't want to pick on Barnes or Doyle, but the number of times they were offside was ridiculous. Let alone the forward passes that weren't seen and the knock ons ignored. Barnes has obviously taken a vow to never use the 4th official ever again.

The last three tries, while well taken by Exeter were basically lucky, but when you're winning luck seems to come your way.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 17:23
It's funny how some posters always blame the ref when we don't win - they seem to have got a lot wrong this season!

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 18:39
Quote:
The150
It's funny how some posters always blame the ref when we don't win - they seem to have got a lot wrong this season!

So you're saying that no ref has ever made a mistake when we've lost?

 
Re: It's Not All JK
arniepie (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 18:43
The coaching staff cannot legislate for 3 pieces of individual stupid play especially dc attempt to kick through when marland was on his shoulder in space, that was the only difference between us and them last night, as for the officials consistency is the issue and has been all season

 
Re: It's Not All JK
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 18:54
But only an issue for Quins?

 
Re: It's Not All JK
TitusQuin (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 19:07
Quote:
The Dead Baron
I'm not entirely sure Minty has any right being Defence Coach of a Premiership team either. Sure, he was a great player and a great servant of the club, but it does feel a lot like he was given the job in deference to that rather than his actual prove abilities. I think we'd be better of if he either got bumped to the Academy or else got subbed out to somewhere like Cobham or Esher to earn his stripes before being given a job at the sharp end. Actually, you could argue that the only member of the coaching team with any pedigree is Wiggy.

He did at Wimbledon for two years. In all honesty I actually think our defence was very good last night. They only created one try and the rest were either poor play by brown or lucky bounces.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Mayor West (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 19:33
I couldn't get to the game last night but have watched the replay of the game now. I did read the threads on here before I watched the rerun and wasn't expecting the type of game I watched. I concur with DOK. I thought we played some brilliant rugby and but for the bounce of the ball and the odd missed infringement we could have won that in style. Just a little bit more concentration and if Brownie had been on it we are there with the best. We had a lot of changes this year so I believe it will be better as the team gels and understands each other more. If the players are not together then why do they support each other so much when successful or if someone cocks up?

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 21:15
Quote:
Cookie
I've long since thought that JK and MM don't command the respect a DOR or HC should. Neither have a great playing record and both are pretty much one club men (as far as coaching goes). They're replacing someone who was highly respected, was involved in the England set up and has gone to be an international coach, attracting Catt and Venter to go with him.
I listened to Baxter's interviews yesterday and he, like other coaches, was talking about specific tactics such as the way Exeter were kicking the ball into the wind. I also read his pre-match blurb on their website and it was insightful and comprehensive. What we get with JK and the tiresome in-game interviews with MM is mundane stuff like 'we need to be more clinical', 'we didn't lack effort' or (as yesterday) a simple 'don't know why'.

It feels to me that the jobs are too big for them. This is something Ellis needs to understand as well. You need only look around the top 6 at the class and experience needed at this level rather than our shop floor to board room approach.

It's been mentioned elsewhere that JK is highly respected, although admitted not by a bunch of one-eyed trolls who inhabit CAW under frequently changing monickers. As for being successful players, that doesn't always work. Think Martin Johnson...

Rob Baxter played for Exeter for (I think) 15 years. Now he's DOR. That's what I'd call a one-club man. Eddie Jones was never capped and that doesn't seem to have hindered him. I don't think Jake White was ever capped or even played at a high level.

On the other hand, Tofty was capped by England, and JK was head coach of a Premiership winning team, and one that has won much silverware.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
BlueCap (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 21:30
Quinky Kin your last few words hit the nail on the head. We won silverware with JK as head coach.

Not as DoR.

That's the nub of the issue. He is a good coach but not a DoR.

There is no shame in accepting you have gone as far as you can. Bizarrely at work I don't want promotion because I feel I have gone as far as I can and also (due to personal circumstances) actually want to.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 21:43
Quote:
BlueCap
Quinky Kin your last few words hit the nail on the head. We won silverware with JK as head coach.
Not as DoR.

