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Lions announcement
blucherquin (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:08
Backs

Biggar, Daley, Davies, Farrell, Halfpenny, Henshaw, Hogg, Joseph, Murray, North, Knowle, Payne, Sexton, Seymour, Te'o, Watson, Webb, Williams, Youngs

 
Re: Lions announcement
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:10
Joseph going. Lots of trolling.

Payne!

 
Re: Lions announcement
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:11
No Robshaw eye rolling smiley

 
Re: Lions announcement
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:12
Rory Best, Dan Cole, Taulupe Faletau, Tadhg Furlong, Jamie George, Iain Henderson, Maro Itoje, Alun Wyn Jones, George Kruis, Courtney Lawes, Joe Marler, Jack McGrath, Ross Moriarty, Sean O’Brien, Peter O’Mahony, Ken Owens, Kyle Sinckler, CJ Stander, Justin Tipuric, Mako Vunipola, Billy Vunipola, Sam Warburton (captain).

 
Re: Lions announcement
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:14
Congrats to Kyle and Joe. Cannot believe that Moriarty, SOB, POM, Henderson and Warburton are all preferred to Robshaw. He and Launchbury can be rightly disgusted.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:14
Blucher - you won't have to finish that sausage now...

 
Re: Lions announcement
DazzaS (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:17
I'm not excited with the tour now I have seen the squad.Looking forward to the England tour though

 
Re: Lions announcement
Dave L (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:19
Congrats to Kyle and Joe! Mostly good but some stinkers in there as well.

AWJ? Yesterday's man if ever there was one. Launchbury and Jonny Gray can feel suitably hacked off. Halfpenny? Behave. Henderson picked based on the England game of course!

 
Re: Lions announcement
harlequinade (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:19
Robshaw missing out is a travesty!



You can have anything in life, if you will sacrifice everything else for it

 
Re: Lions announcement
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:24
And much as Brown wasn't expected to travel, having Payne in ahead of him is pretty hilarious too.

 
Re: Lions announcement
dancing quin (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:24
Where is the spark and creativity in that squad to beat the AB's twice in 3 games on their own patch?? To pick 2 run-of-the-mill players like Biggar and Farrell but not Finn Russell shows you the way the Lions will play. I'm not that surprised though, when you pick two dull coaches like Borthwick and Farrell Snr they will always pick the Orcs. And to omit Launchbury and Robshaw is laughable. 3-0 whitewash for the AB's.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Dave L (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:26
Quote:
dancing quin
Where is the spark and creativity in that squad to beat the AB's twice in 3 games on their own patch?? To pick 2 run-of-the-mill players like Biggar and Farrell but not Finn Russell shows you the way the Lions will play. I'm not that surprised though, when you pick two dull coaches like Borthwick and Farrell Snr they will always pick the Orcs. And to omit Launchbury and Robshaw is laughable. 3-0 whitewash for the AB's.

I see what you mean but Farrell isn't a run of the mill player, nor any evidence that Borthwick is a dull coach. Agree with the rest though.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Quinoids (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:52
Farrell is anything but run of the mill - and to say that about a Saracens player makes me writhe!

Cannot understand how Launchbury and Robshaw aren't there. Excited to see us thown the Sink at them.....

 
Re: Lions announcement
thomh (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 12:11
I find Biggar over Ford very strange, if only because getting the team to gel at short notice will be a huge challenge, and Ford and Farrell are a proven familiar partnership to go with if other options in the backline aren't really working.

It's not a horrible squad but there are a few exceptional players who have missed out to old favourites. I also can't imagine Scotland fans will be feeling too positive about the whole thing.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 12:15
Warburton as captain is almost as ridiculous as the Walesconfused smileycotland ratio.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 12:32
12 welsh (29%)
2 Scots (5%)
16 English (39%)
11 Irish (27%)

Does this feel like a fair mix on the last 2 years? Not to me.

 
Re: Lions announcement
NicoWilson (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 12:40
Quote:
Banstead Quin
12 welsh (29%)
2 Scots (5%)
16 English (39%)
11 Irish (27%)

Does this feel like a fair mix on the last 2 years? Not to me.

