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Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Cookie (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:07
Keep hearing from lots of people that he deserves more time at 10. Today proved why he doesn't. We lost control of the game when Smith went off. His passing in particular was laboured and telegraphed. Understandable why Smith played 80 mins last week when we won at the Ricoh and we would have won this week if he'd stayed on.

A bit harsh to single him out, I know, but I really think we suffered because Smith broke.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:09
Yeah, he's a useful utility back, but not a 10 - I've been banging this particular drum for a while. He can't play flat and his kicking game is rudimentary as well.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:15
Yep, 4 games in and I already feel far more confident with Smith playing. He's first choice for sure.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Fursty (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:26
Robshaw going off shortly beforehand was a bigger blow

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:21
Smith's kicking from hand is still a worry, he's losing us a lot of territory there. Much happier with his general control of the game though, he's settled in nicely to our attacking patterns and is really noticeable in general play.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Rocker (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:25
Yes Robshaw was the bigger loss. We lost shape in defence and attack (not as much) when he went off. How were Leicester allowed to bring back on their 13?

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Hellequin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:26
No particular problem with Swiel at 10. He probably is 3rd choice now behind Catrakillis and Smith. He still looks good on the run but behind the others in terms of kicking and managing play.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
QuinAlan (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:27
I'm sure Tim would be fine if he had game time actually playing at 10. As it is, young Smith has grown into the position & we do now look very fluent with him. We seemed to lose it today when Robshaw went off, he's the glue that holds us together. Scrums were awful today. Disappointing loss.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:29
Quote:
Rocker
Yes Robshaw was the bigger loss. We lost shape in defence and attack (not as much) when he went off. How were Leicester allowed to bring back on their 13?

Smith came back on as a screw up, the officials accepted the mistake and Joe Ford went on instead.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:31
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Rocker
Yes Robshaw was the bigger loss. We lost shape in defence and attack (not as much) when he went off. How were Leicester allowed to bring back on their 13?

Smith came back on as a screw up, the officials accepted the mistake and Joe Ford went on instead.

Smith was on for a few minutes. Will there be some kind of sanction against Tigers for "accidentally" breaking the laws?

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Cookie (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:58
Quote:
QuinAlan
I'm sure Tim would be fine if he had game time actually playing at 10. As it is, young Smith has grown into the position & we do now look very fluent with him. We seemed to lose it today when Robshaw went off, he's the glue that holds us together. Scrums were awful today. Disappointing loss.

Except he had as much pre season as Smith and didn't hit the ground running in the same way.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 19:10
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
QuinAlan
I'm sure Tim would be fine if he had game time actually playing at 10. As it is, young Smith has grown into the position & we do now look very fluent with him. We seemed to lose it today when Robshaw went off, he's the glue that holds us together. Scrums were awful today. Disappointing loss.

Except he had as much pre season as Smith and didn't hit the ground running in the same way.

Er, no. Swiel and Catrakilis both missed pre-season games with injury. Smith & Lang played the majority of pre-season games.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 19:19
Regardless, I think Smith is in a different league to Swiel as a 10.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
never sleep (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 06:04
Swiel is a good choice to have on the bench. He covers FB and FH. He is quick so he can cover wing and I think he has played at centre during an a league game. But, he is behind Lang in terms of quality at FH. This game is the first time this season that he had played at FH. He missed pre season and played at FB in a league.
I think that having no a league last Monday hurt us. Some players looked short of game time.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
10 (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 07:42
Swiels first opportunity this season?

Looked a bit rusty but such is the quality of Smith, a hard act to follow

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Cookie (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 10:18
Quote:
Fearless Fred
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
QuinAlan
I'm sure Tim would be fine if he had game time actually playing at 10. As it is, young Smith has grown into the position & we do now look very fluent with him. We seemed to lose it today when Robshaw went off, he's the glue that holds us together. Scrums were awful today. Disappointing loss.

Except he had as much pre season as Smith and didn't hit the ground running in the same way.

Er, no. Swiel and Catrakilis both missed pre-season games with injury. Smith & Lang played the majority of pre-season games.

Just checked as it's not how I remembered it and Swiel started against Bristol and was involved against Irish. Smith started against Jersey.

He then fell behind Catrikilis and came back on the bench as an unused sub for Wasps. Also saw him in all the pre-season video (e.g. at the adidas centre). So not a valid excuse.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
24 September, 2017 11:45
Totally agree. Swiel is the new Botica Iím afraid. Not good enough at this level.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 12:01
Looks like someone has a new name...

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
akb1 (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 12:02
Swiel was not involved in the pre season game v Irish, he was named in the squad but was then pulled out because he was injured.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 12:07
Swiel has a very good skill set and is a useful utility back. He wasn't a game changer yesterday; he did however come on in place of the excellent Smith, and it was his first proper rugby after an injury, and a few runouts in the A-league, albeit in a different position.

He's shown previously that he can play well at 10, especially after a run of games.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Bucksquin (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 17:12
"The Clown" (for short ó but it seems to suit) is deliberately trying to be rude and offensively provocative. Does this board need people like that DOK?

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
DOK (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 17:42
Well, they tend to be fiercely one eyed. They either have a single item they wish to ram down people's throat "JK out" "David Ellis out" "Everyone currently managing the club out" or they're general irritations that just try and post negative stuff to get a reaction. From the title this looks like a "David Ellis out" type, with the "trying to be as negative as possible so we can sack DE" approach. Best ignored if you can.

