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Philadelphia
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 22:06
Just watching on BT Sport - there were more people at the ground for the Quins preseason game a few seasons ago!

 
Re: Philadelphia
Robertquin (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 22:21
It's a big stadium and virtually empty. What's the point?

 
Re: Philadelphia
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 22:21
Not exactly a big crowd is it, I wonder how this will be talked up?

 
Re: Philadelphia
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 22:33
BT Sport have been talking about the exciting atmosphere at the ground etc

Stadium capacity is 18,500 - with that in mind I'd be surprised if there were more than 5,000 watching.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/09/2017 22:37 by COYQ_2017.

 
Re: Philadelphia
DOK (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 22:34
Still, good try by Goneva!

 
Re: Philadelphia
Samquin (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 22:38
Commentator mentioned 10,000 in the crowd. I would be surprised if there were more than 5000. I wonder of these how many freebies.

 
Re: Philadelphia
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 22:50
I think they'll be lucky to get past 3k, judging from what I've seen of the stands. There's been comments that it's in a particulary rough part of Philly, which wouldn't help, and that College Football (of the US kind) is also on so it'll affect potential interested fans, but still, it looks almost as bad as a Thursday evening at the AJ Bell...

 
Re: Philadelphia
COYQ_2017 (IP Logged)
16 September, 2017 23:00
Getting to the stadium from down town philly via public transport was an experience!

 
Re: Philadelphia
T-Bone (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 00:08
Dreadful game. Commentary said ball was sticky, but so many unforced errors. Very poor advert for the game. Easy win for sarries

 
Re: Philadelphia
blucherquin (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 03:01
There was no one there - there never will be. It's a bizarre and awful vanity project by the Premiership. Quins need to stop spending cash in America.

"Soccer" has been there for decades and the crowds are tiny. It's destined to die unnoticed in a tiny corner of obscure minority interest.

They've been lured by the idea of a quick few quid but there's no grassroots to grow. Why aren't they targeting areas where the sport has a following that might grow - Georgia, Japan, etc

Photos on twitter show both this nonsense and the Pro 350 are a total joke.

[twitter.com]

[twitter.com]

 
Re: Philadelphia
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 03:48
Quote:
blucherquin
There was no one there - there never will be. It's a bizarre and awful vanity project by the Premiership. Quins need to stop spending cash in America.
"Soccer" has been there for decades and the crowds are tiny. It's destined to die unnoticed in a tiny corner of obscure minority interest.

They've been lured by the idea of a quick few quid but there's no grassroots to grow. Why aren't they targeting areas where the sport has a following that might grow - Georgia, Japan, etc

Photos on twitter show both this nonsense and the Pro 350 are a total joke.

[twitter.com]

[twitter.com]

Might want to re think that


[soccerstadiumdigest.com]

[soccerstadiumdigest.com]

[soccerstadiumdigest.com]

Its worth noting the last two are the second tier competitions, and the last one also contains reserve/feeder teams of the MLS Sides.

I don't think it is a waste of time, but I think you have to target certain markets/states. There is a new league launching in the US soon (Major league Rugby)

[www.usmlr.com]. Mike Ford has already signed up as a coach

 
Re: Philadelphia
blucherquin (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 04:00
Those crowds are utterly tiny for a sport with decades of investment and at a time when lots of people are worried about the damage from contact in NFL (in terms of what their kids play etc and therefore being open to marketing)

The college I went to for a year is an average size with an average quality football (American) team and the stadium held 60,000 and was full most games.

And we're talking about soccer/football - the most popular sport in the world. Premier League shown live all weekend on NBC main channels etc.

Rugby has got an even bigger mountain to climb - and markets where it's far more likely to grow given investment.

My bet is a few people are making decent money from lurIng them over there with dreams of glitter and grandeur and cheer leaders...

I'd love to see it work - but I know America well and can't see it happening.