Some obvious disparity here:

England - 16 players - winners of 6 Nations + ranked 2nd in the world
Wales - 12 players - 5th place in 6 Nations + ranked 8th in the world
Ireland - 11 players - 2nd place in 6 Nations + ranked 4th in the world
Scotland - 2 players - 4th place in 6 Nations + ranked 5th in the world

 
Re: Lions announcement
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 12:50
Nice addition Nico.

I'm sure it's not about that though, it's more about bonding as a team and you can only do that if you have a welsh buddy!!!!!

We'll have to wait and see who is on the reserve list I suppose and see if the balance get's re-dressed then.

Robshaw, Launch, Brown, Gray the elder, Ford, Maitland, Visser, The Scottish prop who's been injured, Laidlaw, etc

 
Re: Lions announcement
T-Bone (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 12:52
Hmmm, he was never going but gutted for Robshaw. Really should be involved. Misses out due to decision making as captain for England, rather than his playing ability over the last 8 years.

Launcbury missing out while Henderson goes is pretty stupid.

No problem with Hartley missing out.

Brown was never likely to go as he doesn't offer back 3 versatility, and if he was in the mix then Friday night will not have helped, but he should be ahead of Halfpenny.

Very pleased that the no JJ, Roberts in rumours were nonsense.

Moriarty a surprise but deserved, but should be there ahead of Faletau.

Payne is bizarre. Biggar is one for the boys.

Probably should be more Scots, but they still can't win the big games, just don't have the mentality. Also, the players would never believe they could beat the All Blacks. Then again only the Irish and English ones probably do believe that. I wonder if Gatland does.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Cookie (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 12:55
Quote:
T-Bone
Hmmm, he was never going but gutted for Robshaw. Really should be involved. Misses out due to decision making as captain for England, rather than his playing ability over the last 8 years.
Launcbury missing out while Henderson goes is pretty stupid.

No problem with Hartley missing out.

Brown was never likely to go as he doesn't offer back 3 versatility, and if he was in the mix then Friday night will not have helped, but he should be ahead of Halfpenny.

Very pleased that the no JJ, Roberts in rumours were nonsense.

Moriarty a surprise but deserved, but should be there ahead of Faletau.

Payne is bizarre. Biggar is one for the boys.

Probably should be more Scots, but they still can't win the big games, just don't have the mentality. Also, the players would never believe they could beat the All Blacks. Then again only the Irish and English ones probably do believe that. I wonder if Gatland does.

Agree 100% with all of this.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Dave L (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 12:59
I'd have Kearney, Brown and Goode ahead of 1/2p. Him and Biggar are really odd selections.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 13:06
Moriarty deserved? He had a good 60 minutes in defence against England and was second best in every other match. There's light years in class and impact between him and Robshaw.

Loads of mediocre Welsh players going purely on reputation, too.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Lions announcement
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 13:13
It's the same with Stander. Outstanding against Italy and average elsewhere.

#nepotistgatland

 
Re: Lions announcement
Rocker (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 13:38
Nepotism, but did we expect any different? I didn't. I'll not have to whey too much about getting up at silly o'clock in the morning to watch the Lions matches now...

 
Re: Lions announcement
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 13:42
Launch is the one I feely truly sorry for...

Still, there are a few more games for many of those players - especially Sarries' contingent - there will be injuries.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 13:51
Plus there's no doubt going to be some injuries on the tour, so more possible call-ups of the players on the other tours...

 
Re: Lions announcement
T-Bone (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 13:59
Assume Shane Williams will be heading down there in case they need a last minute replacement again

Wonder how far down the order Robshaw is if they need replacements. Be interesting to know. Lydiate, Heaslip, Watson, Wood, Haskell

 
Re: Lions announcement
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 14:08
Quote:
Banstead Quin
It's the same with Stander. Outstanding against Italy and average elsewhere.
#nepotistgatland

Stander's been a stand-out for Ireland for over a year. He's an entirely valid pick. He and Robshaw are the best blindsides in the NH by a long way.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Lions announcement
TW Quin (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 14:14
Quote:
Jammy Git
Moriarty deserved? He had a good 60 minutes in defence against England and was second best in every other match. There's light years in class and impact between him and Robshaw.
Loads of mediocre Welsh players going purely on reputation, too.

Oh dear Welsh bias again.

Robshaw is a top class team player and should be in the squad.

Not seen him but does anyone know if Gatland came to any recent games at the Stoop?

