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Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 15:42
So no question of intent? And we're ignoring the throw & elbow to the face? grinning smiley



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
InbetweenWasp (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 15:52
Quote:
Jammy Git
So no question of intent? And we're ignoring the throw & elbow to the face? grinning smiley

Throw is fine, there wasn't an elbow to the face (i.e. a strike), there was certainly an elbow in the face as a result of going to ground, the two are quite different.

As for intent, he intended to give Marler a taste of his own medicine, presumably.

If it was the other way around and Hasks was trying to pull Marler out of a ruck by his Mo-Hawk, or Beard and Marler freed himself and hit Hasks, or took him to ground i'd be thinking 'Stupid Hasks, got what you deserved...' not outrage that Marler had reacted to someone doing something deliberately provocative, stupid and potentially dangerous.

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 16:30
But its not the other way round and nobody is "outraged". There is a big difference between pulling a scrum cap where everyone knows the velcro will give way and a two handed violent throttle to the neck followed by a judo throw followed by a forearm to the face and throat.

Is it just me...?



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 16:33
Quote:
InbetweenWasp
Quote:
Jammy Git
So no question of intent? And we're ignoring the throw & elbow to the face? grinning smiley

Throw is fine, there wasn't an elbow to the face (i.e. a strike), there was certainly an elbow in the face as a result of going to ground, the two are quite different.

As for intent, he intended to give Marler a taste of his own medicine, presumably.

If it was the other way around and Hasks was trying to pull Marler out of a ruck by his Mo-Hawk, or Beard and Marler freed himself and hit Hasks, or took him to ground i'd be thinking 'Stupid Hasks, got what you deserved...' not outrage that Marler had reacted to someone doing something deliberately provocative, stupid and potentially dangerous.

Not sure anyone on this side of the fence is "outraged".

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 16:34
Quote:
InbetweenWasp
Quote:
Jammy Git
So no question of intent? And we're ignoring the throw & elbow to the face? grinning smiley

Throw is fine, there wasn't an elbow to the face (i.e. a strike), there was certainly an elbow in the face as a result of going to ground, the two are quite different.

As for intent, he intended to give Marler a taste of his own medicine, presumably.

If it was the other way around and Hasks was trying to pull Marler out of a ruck by his Mo-Hawk, or Beard and Marler freed himself and hit Hasks, or took him to ground i'd be thinking 'Stupid Hasks, got what you deserved...' not outrage that Marler had reacted to someone doing something deliberately provocative, stupid and potentially dangerous.

Except Marler wasn't doing anything remotely similar to pulling someone out of a ruck by their mohawk.

It was a light pull to the top of his scrum cap. Maybe a little bit irritating yes but hardly worthy of Haskell's childish reaction.

But we should ignore that really because that wasn't what led to the yellow card anyway. What really infuriated the hard man Haskell was a little bit of water that was sprayed on him to which he reacted by putting both of his hands around Marler's throat.

If you think that equals a @#$%& for tat retaliation then I'm glad you aren't in charge of any world diplomacy!

Joe wound him up. Haskell fell for it. It's as simple as that.

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Quin Kong (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 16:38
We should really thank the brand for helping secure a famous victory!



QUIN KONG

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 16:51
Nice!



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Cookie (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 16:59
There was plenty of elbow. Not a strike, but with Marler's head on the ground there was plenty of forearm/elbow which did damage, hence the bloody nose.

But I'm not sure I saw anything more than handbags. Haskell definite yellow. Marler possible yellow. We really should all be moving on.

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 17:03
Quote:
talkshowhost86

Except Marler wasn't doing anything remotely similar to pulling someone out of a ruck by their mohawk.

It was a light pull to the top of his scrum cap. Maybe a little bit irritating yes but hardly worthy of Haskell's childish reaction.


Exactly. Haskell was full of s**t when he was moaning at the ref.

One thing I feel sure about is that Haskell's daft reaction to the water is the only thing that has given this incident so much press coverage and Marler's warning. If Hask hadn't reacted there would probably have been no mention of it in any match report.

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
ukms (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 19:11
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Quote:
talkshowhost86

Except Marler wasn't doing anything remotely similar to pulling someone out of a ruck by their mohawk.

It was a light pull to the top of his scrum cap. Maybe a little bit irritating yes but hardly worthy of Haskell's childish reaction.


Exactly. Haskell was full of s**t when he was moaning at the ref.

One thing I feel sure about is that Haskell's daft reaction to the water is the only thing that has given this incident so much press coverage and Marler's warning. If Hask hadn't reacted there would probably have been no mention of it in any match report.

Some might say if there was no water in the first place he wouldn’t have reacted ...... none of it altered the result IMHO ..... it’s given us all something to chat about all week though smiling smiley

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Heath Quinn (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 19:25
Quote:
ukms
Some might say if there was no water in the first place he wouldn’t have reacted

That is true, but it's long established principle of rugby that the retaliation is punished most, this helps to prevent brawls escalating.