 
Re: Philadelphia
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 05:17
I don't agree about those being tiny crowds. MLS has the 7th/8th best average attendance of any football league in the world (which is good going against more established leagues/countries, where football is the number one sport). it also compares quite well with NHL/NBA and is not to far behind MLB. Cannot really compare it to American Football as that is as good as the national sport (NFL has the highest average attendance of any Pro sport in the world).

MLS is expanding all the time, new stadiums are being built (there is a good thread on SkyScrapercity if anyone cares). I played football in America (a few years ago I admit) and I could not believe how many kids are playing (I think I am right in saying that it is played by more kids than any other sport). The Womens game is also taking off over there (the National side are one of the top sides in the world).


Canada would be better for rugby. Toronto Wolfpack are a new expansion side in RL. They started this season in League 1 (Third tier). They have just won promotion to the Championship and had crowds of 6/7,000 for every game. There is talk that Montreal will get a team in 2019 and the New York in 2020. I actually think RL would appeal more to the US but that is another argument.

I do agree with the comment about someone making a quick buck getting the games over there

 
Re: Philadelphia
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 05:45
To add to the comment about money, reading the Falcons board, they seem to think they done quite well out of it.

 
Re: Philadelphia
dancing quin (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 10:17
Quote:
HonkyTonk
I don't agree about those being tiny crowds. MLS has the 7th/8th best average attendance of any football league in the world (which is good going against more established leagues/countries, where football is the number one sport). it also compares quite well with NHL/NBA and is not to far behind MLB. Cannot really compare it to American Football as that is as good as the national sport (NFL has the highest average attendance of any Pro sport in the world).
MLS is expanding all the time, new stadiums are being built (there is a good thread on SkyScrapercity if anyone cares). I played football in America (a few years ago I admit) and I could not believe how many kids are playing (I think I am right in saying that it is played by more kids than any other sport). The Womens game is also taking off over there (the National side are one of the top sides in the world).


Canada would be better for rugby. Toronto Wolfpack are a new expansion side in RL. They started this season in League 1 (Third tier). They have just won promotion to the Championship and had crowds of 6/7,000 for every game. There is talk that Montreal will get a team in 2019 and the New York in 2020. I actually think RL would appeal more to the US but that is another argument.

I do agree with the comment about someone making a quick buck getting the games over there

If you look on the 'General Rugby League forum' and go to 'TWP tonight' thread it shows that the attendance figures for the Toronto RL games are massively inflated, with photos showing there are nowhere near 6,000-7,000 there (more like 1,000 at best). Several RL posters on there admit they are inflated.

 
Re: Philadelphia
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 10:48
At least putting on a London Irish game on st Patrick's day made sense for the plastic paddies over in the states.

I don't see the point in this game if only 19 people are going to show up.

 
Re: Philadelphia
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 12:25
Quote:
dancing quin
Quote:
HonkyTonk
I don't agree about those being tiny crowds. MLS has the 7th/8th best average attendance of any football league in the world (which is good going against more established leagues/countries, where football is the number one sport). it also compares quite well with NHL/NBA and is not to far behind MLB. Cannot really compare it to American Football as that is as good as the national sport (NFL has the highest average attendance of any Pro sport in the world).
MLS is expanding all the time, new stadiums are
being built (there is a good thread on SkyScrapercity if anyone cares). I played football in America (a few years ago I admit) and I could not believe how many kids are playing (I think I am right in saying that it is played by more kids than any other sport). The Womens game is also taking off over there (the National side are one of the top sides in the world).


Canada would be better for rugby. Toronto Wolfpack are a new expansion side in RL. They started this season in League 1 (Third tier). They have just won promotion to the Championship and had crowds of 6/7,000 for every game. There is talk that Montreal will get a team in 2019 and the New York in 2020. I actually think RL would appeal more to the US but that is another argument.

