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Team vs Wasps
WellingQuin (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 10:54
HARLEQUINS HAS ANNOUNCED THE MATCHDAY 23 TO FACE WASPS IN ROUND 3 OF THE AVIVA PREMIERSHIP ON SUNDAY 17TH SEPTEMBER (KICK-OFF 15:00).


Following Round 2's 28-17 victory over Gloucester Rugby, Harlequins have made two positional and two personnel changes to the starting 15 ahead of Sunday's match away to Wasps.

Dave Ward moves to hooker - as Joe Gray recovers from a fractured thumb - while Jack Clifford dons the number seven shirt.

Mat Luamanu starts at number eight with Marcus Smith coming in for Demetri Catrakilis who continues his recovery from a small fracture to a bone in his throat sustained last week against Gloucester.

After impressing in A League action on Monday night Stan South, Tim Swiel and Harry Sloan are named among the replacements.

Speaking ahead of the match, Director of Rugby, John Kingston said: “We were pleased with the victory last week at home. However, Wasps will present a formidable challenge, particularly at the Ricoh Arena, a place where they are unbeaten for almost two years.

"That said we are well aware of their strengths and we are determined to back up the performance against Gloucester.”

Harlequins team to play Wasps (Harlequins appearances)

15. Mike Brown (282)
14. Marland Yarde (76)
13. Joe Marchant (39)
12. Jamie Roberts (31)
11. Charlie Walker (69)
10. Marcus Smith (2)
9. Danny Care (226)

1. Joe Marler (154)
2. Dave Ward (119)
3. Kyle Sinckler (102)
4. George Merrick (61)
5. James Horwill (Captain, 42)
6. Chris Robshaw (241)
7. Jack Clifford (68)
8. Mat Luamanu (40)

16. Elia Elia (1)
17. Mark Lambert (211)
18. Will Collier (110)
19. Ben Glynn (2)
20. Stan South (9)
21. Dave Lewis (-)
22. Tim Swiel (42)
23. Harry Sloan (33)

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 10:56
Great to see Sloan back in the squad.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Cookie (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 10:56
Need an update on this Saili injury...........

Starting XV strong. Should be competitive. Bench not so much.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
WellingQuin (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 10:58
Wasps team to face Harlequins at the Ricoh Arena

15. Willie Le Roux
14. Christian Wade
13. Elliot Daly
12. Gaby Lovobalavu
11. Marcus Watson
10. Danny Cipriani
9. Joe Simpson
1. Matt Mullan
2. Tom Cruse
3. Jake Cooper-Woolley
4. Joe Launchbury (c)
5. Matt Symons
6. Alex Rieder
7. Guy Thompson
8. Nathan Hughes

16. Ashley Johnson
17. Simon McIntyre
18. Marty Moore
19. Will Rowlands
20. James Haskell
21. Craig Hampson
22. Rob Miller
23. Juan De Jongh

Unavailable for selection through injury

James Gaskell, Jimmy Gopperth, Kearnan Myall, Dan Robson, Kyle Eastmond, Marcus Garratt, Sam Jones, Tommy Taylor, Thomas Young.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:00
4th hooker to play in three games. Slightly ridiculous!

All in all probably the best team we can cobble together with all the injuries, although the complete lack of Tim Visser (not even mentioned in the announcement) again is very worrying.

Don't think it'll be enough to beat Wasps, and considering the long term nature of some of the injuries we've got, I suspect this will be the team for the foreseeable future. Not really much JK and co can do about that though.

Good to see Sloan on the bench.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:03
Quote:
WellingQuin
Wasps team to face Harlequins at the Ricoh Arena
15. Willie Le Roux
14. Christian Wade
13. Elliot Daly
12. Gaby Lovobalavu
11. Marcus Watson
10. Danny Cipriani
9. Joe Simpson
1. Matt Mullan
2. Tom Cruse
3. Jake Cooper-Woolley
4. Joe Launchbury (c)
5. Matt Symons
6. Alex Rieder
7. Guy Thompson
8. Nathan Hughes

16. Ashley Johnson
17. Simon McIntyre
18. Marty Moore
19. Will Rowlands
20. James Haskell
21. Craig Hampson
22. Rob Miller
23. Juan De Jongh

Unavailable for selection through injury

James Gaskell, Jimmy Gopperth, Kearnan Myall, Dan Robson, Kyle Eastmond, Marcus Garratt, Sam Jones, Tommy Taylor, Thomas Young.

