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Another false dawn
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 15:50
A few baffling refereeing decisions against us aside, we were flattered by 2 fluke tries at the start of the second half. Running sideways, knocking the ball on constantly, endless stupid penalties. What exactly does Jamie Roberts offer?

 
Re: Another false dawn
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 15:56
That honestly feels a bizarre reaction. It was a great game of rugby that Quins contributed heavily to. We were committed and aggressive. Yes, there were some mistakes and some poor bits of play but that was a cracking match and considering the carnage in terms of injury it's not really a surprise it all got a bit madcap in the final quarter.

Calling those tries flukes is just weird, though.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Another false dawn
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 15:57
Great game, calm yourself RR.

 
Re: Another false dawn
T-Bone (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 15:58
Jammy, I assume you didn't watch the match as it was dire. people near me were despairing at the awful quality

 
Re: Another false dawn
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:00
I wasn't at the game, I watched it on TV. Commentators loved it, posters on other forums loved it.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Another false dawn
akb1 (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:01
Was a great game of rugby shame we lost we need to sort out our defence

 
Re: Another false dawn
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:02
We conceded fewer turnovers (i.e. knockons etc) than against Wasps, fwiw smiling smiley



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Another false dawn
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:04
I thought we played a lot of good rugby and were mugged of the win. But that's just an opinion.

How Cole and Genge didn't receive cards for other offences is beyond me; and Marland taking a forearm to the face is "no foul play" is a weird one.

DC should have cost us a scrum for not using the ball quickly enough (it's annoying that refs don't seem to punish that); a few penalties went against us that didn't seem to make much sense at all. But that's the game.

 
Re: Another false dawn
T-Bone (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:05
Sorry, didn't mean to be rude. I really thought that was poor though z from both teams

 
Re: Another false dawn
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:06
Quote:
T-Bone
Jammy, I assume you didn't watch the match as it was dire. people near me were despairing at the awful quality

Oh well, if people near you say so...

 
Re: Another false dawn
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:07
Quote:
Jammy Git
That honestly feels a bizarre reaction. It was a great game of rugby that Quins contributed heavily to. We were committed and aggressive. Yes, there were some mistakes and some poor bits of play but that was a cracking match and considering the carnage in terms of injury it's not really a surprise it all got a bit madcap in the final quarter.
Calling those tries flukes is just weird, though.

Well if contributing to games is now the benchmark then great...

 
Re: Another false dawn
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:15
The ref was poor and we had some decent moments.

But it wasn’t a good performance. Worlds away from last week.

Suggests that we will be having yet another season of inconsistency.

Not sure who decides whether that’s good enough or not.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:10
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Quote:
Jammy Git
That honestly feels a bizarre reaction. It was a great game of rugby that Quins contributed heavily to. We were committed and aggressive. Yes, there were some mistakes and some poor bits of play but that was a cracking match and considering the carnage in terms of injury it's not really a surprise it all got a bit madcap in the final quarter.
Calling those tries flukes is just weird, though.

Well if contributing to games is now the benchmark then great...

In terms of playing a full part with some great rugby, yes.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Another false dawn
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:21
Quote:
akb1
Was a great game of rugby shame we lost we need to sort out our defence

It was a great contest but not much quality on show from either side.

Huge number of errors and we were marginally worse.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Fursty (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:23
Given that responsibility now lies with the defender not to make contact with the head how did Jonny May get away with smashing Yarde in the face when's he chipped through?

 
Re: Another false dawn
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:18
You simply can't compare that performance to last week. We threw the ball from side to side, we looked knackered on 50 minutes. It was like a flashback to last season.we found ourselves 10 points clear and threw it away.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Hellequin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:22
It was a good close game a draw probably would have been the fairest result. The difference was probably Tigers seemed to get away with a few things which could have been penalties and penalties which could have been yellows.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:23
Quote:
Fursty
Given that responsibility now lies with the defender not to make contact with the head how did Jonny May get away with smashing Yarde in the face when's he chipped through?

It was Veianu, and he wasn't attempting a tackle. He jumped into the air to charge the ball down, Yarde got scragged from behind, and ended up getting smashed. However I do think he bears _some_ responsibility, I'm not sure it was totally innocent.

RR: both sides were knackered because of the pace of the game. We "threw it away" because we ended up with a ton of enforced substitutions and no control at 10 from our 3rd choice.