 
Re: Lions announcement
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 14:24
Quote:
TW Quin
Not seen him but does anyone know if Gatland came to any recent games at the Stoop?

Only to see how Adam Jones has been playing...(which has been very well) (Sm100)

 
Re: Lions announcement
Quinoids (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 14:30
Now we know the squad.....my 23 for the first test
1. Marler
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. Vunipola (cool smiley
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg
16. Vunipola (M)
17. Owens
18. Sinkler
19. Jones (A.W)
20. O' Mahoney
21. Webb
22. Davies
23. Nowell

 
Re: Lions announcement
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 14:41
Quote:
Quinoids
Now we know the squad.....my 23 for the first test
1. Marler
2. Best
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Stander
7. Warburton
8. Vunipola (cool smiley
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. North
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg
16. Vunipola (M)
17. Owens
18. Sinkler
19. Jones (A.W)
20. O' Mahoney
21. Webb
22. Davies
23. Nowell

Fairly similar for me, but I'd perhaps go with McGrath over Marler (just a bit cooler under pressure) and Williams over Watson.

I'd also definitely have George in the squad, possibly starting, and would have Lawes and Te'o on the bench over AWJ and Davies. Not sure how much of an impact sub O'Mahoney would be so maybe Faletau involved on the bench.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Cookie (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 14:51
A bit of a hybrid of what I'd like and what I expect. Two in brackets will start, but shouldn't.

Vunipola
Owens
Furlong
Lawes (AW Jones)
Itoje
Stander
Warburton
Vunipola
Murray
Sexton
Daly
Farrell
Joseph (J Davies)
North
Hogg

Marler
George
Sinckler
Kruis
Faletau
O'Brien
Webb
Te'o

 
Re: Lions announcement
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 15:31
6 Saracens tourists. 2 Scottish tourists.

 
Re: Lions announcement
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 21:21
Quote:
T-Bone
Hmmm, he was never going but gutted for Robshaw. Really should be involved. Misses out due to decision making as captain for England, rather than his playing ability over the last 8 years.
Launcbury missing out while Henderson goes is pretty stupid.

No problem with Hartley missing out.

Brown was never likely to go as he doesn't offer back 3 versatility, and if he was in the mix then Friday night will not have helped, but he should be ahead of Halfpenny.

Very pleased that the no JJ, Roberts in rumours were nonsense.

Moriarty a surprise but deserved, but should be there ahead of Faletau.

Payne is bizarre. Biggar is one for the boys.

Probably should be more Scots, but they still can't win the big games, just don't have the mentality. Also, the players would never believe they could beat the All Blacks. Then again only the Irish and English ones probably do believe that. I wonder if Gatland does.

Somebody didn't watch the 6N beyond the England games.

Moriarty did nothing during the rest of the tournament.

Scotland beat Wales and Ireland. Pretty big games.

The Welsh players are just as unlikely to believe they can beat the ABs.

 
Re: Lions announcement
T-Bone (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 21:51
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Quote:
T-Bone
Hmmm, he was never going but gutted for Robshaw. Really should be involved. Misses out due to decision making as captain for England, rather than his playing ability over the last 8 years.
Launcbury missing out while Henderson goes is pretty stupid.

No problem with Hartley missing out.

Brown was never likely to go as he doesn't offer back 3 versatility, and if he was in the mix then Friday night will not have helped, but he should be ahead of Halfpenny.

Very pleased that the no JJ, Roberts in rumours were nonsense.

Moriarty a surprise but deserved, but should be there ahead of Faletau.

Payne is bizarre. Biggar is one for the boys.

Probably should be more Scots, but they still can't win the big games, just don't have the mentality. Also, the players would never believe they could beat the All Blacks. Then again only the Irish and English ones probably do believe that. I wonder if Gatland does.

Somebody didn't watch the 6N beyond the England games.

Moriarty did nothing during the rest of the tournament.

Scotland beat Wales and Ireland. Pretty big games.

The Welsh players are just as unlikely to believe they can beat the ABs.

Your idea of a big game is different from mine rodders.

Also said I imagine only English and Irish believe they can beat them, hence Wales probably can't

 
Re: Lions announcement
Rocker (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 22:50
Halfpenny, biggar and moriaty should be nowhere near the squad. Not sure Warburton deserves the nod as captain particularly when he's already injured. He's not even the best 7 in Wales...