Good news for us that Gopperth is out, and their list of injuries means their bench doesn't look as dangerous as it has in the past (still probably stronger than ours though).

I think their pack is there to be got at, but unfortunately so is ours, and their backs still look very dangerous.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
DOK (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:03
"4th hooker to play in three games. Slightly ridiculous! "

You're suggesting we should play injured players?

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:29
DOK - you always think the worst of people and have to defend JK even when there is absolutely no need!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/09/2017 11:40 by COYQ_2017.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:24
Quote:
DOK
"4th hooker to play in three games. Slightly ridiculous! "
You're suggesting we should play injured players?

*looks for anywhere where I suggested we should play injured players*

Hmmmm....nope.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Dave L (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:25
Again we've been absolutely walloped with the injury stick. Visser absence is troubling.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Cookie (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:32
We're missing very few starters. I'm not sure Bothma would be ahead of Luamanu, nor Wallace ahead of Clifford. All the hookers are equal, so really it's only Saili who's missing who would probably improve the team.

Time for a performance. If we play well and fade because of the bench, then I'll understand. But this XV should be competitive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/09/2017 11:46 by Cookie.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Fursty (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:37
On paper I think our starting XV is stronger - if it was at home I'd have us as favourites, as it's not I think we'll get comfortably beaten.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:40
Quote:
Cookie
We're missing very few starters. I'm not sure Bothma would be ahead of Luamanu, nor Wallace ahead of Clifford. All the hookers are equal, so really it's only Saili who's missing who would [i]probably[i] improve the team.
Time for a performance. If we play well and fade because of the bench, then I'll understand. But this XV should be competitive.

I think Bothma was brought in to start, and we're then also missing Saili and Catrakilis who are presumably fairly important to the way JK wants to play.

But you're right this is a team that should be able to compete with Wasps, and it'll be disappointing if it's a repeat of last years capitulation at the Richo.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
poorfour (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:43
Looking at those teams

Brown > Le Roux
Yarde < Wade
Marchant < Daly (but it's pretty close)
Roberts > Lovobalavu (I think. I have no idea who Lovobalavu is)
Walker = Watson
Smith < Cipriani (probably. But I bet Smith will be up for the challenge)
Care > Simpson (Simpson's quicker, but Care's all round game is better)

Marler > Mullan
Ward = Cruse
Sinckler > Cooper-Woolley
Merrick < Launchbury
Horwill > Symons
Robshaw > Rieder
Clifford < Thompson (Clifford's form not yet proven)
Luamanu < Hughes

Elia < Johnson
Lambo > McIntyre (probably)
Collier > Moore
Glynn = Rowlands
South < Haskell (but is Haskell fully fit?)
Lewis ? Hampson
Swiel < Miller
Sloan ? De Jongh

On paper I think it's pretty evenly matched, but Wasps have been more coherent and Quins' away form doesn't inspire confidence!

I think a lot depends on Ward, Clifford, Smith and Luamanu. If the first three can do their jobs and outplay their counterparts, and Luamanu can manage not to do anything stupid, we've got a shot.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:52
Quote:
COYQ_2017
DOK - you always think the worst of people and have to defend JK even when there is absolutely no need!

DOK, kindly include a defence of JK, even if you're no defending him. Some of us get confused when people attack you for something you haven't written.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Fursty (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:56
Had to google Lovobalavu too - Fijian with plenty of Top 14 experience with Toulon and then Bayonne, I'm imagining he's quite useful but agree on paper Roberts edges it.

I think you're being a little harsh on Charlie Walker too - he's certainly had more premiership rugby than Marcus Watson.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 11:56
Quote:
talkshowhost86
...the complete lack of Tim Visser (not even mentioned in the announcement) again is very worrying.

Apart from this, I'm very happy with the selection. Even as a bench option I'd have liked to see Tim on the sheet, as he does cause big problems for defences. But Charlie has earned his spot, and Tim Swiel is a very flexible bench player.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 12:02
[quote Quinky Kin][quote COYQ_2017]DOK - you always think the worst of people and have to defend JK even when there is absolutely no need![/quote]

DOK, kindly include a defence of JK, even if you're no defending him. Some of us get confused when people attack you for something you haven't written.[/quo

Bizarre post QK - more comedy value though!

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Cookie (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 12:05
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
...the complete lack of Tim Visser (not even mentioned in the announcement) again is very worrying.