But hey, I fully appreciate it's very different watching it at the ground and on the telly - I'm sure people there got a very different experience.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Another false dawn
Fursty (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:34
Thanks Jammy - only saw it live as couldn't see the big screen, I know he wasn't going for the tackle but once you're in the air you're out of control and so should be held responsible for what part of the opponent you make contact with

 
Re: Another false dawn
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:29
Quote:
Jammy Git
Yarde got scragged from behind, and ended up getting smashed. However I do think he bears _some_ responsibility, I'm not sure it was totally innocent.

Why do incidents like this remind me of Luamanu, and his tackle on a guy who fell into it?

 
Re: Another false dawn
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:30
Quote:
Fursty
Thanks Jammy - only saw it live as couldn't see the big screen, I know he wasn't going for the tackle but once you're in the air you're out of control and so should be held responsible for what part of the opponent you make contact with

Especially when you put you forearm into the other player's face.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Rocker (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:31
That was ridiculous, same as our knock on that wasn't and their 2 that were that weren't given :-(

 
Re: Another false dawn
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:38
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Jammy Git
Yarde got scragged from behind, and ended up getting smashed. However I do think he bears _some_ responsibility, I'm not sure it was totally innocent.

Why do incidents like this remind me of Luamanu, and his tackle on a guy who fell into it?

I don't know. I do that Luamanu charged up to make a tackle - Veianu didn't and wasn't making a tackle. Yarde ran into him.

I think it was worth a closer look in terms of what Veianu did with his elbow but comparing it to a massive hit gone wrong doesn't really help.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Another false dawn
Ayerza wannabe (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:41
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Fursty
Thanks Jammy - only saw it live as couldn't see the big screen, I know he wasn't going for the tackle but once you're in the air you're out of control and so should be held responsible for what part of the opponent you make contact with

Especially when you put you forearm into the other player's face.

With my tigers glasses on for me Veainu jumped upwards and Yarde ran into him, will have to see it again.

 
Re: Another false dawn
kevin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:59
Very odd positioning of arms and knee if it was a genuine attempt to get to ball. Looked very dodgy to me. And if it was just a case of MY running into him then makes Veainu positioning even stranger!

 
Re: Another false dawn
tigerburnie (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 17:39
Tigers sheer doggedness took it today, two evenly balanced teams, but we are slowly starting to gel a bit. Lineout up to 71 percent is quite a climb on how it has been.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Rocker (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 17:44
Looked bad in real time live, less bad but not good still on replay. Still confused about the knock ons that weren't but were and the one's that were but weren't.... I must admit I am a very frustrated supporter again today. Poor defence, mullered (not entirely legally) in the scrums and yet again a lack of control and clear thinking when under pressure. I think we need a head shrinker more than anything else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/09/2017 17:45 by Rocker.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Dave L (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 17:50
Some very good. Some clueless. Lineout and receiving restarts a bit of a shambles to be honest. Stuff that is well and truly within our gift to sort out.

What happened with the Yarde incident where no foul play was found by the TMO? For me the player behind him pulled him back after he kicked it? Then again I only saw it on the big screen.

 
Re: Another false dawn
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 17:59
Quote:
Rocker
Looked bad in real time live, less bad but not good still on replay. Still confused about the knock ons that weren't but were and the one's that were but weren't.... I must admit I am a very frustrated supporter again today. Poor defence, mullered (not entirely legally) in the scrums and yet again a lack of control and clear thinking when under pressure. I think we need a head shrinker more than anything else.

Or a team that can coach them to deal with those situations.

It happens far too often for it to be blamed on much else.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 17:53
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Jammy Git
Yarde got scragged from behind, and ended up getting smashed. However I do think he bears _some_ responsibility, I'm not sure it was totally innocent.

Why do incidents like this remind me of Luamanu, and his tackle on a guy who fell into it?

I don't know. I do that Luamanu charged up to make a tackle - Veianu didn't and wasn't making a tackle. Yarde ran into him.

I think it was worth a closer look in terms of what Veianu did with his elbow but comparing it to a massive hit gone wrong doesn't really help.

If Veianu was attempting to block the kick, his arms should be raised. It looked more like he was trying to block Yarde. Agreed no attempt at a tackle. It was a very strange leap, whatever he was trying to do.

 
Re: Another false dawn
The Eskimo (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 18:10
Quote:
Rocker
Looked bad in real time live, less bad but not good still on replay. Still confused about the knock ons that weren't but were and the one's that were but weren't.... I must admit I am a very frustrated supporter again today. Poor defence, mullered (not entirely legally) in the scrums and yet again a lack of control and clear thinking when under pressure. I think we need a head shrinker more than anything else.

