rugbyunion
Latest News:

Quinssa WebsiteQuins News from News NowQuins Official Site


Goto Page: Previous12
Current Page: 2 of 2
 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
03 May, 2017 19:42
Quote:
poorfour
Quote:
Cookie
Everything that's been quoted was said to me by David Ellis a couple of months ago. The injury stats, contracts, our style having been worked out etc, so none of this is news for me.
And, yes, I'm coming from an angle whereby I need to be convinced his promotion was the right decision and so far I'm not.

You see, I don't think you are. I think you are coming from an angle where you are already convinced that he's not the right man for the job and there doesn't seem to be anything that will change your mind.

If I follow the logic of your high street retailer experience to its conclusion, you actually think he should have resigned as Head Coach before the DOR post became vacant because he couldn't implement the things he's doing now.

I think Cookie has shown much more ability to rethink his position than JK's attack dogs on here.

All seems to be rosy after the Wasps result, but I'm still seeing people say the Exeter try when we were so all at sea in defence that the ball bounced in oceans of space was just down to a lucky bounce. You don't see many tries like that - not because the ball usually bounces differently, but because outside under 7s the ball is never allowed to bounce in that much space.

In the first half on Friday we were guilty of trying to score from every phase, something we do all to often - meaning we missed out on at least two tries. We kicked aimlessly and didn't chase on numerous occasions. This just shouldn't be happening, you don't see the top teams doing that, and it's not difficult to fix.

You can talk about changed systems all you like, but for a side to be doing that a year into the coaching setup is unforgivable. To say that we were unlucky to receive the thumping we did at the hands of Exeter just looks like naivety to me.

The reports from last night sound promising, and I'd be delighted to be proved wrong next season, but to me the team still look like a bunch of talented individuals who can click at times but are just as likely to fall apart and look very silly. The players still look poorly coached to me.

We've also heard a lot of wise words from JK, who is clearly a student of the game, but I don't see this move to bring in his own squad and clear out the deadwood either. I wait with bated breath to see the new signings, but I really think that Mapletoft especially has taken us as far as he's going to.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Dave L (IP Logged)
03 May, 2017 20:35
I like what I hear from JK overall but next season needs to be an improvement on this one just ending. I completely get his inferences about the squad and how it isn't how he'd like it. The issue of the lack of cover in international periods is something that it almost appeared that COS didn't want to acknowledge. Lobbing a number of kids in against old premiership pros probably didn't do them any favours. I'm thinking the likes of Matthews here. It also seems like hands have been tied by certain contract situations. I'd like to think this will work itself out over the next season or two. I feel there may have been a few sentimental contract offers over the years.

I also have sympathy with the view that performances like Wasps make some of the rubbish even more irritating. The basics have at times been indefensible. Attacking 5m line outs ruined by so many overthrows or my favourite "crossing", plus some truly pants handling and kicking from hand. I believe Catrakilis is a good exponent of the latter discipline so improvement there I hope. I'm not sure on the other coaches. Never warmed to Mapletoft but maybe that's just me. It's the basics that concern me - who is responsible for that?

On field leadership and confidence is also something that has seemed lacking at times when a critical mass of the internationals and Horwill aren't there. Make Horwill captain, Brown and Dave Ward Vice Captains and go from there. Stop feeling like we need to be the court entertainers and that we're actually a serious rugby club with serious players and a strong, consistent support.

I'd like JK to succeed and there have been elements I've seen that make me think that things can improve next year. But improve they must.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
03 May, 2017 21:00
The levels of 2011.12 availability won't happen again unless we get another golden generation on the verge of, but not being selected by England. The current set of signings may be available throughout but don't look of that caliber.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
blucherquin (IP Logged)
03 May, 2017 21:02
My phone stuffed this up but I was meant to be quoting Rodney.

[/quote]I think Cookie has shown much more ability to rethink his position than JK's attack dogs on here.[/quote]

Yeah...or Cookie was part of a briefly interesting thread where people were actually exchanging nuanced and thoughtful views on the club.

I can see why that's annoying - come on Rodney...seriously.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2017 21:04 by blucherquin.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
poorfour (IP Logged)
03 May, 2017 21:36
Perhaps I am too tolerant and too willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. But there has been a "JK must go" faction on this board for as long as I can remember, including the 2011-12 season and it's reached ridiculous proportions this year, to the point where even good performances are cited as evidence against him.

I don't think that's fair, and I don't think that we as fans have enough information to pass summary judgement based on limited information in the way some posters do.

I don't think anyone is pretending that the start of the season wasn't very ropey, or that the Exeter game was lost through luck rather than individual errors. But there has been a marked improvement in performance over the last couple of months. Even if it has been undermined by lapses in concentration, we played better against Exeter and Wasps than we have in recent years, and we were more competitive against Sarries than we have been outside of games (like the home game) when we just tried to close them down.

There are still some things to be sorted out, and too many individual errors but those are things that I would expect to reduce as the team have more time and practice.