That's the nub of the issue. He is a good coach but not a DoR.

There is no shame in accepting you have gone as far as you can. Bizarrely at work I don't want promotion because I feel I have gone as far as I can and also (due to personal circumstances) actually want to.

Very true. But how many successful coaches transition to successful DoRs in their first season? It hasn't been a great season by any measure. But at present we're in a better position than the previous DoR left us, and he was definitely successful.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 22:09
Better position?

Time will tell but ....out in the pool stages of the 2nd tier European completion and with a real chance of finishing 9th in the league!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/04/2017 22:11 by The150.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 22:17
Quote:
The150
Better position?
Time will tell but ....out in the pool stages of the 2nd tier European completion and with a real chance of finishing 9th in the league!

Currently better. Which part of that is confusing you?

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 22:19
Quote:
That's the nub of the issue. He is a good coach but not a DoR.

Give the bloke a chance for heaven's sake. I swear some fans would be totally happy to see a merry-go-round of DORs if their club didn't win the league.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
The Dead Baron (IP Logged)
15 April, 2017 23:24
Quote:
TitusQuin
Quote:
The Dead Baron
I'm not entirely sure Minty has any right being Defence Coach of a Premiership team either. Sure, he was a great player and a great servant of the club, but it does feel a lot like he was given the job in deference to that rather than his actual prove abilities. I think we'd be better of if he either got bumped to the Academy or else got subbed out to somewhere like Cobham or Esher to earn his stripes before being given a job at the sharp end. Actually, you could argue that the only member of the coaching team with any pedigree is Wiggy.

He did at Wimbledon for two years. In all honesty I actually think our defence was very good last night. They only created one try and the rest were either poor play by brown or lucky bounces.

HE was at Wimbledon while he was still playing, and I don't think you can really cite Wimbledon as decent preparation for overseeing a Premiership team. And I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you about our defense yesterday. Sure, Exeter scored as a result of lucky bounces but our defence was still leaky by that stage in letting them through. I concede that other elements are also at play here - fitness being a biggie, I think, and skills (our handling this season has been.... suboptimal) - but really anyone who thinks Minty is a decent fit for Defence Coach the season he retires needs their bumps felt.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 02:52
Are you saying that he can't possibly be a good enough coach because he's only just retired from playing, or are you saying our defence isn't good enough this season so he's clearly not good enough as a coach?

Also, what do you know about his coaching specifically? Have you attended training sessions, or spoken to players about the defence coaching?

 
Re: It's Not All JK
never sleep (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 07:38
The one area that i think isn't working is Wiggy as forwards coach. We blew some real opportunities.
5m attacking lineout looked overly complex and was over thrown
1st half rolling mail sacked
2nd half catch and drive on 5m line resulted in penalty

 
Re: It's Not All JK
The Dead Baron (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 08:02
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Are you saying that he can't possibly be a good enough coach because he's only just retired from playing, or are you saying our defence isn't good enough this season so he's clearly not good enough as a coach?
Also, what do you know about his coaching specifically? Have you attended training sessions, or spoken to players about the defence coaching?

I'm saying that, in my own opinion, a player in his first season after retiring is unlikely to be able to slide into a role as a coach a Premiership level club and make a success of it. Also in my opinion, our defence has been a bit shaky. 1+1 = ..... I think any retired player - Minty or otherwise - should prove himself at a lower level of rugby for a few seasons before being given an opportunity to coach at top level. Dicko hasn't - and won't - start refereeing Premiership matches when he retires, he has to work his way up through the refereeing ranks, so why should it be any different for coaches?

Also, people seem very quick to blame our current woes on JK as DoR but seemingly a coach in his first season in the job after playing is untouchable? That's just illogical to me.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 09:03
Quote:
The Dead Baron
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Are you saying that he can't possibly be a good enough coach because he's only just retired from playing, or are you saying our defence isn't good enough this season so he's clearly not good enough as a coach?
Also, what do you know about his coaching specifically? Have you attended training sessions, or spoken to players about the defence coaching?