I have it on very good authority that we do already have a head shrinker and this person takes a very prominent role in the first part of the half time break in the dressing room.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/09/2017 18:11 by The Eskimo.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Rocker (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 18:26
Then they're not up to it and should be replaced....

 
Re: Another false dawn
euroquin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 19:26
But of a curate's egg. Good in parts. No lack of effort or commitment at least.

I think there might be a few reasons we lost.

First, the front row. Our second choice front row couldn't cope with the Tigers first choice in the scrum and offered less around the park.

Second, (maybe related) we sill lack enough grunt to break the gainline - Tigers seemed to do it more often and more easily than us.

Third, the injury deluge maybe impacted more on us than Tigers.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Robertquin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 19:30
He was simply doing whatever he could to prevent Yarde regaining the ball.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Seal (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 19:46
Seemed to me that Veainu originally went for the charge down but realised it was going to lead to a collision so braced mid-way through.

Telusa is one of the least dirty players you'll see grace a rugby pitch, I highly doubt he intended to harm Yarde or block him.

Ref made some bizzare decisions both ways. We could have had 2 yellows for inentional knock ons. I think we should have got a penalty try for the high tackle incident on Veainu, and 2 other yellows against Quins possibly (one at the end for cynical tackle when not retreated, another after the 4 consecutive scrum pens against Quins). All in all probably balanced out, and was an entertaining game that was constantly in the balance.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 20:56
Quote:
Robertquin
He was simply doing whatever he could to prevent Yarde regaining the ball.

By fair means or foul...

 
Re: Another false dawn
wombles222 (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 21:14
I have watched the Yarde incident again, and actually find no foul play at all, Telusa jumps to charge down the ball, he does not jump into the path of Yarde, and indeed does not attempt to arrest Yardes route by sticking a limb out into his route. Telusa is entitled to hold his own space, and he does just that. What makes it look worse is that Yarde is being tackled at the time, which causes his body to start to drop, therefore the impact, rather than being more chest/torso is now upper chest, neck. This makes things look more dramatic. It is a pure rugby incident, with no offence taking place.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Grumpy Bloke (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 21:37
What a cracking game of rugby ! Don't agree with the title of this thread. I thought the Quins team gave everything they had and showed real class against an equally good team. Leicester were smart in the last ten minutes and defended extremely well to win the game. A draw would have been a fair result but Quins could have won it, it was that close and tense ! Really good atmosphere at the Stoop and the two Ravens fans sitting behind us loved it.

 
Re: Another false dawn
RleQuin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 23:03
Let's face it, nothing has changed.
One week we look unbeatable, the next we look as though we have just met, then we get better, rubbish again and then we cause a shock.
We need a new coaching team who don't just pick players on reputation.
There just doesn't seem to be any competition for places.
Then the players need to stop believing their own publicity and get down to producing a long winning run.
Our squad seem to get injured at the drop of a hat now - could this be a conditioning problem?
RleQ

 
Re: Another false dawn
Dibden (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 06:21
If Deano or Baxter were our coach would we be where we are?Or would they get a lot more out of the players?To me the answer is a resounding yes

 
Re: Another false dawn
never sleep (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 06:38
Quote:
Dibden
If Deano or Baxter were our coach would we be where we are?Or would they get a lot more out of the players?To me the answer is a resounding yes
Oh here we go again...
Why have you changed your name?

 
Re: Another false dawn
raedarius (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 06:44
Definitely a false dawn. A return to the normal style of play. Buchanan on the wing, side to side rugby. If these are Kingston's tactics then he'd already given them to COS for full use with the part of Buchanan played by Robson.

Also, a return to the "relaxed" version of Yarde. I accept that he probably couldn't stop May's try, but to allow him to come infield for an easy two points was unforgivable. Had the score remained 28-28, that would have cost us the win.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Cookie (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 08:17
Positives:
Smith (controlled everything)
Luamanu (again)
Clifford (much improved)
Alofa (no rust - see Swiel)

Negatives:
Hookers/linout (again)
Swiel (even if rust a factor)
Scrummaging (although unusual)
Back row cover (why have we not signed cover for Wallace/Bothma/Chis - had 3 locks on the pitch for a long period)
Lewis/Mulchrone (seemingly can't be trusted with any minutes at all)

In summary, a couple of key decisions and injuries went against us. On Veianu, watch him immediately go to Yarde after contact to apologise/see how he was as he knew he'd caught him. Definite penalty and yellow for me.