 
Re: Lions announcement
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 07:30
Hasn't taken long for Gusset to mess his pants with some shoddy "journalism": has Marler down in his starting line up as tight head...

[m.bbc.co.uk]

They've changed it round now...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/04/2017 09:57 by Bolly-Quin.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 07:54
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Banstead Quin
It's the same with Stander. Outstanding against Italy and average elsewhere.
#nepotistgatland

Stander's been a stand-out for Ireland for over a year. He's an entirely valid pick. He and Robshaw are the best blindsides in the NH by a long way.

Sorry Jammy, didn't see him at all against Scotland or France and that was after the big build up by the pundits and didn't impact the game against us anymore than anyone else on either side. Robshaw has been consistent over 6 years and 2 Lions windows. Stander hasn't so I think my observation is fair.

As for injuries, does anyone on here really think the welsh will get injured as none of them have anything to play for at club level so I doubt if they'll even play between now and probably the 3rd warm up game? I'll keep an eye on it.

 
Re: Lions announcement
giffardfs (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 08:54
Quote:
TW Quin
Quote:
Jammy Git
Moriarty deserved? He had a good 60 minutes in defence against England and was second best in every other match. There's light years in class and impact between him and Robshaw.
Loads of mediocre Welsh players going purely on reputation, too.

Oh dear Welsh bias again.

Robshaw is a top class team player and should be in the squad.

Not seen him but does anyone know if Gatland came to any recent games at the Stoop?

Oh the irony!

 
Re: Lions announcement
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 09:40
Quote:
Banstead Quin
Sorry Jammy, didn't see him at all against Scotland or France and that was after the big build up by the pundits and didn't impact the game against us anymore than anyone else on either side. Robshaw has been consistent over 6 years and 2 Lions windows. Stander hasn't so I think my observation is fair.

Stander was great in the 2016 6N. He had a cracking set of AIs, too. Got sent off against SA in the summer but them's the breaks.

If you didn't see him at all against France I'm not sure what you were watching - it's difficult to imagine you missed all of his 23(!) carries, 13 tackles, and 3 lineout takes...

Against Scotland it was 24 carries(!!) and 11 tackles, with 4 lineout takes.

The guy's a machine, an absolute bull of a carrier and doesn't shirk responsibility elsewhere.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Lions announcement
Cookie (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 09:49
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Banstead Quin
Sorry Jammy, didn't see him at all against Scotland or France and that was after the big build up by the pundits and didn't impact the game against us anymore than anyone else on either side. Robshaw has been consistent over 6 years and 2 Lions windows. Stander hasn't so I think my observation is fair.

Stander was great in the 2016 6N. He had a cracking set of AIs, too. Got sent off against SA in the summer but them's the breaks.

If you didn't see him at all against France I'm not sure what you were watching - it's difficult to imagine you missed all of his 23(!) carries, 13 tackles, and 3 lineout takes...

Against Scotland it was 24 carries(!!) and 11 tackles, with 4 lineout takes.

The guy's a machine, an absolute bull of a carrier and doesn't shirk responsibility elsewhere.

Agreed. For me he's one of the few certainties to start the first test. Think only he, Sexton, Hogg and Farrell are lock ins at the moment and the others are only certain because the options in those positions are our weakest areas.

 
Re: Lions announcement
thomh (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 10:18
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Banstead Quin
Sorry Jammy, didn't see him at all against Scotland or France and that was after the big build up by the pundits and didn't impact the game against us anymore than anyone else on either side. Robshaw has been consistent over 6 years and 2 Lions windows. Stander hasn't so I think my observation is fair.

Stander was great in the 2016 6N. He had a cracking set of AIs, too. Got sent off against SA in the summer but them's the breaks.

If you didn't see him at all against France I'm not sure what you were watching - it's difficult to imagine you missed all of his 23(!) carries, 13 tackles, and 3 lineout takes...

Against Scotland it was 24 carries(!!) and 11 tackles, with 4 lineout takes.

The guy's a machine, an absolute bull of a carrier and doesn't shirk responsibility elsewhere.

Agreed. For me he's one of the few certainties to start the first test. Think only he, Sexton, Hogg and Farrell are lock ins at the moment and the others are only certain because the options in those positions are our weakest areas.