I do agree with the comment about someone making a quick buck getting the games over there

If you look on the 'General Rugby League forum' and go to 'TWP tonight' thread it shows that the attendance figures for the Toronto RL games are massively inflated, with photos showing there are nowhere near 6,000-7,000 there (more like 1,000 at best). Several RL posters on there admit they are inflated.

That's interesting, but I guess the photos cant lie. They made such a fuss over how many ST were sold etc. In that case, forget Canada then!!!!

 
Re: Philadelphia
QuickerQuin (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 12:40
Quote:
HonkyTonk
I don't agree about those being tiny crowds.

Strange?

The crowds look tiny!

 
Re: Philadelphia
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 13:28
Quote:
QuickerQuin
Quote:
HonkyTonk
I don't agree about those being tiny crowds.

Strange?

The crowds look tiny!

MLS had an average attendance of about 21k last year. Premiership rugby on the other hand had an average attendance of 15k, which is clearly massively increased by free tickets given out to big game equivalent matches. I'm not sure tiny is the right word for MLS attendances, unless you consider premiership ones to be miniscule.

 
Re: Philadelphia
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 15:02
Spot on Adi re the Irish contingent in the US and their games make sense. Munster v Leinster in Boston or Leinster v Zebre even in New York would get big crowds but Newcastle v Saracens??? It was never going to work, same as us playing out there against Exeter.

Until the Americans start putting all of their failed NFL stars into Rugby, it won't grow at all, although Blucher seems to have a good handle on US sport so would defer that to him.

As for the Leinster game in SA, I'm no expert but it didn't look like the Leinster first team either but I could be wrong.

 
Re: Philadelphia
blucherquin (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 15:36
I agree totally that the raw numbers are getting better for MLS, but you've got to consider context - high school football gets similar numbers, college ball twice as much, and it's a country of more than 300 million people.

But really I'm talking about rugby - using soccer as context - and it's taken them decades to get to those numbers, which in an American setting are still small.

And HonkyTonk suggests, I can imagine it's working for earning some short term cash but it seems unlikely (to me at least) to be an actual strategy for growing the game

 
Re: Philadelphia
dancing quin (IP Logged)
17 September, 2017 15:54
Quote:
HonkyTonk
Quote:
dancing quin
Quote:
HonkyTonk
I don't agree about those being tiny crowds. MLS has the 7th/8th best average attendance of any football league in the world (which is good going against more established leagues/countries, where football is the number one sport). it also compares quite well with NHL/NBA and is not to far behind MLB. Cannot really compare it to American Football as that is as good as the national sport (NFL has the highest average attendance of any Pro sport in the world).
MLS is expanding all the time, new stadiums are
being built (there is a good thread on SkyScrapercity if anyone cares). I played football in America (a few years ago I admit) and I could not believe how many kids are playing (I think I am right in saying that it is played by more kids than any other sport). The Womens game is also taking off over there (the National side are one of the top sides in the world).


Canada would be better for rugby. Toronto Wolfpack are a new expansion side in RL. They started this season in League 1 (Third tier). They have just won promotion to the Championship and had crowds of 6/7,000 for every game. There is talk that Montreal will get a team in 2019 and the New York in 2020. I actually think RL would appeal more to the US but that is another argument.

I do agree with the comment about someone making a quick buck getting the games over there

If you look on the 'General Rugby League forum' and go to 'TWP tonight' thread it shows that the attendance figures for the Toronto RL games are massively inflated, with photos showing there are nowhere near 6,000-7,000 there (more like 1,000 at best). Several RL posters on there admit they are inflated.

That's interesting, but I guess the photos cant lie. They made such a fuss over how many ST were sold etc. In that case, forget Canada then!!!!

smiling smiley

 
Re: Philadelphia
blucherquin (IP Logged)
18 September, 2017 01:02
Just as a "for example" because the numbers really are amazing - here's 2016 average (yes average) attendances in top college football (remember this is amateur sport..of a sort)

These are the top 10, by the time you get to number 30 in the top teams, average is still over 55,000.