No need to get too exorcised about this one for reasons above. You'd like to win these ones, but sometimes they go against you. Largely played well with a couple of issues that can be fixed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/09/2017 08:20 by Cookie.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 09:34
Mostly agree with you Cookie. There will always be games that we lose. In the main, I saw some much improved rugby, which is what has been clamoured for. There were negatives but I personally think we were robbed in a tight match.

It is so disappointing when some of the usual suspects just jump on their favourite culprits after a loss like this, although I guess it's inevitable.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 09:32
Another positive was Horwill - an excellent game from him.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Dave L (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 09:42
Quote:
Cookie
Positives:
Smith (controlled everything)
Luamanu (again)
Clifford (much improved)
Alofa (no rust - see Swiel)

Negatives:
Hookers/linout (again)
Swiel (even if rust a factor)
Scrummaging (although unusual)
Back row cover (why have we not signed cover for Wallace/Bothma/Chis - had 3 locks on the pitch for a long period)
Lewis/Mulchrone (seemingly can't be trusted with any minutes at all)

In summary, a couple of key decisions and injuries went against us. On Veianu, watch him immediately go to Yarde after contact to apologise/see how he was as he knew he'd caught him. Definite penalty and yellow for me.

No need to get too exorcised about this one for reasons above. You'd like to win these ones, but sometimes they go against you. Largely played well with a couple of issues that can be fixed.

Yeah, I feel similar in the cold light of day. The lineout is very irritating, we give away so many good attacking platforms through poor lineouts and it has been an issue for a couple of years now.

 
Re: Another false dawn
STOOPER (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 09:48
Dissapointed with the outcome of yeterday's game, some poor decision making under pressure as usual cost as usual. However we were not helped by some very variable and inconsistent decisions from the ref.

How come the change from last week whe Cipriani gets a yellow for a deliberate knock on but this same offence, no card. Surely it's not down to ref to adjust the rules. Same offence should be same outcome surely.

Further the ref/officials clearly did not offer certain players any protection from what were clearly late tackles, in the Daily Mail this moring it reports that Matt O, Connor was shouting at Genge to " Shut Marcus Smith Down " which he clearly attempted to do on a few occasions.

The selection of the referee for this high profile games is now almoat as critical as the actual team sheet. But it should not be the lottery it currently is as to how the lows are invoked!!

 
Re: Another false dawn
Cookie (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 09:50
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Another positive was Horwill - an excellent game from him.

Indeed he did. Guilty of taking that for granted!

 
Re: Another false dawn
DOK (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 10:11
In the cold light of day, it was a great game. And to lose to Leicester by three points, even home, is hardly the end of the world. How many people had that down for a "W" for us at the start of the season?

The galling thing is we could have won it! The game was there for the taking with a bit more discipline, a bit more attention to the ref and a lot more TCUP!

That first Leicester try? We just marched them up the field giving away penalty after penalty! If we just played with our game heads on for the first 10 minutes we'd have won.

AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaarrrrggggghhhhhhhhhh!

 
Re: Another false dawn
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 10:57
Regarding Veianu blocking of Marland, what happened to the interpretation of you are responsible for your actions and the outcome. Majority of payers don't mean to hurt anyone but to jump to block a kick in direct line of the runner at full speed is always going to result in a collision. To me he caught Marland with his forearm that he had raised to protect himself with no effort to wrap his arms. The outcome was Marland laid out by a combination of the Genge tackle and Veianu's forearm.

The lack of yellow cards for Genge and Cole was a big mistake that the TV review guy should have pointed out to the ref. Also quite a few forward knock ons waved on while others that appeared to drop straight down and then back were pinged.

Tigers always looked more likely to score but we should have pressured them more as we did against Wasps....chance lost.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Mayor West (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 12:14
The commentators said that there should have been a yellow for the lazy runner catching the ball that gave us the penalty that Danny scored from. Coles was a nailed on yellow but nothing. The only yellows in the end were for Genge and Will which I thought was harsh on Will as I'm pretty sure it was Genge causing the problem. Frustrating as you know that if a Quins player had committed these offences they WOULD get a yellow.

 
Re: Another false dawn
SiBolton (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 13:47
Not sure it's a false dawn, maybe expecting too much?
Think the Marland incident was a clear yellow, having just watched it back, and would have perhaps resulted in a draw, that being said DC getting rid of the ball on 80 and not kicking for touch was possibly not the best move
But taking all that into account, beaten by the better team secured a LBP, 5th in the table and alls not lost

Let's hope the post match interview talk of " use it" works out well for the trip to Gardens next Saturday

 
Re: Another false dawn
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 14:52
Two wins and two defeats.

