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Brown Unhappy with Gatland
DOK (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 08:30

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 08:40
Slams??? I wish someone would slam these headline writers now and again, maybe with a breeze block to the face.

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 12:10
I'm pleased Brown's unhappy because I'm unhappy that he's not going as well and I think more needs to be said about some of these choices in the written and spoken press. I feel that #nepotistgatland is getting away with what he's done.

And I won't be happy when we lose the series 3-0 as it is the Lions and I want them to succeed as it's such a great tradition and something for players to aim for and Brown (and others) deserve to have had that experience.

It shouldn't be a coaches play thing

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Roaming Quin (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 12:15
He has every right to be upset. Halfpenny needs to be player of the series to make up for his inclusion.

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
08 May, 2017 15:00
Halfpenny should never have travelled. One of several frankly absurd picks.

Brown's form wasn't good enough despite that, and with Williams & Hogg they have two prime choices for 15 and they can have decent cover with Payne.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Yareet (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 07:23
Quote:
Jammy Git
Halfpenny should never have travelled. One of several frankly absurd picks

I think I understand Ha'penny just for his kicking. Assuming that Sexton and Farrell are pencilled in as 10 and 12, the midweek team will need a kicker and a backup.

I can see the sense of not having to risk either of the test players on the midweek bench.

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Cookie (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 08:50
Midweek team will have Laidlaw, Russell and possibly Daley.

Brown's form was far better than Halfpenny's. He's not necessarily been at his best this year, but ultimately he's a Championship winner and part of a team that equalled a world record.

However, it seems the reasons lay elsewhere. Gatland on the radio this morning said that Brown could always call him (not vice versa) and that "these decisions are not always about the rugby content". Make of that what you will.

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 08:52
Russell??

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 08:55
Maybe he should have changed his name to Llanbrown and he may have had a chance? Typical arrogance from #nepotistgatland in players having to call him and he even tried to put it on Rowntree by saying he had given the coaches the messages to carry back.

I know I sound like a broken record but this has to change going forwards.

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 08:56
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
Jammy Git
Halfpenny should never have travelled. One of several frankly absurd picks

I think I understand Ha'penny just for his kicking. Assuming that Sexton and Farrell are pencilled in as 10 and 12, the midweek team will need a kicker and a backup.

I can see the sense of not having to risk either of the test players on the midweek bench.

Biggar is an excellent kicker and Halfpenny's kicking is nowhere near his previous world class best. He regularly misses sitters now.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Cookie (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 09:13
Not sure where you've seen that. He was statistically the best kicker in the 6Nations: [goalkickers.co.za]

But still don't think he should have gone.

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
blucherquin (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 09:34
I'd never have taken Brown. Had a bad six nations and has only found club form since not making the Lions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2017 09:35 by blucherquin.

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 11:07
Quote:
Cookie
Not sure where you've seen that. He was statistically the best kicker in the 6Nations: [goalkickers.co.za]
But still don't think he should have gone.

By watching him miss easy kicks for Wales and Toulon, mostly. It's not a new thing - it's been for over a year now. He'll still get some tough kicks but he'll inexplicably miss straightforward chances. He never used to!

He's also not statistically the best kicker, as those stats actually show. He had a lower percentage than Lopez, Jackson, and Sexton. The heatmap's pretty interesting in terms of how few kicks he takes from the left and how many were dead straight.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
T-Bone (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 11:20
Yes, Halfpenny now tends to miss more than he used to, and every time he does the commentators trot out the "collector's item" or "rare as hens' teeth" line, even though it's no longer true.

They did it with Nev for ages, even though he's never been a completely reliable kicker.

Halfpenny shouldn't have gone, nor should Payne. I'd have Brown ahead of Kearney, Halfpenny and Payne. Even then, you have Hogg and Williams and several others who could fit in.

I don't think he'll be called on though unless a lot go down, as I reckon Kearney will be next cab off the rank. Especially as it sounds like Gatland doesn't like him or his attitude.

Suspect Robshaw can forget about a call up too

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Yareet (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 12:04
Quote:
Cookie
Midweek team will have Laidlaw, Russell and possibly Daley.

No it wouldn't (when the squad was initially announced), no it won't and I can see him as the test 23

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Cookie (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 12:08
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Cookie
Not sure where you've seen that. He was statistically the best kicker in the 6Nations: [goalkickers.co.za]
But still don't think he should have gone.

By watching him miss easy kicks for Wales and Toulon, mostly. It's not a new thing - it's been for over a year now. He'll still get some tough kicks but he'll inexplicably miss straightforward chances. He never used to!

He's also not statistically the best kicker, as those stats actually show. He had a lower percentage than Lopez, Jackson, and Sexton. The heatmap's pretty interesting in terms of how few kicks he takes from the left and how many were dead straight.

Well he only missed 3 for Wales in the 6N, 2 on the right 15m line and one on the 10m line. None remotely in front.