Michigan. 110468
Ohio St. 107278
Texas A&M. 101917
Alabama. 101821
LSU. 101231
Tennessee. 100968
Penn St. 100257
Texas 97881
Georgia 92746
Nebraska 90200

The 100th in the list averaged 20k a game - so well ahead of Prem Rugby, which I think is about 14k.

Ball State Cardinals, the worst team in the least followed college football league managed to get just under 10k through the gates every game. And their stadium seats 22,500........



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 18/09/2017 02:35 by blucherquin.

 
Re: Philadelphia
Bob8 (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 08:32
I hope you will excuse me reviving this zombie thread.

Regarding the post suggesting the crowds are far smaller, I know the man and think his asserstion is overstated on this thread. I also know a couple of people who have attended Toronto Wolfpack matches (as opposied to the person who posted skepticism), and they consider the crowds to be approximately correct.

Which means that a Canadian team were getting 7K plus crowds in the English third tier.

They did this by giving the crowd a fun time and not just relying on the sport. It does also show how putting a team into an existing league again proves more successful than trying a brand new league (e.g. PRO Rugby).

 
Re: Philadelphia
QuickerQuin (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 08:47
Quote:
Bob8

They did this by giving the crowd a fun time and not just relying on the sport.


Oh dear!

What does 'a fun time' mean?

Shudders in anticipation.

 
Re: Philadelphia
Boonie (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 09:05
Quote:
QuickerQuin
Quote:
Bob8

They did this by giving the crowd a fun time and not just relying on the sport.


Oh dear!

What does 'a fun time' mean?

Shudders in anticipation.

+1

"not just relying on the sport"...what other point is there in going?



"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to bleat about it all over the internet"

 
Re: Philadelphia
never sleep (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 09:49
A number of years ago, I used to like to sit around on a Saturday afternoon watching sport on television or going to the pub with my mates, etc.
My wife sometimes took a different view that Saturday afternoons were either best used shopping for soft furnishings at IKEA or for buying paint from B+Q so that the dining room could be re-painted. As much fun as these activities are, they are not my prefered options for a Saturday afternoon.
Buying tickets for a sporting event (no matter how good or bad it is) is the ideal opportunity for shirking these otherwise dull activities. If you have kids and take them to said event, you also get brownie points for being out of the wife's hair for the day.
The event needs to be a "fun day out" - i.e. having bouncy castles for the kids, etc is important as then they have a good time and don't moan to their mum. Much of the time, they are unaware of how good (or even how bad) the sporting event is. The most important thing is that everyone leaves at the end of the day knowing that the day out is better than the alternative.

 
Re: Philadelphia
Bob8 (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 11:35
Quote:
Boonie
Quote:
QuickerQuin
Quote:
Bob8

They did this by giving the crowd a fun time and not just relying on the sport.


Oh dear!

What does 'a fun time' mean?

Shudders in anticipation.

+1

"not just relying on the sport"...what other point is there in going?

That is a good question. I would assert that most people attending a sporting event have little understadning of the sport they are watching. Few people will watch a sport in which they have no attachment to either team. I was once involved in getting crowds to rugby in foreign lands in which we identified what the locals like, which might come to rugby and targetted them. We worried about engaging them, making them feel part of it and a good atmosphere. Hasd we not done that (and they stopped bothering when a new regime took over), the support would start to disappear.

There were not 7000 rugby league fans in Toronto waiting for a game to attend.

 
Re: Philadelphia
Bob8 (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 11:36
Very well put, Never Sleep.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2017 11:37 by Bob8.

 
Re: Philadelphia
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 11:40
My wife knows more about Quins than I do and she can drive. Simples.



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Philadelphia
Boonie (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 12:04
Sorry, but I really don't agree with any of that.