One shocking performance and one excellent performance.

Consistently inconsistent.

6th in the league.

The more things change the more they stay the same eh?

 
Re: Another false dawn
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 14:57
Quote:
Mayor West
The commentators said that there should have been a yellow for the lazy runner catching the ball that gave us the penalty that Danny scored from. Coles was a nailed on yellow but nothing. The only yellows in the end were for Genge and Will which I thought was harsh on Will as I'm pretty sure it was Genge causing the problem. Frustrating as you know that if a Quins player had committed these offences they WO ULD get a yellow.

The yellow for the props was harsh on Genge - Collier collapsed that one.

And after the Yarde incident we cheated like hell on their breakaway, 5m from our own tryline, most probably saving a try, and didn't get a yellow.

It really wasn't one-way traffic.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Another false dawn
DOK (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 17:50
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Two wins and two defeats.
One shocking performance and one excellent performance.

Consistently inconsistent.

6th in the league.

The more things change the more they stay the same eh?

If you very carefully ignore the fact we beat Wasps away, with all that entails, then yes, look what you can prove with carefully cherry picked statistics!

 
Re: Another false dawn
Cookie (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 18:03
Quote:
DOK
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Two wins and two defeats.
One shocking performance and one excellent performance.

Consistently inconsistent.

6th in the league.

The more things change the more they stay the same eh?

If you very carefully ignore the fact we beat Wasps away, with all that entails, then yes, look what you can prove with carefully cherry picked statistics!

I totally get that and was very congratulatory on that result, but I think the point he's trying to make is what's the point of beating Wasps away if you're not going to beat Irish on neutral ground, especially given their subsequent results.

 
Re: Another false dawn
DOK (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 18:08
If we played them next Saturday we'd beat them.

 
Re: Another false dawn
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 18:42
Quote:
DOK
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Two wins and two defeats.
One shocking performance and one excellent performance.

Consistently inconsistent.

6th in the league.

The more things change the more they stay the same eh?

If you very carefully ignore the fact we beat Wasps away, with all that entails, then yes, look what you can prove with carefully cherry picked statistics!

Except that I didn’t ignore the Wasps win at all.

I specifically mentioned it in fact.

 
Re: Another false dawn
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 19:19
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
DOK
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Two wins and two defeats.
One shocking performance and one excellent performance.

Consistently inconsistent.

6th in the league.

The more things change the more they stay the same eh?

If you very carefully ignore the fact we beat Wasps away, with all that entails, then yes, look what you can prove with carefully cherry picked statistics!

Except that I didn’t ignore the Wasps win at all.

I specifically mentioned it in fact.

Quite. Odd comment DOK. The wasps result is part of the point about inconsistency.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Dark Pies (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 20:52
So back on the topic of whether this is a 'false dawn' and also continuing the discussion started on the (now closed) 'Kingston In' thread....

I said that i felt this block of 3 matches (Wasps/Tigers/Saints) was make or break for our Prem season and proposed we could look at the results like this:

Win 3/3 = KINGSTON IN
Win 2/3 and nobody's really complaining i hope
Win 1/3 and we'll all still be arguing about whether that's good or bad
Win 0/3 = KINGSTON OUT

So we've won 1 of 2...not the one that we thought we'd win but a great win! And yes we are still arguing about whether its all looking good or bad!

For me the Tigers performance was encouraging and above the level we played at most of last season.... it was close and we could have nicked it at the death after all.
BUT still loads of concerns and doubts that we can sustain any improvements through a long season. We are IMO just not a side with strength in depth that can sustain big performances for 9mths of the year...

- Front and back rows looking thin even before internationals depart!
- They seem to have given up on fixing the lineout after 3yrs of having the worst success % in the league.
- Now scrum (generally has been one bright point) also seems underpowered without Marler. Collier and Lambert were absolutely destroyed yesterday, albeit by a very good pack. But if our #2 choices are such a big step down we are never going to compete for Top 4!
- Endless shuffling side-to-side unable to make any gains unless we draw a penalty or Luamanu manages not to drop the ball
- Care, Brown and Robshaw all showing signs of being past their peak form. Still all class, but have not got the x-factor or hunger they all had 5yrs ago.

But some positives of course e.g. Smith is a breath of fresh air and looking forward to seeing Saili play.