It doesn't matter anyway, does it? Like him or not, JK isn't going anywhere, so we have another season on which to base our judgement.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Bellyfull (IP Logged)
04 May, 2017 12:37
JK can talk the talk and it seems a lot of you suckers are taken in by it all. But its the results and performances that matter not how well he can put himself across to a captive audience whom the majority are transfixed by his words and the fact that he is probably a very decent man.

Results are poor/average at best and a lot of the performances have been awful both in victory and defeat, we haven't moved forward and if we don't next year it will be blamed on a transition year (New number 10). Then with the players that are likely to leave next year then another Transition year !!!. Its time that we get rid of Kingston he is a talker not a doer just look at his record

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
04 May, 2017 13:33
I assume you made your position perfectly clear to the man himself at this event Bellyfull?

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
godzilla73 (IP Logged)
04 May, 2017 15:48
I think it might be quite informative for people engaged in the JK in/JK out discussion to have a listen to this weeks Rugby Dungeon podcast. It's an in depth interview with Ben Darwin, the former Aussie prop who now runs a very successful performance analysis company called Gainline. I'd encourage people to listen for themselves, but essentially he suggests that achieving "results" and "performance" are not always about the things that fans think they are. An interesting listen....

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
johnlid (IP Logged)
04 May, 2017 18:31
Quote:
godzilla73
I think it might be quite informative for people engaged in the JK in/JK out discussion to have a listen to this weeks Rugby Dungeon podcast. It's an in depth interview with Ben Darwin, the former Aussie prop who now runs a very successful performance analysis company called Gainline. I'd encourage people to listen for themselves, but essentially he suggests that achieving "results" and "performance" are not always about the things that fans think they are. An interesting listen....

Very interesting but does it say why we haven't finished in the top four? Is that "results" or "performance"?

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Bellyfull (IP Logged)
04 May, 2017 18:46
I don't want to listen to what he says. I want to see quin's improve. And they aren't under his coaching team it's time he walked

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
04 May, 2017 18:51
Quote:
johnlid
Very interesting but does it say why we haven't finished in the top four? Is that "results" or "performance"?

Neither - JK got hold of COS by the scruff of the neck and told him he was not fit to direct the coaching of the team and he should listen to him - it's why COS left for Italy - decoying rookeries told me! (Sm105)

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
04 May, 2017 20:02
Do I detect a new identity on this thread? cool smiley

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
04 May, 2017 20:09
It's not me!

Either way, even if JK does have a good plan is he able to deliver it?

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
04 May, 2017 22:09
Quote:
The150
It's not me!
Either way, even if JK does have a good plan is he able to deliver it?

He clearly has a plan. If he (and the players) manage to deliver, will you still call for him to go?

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
04 May, 2017 22:12
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
The150
It's not me!
Either way, even if JK does have a good plan is he able to deliver it?

He clearly has a plan. If he (and the players) manage to deliver, will you still call for him to go?
It depends on the timescale.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
blucherquin (IP Logged)
05 May, 2017 07:03
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
The150
It's not me!
Either way, even if JK does have a good plan is he able to deliver it?

He clearly has a plan. If he (and the players) manage to deliver, will you still call for him to go?
It depends on the timescale.

Yes, exactly. And I think it's fair that we make that judgement in January.

I don't need us to be winning every game, but I think by another half a season I would expect to see a team showing that they have a new way of playing and putting togehther a run of decent performances.

We looked clueless and gutless this year until recently, if there are hints of that still next year...then it's time to wonder if he's the man to help us to the next level.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Cookie (IP Logged)
05 May, 2017 07:52
Quote:
blucherquin
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
The150
It's not me!
Either way, even if JK does have a good plan is he able to deliver it?

He clearly has a plan. If he (and the players) manage to deliver, will you still call for him to go?
It depends on the timescale.

Yes, exactly. And I think it's fair that we make that judgement in January.

I don't need us to be winning every game, but I think by another half a season I would expect to see a team showing that they have a new way of playing and putting togehther a run of decent performances.

We looked clueless and gutless this year until recently, if there are hints of that still next year...then it's time to wonder if he's the man to help us to the next level.

On the basis that it's clear nothing's changing, I would agree with this summary. With a couple more signings, we should be challenging for a top 4 spot and there will be absolutely no excuses.

But I fear the JK/MT supporters will want the whole season to see improvement as most seem to suggest a mid-season change is not a good thing. This is not intended to be antagonistic, by the way, but I do worry what happens if we get off to another slow start next season.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
05 May, 2017 08:27
Quote:
Cookie
But I fear the JK/MT supporters will want the whole season to see improvement as most seem to suggest a mid-season change is not a good thing. This is not intended to be antagonistic, by the way, but I do worry what happens if we get off to another slow start next season.

I agree - his improvements will need an early and sustained showing.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
SiBolton (IP Logged)
05 May, 2017 09:42
I'll be happy if we get into Champions cup, and can build on performances
yep this season hasn't delivered what the vast majority wanted,if we don't put in a good performance on Saturday that will really show that we aren't improving and the message isn't getting across

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
05 May, 2017 11:11
MT... Mark Tatlemoft?