I was a season ticket holder at Quins because they were my local team. I came to watch the match, meet friends, have a couple of beers, but mainly to watch the match. My wife is also a big rugby fan, so it was a great opportunity for us to spend time together at the weekend watching a sport we both love. We didn't know all the laws at the beginning, and we certainly don't know them all now, but we know a heck of a lot more than we did to start with. Taking that time out of our weekend to watch Quins was a commitment that we weren't going to waste a quarter of the weekend shopping or painting; we were going to watch a match, and enjoy the sport.

Most of the half time "entertainment" that Quins used to put on was fairly cringeworthy, but it was OK. It absolutely was not the reason we went, although it was part of the "match day experience". However, when the match day experience becomes more important than the match, things are going wrong. All the blather around the Big Match "experience" and pulling in people who would not normally go to a match because some "never was" from X Factor is warbling is all well and good, but when the match starts, a proportion of the crowd is not interested in the game, gets bored, and starts Mexican waves and other similar nonsense. Or keeps getting up to buy beer/snacks/go to the loo etc. That's the main reason I don't bother with the Double Header, and less and less often the Big Match.

When I started taking my daughter to the games, she was about four or five. If there were bouncy castles or facepainting she would join in, but that wasn't the reason she went; she was much more interested in something that her dad was really into, and was fascinated by that. She got an afternoon out at something completely different, was allowed to eat crisps and snacks and drink fizzy drinks, and picked up on the atmosphere of the game. She's 21 now, and if you ask her which team she supports, she will tell you "Quins" without missing a beat.

As for the assertion that "most people who attend a sporting event have little understanding of the sport they are watching", I would say that might apply to American Football, but denigrates the vast majority of rugby fans, as well as soccer, tennis, cricket etc. fans. If you end up coming to rugby primarily to watch the half time entertainment, there is something wrong with that model - when the sport becomes less important than everything else, something fundamental is lost.

Everything changes and adapts, but the lure of rugby for me is the intricacy of the game; the sheer physical power needed to play mixed with the intelligence to play to the edge of the laws. If there is half time entertainment (or pre or post match entertainment) that is really an add-on, not the main event. Otherwise, you might as well have a concert on the pitch, and play the rugby somewhere else.



"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to bleat about it all over the internet"

 
Re: Philadelphia
Man from LA (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 14:21
Quote:
Bob8
I hope you will excuse me reviving this zombie thread.
Regarding the post suggesting the crowds are far smaller, I know the man and think his asserstion is overstated on this thread. I also know a couple of people who have attended Toronto Wolfpack matches (as opposied to the person who posted skepticism), and they consider the crowds to be approximately correct.

Which means that a Canadian team were getting 7K plus crowds in the English third tier.

They did this by giving the crowd a fun time and not just relying on the sport. It does also show how putting a team into an existing league again proves more successful than trying a brand new league (e.g. PRO Rugby).

The game in question on the RL thread (Toronto v Barrow) is on youtube and no way is there 7,000-8,000 people there, occasionally you get to see the stand underneath the cameras and it is a quarter empty. There are about 2,000-3,000 people there at best (with many in the beer tents by the look of it).

 
Re: Philadelphia
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 14:45
I do like the American idea of bringing beer and food to you in your seat though!



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Philadelphia
blucherquin (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 15:30
Quote:
Scaramouche
I do like the American idea of bringing beer and food to you in your seat though!

It's a wonderful thing - I think you could do it at most rugby grounds (apart from not being able to see past the guys walking up and down the steps etc) but can you imagine doing it at football?

The food and beer would never make it to you and the money would never make it back to the seller.

 
Re: Philadelphia
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 12:42
Perhaps we could have a trial run by getting some Scouts in to raise funds by running for F&B?



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Philadelphia
Essex-Sarrie (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 14:52
Anyone that's had the pleasure to watch Italy V England at stadio olymipico will know that they also have guys walking up and down the stairs with beers and food and it works fantastically. I went on a sunny day in March and there was even a chap selling Cornettos!!!


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