Today a load of photos popped up on my social media from one year ago today showing the celebrations after the win against Sarries at home . Last year's 'false dawn' !
At the time my circle of mates felt that we'd turned a corner, but it really marked the beginning of another year of bizarre inconsistency...beating everyone at home except Tigers and Exeter and getting humped away from home time and time again.

I'd love to be wrong but i think many of us in our heart-of-heats know that we're going to get yet another rollercoaster season where we can beat anyone when we're firing, but will misfire and stumble too often to make any real inroads on Top 4, esp when our first choice players are away or injured.

I'm calling it and saying we'll finish 6th again this season, with a QF exit from Europe. #COYQ

 
Re: Another false dawn
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 08:19
Well lets enjoy the journey then, eh?



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Another false dawn
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 09:42
Quote:
Dark Pies

- Care, Brown and Robshaw all showing signs of being past their peak form. Still all class, but have not got the x-factor or hunger they all had 5yrs ago.


Really? I agree with some of your other points, but Robshaw... for me, he doesn't seem to EVER lose form or fitness. I think it was the LI game where he dropped the ball at a ruck and it seemed a huge error simply because he doesn't seem to make any normally. Care seems fizzing again (maybe due to not being captain); Brown is fired up again and showing positives - not the force of nature that he used to be, but still as hungry as ever.

 
Re: Another false dawn
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 10:38
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Dark Pies

- Care, Brown and Robshaw all showing signs of being past their peak form. Still all class, but have not got the x-factor or hunger they all had 5yrs ago.


Really? I agree with some of your other points, but Robshaw... for me, he doesn't seem to EVER lose form or fitness. I think it was the LI game where he dropped the ball at a ruck and it seemed a huge error simply because he doesn't seem to make any normally. Care seems fizzing again (maybe due to not being captain); Brown is fired up again and showing positives - not the force of nature that he used to be, but still as hungry as ever.

Yup there's a lot of issues with the club at the moment but those three are certainly not on that list.

I remember thinking exactly the same thing against LI when Robshaw dropped the ball. There was almost complete shock all around me at what had happened such was it's improbability.

What we do need to do though is have players who can come in and replace them if they are injured/off with England.

For me we have serious issues in the back row when Robshaw isn't there (as was shown on Saturday), I'm not convinved either Morris or Chisholm are the required level at full back (and Swiel never seems to play there) and our own management don't seem to trust Lewis at this stage so not sure what we do at scrum half when Danny is off.

 
Re: Another false dawn
Dark Pies (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 10:39
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Dark Pies

- Care, Brown and Robshaw all showing signs of being past their peak form. Still all class, but have not got the x-factor or hunger they all had 5yrs ago.


Really? I agree with some of your other points, but Robshaw... for me, he doesn't seem to EVER lose form or fitness. I think it was the LI game where he dropped the ball at a ruck and it seemed a huge error simply because he doesn't seem to make any normally. Care seems fizzing again (maybe due to not being captain); Brown is fired up again and showing positives - not the force of nature that he used to be, but still as hungry as ever.

Fair comment. Yeah i was thinking more in terms of speed. Care and Brown have lost a bit of pace and zippiness even if their effort level seems to have picked up this season. With Robshaw the speed isn't such a thing of course, but he's so indestructible that when he goes off injured it feels like a bit of a watershed moment where he's suddenly aged a little bit.

In any case i love all 3 of them but there's no denying that age is going to catch up with all of them eventually and our 'golden generation' is running out of time...

 
Re: Another false dawn
RleQuin (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 11:29
Brown hasn't been the same since the injury at Northampton when he went on to the concrete.
As I've said before, we need competition for places - at the moment, there appears to be none.
At least more people are beginning to realise we are going nowhere - complete inconsistency throughout the vast majority of our squad and performances.
JK comes out with the same old "hurting" quotes - it is utter nonsense. Everyone knows we should have won that game against Leicester. Do we know if there is someone like a kit man who is carrying all this hurt to every game?
RleQ

 
Re: Another false dawn
DOK (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 11:43
Brown is certainly on an upward curve at the moment (that jinxed him). Was a bit lost last season but with his new found skill at passing, he seems some way back to his old self (except that self never passed!)

smiling smiley

 
Re: Another false dawn
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 13:54
The commentators mentioned something interesting when Lewis Boyce came on. They described him as a "rough diamond", and "abrasive"; they also referred to training during the week and alluded to things getting a bit feisty. Anyone aware of what they were talking about?

 
Re: Another false dawn
PickledPelican (IP Logged)
27 September, 2017 22:12
Socks...Glass game was 1 grey, 1 Brown. Tiger was 2 Brown......?????


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