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End of season olive branch
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
06 May, 2017 19:22
It has been a frustrating season that in the end finished on a relative high and qualification for the top tier of European rugby, so well done to the team and JK.

Exasperation has carried over on to the board at times and, holding up my hand, I have been a part of that, so Id just like to say that I have not intended to be personal in some of my criticism but I understand that it may have been taken that way, for which I apologise. It is hard to keep a lid on it sometimes and our own frustrations get the better of us.

Hopefully, next season will show more improvement from the side and club generally. Heres to a more fruitful season 2017/8, such that we can all get behind the team together and enjoy watching and supporting Quins.

(Sm128)

 
Re: End of season olive branch
T-Bone (IP Logged)
06 May, 2017 19:57
Like the sentiment. Well said.

Time to cheer on our tourists

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Mayor West (IP Logged)
06 May, 2017 21:02
Cheers Bolly and look foreword to more of your posts. I think that because a written word has no tone to it that people can take a comment the wrong way and over react but I could be wrong in some cases. We can look forward to commenting on the Lions and the Argentina tour.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Stooperman (IP Logged)
06 May, 2017 22:05
Well said B-Q and I add my own mea culpa.

See you all next year for a season of uninterrupted triumph and levity (Sm128)

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
07 May, 2017 07:08
Well said Sir. Have a great summer everyone and back on it in September.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
07 May, 2017 08:25
Opinions haven't changed but totally agree with the tone of this thread! Let's forget about all the top table stuff for the next month and look forward to Sept!!

 
Re: End of season olive branch
SiBolton (IP Logged)
07 May, 2017 10:13
As said yesterday in Northampton, difference of opinion should be just that
alreay looking forward to next season, and no matter what always have a good day out home or away, OK some time the 80 minutes of rugby can put a dampener on the day but as a whole the vast majority of Quins supporters I've met are a decent bunch

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
07 May, 2017 19:32
Quote:
SiBolton
As said yesterday in Northampton, difference of opinion should be just that
alreay looking forward to next season, and no matter what always have a good day out home or away, OK some time the 80 minutes of rugby can put a dampener on the day but as a whole the vast majority of Quins supporters I've met are a decent bunch

We haven't met, have we Si/ grinning smiley

Echo what Bolly says. Tempers get frayed, frustrations biol over. Apologies if anyone gets offended by my comments, no offence intended.

For the first time in a few seasons, I can see that we at least have a plan that seems to be taking shape, rather than trusting in a style evolving. Next season looks bright, especially with a few new arrivals and a full pre-season with the coaching squad in place.

Let's just be thankful of no surveys against JK for a few months!

 
Re: End of season olive branch
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
07 May, 2017 22:57
Agree with the sentiment. We all want Quins to succeed and I for one enjoy the cut and thrust! Here's to top 4 next season (Sm128)

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Cookie (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 07:09
Same goes for me. I know I've rubbed some people up the wrong way and some of my views directly conflict with others, but we all do it out of our love for the club.

As Si and I were discussing on Saturday, I went on to the Glos forum when we were travelling down there to see where we should go pre-game and there was nothing there. Seemingly their threads got out of hand and they essentially disbanded the forum. Wouldn't want that to happen here.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Closer & Closer (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 07:38
Problem is this seasons squad will never play together again and next season will be another one of transition as it always is.

New player means new combinations new styles etc.

Lets hope the coaches in their 2nd year together can get us off to a good start to 17/18 season.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 07:49
Cookie - for Gloucester stuff you need to go to Shedweb - they don't use the rugbynetwork much, if at all.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Bellyfull (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 08:10
Certainly no Olive branch from me, to see a team celebrating after losing a game and finishing a very average 6th doesn't sit well with me. Now if that's going to be our goals in future then how can JK's position be justified. We want and ought to be challenging at the top with our playing staff, not fighting for 6th. On top of that great we have qualified for Champions Cup but for starters we will be in the same group as one of the premiership finalists.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 08:27
Quote:
Now if that's going to be our goals in future then how can JK's position be justified

You're just making stuff up in your head. There's zero need to transfer it to the forum.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Cookie (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 08:44
And this thread was going so well.........