I'm saying that, in my own opinion, a player in his first season after retiring is unlikely to be able to slide into a role as a coach a Premiership level club and make a success of it. Also in my opinion, our defence has been a bit shaky. 1+1 = ..... I think any retired player - Minty or otherwise - should prove himself at a lower level of rugby for a few seasons before being given an opportunity to coach at top level. Dicko hasn't - and won't - start refereeing Premiership matches when he retires, he has to work his way up through the refereeing ranks, so why should it be any different for coaches?

Also, people seem very quick to blame our current woes on JK as DoR but seemingly a coach in his first season in the job after playing is untouchable? That's just illogical to me.

Dickson has already moved up the ranks and is already a national level referee (having officiated championship games). He may well get his first premiership game the first year after retirement.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Chief-cum-Lately (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 09:37
Far be it for me to intrude on what is obviously private grief however those on here commenting on Exeter's 'lucky trys' might be better reflecting on the old adage - 'Once is luck, twice is happenstance but three times is clearly enemy action'. Rob Baxter in his post match interview answered a question about Harlequins 'lucky' interception for their second try which, perhaps, sheds some light on the kind of enemy action involved.

Having said that we thoroughly enjoyed our first visit to the Stoop and the warm welcome from the Harlequins fans. Especially the two gentlemen who first stopped and then handed over their Taxi after the game when we discovered that cash has fallen out of use in Twickenham and we had no means of paying the bus fares. It was a great game and just a pity you couldn't finish with a bonus point (a losing bonus point obviously!)

(Sm128)

 
Re: It's Not All JK
The Dead Baron (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 09:53
Quote:
Adi Nako
Quote:
The Dead Baron
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Are you saying that he can't possibly be a good enough coach because he's only just retired from playing, or are you saying our defence isn't good enough this season so he's clearly not good enough as a coach?
Also, what do you know about his coaching specifically? Have you attended training sessions, or spoken to players about the defence coaching?

I'm saying that, in my own opinion, a player in his first season after retiring is unlikely to be able to slide into a role as a coach a Premiership level club and make a success of it. Also in my opinion, our defence has been a bit shaky. 1+1 = ..... I think any retired player - Minty or otherwise - should prove himself at a lower level of rugby for a few seasons before being given an opportunity to coach at top level. Dicko hasn't - and won't - start refereeing Premiership matches when he retires, he has to work his way up through the refereeing ranks, so why should it be any different for coaches?

Also, people seem very quick to blame our current woes on JK as DoR but seemingly a coach in his first season in the job after playing is untouchable? That's just illogical to me.

Dickson has already moved up the ranks and is already a national level referee (having officiated championship games). He may well get his first premiership game the first year after retirement.

Fair play Adi, I'll concede that point. But I think my general point stands - Dickson has spent an increasing amount of time refereeing and less and less time playing AND has worked his way up over a period of time. Never mind the playing side, Minty has gone from helping coach an ND3 (fifth tier) team to being a full time coach at a Premiership team in one move. That for me is less working your way up and earning your stripes, and more smacking of cronyism. Look, don't get me wrong, I'm all for Minty coaching but I think he needed to spend a couple of seasons honing his skills at a lower level first.

Anyhow, I don't want this to be seen as me bashing Minty. I just wanted to make the point that it's a bit rum hanging all the blame for Quins' current state on Dilbert when his coaches aren't exactly all top-drawer.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 16/04/2017 09:57 by The Dead Baron.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Mayor West (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 10:35
Do coaches have to gain any certification like they do in football before they can take a paid position?

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 12:40
Quote:
I'm saying that, in my own opinion, a player in his first season after retiring is unlikely to be able to slide into a role as a coach a Premiership level club and make a success of it.