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
DOK (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 19:50
If it was all Marler, why was he the one underneath with an elbow across his throat?

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
ukms (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 20:02
Quote:
DOK
If it was all Marler, why was he the one underneath with an elbow across his throat?

I’m not sure anyone said it was all Marler ? ..... I’ve been very clear on my thoughts about Haskell smiling smiley

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
ukms (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 20:03
Quote:
Heath Quinn
Quote:
ukms
Some might say if there was no water in the first place he wouldn’t have reacted

That is true, but it's long established principle of rugby that the retaliation is punished most, this helps to prevent brawls escalating.

Completely agree and quite right !

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
19 September, 2017 22:43
Quote:
ukms
Some might say if there was no water in the first place he wouldn’t have reacted ......

That seems likely, but slightly misses the point that it was a colossal overreaction smiling smiley



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Monte (IP Logged)
20 September, 2017 09:09
I blame the water boy who supplied the attacking weapon.

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
20 September, 2017 10:53
Quote:
Monte
I blame the water boy who supplied the attacking weapon.

Nev must go!



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
20 September, 2017 12:58
Quote:
Scaramouche
Nev must go!

Move stung!

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
20 September, 2017 17:29
Water doesn't splash people, players do.

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
DOK (IP Logged)
20 September, 2017 21:36
Ah, the old National Rifle Water Association defence!

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
wombles222 (IP Logged)
20 September, 2017 22:38
Both were planks, the event would not of happened if both did not play their equal parts. IF one of them had not done what they did then it would not of happened. The problem is not the subjective severity of the acts, it was the fact both equally decided to let it go where it did by continuing their plankish behaviour. If either one of them decided to use the old grey matter at any stage it would of stopped earlier.

Both to blame, both punished. Both equally as embarrassing as one another as they threw their handbags and Lippi around. jobs a goodun! Lets all move on.

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
20 September, 2017 23:15
Equally? grinning smiley



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
wombles222 (IP Logged)
20 September, 2017 23:16
Quote:
Jammy Git
Equally? grinning smiley

Yes...equally.

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
20 September, 2017 23:21
Well, only one player was dishing out the handbags, and only one players had the hilarious meltdown, so I can't agree I'm afraid.

Marler was equally responsible for what happened, but Haskell's embarrassment was stratospheric.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
20 September, 2017 23:41
I think you might agree, JG, that Marler gets into more than his fair share of avoidable silliness, even if some of it is amusing. Even if The Hask looks a bit silly now, Marler's behavior is part of a pattern that even he has alluded to. When the Pit Bull was winding up the French, he got away with most of it - Marler needs to learn subtlety perhaps.

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
20 September, 2017 23:59
Marler got away with this one as much as Moore did.

Joe's problem behaviour has been violent (or abusive). He was out of control at times. I'd suggest he was very much in control in this situation, unlike Haskell...

Trying to conflate winding up an opposition player to great effect with the thuggish stuff he's done before and genuine attempts to injure people is a step too far IMO.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
21 September, 2017 00:10
Quote:
I'd suggest he was very much in control in this situation

Indeed. He was smiling for most of it! I can't help feeling that he already knew Hask was sensitive about having his headgear tugged. Sadly for Hask people will probably occasionally squirt water at him for the rest of his life!

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
21 September, 2017 00:39
Not trying to conflate the two, just commenting on Marler's ability to be involved in stuff too often. And he didn't really get away with it, he received sanction equating to a belated yellow card - granted, this option was not have been available when Moore was in the trench.

If, as you suggest, Marker knew it would specifically annoy him, it's an abuse of sorts. Just get on with the game, Joe.

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
1908 (IP Logged)
21 September, 2017 12:06
It's because they have sanitised the game too much that incidents like this happen. They don't allow a good punch up anymore. That would have got it out of their systems and we could have all got back to playing rugby again.

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
21 September, 2017 12:22
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
And he didn't really get away with it, he received sanction equating to a belated yellow card...

Whichever way we look at it, that's a yellow card for splashing some water. I don't think I'll ever get the logic of that, or the fairness. So much goes unpunished that it's a farce.

Here's a quandary - how much would Joe have gotten away with if he'd been playing for the All Blacks?! smiling smiley

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Boonie (IP Logged)
21 September, 2017 12:27
[quote Quinky Kin][quote Bolly-Quin]
Here's a quandary - how much would Joe have gotten away with if he'd been playing for the All Blacks?! smiling smiley[/quote]

He'd have needed to be offside as well in that case...



"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to bleat about it all over the internet"

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
21 September, 2017 16:30
Quote:
1908
It's because they have sanitised the game too much that incidents like this happen. They don't allow a good punch up anymore. That would have got it out of their systems and we could have all got back to playing rugby again.

Indeed, back in the day players like Brian Moore never successfully wound players up

oh, hang on... smiling smiley

BQ: you know exactly what I was referring to by "abuse" - I just didn't want open that can of worms again.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Thoughts and prayers with James Haskell
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
21 September, 2017 19:07
Fair enough.

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