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 10:28
Quote:
Bellyfull
Certainly no Olive branch from me, to see a team celebrating after losing a game and finishing a very average 6th doesn't sit well with me. Now if that's going to be our goals in future then how can JK's position be justified. We want and ought to be challenging at the top with our playing staff, not fighting for 6th. On top of that great we have qualified for Champions Cup but for starters we will be in the same group as one of the premiership finalists.

Well, we murdered Wasps and beat Saracens in this terrible season so playing another Premiership club shouldn't be the end of the world.

I'm struggling to understand why anyone would begrudge the team celebrating getting the final Champions Cup qualifying spot.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: End of season olive branch
DOK (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 11:05
It's appeals to my sense of irony, for sure. Someone complaining about a result (we lost) but unable to celebrate a result (we're in Europe).

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Dave L (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 11:17
It did feel odd celebrating a defeat but at the end of the match, we got what we needed and Saints didn't so I'm certainly not going to begrudge the players a few celebrations! Onward and upward next year. The latter half of the season has seen more good than bad IMO so I'm cautiously optimistic going forward.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Cookie (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 11:40
I actually forgot we lost. Saturday was only about finishing 6th, which we did.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
ArchQuin (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 11:59
If you looked at both sets of players at the end of the match, only one team won (despite the score) !

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 12:05
I think it was more weird that Saints won and didn't celebrate, it sounded very eerie at the end of the game.

Don't vent on Bellyfull the troll, let's save our spleen venting for #nepotistgatland on the Lions tour, it'll be more rewarding.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 12:52
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Bellyfull
Certainly no Olive branch from me, to see a team celebrating after losing a game and finishing a very average 6th doesn't sit well with me. Now if that's going to be our goals in future then how can JK's position be justified. We want and ought to be challenging at the top with our playing staff, not fighting for 6th. On top of that great we have qualified for Champions Cup but for starters we will be in the same group as one of the premiership finalists.

Well, we murdered Wasps and beat Saracens in this terrible season so playing another Premiership club shouldn't be the end of the world.

I'm struggling to understand why anyone would begrudge the team celebrating getting the final Champions Cup qualifying spot.

The weird thing for me is that potentially we've beaten both Premiership finalists this season.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Cookie (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 13:41
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Bellyfull
Certainly no Olive branch from me, to see a team celebrating after losing a game and finishing a very average 6th doesn't sit well with me. Now if that's going to be our goals in future then how can JK's position be justified. We want and ought to be challenging at the top with our playing staff, not fighting for 6th. On top of that great we have qualified for Champions Cup but for starters we will be in the same group as one of the premiership finalists.

Well, we murdered Wasps and beat Saracens in this terrible season so playing another Premiership club shouldn't be the end of the world.

I'm struggling to understand why anyone would begrudge the team celebrating getting the final Champions Cup qualifying spot.

The weird thing for me is that potentially we've beaten both Premiership finalists this season.

Which says to me that there is nothing majorly wrong with the squad.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 15:01
One-offs don't really say much about squad depth.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Closer & Closer (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 15:13
Totally agree Jammy....the NEV effect of his last game, Karl's last game, one last effort from the 16/17 squad, Dr Roberts in the shop window (a know a bit cheeky), Mike Brown showing Gatland he's wrong..... all these contributed to a last hurrah and was enough to get to 6th.

Not a STH next season so only coming to a very few games possibly. Unlikely to post any more bye

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Cookie (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 15:35
Quote:
Jammy Git
One-offs don't really say much about squad depth.

We played plenty well enough in plenty of games. Consistency was our main issue.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 19:20
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Jammy Git
One-offs don't really say much about squad depth.

We played plenty well enough in plenty of games. Consistency was our main issue.

Did we? That's news to me!

We won our fair share of matches but there were not that many convincing performances, and some truly dreadful ones in there too. We had a handful of good wins.