Have you based your opinion on any evidence?

As it happens Diprose had an immediate impact as defence coach after he retired from playing.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
The Dead Baron (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 12:42
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Quote:
I'm saying that, in my own opinion, a player in his first season after retiring is unlikely to be able to slide into a role as a coach a Premiership level club and make a success of it.

Have you based your opinion on any evidence?

As it happens Diprose had an immediate impact as defence coach after he retired from playing.

Only what I've seen this season. But like I said, that's just my opinion.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 14:22
Quote:
The Dead Baron

Also, people seem very quick to blame our current woes on JK as DoR but seemingly a coach in his first season in the job after playing is untouchable? That's just illogical to me.

That's an unfair comparison, as some on here will blame JK regardless of facts or results!

 
Re: It's Not All JK
The Dead Baron (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 14:44
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
The Dead Baron

Also, people seem very quick to blame our current woes on JK as DoR but seemingly a coach in his first season in the job after playing is untouchable? That's just illogical to me.

That's an unfair comparison, as some on here will blame JK regardless of facts or results!

(Sm105)(Sm100)(Sm6)(Sm6)

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 16:32
Quote:
The Dead Baron
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
The Dead Baron

Also, people seem very quick to blame our current woes on JK as DoR but seemingly a coach in his first season in the job after playing is untouchable? That's just illogical to me.

That's an unfair comparison, as some on here will blame JK regardless of facts or results!

(Sm105)(Sm100)(Sm6)(Sm6)

smileys with beer

 
Re: It's Not All JK
kevin (IP Logged)
16 April, 2017 22:30
Quote:
The Dead Baron
Quote:
Adi Nako
Quote:
The Dead Baron
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Are you saying that he can't possibly be a good enough coach because he's only just retired from playing, or are you saying our defence isn't good enough this season so he's clearly not good enough as a coach?
Also, what do you know about his coaching specifically? Have you attended training sessions, or spoken to players about the defence coaching?

I'm saying that, in my own opinion, a player in his first season after retiring is unlikely to be able to slide into a role as a coach a Premiership level club and make a success of it. Also in my opinion, our defence has been a bit shaky. 1+1 = ..... I think any retired player - Minty or otherwise - should prove himself at a lower level of rugby for a few seasons before being given an opportunity to coach at top level. Dicko hasn't - and won't - start refereeing Premiership matches when he retires, he has to work his way up through the refereeing ranks, so why should it be any different for coaches?

Also, people seem very quick to blame our current woes on JK as DoR but seemingly a coach in his first season in the job after playing is untouchable? That's just illogical to me.

Dickson has already moved up the ranks and is already a national level referee (having officiated championship games). He may well get his first premiership game the first year after retirement.

Fair play Adi, I'll concede that point. But I think my general point stands - Dickson has spent an increasing amount of time refereeing and less and less time playing AND has worked his way up over a period of time. Never mind the playing side, Minty has gone from helping coach an ND3 (fifth tier) team to being a full time coach at a Premiership team in one move. That for me is less working your way up and earning your stripes, and more smacking of cronyism. Look, don't get me wrong, I'm all for Minty coaching but I think he needed to spend a couple of seasons honing his skills at a lower level first.

Anyhow, I don't want this to be seen as me bashing Minty. I just wanted to make the point that it's a bit rum hanging all the blame for Quins' current state on Dilbert when his coaches aren't exactly all top-drawer.
TDB I suggested this some while ago but the fervent few didn't like it ! Good luck.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
DOK (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 11:17
Actually, having seen the highlights last night, four maybe five of those tries had nothing to do with coaching. Brown was unfortunately responsible for two of them, the big jump that he missed and the terrible pass. The one where Danny Care kicked ahead, and he and Marlon were going so fast they were easily side stepped and left a big hole. The one where Exeter kicked through and got a lucky sideways bounce of the ball...

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 11:34
We missed 14 tackles and made 12 clean breaks on Friday.