Just saw the other post on Lambo - well beyond the pale, so gone in this particular incarnation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/09/2017 17:46 by DOK.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 18:01
Quote:
DOK
Well, they tend to be fiercely one eyed. They either have a single item they wish to ram down people's throat "JK out" "David Ellis out" "Everyone currently managing the club out" or they're general irritations that just try and post negative stuff to get a reaction. From the title this looks like a "David Ellis out" type, with the "trying to be as negative as possible so we can sack DE" approach. Best ignored if you can.
Just saw the other post on Lambo - well beyond the pale, so gone in this particular incarnation.

Nice one DOK.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
QuinAlan (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 17:54
Well played DOK..!!

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 18:34
Thanks DOK

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
QuinAlan (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 20:14
Back to Cookie's original thread. If Lang has had game time so far at 10, how would he shape up in the first team? Only seen him play once so cant comment. Is he on a level with Swiel & Catrakilis? If so then should he get some starts? What does he bring to our game that might be different? Genuine question.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Rocker (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 20:17
A bit harsh I feel. Didn't Swiel put in an excellent performance last year (?) in Ireland

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 20:18
Trust Nev. I think he knows what he is doing, and he cares.



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Banstead Quin (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 11:54
Quote:
Rocker
A bit harsh I feel. Didn't Swiel put in an excellent performance last year (?) in Ireland

That's right Rocker, people on here have short memories. Swiel has put in some excellent performances for us before and now he comes on in a game where we were staring to go backwards and it's all his fault!

Start him at 10 for a few games and it'll all be forgotten.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Stooperman (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 12:28
It's very hard to tell whether it was Robshaw or Smith going off which had the most significant impact. Certainly we seemed to lose our composure - which often seems to be the case when Swiel comes on, we tend to go a bit headless chicken. But alos our defensive alignment went to pieces as did our tackling - is that down to defensive organisation from 10, or a lack of 2 Robshaws tackling evrything in sight?

Overall I'd say it was a very enjoyable game of rugby from two sides with attacking intent who were evenly matched. Our lack of back row depth and general weakness off the bench was probably the deciding factor, although I do feel that over the 80 minutes we suffered a little more than Leicester at the hands of a ref who was woefully out of his depth.

Positives, Marcus Smith, Mike Brown much improved, good effort around the park from both locks

Negatives : Robshaw injury, lack of impact from bench, mullered in the scrums, more dopiness at lineout.

In short, the script hasn't changed much, and we'll probably go into the last match of the season with no silverware, but a shot at finishing 6th.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 13:51
Another positive for me was seeing Big Matt galloping in from all of 80 metres (or maybe a bit less, but it was just as enjoyable). Great support work from the big guy.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Cookie (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 14:20
Big fan of Luamanu once he sorted his tackling out. He's carrying is strong and made all his tackles v Tigers.

He's been one of the biggest plusses in 2017 and I genuinely think Bothma will struggle to get the jersey off him when fit.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
The Baptist (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 15:07
Quote:
Cookie
Big fan of Luamanu once he sorted his tackling out. He's carrying is strong and made all his tackles v Tigers.
He's been one of the biggest plusses in 2017 and I genuinely think Bothma will struggle to get the jersey off him when fit.

I like Luamanu at 8, and he took his try well, but the guy needs to get back to where he was a few years ago and shed some pounds.
He scored tries like that every week when he played in the ITM cup.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
T-Bone (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 16:10
Luamanu has improved considerably with more game time this season. At first his handling was dire and he looked unfit, but he has been much improved. Watching the Wasps game back, I hadn't realised at the time how often he was the receiver when we were running down the clock, and didn't let us down.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 16:18
Quote:
Cookie
Big fan of Luamanu once he sorted his tackling out. He's carrying is strong and made all his tackles v Tigers.
He's been one of the biggest plusses in 2017 and I genuinely think Bothma will struggle to get the jersey off him when fit.

I know you've taken agin Bothma generally, but whilst I agree that Luamanu has started the season well, I'm looking forward to seeing Bothma and whether he can challenge for that position. We've lacked depth in so many positions for a few years, and it will be great to have a couple of decent options at 8 once Bothma is back.

Not sure it's always good to have an obvious 'first team' and I'd much rather have a squad like Exeter where lots of players can step into the first team and do a job.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
MrOther (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 16:30
I haven't been a fan of Luamanu, but I loved his try. Everything about it.

Turnover possession.
The lightning reaction of Smith to put Yarde away in the first place.
That Yarde kept the ball alive and got his pass away in the tackle.
And the - what was it? - 30 or 40 yards of Luamanu galumphing to the line, fending off the faster defender, getting there and getting the ball down without losing it forward.

Fantastic.

 
Re: Sorry, But Swiel Is Not A 10
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
26 September, 2017 13:43
Quote:
Banstead Quin
Quote:
Rocker
A bit harsh I feel. Didn't Swiel put in an excellent performance last year (?) in Ireland

That's right Rocker, people on here have short memories. Swiel has put in some excellent performances for us before and now he comes on in a game where we were staring to go backwards and it's all his fault!

Start him at 10 for a few games and it'll all be forgotten.

He really hasn't. He's put in one decent performance as a starter and that's about it.

My view on him has been consistent because he hasn't really done anything to cause me to change it, so the accusations of short memories is wide of the mark.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/09/2017 13:44 by Jammy Git.


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