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Robshaw's England future
Nemoquin (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 09:58
Ben Kay has an article in today's Times questioning Chris's international future. This is not an attack on him. Rather he is making a point about a change in the game. His argument is, in simple terms, that changes to the laws mean that the ruck is less important and the lineout more important. So, teams no longer need a six and a half and instead need a five and a half.

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 10:05
I have seen Robshaw acting as lineout receiver on many occasions.



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
West Stand Quin (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 14:14
Can see how Lawes could get the gig though at 6 as he's in the form of his life

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 14:28
As long as he stays uninjured.....



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 16:03
I'm not sure how any ruck law changes impact what Robshaw does very well. Just watched the Tigers v Glaws game and there were turnovers a plenty.

Robshaw is good in the lineout and has good hands when he carries so still think he's just as relevant as before. I actually think it'll suit him more.

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 07:15
Haven't read the article, but how on earth does lay think that the 25 or 30 lineout are more important than the couple of hundred rucks?

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
poorfour (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 14:48
Robshaw's international future has been written off ahead of almost every series since the 2012 6 Nations. Number of times he's been dropped by the England coach in that period? Zero. Bomber rested him for the traditionally experimental Argentina tour, and Eddie has picked him whenever he's been fit.

Kay is a pretty good analyst, and it may be that the role of the ruck is changing, but I think we saw last 6N that the 5-and-a-half doesn't really work at international level.

If Eddie thinks he needs something different from his 6, he will ask the candidates for it and he will pick the player who adapts best to what's been asked. Would you bet against that being Robshaw?

I mean it could be the Currys, because there actually are two of them...

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 20:19
That made I larff....🤣🤣


Quote:
poorfour
Robshaw's international future has been written off ahead of almost every series since the 2012 6 Nations. Number of times he's been dropped by the England coach in that period? Zero. Bomber rested him for the traditionally experimental Argentina tour, and Eddie has picked him whenever he's been fit.
Kay is a pretty good analyst, and it may be that the role of the ruck is changing, but I think we saw last 6N that the 5-and-a-half doesn't really work at international level.

If Eddie thinks he needs something different from his 6, he will ask the candidates for it and he will pick the player who adapts best to what's been asked. Would you bet against that being Robshaw?

I mean it could be the Currys, because there actually are two of them...



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 21:21
"Robshaw should be dropped, because he doesn't win enough turnovers"

"Now that it's harder to win turnovers, Robshaw should be dropped"

Hmm



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 21:24
And I wonder who tops the 'turnovers won' stats in the league this season...

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 22:13
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
And I wonder who tops the 'turnovers won' stats in the league this season...

You always have a good line to elusive turnovers won stats. How please?

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 22:22
AP site under stats.

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 09:29
Oh that's cool

Almost as funny - Brown top of the assists winking smiley



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 10:02
Quote:
Jammy Git
Almost as funny - Brown top of the assists winking smiley

Brad Barritt is second which probably tells you it's a bit early in the season to read too much into those smiling smiley

Robshaw is an important England player IMO but I'd like to see him back at 7 where he can do his job just as well. Lawes has been brilliant at the start of the season and if it's one or the other then on current form Lawes is ahead. I'd still prefer to see them both together with Billy at 8. I feel that would give us a balance we have lacked in the backrow. Add Hughes and Launchbury to the bench and we have great options.

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
poorfour (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 10:31
Quote:
OldMarovian
Robshaw is an important England player IMO but I'd like to see him back at 7 where he can do his job just as well. Lawes has been brilliant at the start of the season and if it's one or the other then on current form Lawes is ahead. I'd still prefer to see them both together with Billy at 8. I feel that would give us a balance we have lacked in the backrow. Add Hughes and Launchbury to the bench and we have great options.

I'd be very surprised if that happens. Eddie's been very clear that what he wants in a 7 is not what Haskell, Robshaw or any of the players who've played there provide. Underhill and Curry are likely to be the contenders for that spot (and possibly Clifford if he keeps playing the way he did on Saturday - though I think he's more likely to be bench cover).

It's possible that the law changes will lead to changes in the way the back row gets put together - but I don't think the change is that extreme.

And while Lawes is in good form, we saw last 6N what England lose when they don't have someone doing the less visible stuff.

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 14:50
Yeah, really hoping the 5.5 experiment has been put to bed. Neither Lawes nor Itoje are up to it.

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
RingwoodQuin (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 18:54
When I played representative rugby 40 years ago, we used to talk of a "flier" and a "grafter" in terms of the 6 & 7. Open and blind were not that relevant, and I can't see things have changed much. I think of Chris as the ultimate grafter, and there is no one in the uk who comes close to him. That is why he must stay in the England team for now. England and Eddie Jones are yet to find a Flier who is always first to the ball to disrupt, link or finish a move. Turnovers are no longer the flankers job - the whole team must turn over, as Marlon did brilliantly last weekend after making a saving tackle. So measuring flankers in terms of turnovers is irrelevant in the modern game.

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
poorfour (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 19:07
Quote:
RingwoodQuin
When I played representative rugby 40 years ago, we used to talk of a "flier" and a "grafter" in terms of the 6 & 7. Open and blind were not that relevant, and I can't see things have changed much. I think of Chris as the ultimate grafter, and there is no one in the uk who comes close to him. That is why he must stay in the England team for now. England and Eddie Jones are yet to find a Flier who is always first to the ball to disrupt, link or finish a move. Turnovers are no longer the flankers job - the whole team must turn over, as Marlon did brilliantly last weekend after making a saving tackle. So measuring flankers in terms of turnovers is irrelevant in the modern game.

Well said. On an international scale, only Pocock and Hooper are better grafters. As to a flyer, it could be Clifford, it could be Underhill, it will be a Curry at some point. Itoje and Lawes have many excellent qualities, but an 80 minute workrate that is only matched by 20 minute impact subs is not one of them.

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 20:34
Quote:
poorfour
And while Lawes is in good form, we saw last 6N what England lose when they don't have someone doing the less visible stuff.

You think we would have beaten Ireland with Robshaw instead of Lawes/Itoje at 6? If only it were that simple.

 
Re: Robshaw's England future
poorfour (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 21:07
Quote:
OldMarovian
Quote:
poorfour
And while Lawes is in good form, we saw last 6N what England lose when they don't have someone doing the less visible stuff.

You think we would have beaten Ireland with Robshaw instead of Lawes/Itoje at 6? If only it were that simple.

4 points difference? I think with a fit Robshaw or Kruis we'd have had an evens chance, and both Robshaw and Kruis we'd have won. England weren't working hard enough at the breakdown and lost a key lineout that could have won them the game.

They were also lucky to win against France and Wales. One big win against Scotland did not make the "lock at 6" experiment anything like a success.


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