I'm struggling to remember matches where players outside of the full strength XV stood up to be counted, James Chisholm and Adam Jones aside. I can remember a couple of cameos from Alofa and Morris but nothing awe-inspiring and just as many poor performances.

We've basically carried this lot through the season, through either lack of performance, serious inconsistency, or simple unavailability through injury:
L
Walker, Ward, Twomey, Talei, Sloan, Stanley, Shields, Reddish, Naoupu, Roberts, Murphy, L Jones, Jackson, Hopper, Holenstein, Collier, Lowe, Hodson, Gray, Gendall, Owen Evans, Elia Elia, Clifford, Ross Chisholm.

And it's not like Buchanan had an amazing season, or Care, or Luamanu, or Merrick, or Swiel, or Wallace.

Clearly some of those names are worth keeping, but between injury, callups, or just total lack of impact a huge part of our squad basically ended up being a net negative this season.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 08:54
I think Buchanan's had a very good season... apart from dropping the ball in a maul 3 times on the trot, and missing a ton of attacking lineouts when we were in excellent positions. The latter of those has been a real disappointment but I think his otherwise impressive work should be recognised.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 08:56
Can't agree. He was mostly appalling for half the season. It was baffling how he continued to get picked.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Cookie (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 09:09
Agree with QP. Obviously blips, but in the main was comfortably our best hooker. That said, I'm crying out for us to get in someone on the next level.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 10:32
Harsh on Ward as well. He's been a very consistent player for us.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 10:41
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Jammy Git
One-offs don't really say much about squad depth.

We played plenty well enough in plenty of games. Consistency was our main issue.

Did we? That's news to me!

We won our fair share of matches but there were not that many convincing performances, and some truly dreadful ones in there too. We had a handful of good wins.

I'm struggling to remember matches where players outside of the full strength XV stood up to be counted, James Chisholm and Adam Jones aside. I can remember a couple of cameos from Alofa and Morris but nothing awe-inspiring and just as many poor performances.

We've basically carried this lot through the season, through either lack of performance, serious inconsistency, or simple unavailability through injury:
L
Walker, Ward, Twomey, Talei, Sloan, Stanley, Shields, Reddish, Naoupu, Roberts, Murphy, L Jones, Jackson, Hopper, Holenstein, Collier, Lowe, Hodson, Gray, Gendall, Owen Evans, Elia Elia, Clifford, Ross Chisholm.

And it's not like Buchanan had an amazing season, or Care, or Luamanu, or Merrick, or Swiel, or Wallace.

Clearly some of those names are worth keeping, but between injury, callups, or just total lack of impact a huge part of our squad basically ended up being a net negative this season.

Sobering reading.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
T-Bone (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 10:43
Harsh on Collier too I reckon, unless you're referring to his injury rather than form / ability. think it's harsh on walker too.

Buchanan has done well in the loose, but he has stuffed up too many key attacking lineouts and mauls. Ward doesn't get picked as starting hooker because his throwing isn't food enough. Buchanan probably has a better percentage but seems to miss the key ones. Maybe the caller is to blame but it has been a big frustration.

A lot of those player JG mentions are going, and hopefully the long term injuries will be back.

I agree though that there haven't been too many great performances. Off the top of my head, Newcastle, Stade, Sarries and Wasps at home, Bristol away and that's it?

Good come back against Gloucester away, but can't call it a great performance given that we got ourselves in a mess in the first place.

Some fans thought our performances against Timisoara were great, which I find bizarre.

Anyway, been a very up and don season but I suppose in the end it'll mainly be remembered for getting us back into Europe, Nev retiring, two Lions and 150 years and soon enough the actual performances and results will have been forgotten, until RleQuin brings out his next book!

 
Re: End of season olive branch
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 10:43
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
I think Buchanan's had a very good season... apart from dropping the ball in a maul 3 times on the trot, and missing a ton of attacking lineouts when we were in excellent positions. The latter of those has been a real disappointment but I think his otherwise impressive work should be recognised.