Exeter only made 10 clean breaks and missed 40 tackles.

[en.espn.co.uk]

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 11:44
Quote:
DOK
Actually, having seen the highlights last night, four maybe five of those tries had nothing to do with coaching. Brown was unfortunately responsible for two of them, the big jump that he missed and the terrible pass. The one where Danny Care kicked ahead, and he and Marlon were going so fast they were easily side stepped and left a big hole. The one where Exeter kicked through and got a lucky sideways bounce of the ball...

Yes.

Though against Saracens, for example, the defensive system was definitely exposed practically from the start.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 12:06
Quote:
The Dead Baron
I concede that other elements are also at play here - fitness being a biggie, I think, and skills (our handling this season has been.... suboptimal)...

Some of the handling during the game was sublime, with multiple offloads, pop passes and driving possession.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 13:30
Quote:
DOK
Actually, having seen the highlights last night, four maybe five of those tries had nothing to do with coaching. Brown was unfortunately responsible for two of them, the big jump that he missed and the terrible pass. The one where Danny Care kicked ahead, and he and Marlon were going so fast they were easily side stepped and left a big hole. The one where Exeter kicked through and got a lucky sideways bounce of the ball...

As Simon, who sits in front of me said directly after the final whistle, "None of that can be blamed on the coaches".

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Hellequin (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 13:58
It depends if you see the job of the coaching team as making sure the players don't lose control under pressure. The problem we seem to have is that once we fall behind we chase the game and start to lose composure, start dropping the ball and looking for miracle plays which leads to more points given away and our lack of losing bonus points this season.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 14:00
I suppose it also depends on whether you think players have any responsibility for anything at all.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 14:03
If the coaches - led by the DOR - don't put any sort of structure / game plan in place it is very difficult for players to react in a positive way COLLECTIVELY under pressure - as JK said at the end of the game "I have no idea why we lost"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/04/2017 17:07 by The150.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 16:58
It would also be really awkward playing in suits and ties.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Cookie (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 18:49
I'm sorry, but the coaches have to take responsibility. We are devoid of confidence.

Earlier in the season we slept for 60-70 mins and staged comebacks that got us a win (e.g. Glos), or BPs (e.g. Newcastle) or cling on for a win (e.g. Sarries, Sale). These are just ones off the top of my head.

Now we've moved to playing for 60-70 mins and then imploding.

Individual errors are exactly that, but there seems a lack of confidence running through the club. You can see it when the players get nervous. You can see it in JK's interviews when he can't explain what went wrong. You can see it in our generally poor discipline on the pitch when panic substitutes for confidence. Can anyone explain why the recently excellent Ward was left on the bench when Wallace was clearly blowing??

Sure, the players need to take some responsibility. But, for me, the virus in the club is the lack of belief in the coaching.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
SiBolton (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 18:58
If that's the case and it's really just to do with the coaching how do you explain the decline after 2012, with the same coaching set up that won the Prem, Amlin, got through to Semi of Heineken etc?
Surely those players had faith due to previous achievements?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/04/2017 19:01 by SiBolton.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 19:39
Quote:
SiBolton
If that's the case and it's really just to do with the coaching how do you explain the decline after 2012, with the same coaching set up that won the Prem, Amlin, got through to Semi of Heineken etc?
Surely those players had faith due to previous achievements?

We didn't evolve and others caught us up - maybe JK should have stayed in 2012 but the world moves on - he hasn't and the club has suffered as s result. He's not a coach / DOR for the future and the last couple of seasons have highlighted this, yet he was promoted! Crazy!

Plus as Head Coach JK would have been given direction and structure by credable, respected and well liked DORs in Deano and COS. The current coaching set up is led by someone who is completely out of his depth. You need something to believe in - JK doesn't give the players that as highlighted by his recent (and very unfortunate) post match interviews and behind the scenes documentary.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 17/04/2017 19:49 by The150.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
DOK (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 20:11
I gather you've never actually talked to him, T150.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 20:16
I have spoken to him , listened to him and chatted to the CEO.