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
05 May, 2017 11:28
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Quote:
Cookie
But I fear the JK/MT supporters will want the whole season to see improvement as most seem to suggest a mid-season change is not a good thing. This is not intended to be antagonistic, by the way, but I do worry what happens if we get off to another slow start next season.

I agree - his improvements will need an early and sustained showing.

I'd say the whole season. COS always said that nothing is won mid-season. We could do what Leicester have done a few times in recent years and start off slowly, only to surge late in the season. The team needs to be judged across a whole season, not in segments.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
05 May, 2017 11:34
Wasps made a habit of it back when they were one of the best sides in Europe



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Cookie (IP Logged)
05 May, 2017 11:54
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Quote:
Cookie
But I fear the JK/MT supporters will want the whole season to see improvement as most seem to suggest a mid-season change is not a good thing. This is not intended to be antagonistic, by the way, but I do worry what happens if we get off to another slow start next season.

I agree - his improvements will need an early and sustained showing.

I'd say the whole season. COS always said that nothing is won mid-season. We could do what Leicester have done a few times in recent years and start off slowly, only to surge late in the season. The team needs to be judged across a whole season, not in segments.

It's admirable that you would be happy to wait until mid-season to see an upturn in our fortunes, but by then there would be absolutely no logic to think that would be the case.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
05 May, 2017 11:58
If we get off to a slow start, we'd presumably find it hard to find a replacement anyway.

With the 6Ns when it is it would also be a terrible time for a new person to come in as some key players won't be at the club (although we may not lose as many players next season).

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
05 May, 2017 12:30
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Quote:
Cookie
But I fear the JK/MT supporters will want the whole season to see improvement as most seem to suggest a mid-season change is not a good thing. This is not intended to be antagonistic, by the way, but I do worry what happens if we get off to another slow start next season.

I agree - his improvements will need an early and sustained showing.

I'd say the whole season. COS always said that nothing is won mid-season. We could do what Leicester have done a few times in recent years and start off slowly, only to surge late in the season. The team needs to be judged across a whole season, not in segments.

It's admirable that you would be happy to wait until mid-season to see an upturn in our fortunes, but by then there would be absolutely no logic to think that would be the case.

I disagree. The season involves 22 games and with each game the opponents could be hitting form or suffering a dip; they could be at full strength or hit by injury/callups. The same goes for us. To judge our season after half the games would be foolhardy as the second half of any season can be very different to the first. In our title-winning season I believe we were unbeaten for 10 games - that didn't replicate through the second half of the season.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
blucherquin (IP Logged)
06 May, 2017 06:39
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Quote:
Cookie
But I fear the JK/MT supporters will want the whole season to see improvement as most seem to suggest a mid-season change is not a good thing. This is not intended to be antagonistic, by the way, but I do worry what happens if we get off to another slow start next season.

I agree - his improvements will need an early and sustained showing.

I'd say the whole season. COS always said that nothing is won mid-season. We could do what Leicester have done a few times in recent years and start off slowly, only to surge late in the season. The team needs to be judged across a whole season, not in segments.

It's admirable that you would be happy to wait until mid-season to see an upturn in our fortunes, but by then there would be absolutely no logic to think that would be the case.

I disagree. The season involves 22 games and with each game the opponents could be hitting form or suffering a dip; they could be at full strength or hit by injury/callups. The same goes for us. To judge our season after half the games would be foolhardy as the second half of any season can be very different to the first. In our title-winning season I believe we were unbeaten for 10 games - that didn't replicate through the second half of the season.

My original post raising half a season wasn't about kicking him out or deciding to keep him forever, it was about when it's reasonable to judge if there are signs of all these changes coming together.

As I said..but will repeat because no one ever reads anything...I don't need us to have won every game by then..but as a JK agnostic I'd except to see delveopemts and have a team to believe in, which was totally lacking for the first 2/3 of this year.

I'd be happy for us to be a good side who lost to the other top sides in tight games - it would be better than the amateur rubbish and capitulation we saw at times this year.

 
Re: Q&A with JK on May 2nd
Quaking Quin (IP Logged)
06 May, 2017 11:48
I'd be happy for us to be a good side who lost to the other top sides in tight games - it would be better than the amateur rubbish and capitulation we saw at times this year.[/quote]


Exactly BQuin.

JK spoke well on Tuesday evening but admitted that it has taken all season for the players to adapt to the style of play the coaches were drilling into them. Seems amazing that it took until the Exeter and Wasps matches to achieve this aim (games 30 and 31 out of the 32 game season).

Short of a major disaster JK is clearly in the post for another two seasons.

He stated that his objective was winning the AP - as was every other DOR competing in the Premiership. While he would not be drawn on specific targets it must mean regular top 4 finishes from now on. He must be judged on this basis.

Roll on next season. I would like to see greater intensity from the players throughout games and greater consistency of performance between games.

The newly learned style of play is attractive and exciting to watch but seems a comparatively simple wide running game. Let's hope the other teams don't work this out from the outset. In which case, the players are back to spending all next season learning a Plan B.

Goto Page: Previous12
Current Page: 2 of 2

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?