So really good apart from the games in which he repeatedly soiled himself? Appears to have taken up residence on the opposite wing from Wallace as well, although luke did actually receive the ball on the wing and make ground on one occasion on Saturday, so there's that.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 11:09
I did make the point that some of these were just injury, hence Collier, Lowe, Sloan. I'm a huge fan of Collier smiling smiley



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Quinning (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 11:16
Part of the problem with the lineput is it's so predictable - Horwill is being relied upon to take too much - struck me at times that they trust him to bail out their poor throwing and whilst that works to an extent, when he's missing the lineout definetly seems to faulter!

And the hooker on the wing - what is that about?! One of those tactics that's so good no one else seems to try it!

 
Re: End of season olive branch
T-Bone (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 11:22
Wallace and Buchanan are always on the wing. Wallace has scored maybe one try for us over about 3 seasons of doing it. Caught a cross kick against Saints but then couldn't score.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Dave L (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 11:36
The lineout has improved since the internationals have returned. It was at its worst when Horwill was out. Then improved when he came back (basically all to him) and then a bit more when we had the likes of Robshaw back as an alternative. I've noticed Matthews has been slowly getting better at the lineout as well in the last couple of months too.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Cookie (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 11:45
Having forwards out wide is widely coached. At my old club, I'd lift at one in the line and then basically wait for 3 or 4 phases for the ball to come back. The backs run a couple of phases with non-ball carriers clearing out. Then two other pods from the forwards get around the park doing the grunt (probably in midfield as the ball works its way back). Eventually the ball would come back to my pod and effectively I'd be a prop standing on the wing.

It's not uncommon tactics.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 12:04
Matthews has always been consistent or better at the lineout - its his greatest strength - he pinched one immediately on return from the sin bin against Saints.

I have a feeling - no stats - that Horwill, Matthews and Robshaw take the most ball pretty evenly spread, but Wallace was used to good effect on Saturday too.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Cookie (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 12:14
Carries v Saints:

Marler - 6 (5)
Buchanan - 3 (7)
Sinclker - 9 (17)
Matthews - 8 (4)
Horwill - 9 (25)
Robshaw - 10 (18)
Wallace - 5 (19)
Luamanu - 11 (11)

Charlie's problem is the yards he makes (shown in brackets). Runs too upright and rarely makes good yards, especially when compared with the rest of Saturday's back 5.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 13:02
Quote:
Cookie
Carries v Saints:
Marler - 6 (5)
Buchanan - 3 (7)
Sinclker - 9 (17)
Matthews - 8 (4)
Horwill - 9 (25)
Robshaw - 10 (18)
Wallace - 5 (19)
Luamanu - 11 (11)

Charlie's problem is the yards he makes (shown in brackets). Runs too upright and rarely makes good yards, especially when compared with the rest of Saturday's back 5.

I get the impression that his ball carrying isn't so much used to break the gainline but to set up the next play when a bigger carrier is brought into play. He doesn't seem to get turned over too often so typically when, say Luamanu takes the ball up and makes yards, from the breakdown Matthews takes the ball on to set up the next phase whilst Luamanu et al get back into position for the next phase. His line out work is also very good - the one handed take a few weeks back was a joy to watch.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Cookie (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 13:13
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Cookie
Carries v Saints:
Marler - 6 (5)
Buchanan - 3 (7)
Sinclker - 9 (17)
Matthews - 8 (4)
Horwill - 9 (25)
Robshaw - 10 (18)
Wallace - 5 (19)
Luamanu - 11 (11)

Charlie's problem is the yards he makes (shown in brackets). Runs too upright and rarely makes good yards, especially when compared with the rest of Saturday's back 5.

I get the impression that his ball carrying isn't so much used to break the gainline but to set up the next play when a bigger carrier is brought into play. He doesn't seem to get turned over too often so typically when, say Luamanu takes the ball up and makes yards, from the breakdown Matthews takes the ball on to set up the next phase whilst Luamanu et al get back into position for the next phase. His line out work is also very good - the one handed take a few weeks back was a joy to watch.