JK is rude, a bully and arragont - at the Cardiff away game (Challenge Cup) he almost had a fight with the home supporters as they took a little time to let him pass to his seat in the stand - it was embarrassing.

COS had to hold him back....he is not the kind of role model we need at this club.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/04/2017 20:20 by The150.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 20:25
I agree with the point about fresh ideas. When COS left I wanted someone outside of the current set up appointed, to come in and shake things up/fresh input. I think we missed a good opportunity to do that. We got GR but I don't think it was enough. My own view is that we have become too "cosy" and "comfortable".

 
Re: It's Not All JK
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 20:26
I agree HT 100% - Cosy across the board from board room to the gym and the pitch.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 20:32
Quote:
Hellequin
It depends if you see the job of the coaching team as making sure the players don't lose control under pressure. The problem we seem to have is that once we fall behind we chase the game and start to lose composure, start dropping the ball and looking for miracle plays which leads to more points given away and our lack of losing bonus points this season.

Could that be down to the players not "believing" or "buying into" what they are doing?. If the team falls behind, should they have confidence enough in what they are doing to believe if they stick to the plans/process it will come right (or at least give them a chance to get back). You shouldn't go behind and then drop everything, what you have planned for. This isn't a dig at JK or the coaches btw



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/04/2017 20:35 by HonkyTonk.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 20:36
Quote:
The150

Plus as Head Coach JK would have been given direction and structure by credable, respected and well liked DORs in Deano and COS. The current coaching set up is led by someone who is completely out of his depth.

So the poast 3 seasons JK was led by the credible, respected and well-liked COS. And our league finishes steadily got worse.

I'm picking up on something here... you don't like JK, do you? It's no use hiding it! Some of us are perceptive to these things.

Perhaps you could start a poll to see how many people have noticed?

 
Re: It's Not All JK
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 20:44
So surely not a reason to promote the Head Coach based on what you say above QT?

 
Re: It's Not All JK
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 20:47
I would say the problems set in under COS and continued after he left. I do not see it as any real surprise it continued as basically, there has been no real change in the coaching set up, more like re arranging the deck chairs.
We don't seem to have any direction, changing the captains (both of whom were the wrong choice) just seemed like a phase for the sake of it.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 20:48
Quote:
SiBolton
If that's the case and it's really just to do with the coaching how do you explain the decline after 2012, with the same coaching set up that won the Prem, Amlin, got through to Semi of Heineken etc?
Surely those players had faith due to previous achievements?

When did we get to a semi final in the H Cup?

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 20:55
Quote:
The150
Quote:
SiBolton
If that's the case and it's really just to do with the coaching how do you explain the decline after 2012, with the same coaching set up that won the Prem, Amlin, got through to Semi of Heineken etc?
Surely those players had faith due to previous achievements?

When did we get to a semi final in the H Cup?

When did inaccuracy bother you? Around the time that Mike Brown re-signed perhaps?

 
Re: It's Not All JK
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2017 20:57
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
The150
Quote:
SiBolton
If that's the case and it's really just to do with the coaching how do you explain the decline after 2012, with the same coaching set up that won the Prem, Amlin, got through to Semi of Heineken etc?
Surely those players had faith due to previous achievements?

When did we get to a semi final in the H Cup?

When did inaccuracy bother you? Around the time that Mike Brown re-signed perhaps?

These sorts of posts are probably best picked up with PMs rather than derailing the rest of the conversation QK.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 10:19
You've already made the thread about you again, so that's a bit rich.


Cookie: The team looked confident against Exeter. If anything overconfidence cost us tries.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Cookie (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 10:24
Not sure I agree with that, JG. The tries at the end came from kicking away possession, the nervous allowing of a high ball to bounce and a desperate attempt to right that wrong by MB.