Certainty to start if they go with a classic blindside, as he's ahead of Moriarty. I do think there's a good chance that Lawes or Itoje ends up there though.

 
Re: Lions announcement
T-Bone (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 11:24
A few articles / opinions coming out now about surprise omissions, players unlucky to miss out, etc. Along with Launchbury, Robshaw, Brown, Gray brothers and a few others, Roberts is now cropping up. Martyn Williams said it was a brutal way to find out, by having to watch the announcement. But the only reason it is anything of a surprise is because this unbelievable rumour cropped up at the last minute. Prior to that I don't think anyone thought he would be anywhere near, so why he should feel hard done by is beyond me.

I would love to know where the rumour came from though

 
Re: Lions announcement
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 11:28
Perhaps he'd been negotiating a new contract...(Sm100)

 
Re: Lions announcement
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 11:40
Quote:
T-Bone
A few articles / opinions coming out now about surprise omissions, players unlucky to miss out, etc. Along with Launchbury, Robshaw, Brown, Gray brothers and a few others, Roberts is now cropping up. Martyn Williams said it was a brutal way to find out, by having to watch the announcement. But the only reason it is anything of a surprise is because this unbelievable rumour cropped up at the last minute. Prior to that I don't think anyone thought he would be anywhere near, so why he should feel hard done by is beyond me.
I would love to know where the rumour came from though

I have absolutely no idea where it came from, but I guess that if Te'o is going, Roberts may also have a chance. To be honest to me the rumour that Roberts was going was far less strange than that of Joseph not going.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 13:55
Yeah Mike Brown made 18 carries and 9 tackles and beat 6 defenders against Exeter would you say he had a good game Jammy or Cookie?

Anyway, I had heard all about this dynamic No.6 and was intrigued to watch him and see what all of the fuss was about. He didn't stand out and then got his tries against Italy and they were all purring about him so I watched the next game and ok he got his hands on the ball a few times but it wasn't like watching a Robshaw or a Hill.

Will confess that I don't watch all his games so I may be wrong but can only say what I see.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Cookie (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 14:09
To be fair on this Brown issue which cropped us elsewhere, I raised the last 3 tries against Exeter as examples of us losing our basics under pressure. I immediately said that the kick for the 2nd wasn't necessarily his fault as it was an odd kick (albeit there was a large space to hit) but that his last pass was awful. We then discussed Care's kick at length. I wasn't digging him out, I was making a general point.

But I just don't understand the view on Stander. He's a different 6 to Robshaw - his carrying his far stronger. And comparing anyone with Hill isn't going to end well for that player!

 
Re: Lions announcement
thomh (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 14:11
Quote:
T-Bone
A few articles / opinions coming out now about surprise omissions, players unlucky to miss out, etc. Along with Launchbury, Robshaw, Brown, Gray brothers and a few others, Roberts is now cropping up. Martyn Williams said it was a brutal way to find out, by having to watch the announcement. But the only reason it is anything of a surprise is because this unbelievable rumour cropped up at the last minute[i][/i]. Prior to that I don't think anyone thought he would be anywhere near, so why he should feel hard done by is beyond me.
I would love to know where the rumour came from though

In fairness I think that's all Williams meant - that Roberts would have seen the rumour and got his hopes up, and therefore that it would have been a bigger blow when he wasn't selected. I don't think he was necessarily saying that Roberts was hard done by in terms of the non-selection per se.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 14:22
Quote:
Banstead Quin
Yeah Mike Brown made 18 carries and 9 tackles and beat 6 defenders against Exeter would you say he had a good game Jammy or Cookie?

I'm not sure I get your point. I'm certain you didn't get mine. Stander stood out because he was the go-to guy with ball in hand, time and again, and he's a hugely effective tight carrier. Not noticing that is odd.

Everyone noticed Brown get the ball a lot (fullbacks are very, very likely to have high carrying stats). Everyone also noticed how often he messed up, which is also recorded in the stats :|


Quote:
Anyway, I had heard all about this dynamic No.6 and was intrigued to watch him and see what all of the fuss was about. He didn't stand out and then got his tries against Italy and they were all purring about him so I watched the next game and ok he got his hands on the ball a few times but it wasn't like watching a Robshaw or a Hill.
Will confess that I don't watch all his games so I may be wrong but can only say what I see.