Apart from this, I'm very happy with the selection. Even as a bench option I'd have liked to see Tim on the sheet, as he does cause big problems for defences. But Charlie has earned his spot, and Tim Swiel is a very flexible bench player.

You won't see a winger on the bench unless there's nobody else fit. Specialist 9, specialist 10 (Swiel there for that, not his flexibility - that's a bonus) and then someone to cover 2 positions (ideally two of centre/wing/Fcool smiley. In this instance that cover comes from Marchant ability to be able to move to the wing.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
blucherquin (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 12:23
Not hearing an update on Saili is a worry. He will transform us if he ever plays......

As above, Bothma has been bought to start at 8 and the Cat at 10, so maybe one day we'll see how that goes as well.....

As for Visser - we know there's a problem. He's either off form totally or has fallen out with the coaching set up. He's fully fit and has publicly said negative things about his situation to a fan. If it is simply a way of getting him to play better and compete...it seems not having the right effect yet.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/09/2017 12:24 by blucherquin.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 12:39
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
COYQ_2017
DOK - you always think the worst of people and have to defend JK even when there is absolutely no need!

DOK, kindly include a defence of JK, even if you're no defending him. Some of us get confused when people attack you for something you haven't written.

Tsh clearly meant that it was a ridiculous situation. DOK appeared to take it as a criticism of the selectors. Coyq's post was fine, albeit perhaps a little cryptic for your simple nature smiling smiley

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 13:15
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
COYQ_2017
DOK - you always think the worst of people and have to defend JK even when there is absolutely no need!

DOK, kindly include a defence of JK, even if you're no defending him. Some of us get confused when people attack you for something you haven't written.

Tsh clearly meant that it was a ridiculous situation. DOK appeared to take it as a criticism of the selectors. Coyq's post was fine, albeit perhaps a little cryptic for your simple nature smiling smiley

Or rather DOK was simply stating a fact - if you have injured players, you look for alternatives. And of course, JK isn't solely responsible for selection. So obvious that it probably escaped you (Sm163)

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 13:17
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
...the complete lack of Tim Visser (not even mentioned in the announcement) again is very worrying.

Apart from this, I'm very happy with the selection. Even as a bench option I'd have liked to see Tim on the sheet, as he does cause big problems for defences. But Charlie has earned his spot, and Tim Swiel is a very flexible bench player.

You won't see a winger on the bench unless there's nobody else fit. Specialist 9, specialist 10 (Swiel there for that, not his flexibility - that's a bonus) and then someone to cover 2 positions (ideally two of centre/wing/Fcool smiley. In this instance that cover comes from Marchant ability to be able to move to the wing.

Maybe, maybe not. Swiel covers FB, and in any case, if Visser came on then we could also shift Walker to FB. We have plenty of permutations that would work well, and Visser could certainly shake things up.

But far more important is whether they will rotate wings, assuming Walker and Yarde maintain form.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 13:20
Kim Il is our Leader!!(Sm71)



Illegitimi non carborundum



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/09/2017 13:21 by Scaramouche.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Cookie (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 13:21
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
...the complete lack of Tim Visser (not even mentioned in the announcement) again is very worrying.

Apart from this, I'm very happy with the selection. Even as a bench option I'd have liked to see Tim on the sheet, as he does cause big problems for defences. But Charlie has earned his spot, and Tim Swiel is a very flexible bench player.

You won't see a winger on the bench unless there's nobody else fit. Specialist 9, specialist 10 (Swiel there for that, not his flexibility - that's a bonus) and then someone to cover 2 positions (ideally two of centre/wing/Fcool smiley. In this instance that cover comes from Marchant ability to be able to move to the wing.

Maybe, maybe not. Swiel covers FB, and in any case, if Visser came on then we could also shift Walker to FB. We have plenty of permutations that would work well, and Visser could certainly shake things up.

But far more important is whether they will rotate wings, assuming Walker and Yarde maintain form.