And the ranking is done on difficulty of the kicks. 5 of Lopez's were outside the 15, as opposed to 8 for Halfpenny. And 1 of Lopez's was outside the 10m line compared to 4 of Halfpenny's. None of the Irish kicks were from outside the 10m line.

He can only take them from where they're awarded - it's not like someone else has a go from the left! Not sure his kicking is on the wane at all and certainly the stats don't back it up.

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 12:40
Sorry Cookie, he won't start the test matches and even if there are injuries and he does, the kicking will go to Farrell or Sexton. I'm with the others Halfpenny is adding no value to this tour as a player.

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Cookie (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 12:45
Quote:
Banstead Quin
Sorry Cookie, he won't start the test matches and even if there are injuries and he does, the kicking will go to Farrell or Sexton. I'm with the others Halfpenny is adding no value to this tour as a player.

I've said he shouldn't be there. I said that earlier in the thread and I've always maintained Brown should be there ahead of him.

I also said there are other kickers for the midweek team and he wouldn't be needed for that either (Laidlaw, Russell, Daley etc).

Just pointing out that his kicking is still top drawer.

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 13:08
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Cookie
Not sure where you've seen that. He was statistically the best kicker in the 6Nations: [goalkickers.co.za]
But still don't think he should have gone.

By watching him miss easy kicks for Wales and Toulon, mostly. It's not a new thing - it's been for over a year now. He'll still get some tough kicks but he'll inexplicably miss straightforward chances. He never used to!

He's also not statistically the best kicker, as those stats actually show. He had a lower percentage than Lopez, Jackson, and Sexton. The heatmap's pretty interesting in terms of how few kicks he takes from the left and how many were dead straight.

Well he only missed 3 for Wales in the 6N, 2 on the right 15m line and one on the 10m line. None remotely in front.

And the ranking is done on difficulty of the kicks. 5 of Lopez's were outside the 15, as opposed to 8 for Halfpenny. And 1 of Lopez's was outside the 10m line compared to 4 of Halfpenny's. None of the Irish kicks were from outside the 10m line.

He can only take them from where they're awarded - it's not like someone else has a go from the left! Not sure his kicking is on the wane at all and certainly the stats don't back it up.

That's not a heat map of penalties awarded, it's a heat map of penalties they felt confident Halfpenny could land instead of going for touch.

You can't claim someone is statistically the best based on them not being statistically the best but having their numbers altered by some weird unofficial and subjective toughness modifier. Especially if it doesn't bother to take into account local conditions (wind, rain).

p.s. that one on the 22 is an absolute sitter. And 40m out with a 20 degree angle is straightforward.

But hey, I accept it's still an excellent percentage. Thing is, Mike Brown had a decent 6N and I still wouldn't claim he's good again. Both players have had a notable and extended dip, and Halfpenny's started missing kicks to take him from "world class" to just "good". It's not enough.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Cookie (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 14:54
Point would be valid if Halfpenny's range wasn't the biggest of all the kickers and he takes on longer and harder kickers than most and keeps up his percentage. I'll agree that it's a relatively small sample size, but I would suggest it's a very good indicator that he's not lost it.

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 15:10
We'll ignore them turning down almost everything on his bad side then grinning smiley



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Yareet (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 15:34
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Banstead Quin
Sorry Cookie, he won't start the test matches and even if there are injuries and he does, the kicking will go to Farrell or Sexton. I'm with the others Halfpenny is adding no value to this tour as a player.
I also said there are other kickers for the midweek team and he wouldn't be needed for that either (Laidlaw, Russell, Daley etc).

Two of who were not in the original squad.

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Cookie (IP Logged)
09 May, 2017 15:44
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Banstead Quin
Sorry Cookie, he won't start the test matches and even if there are injuries and he does, the kicking will go to Farrell or Sexton. I'm with the others Halfpenny is adding no value to this tour as a player.
I also said there are other kickers for the midweek team and he wouldn't be needed for that either (Laidlaw, Russell, Daley etc).

Two of who were not in the original squad.

Haha! Good point. One still isn't!!!

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
dancing quin (IP Logged)
12 May, 2017 18:50
Quote:
Cookie
Not sure where you've seen that. He was statistically the best kicker in the 6Nations: [goalkickers.co.za]
But still don't think he should have gone.

Hold on, that can't be right? Farrell only the 6th most accurate kicker out of 9 in the 6N? I thought he was a 'world class fly-half' (sic)? It's almost as if when you take away all the 'hype' (BS) talked about him and look at the facts and actual performances, he is just an average player...

 
Re: Brown Unhappy with Gatland
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
12 May, 2017 21:10
That's an odd post.

Firstly, he's not playing fly-half for England. Second, there's a lot more to the game than just kicking stats, which is one of the reasons why everyone's so annoyed Halfpenny is heading on tour. Farrell's all-round game has come on leaps and bounds.

That's why he's England player of the year.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis


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