He's not like Hill or Robshaw. He's a monster ball carrier who is just relentless. He hits hard in defence, carries all day long, and can take lineout ball. What he does, he does brilliantly.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Lions announcement
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 15:34
Chris Robshaw is a good player and you can prefer him to Stander but, to say stander can't be compared to him is laughable to me. Stander regularly makes 20+ carries and 10+ tackles every game in addition to being a very good line out forward and was part of the team that completely outplayed the New Zealand backrow in Chicago

 
Re: Lions announcement
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 15:36
Also as good as Robshaw is, he is no Richard Hill and comparing them is pointless. Richard Hill was the best back row forward in the Northern Hemisphere in his prime and probably the world. Robshaw while very good is no where near that

 
Re: Lions announcement
ChequeredJersey2 (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 17:45
Hill is the best 6 ever, IMO

Robshaw is fantastic but currently only the best 6 in the 6 Nations

 
Re: Lions announcement
Mayor West (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 20:12
Can Dr Roberts be that upset about not being selected as he has already been on two lions tours. Robbo however..... As far as I can tell, nobody has come up with a reason as to why Robbo isn't selected, only why others might have been. Has anybody got stats comparing the sixes who played in their last six internationals? Te'o is being taken to take on SBW whom he has played against in league, so I've heard.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 20:52
A bit overplayed now but still makes me smile.

[www.ruck.co.uk]

 
Re: Lions announcement
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 07:03
I don't think we're violently disagreeing here and I wasn't trying to compare someone ho has been around for 2 seasons, internationally, to the greatest 6 ever in the northern hemisphere, my point was that he and Robshaw are so visible to me when I watch games and Stander isn't. Now, as I said above, I haven't seen all of his games so I accept that I'm not a foremost expert. The win over NZ in Chicago is a nonsense reference point as they failed to match that form afterwards, as shown against Scotland and wales and can be seen as upping their game which does happen the same as when we last beat them at HQ when some bloke called Tuilagi ran riot and Robshaw and Wood dominated them.

I'm also not trying to advocate that he shouldn't tour, that criticism is more aimed at Warburton but let's see what he does and if he can repeat the performance in 3 tests against the All Black's that he did in Chicago.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 08:29
Ah fair enough Banstead, I think the team failed to replicate those performances but Stander was probably been their best player in those losses and to me the best and most consistent irish player since he made his debut and i really think should be their 8 over Heaslip with O'mahoney at 6.


I think it probably came down to Robshaw and Moriarty and i guess he went with the younger guy in Moriarty or maybe he does not like Robshaw who is more of an all around player as opposed to being really great at any one thing like o'mahoney is at line outs and the breakdown and people see moriarty with defending

 
Re: Lions announcement
Cookie (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 09:52
Not sure what Robshaw isn't good at! Good in the lineout, always top tackler, gets turnovers and carries ok (although not as strong as others mentioned). He's no less an allrounder than O'Brien, O'Mahoney or Moriarty.

Heaslip was probably one of the biggest disappointments of the 6N. Totally seemed to lose his way.

 
Re: Lions announcement
arniepie (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 09:56
Firstly congratulations to Kyle and Joe on being selected both really deserve it, stander should be nowhere near the squad as he,s sailing under a flag of convenience, once again the lions and England squads have been turned into the Saracens show, launchbury and Johnny gray must be severely hacked off , as to the England tour squad why is an 18 year old who has only played one game for Saracens in the squad? Gatland and Eddie Jones are letting Steve borthwick run the show as Lancaster did with Andy Farrell, very disappointed with Eddie jones, thought he was his own man but obviously been turned into a Saracens puppet

 
Re: Lions announcement
Quinoids (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 10:01
Arnie - baffling

 
Re: Lions announcement
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 10:09
Moriarty got gubbed in NZ in the summer in the way that Robshaw never would be. Missing 8 tackles in a single match is unforgivable. At the same time Robshaw was winning goal-line turnovers, a MOTM award, carrying hard, and being Mr Right Place Right Time like always.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Lions announcement
Cookie (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 10:19
Quote:
arniepie
Firstly congratulations to Kyle and Joe on being selected both really deserve it, stander should be nowhere near the squad as he,s sailing under a flag of convenience, once again the lions and England squads have been turned into the Saracens show, launchbury and Johnny gray must be severely hacked off , as to the England tour squad why is an 18 year old who has only played one game for Saracens in the squad? Gatland and Eddie Jones are letting Steve borthwick run the show as Lancaster did with Andy Farrell, very disappointed with Eddie jones, thought he was his own man but obviously been turned into a Saracens puppet

Who's the 18 year old Saracen? Last I heard, Itoje had BIL the Lion as he was the youngest tourist.