For the avoidance of doubt (again), for me, criticism of JK is because he is the figurehead of JK/MM/CO, who have all ridden the gravy train for long enough. So, yes, MM is every bit as responsible. Less so the new coaches who need stronger guidance.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 13:28
Quote:
poorfour
Looking at those teams
Brown > Le Roux
Yarde < Wade
Marchant < Daly (but it's pretty close)
Roberts > Lovobalavu (I think. I have no idea who Lovobalavu is)
Walker = Watson
Smith < Cipriani (probably. But I bet Smith will be up for the challenge)
Care > Simpson (Simpson's quicker, but Care's all round game is better)

Marler > Mullan
Ward = Cruse
Sinckler > Cooper-Woolley
Merrick < Launchbury
Horwill > Symons
Robshaw > Rieder
Clifford < Thompson (Clifford's form not yet proven)
Luamanu < Hughes

Elia < Johnson
Lambo > McIntyre (probably)
Collier > Moore
Glynn = Rowlands
South < Haskell (but is Haskell fully fit?)
Lewis ? Hampson
Swiel < Miller
Sloan ? De Jongh

On paper I think it's pretty evenly matched, but Wasps have been more coherent and Quins' away form doesn't inspire confidence!

I think a lot depends on Ward, Clifford, Smith and Luamanu. If the first three can do their jobs and outplay their counterparts, and Luamanu can manage not to do anything stupid, we've got a shot.

I really like this player v player matchup. Thanks



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Raggs (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 13:54
As a Wasps I'd disagree over Roberts and Lovobalavu, Would have McIntyre ahead, and Rowlands ahead. Should be a good game.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 14:02
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
...the complete lack of Tim Visser (not even mentioned in the announcement) again is very worrying.

Apart from this, I'm very happy with the selection. Even as a bench option I'd have liked to see Tim on the sheet, as he does cause big problems for defences. But Charlie has earned his spot, and Tim Swiel is a very flexible bench player.

You won't see a winger on the bench unless there's nobody else fit. Specialist 9, specialist 10 (Swiel there for that, not his flexibility - that's a bonus) and then someone to cover 2 positions (ideally two of centre/wing/Fcool smiley. In this instance that cover comes from Marchant ability to be able to move to the wing.

Maybe, maybe not. Swiel covers FB, and in any case, if Visser came on then we could also shift Walker to FB. We have plenty of permutations that would work well, and Visser could certainly shake things up.

But far more important is whether they will rotate wings, assuming Walker and Yarde maintain form.

For the avoidance of doubt (again), for me, criticism of JK is because he is the figurehead of JK/MM/CO, who have all ridden the gravy train for long enough. So, yes, MM is every bit as responsible. Less so the new coaches who need stronger guidance.

? Is this a response to different post?

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Dgwasp (IP Logged)
15 September, 2017 17:58
Hey, fair player match up, should be a decent contest with a few test level players out there.

Gaby might surprise you if he continues the way he has. I was surprised Visser wasn't on the sheet, seems like things might be going on though.

For anyone travelling there is some cycling event in the centre of Coventry on Sunday so don't cut it fine travelling. See you Sunday!

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Vespulavulgaris (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 09:05
Quote:
Raggs
As a Wasps I'd disagree over Roberts and Lovobalavu, Would have McIntyre ahead, and Rowlands ahead. Should be a good game.

I struggle with Brown being better than Le Roux as well to be honest. But I guess that down to style of play. Brown would be a disaster in our backline, and I guess Willie would in yours.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
DOK (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 15:16
I think it depends on which Mike Brown we're talking about. There's been quite a difference between last season and this. In the game against Gloucester he even passed the ball so someone else could score a try! We always thought he sprayed evo stick onto his hands before a game! smiling smiley

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 22:44
Quote:
DOK
I think it depends on which Mike Brown we're talking about. There's been quite a difference between last season and this. In the game against Gloucester he even passed the ball so someone else could score a try! We always thought he sprayed evo stick onto his hands before a game! smiling smiley

There's two Mike Brown's as well...?



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 07:07
Quote:
Raggs
As a Wasps I'd disagree over Roberts and Lovobalavu, Would have McIntyre ahead, and Rowlands ahead. Should be a good game.

Come now raggs, don't be coy. Jcw as well, if not all of them winking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/09/2017 07:08 by RodneyRegis.

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Raggs (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 07:18
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Quote:
Raggs
As a Wasps I'd disagree over Roberts and Lovobalavu, Would have McIntyre ahead, and Rowlands ahead. Should be a good game.

Come now raggs, don't be coy. Jcw as well, if not all of them winking smiley

Over Collier perhaps, not over Sink though!

 
Re: Team vs Wasps
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 12:50
Late news, Stan South is out of the matchday 23 (no explanation). Replaced by Archie White.


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