When push came to shove, our basics fell down.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Cookie (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 10:38
Just watched the highlights and have to take it back about the penultimate try and allowing the ball to bounce. It didn't go as high as I remember and it was always going to land in open space. Lucky bounce.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 10:44
Quote:
Cookie
Not sure I agree with that, JG. The tries at the end came from kicking away possession, the nervous allowing of a high ball to bounce and a desperate attempt to right that wrong by MB.
When push came to shove, our basics fell down.

"Kicking away possession" is a funny way of saying that Danny Care broke down the right and tried a marginal play to try and score, mind...

There were no nerves involved in letting the high ball bounce, it was a communication issue - no-one panicked in that situation. And Brown tried to throw a long pass and got picked off.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Cookie (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 11:03
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Cookie
Not sure I agree with that, JG. The tries at the end came from kicking away possession, the nervous allowing of a high ball to bounce and a desperate attempt to right that wrong by MB.
When push came to shove, our basics fell down.

"Kicking away possession" is a funny way of saying that Danny Care broke down the right and tried a marginal play to try and score, mind...

There were no nerves involved in letting the high ball bounce, it was a communication issue - no-one panicked in that situation. And Brown tried to throw a long pass and got picked off.

It was a terrible kick by DC that was almost certain to turnover ball. As he'd also gone down the blindside and Marland went past the ball with him, we were left exposed. Dealt with the other 2 above. Maintain that we largely lost composure and panicked at crunch time.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 11:06
You'll never convince me that a DC blindside break from a scrum where he puts a grubber in shows lack of confidence, sorry. Totally counter-intuitive.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Dave L (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 11:07
DC's kick was poor decision making. Not a lack of confidence!

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Cookie (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 11:10
You similarly can't tell me it was in our game plan. It should have been (and I'm sure it was) our game plan to keep hold of the ball. Running away from support and kicking the ball away was the opposite of what we needed, but goes to my point that we panicked.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
DOK (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 11:46
Quote:
Dave L
DC's kick was poor decision making. Not a lack of confidence!

The execution was poor, the idea was good. With him and Marlon both speeding down on it it could well have led to a score.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Dave L (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 11:48
Would argue that it's still poor decision making going for the Hail Mary option again!

 
Re: It's Not All JK
DOK (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 11:51
It wasn't a Hail Mary option when Exeter scored by doing the same! smiling smiley

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 12:25
It was one of those kicks which result in either a great score, or a horrible reverse. Sadly it was the latter.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Cookie (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 12:47
It was an extremely low percentage kick. DC and Yarde were both marked and the full back was covering. By the time Woodburn fields the kick, there are 6 Chiefs in the area and just our 2 boys. Can't see how we could have scored and clearly the rest of the team weren't expecting it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/04/2017 12:47 by Cookie.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 14:47
I never claimed it was in the game plan - why are you moving those goalposts? It was a DC off the cuff moment - the sort of thing he's done throughout his career and when it works it makes him an incredible genius and all that.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Cookie (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 14:59
Fair point. What I meant was it was an example of buckling under pressure. We started making basic errors which, IMO, were borne out of panic.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
DOK (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 15:21
Well, we start trying things we don't usually do, certainly. Not sure I call that buckling. Trouble is if you don't regularly do them, then execution under pressure is likely to be poor. They probably work every time on the training pitch, so trying them seems a good idea.

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 15:44
Also, it's Danny. It's what he does.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: It's Not All JK
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 22:44
With a different bounce, the Exe player isn't given an early Easter Egg, but a bubbler on the ground and he gets hammered by Care and Yarde.

If you're looking for Quins doing badly, you'll see it everywhere. I didn't win the lottery - JK out!

 
Re: It's Not All JK
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:26
Good teams don't rely on luck to win games.

Anyone watching Slade's try and blaming that on bad luck should ask themselves - how often does a kick like that bounce in that much space beyond U12 level? That was a pathetic try to concede. I expect to see JK blaming the bounce of the ball, but it saddens me to see supporters doing so too.

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