And can't see how Launchbury and Gray (locks) would be upset about Stander being selected (flanker).

And what's this got to do with EJ?

 
Re: Lions announcement
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 10:28
Arnie, how is it the saracens show? What Saracens player who was selected did not deserve to go? Was it any of the Vunipola's or Farrell or Itoje, or to me the best lock in the NH and certainly best set piece lock in Kruis or Jamie George who to me is the best hooker

Please don't let your anger and obvious angst towards sarries cloud your judgement and stop you from making any sense

Also how does Stander's inclusion stop Launchbury from being selected? They don't even play the same position

Also Borthwick is with the lions, how is he running the England show, i'm sure he has plenty to worry about with the lions at the moment

As for the 18 year old, he was not the only young player selected, there is a player there who is the same age and does not even play in the premiership or the young scrum half over the wasps scrum halves but you conveniently ignored that just to make your point.

Isiekwe like Eddie Jones said and many at sarries have said is going to be the next Itoje and is nearly as good if not as good as maro was at that age.

He clearly wants to introduce younger players who have massive potential and i'm glad he went with him over slater or attwood who are all good players but average international players

 
Re: Lions announcement
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 10:39
Quote:
arniepie
Firstly congratulations to Kyle and Joe on being selected both really deserve it, stander should be nowhere near the squad as he,s sailing under a flag of convenience, once again the lions and England squads have been turned into the Saracens show, launchbury and Johnny gray must be severely hacked off , as to the England tour squad why is an 18 year old who has only played one game for Saracens in the squad? Gatland and Eddie Jones are letting Steve borthwick run the show as Lancaster did with Andy Farrell, very disappointed with Eddie jones, thought he was his own man but obviously been turned into a Saracens puppet


Also I like Kyle Sinckler and think he should be on the bench for the test matches but if we are going to go down the route of deserving, he is even less deserving than any of the sarries boys who won the premiership last year, a grand slam last year, a series win in Australia and the champions cup. Sinckler was not involved in any of that last year and only got into the England team in the autumn and plays for a team that's not even close to winning any titles and yet he deserves to be there and the sarries boys don't, that makes sense

 
Re: Lions announcement
arniepie (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 11:44
Firstly I stated the difference between England and the lions but being linked together by the influence of borthwick, stander pitches up in Ireland drinks 3 pints of guiness and suddenly becomes cj o stander, you might as well call the team the rest of the world as they do in cricket, what does this say to up and coming players? Your chances of playing for England will increase a hundred fold if you play for Saracens?

 
Re: Lions announcement
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 11:45
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Arnie, how is it the saracens show? What Saracens player who was selected did not deserve to go? Was it any of the Vunipola's or Farrell or Itoje, or to me the best lock in the NH and certainly best set piece lock in Kruis or Jamie George who to me is the best hooker

Indeed. You can argue that Hartley should be there instead of George, and that Kruis hasn't yet proved he can hit the heights of his form again, but there are far more contentious selection decisions. There can't be that many serious rugby fans in the world who wouldn't have picked the other 4 Saracens players in their lions squad.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 12:19
Quote:
arniepie
Firstly I stated the difference between England and the lions but being linked together by the influence of borthwick, stander pitches up in Ireland drinks 3 pints of guiness and suddenly becomes cj o stander, you might as well call the team the rest of the world as they do in cricket, what does this say to up and coming players? Your chances of playing for England will increase a hundred fold if you play for Saracens?


Well it has not increased the chances of Jackson Wray or Alex Goode as they are not playing for England, it has not helped Jamie George get into the team when for 2 years, he has played better than Hartley, it has not helped Brad Baritt get into the team or Chris Ashton so i still don't get your point.
The Sarries players playing for England, they all deserve to play for England as they are the best in their positions and sarries have the best team in Europe.
I do not like the rules as they are in terms of 3 years and you get to play for another country but, the rules are the rules and Stander to me is a really top player so i can't see any reason why he should not get picked seeing as he is eligible.