I think you're being awfully kind, QK. Not sure any team can afford the luxury of someone carrying the ball a yard while a bigger carrier gets up to be able to go again. Your locks should be strong ball carriers.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
poorfour (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 13:55
The same criticism is regularly levelled at Robshaw at international level - he doesn't make yards, therefore he isn't any good. It ignores the amount of work he does turning slow ball into quicker ball by laying it back cleanly.

Matthews isn't a big carrier, but he does the same thing for Quins, and is good in the lineout and scrum.

I think as fans we tend to place too much emphasis on big carriers, because they are visible, and not enough on the less obvious stuff. But coaches don't seem to think that way, and presumably they have some idea what they are on about.

If you look at the Lions selection, Kruis was selected over Launchbury because what he does in the scrum and lineout is more valuable to Gatland than what Launchbury does in the loose.

You ideally want a lock who can do it all, but absent that I think you need a balance of a physical carrier and a technician. Matthews is the latter. His carrying is also gradually improving - it will be worth seeing whether another pre-season with Wig will improve it further.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 13:56
Quote:
Cookie
Carries v Saints:
Marler - 6 (5)
Buchanan - 3 (7)
Sinclker - 9 (17)
Matthews - 8 (4)
Horwill - 9 (25)
Robshaw - 10 (18)
Wallace - 5 (19)
Luamanu - 11 (11)

Charlie's problem is the yards he makes (shown in brackets). Runs too upright and rarely makes good yards, especially when compared with the rest of Saturday's back 5.

Agree, Cookie - his running is not his strong point, although in open play it is better - sometimes those long arms are good at intercepting the ball - now he needs to work out when to and when not to intercept. His legs are so long that he'll struggle to get low enough to be a impact/collision runner - its too easy to get underneath his centre of gravity.

Are those stats from ESPN?

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 14:01
Not sure how much carrying/yardage King Kohn run up!

Its about balance though - in Horwill, Reddish (the 5 minutes he played!), Luamanu and/or Clifford/Chisholm the Bigger, there is plenty of carrying there, but form/injury restricted these earlier in the season.

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Cookie (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 14:35
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Quote:
Cookie
Carries v Saints:
Marler - 6 (5)
Buchanan - 3 (7)
Sinclker - 9 (17)
Matthews - 8 (4)
Horwill - 9 (25)
Robshaw - 10 (18)
Wallace - 5 (19)
Luamanu - 11 (11)

Charlie's problem is the yards he makes (shown in brackets). Runs too upright and rarely makes good yards, especially when compared with the rest of Saturday's back 5.

Agree, Cookie - his running is not his strong point, although in open play it is better - sometimes those long arms are good at intercepting the ball - now he needs to work out when to and when not to intercept. His legs are so long that he'll struggle to get low enough to be a impact/collision runner - its too easy to get underneath his centre of gravity.

Are those stats from ESPN?

From the Aviva Premiership site. Go to fixtures, pick a game and scroll down (be patient as it takes the pages time to load!) e.g. [www.premiershiprugby.com]

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 14:44
Thanks...

 
Re: End of season olive branch
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 15:20
Quote:
poorfour
The same criticism is regularly levelled at Robshaw at international level - he doesn't make yards, therefore he isn't any good. It ignores the amount of work he does turning slow ball into quicker ball by laying it back cleanly.

Since moving to 6 he's been England's second best carrier in terms of numbers - number of carries but also metres-per-carry - than anyone not named Billy Vunipola, which is remarkable.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: End of season olive branch
poorfour (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 17:51
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
poorfour
The same criticism is regularly levelled at Robshaw at international level - he doesn't make yards, therefore he isn't any good. It ignores the amount of work he does turning slow ball into quicker ball by laying it back cleanly.

Since moving to 6 he's been England's second best carrier in terms of numbers - number of carries but also metres-per-carry - than anyone not named Billy Vunipola, which is remarkable.

Wow. I hadn't noticed that. I had noticed that he was making more of those slightly surprised breaks, but it's impressive that he's improved to that degree.


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