If you had Stander at Quins, you will be much higher up the table than you are, he is as good a ball carrier as there is in rugby

 
Re: Lions announcement
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 13:21
Arnie-not-negger - did a lad with a faux Irish accent wearing a Sarries nick your sweets?

 
Re: Lions announcement
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 13:25
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Quote:
arniepie
Firstly congratulations to Kyle and Joe on being selected both really deserve it, stander should be nowhere near the squad as he,s sailing under a flag of convenience, once again the lions and England squads have been turned into the Saracens show, launchbury and Johnny gray must be severely hacked off , as to the England tour squad why is an 18 year old who has only played one game for Saracens in the squad? Gatland and Eddie Jones are letting Steve borthwick run the show as Lancaster did with Andy Farrell, very disappointed with Eddie jones, thought he was his own man but obviously been turned into a Saracens puppet


Also I like Kyle Sinckler and think he should be on the bench for the test matches but if we are going to go down the route of deserving, he is even less deserving than any of the sarries boys who won the premiership last year, a grand slam last year, a series win in Australia and the champions cup. Sinckler was not involved in any of that last year and only got into the England team in the autumn and plays for a team that's not even close to winning any titles and yet he deserves to be there and the sarries boys don't, that makes sense

What on earth does the team a player plays for have to do with whether he's good enough to play for the lions?

 
Re: Lions announcement
Quinoids (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 13:26
Also Arnie - lets not to be too hasty to criticise other nations about selecting nationalised players....Te'o....Solomana......not to mention many in our history.

CJ O'Stander (i did like the pun) has been selected based on current rules for Ireland, and deemed good enough to be a lion.....rightly or wrongly...

 
Re: Lions announcement
Cookie (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 13:28
Do I really need to point out that CJ Stander plays for Munster........??!!

 
Re: Lions announcement
blucherquin (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 13:31
Quote:
arniepie
Firstly congratulations to Kyle and Joe on being selected both really deserve it, stander should be nowhere near the squad as he,s sailing under a flag of convenience, once again the lions and England squads have been turned into the Saracens show, launchbury and Johnny gray must be severely hacked off , as to the England tour squad why is an 18 year old who has only played one game for Saracens in the squad? Gatland and Eddie Jones are letting Steve borthwick run the show as Lancaster did with Andy Farrell, very disappointed with Eddie jones, thought he was his own man but obviously been turned into a Saracens puppet

Bizarre. Totally bizarre.

Eddie Jones is a Saracens puppet. So he's taking 3 Sarries to Argentina, but 4 Quins, 4 Chiefs and 5 Saints. He's very good at hiding his Sarries influence.

 
Re: Lions announcement
Dave L (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 13:52
Quote:
Quinoids
Also Arnie - lets not to be too hasty to criticise other nations about selecting nationalised players....Te'o....Solomana......not to mention many in our history.
CJ O'Stander (i did like the pun) has been selected based on current rules for Ireland, and deemed good enough to be a lion.....rightly or wrongly...

Ben Teo's mum is English therefore is eligible on that basis. Solomona I'll give you.

 
Re: Lions announcement
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 15:06
Quote:
blucherquin
Quote:
arniepie
Firstly congratulations to Kyle and Joe on being selected both really deserve it, stander should be nowhere near the squad as he,s sailing under a flag of convenience, once again the lions and England squads have been turned into the Saracens show, launchbury and Johnny gray must be severely hacked off , as to the England tour squad why is an 18 year old who has only played one game for Saracens in the squad? Gatland and Eddie Jones are letting Steve borthwick run the show as Lancaster did with Andy Farrell, very disappointed with Eddie jones, thought he was his own man but obviously been turned into a Saracens puppet

Bizarre. Totally bizarre.

Eddie Jones is a Saracens puppet. So he's taking 3 Sarries to Argentina, but 4 Quins, 4 Chiefs and 5 Saints. He's very good at hiding his Sarries influence.

5 Quins smiling smiley

 
Re: Lions announcement
blucherquin (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 15:09
Hartley, Kiwi
Hughes, Figi
Vunipolas, Kiwi, Aussie
Te'o, Kiwi
Clifford, Aussie
Harrison, Kiwi
Yarde, St Lucia

We're hardly ones to talk....

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