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Team's Up!
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 10:48
HARLEQUINS MAKE THREE CHANGES FOR EUROPEAN CHAMPIONS CUP OPENER
Friday, 13th October 2017 @ 12:00


HARLEQUINS HAS ANNOUNCED THE SQUAD TO PLAY LA ROCHELLE IN THE OPENING ROUND OF THE EUROPEAN RUGBY CHAMPIONS CUP, AT THE STOOP ON SATURDAY, KICK-OFF 17:30 (LIVE ON SKY SPORTS).


There are three changes to the starting team that played Sale Sharks last week in the Aviva Premiership.

Mike Brown returns from injury to start at full-back and is the only change within the backline.

In the forwards James Horwill has recovered from concussion to captain the side while Ben Glynn starts in a re-shuffled back row at blindside flanker.

Glynn replaces the injured Jack Clifford who misses out after injuring his shoulder last week.

Among the replacements, summer signing Francis Saili will look to make his senior debut for the Club.

Speaking ahead of the match, Director of Rugby John Kingston said: “Everyone at Harlequins has been waiting for the start of the European Rugby Champions Cup campaign from the moment we secured our place back in May.

“La Rochelle are a very impressive side and their recent record in the French domestic league speaks for itself.

“Saturday night will however, see a special atmosphere in The Stoop and all concerned can’t wait to get going.”

Harlequins (Harlequins appearances)
15. Mike Brown (284)
14. Marland Yarde (80)
13. Joe Marchant (43)
12. Jamie Roberts (35)
11. Tim Visser (39)
10. Marcus Smith (6)
9. Danny Care (230

1. Joe Marler (156)
2. Dave Ward (123
3. Will Collier (113)
4. Charlie Matthews (143)
5. James Horwill (Captain, 44)
6. Ben Glynn (5)
7. Chris Robshaw (244)
8. Mat Luamanu (44)

16. Elia Elia (2)
17. Mark Lambert (215)
18. Phil Swainston (2)
19. George Merrick (65)
20. Archie White (5)
21. Dave Lewis (2)
22. Tim Swiel (45)
23. Francis Saili (-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/10/2017 10:58 by Fearless Fred.

 
Re: Team's Up!
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 10:50
Good to see Saili on the bench.

Back row with Glynn in it looks a bit weak, but not really much we can do about that.

Again we look under-powered and with not much off the bench, but to be honest with the injuries the team pretty much picks itself.

Now down to the players to do their bit.

 
Re: Team's Up!
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 10:52
I don't think the bench is that bad. I would have been tempted to start White in the back row

 
Re: Team's Up!
Cookie (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 10:57
Mightily unimpressed that we're going in to our return in the Champions Cup with an injury reserve lock playing at 6. We absolutely should have signed someone on a 3 month deal until Luke is back.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Rugby Convert (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:06
Good team, I can't remember the last time Robshaw started at 7 though. Also great to see Saili on the bench, I'm excited to see how he will do for us this year.

 
Re: Team's Up!
WellingQuin (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:08
Le XV de départ
1. Dany PRISO
2. Hikairo FORBES
3. Uini ATONIO
4. Jason EATON (cap)
5. Jone QOVU
6. Kévin GOURDON
7. Zeno KIEFT
8. Victor VITO

9. Alexi BALES
10. Ryan LAMB
11. Jérémy SINZELLE
12. Geoffrey DOUMAYROU
13. Paul JORDAAN
14. Vincent RATTEZ
15. Kini MURIMURIVALU

Les remplaçants
16. Pierre BOURGARIT, 17. Mike CORBEL, 18. Vincent PELO, 19. Grégory LAMBOLEY, 20. Afa AMOSA, 21. Jean-Victor GOILLOT, 22. Pierre AGUILLON, 23. Gabriel LACROIX

 
Re: Team's Up!
Bellyfull (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:12
Bit concerned that Smith is being overplayed he is a young man, he needs to be looked after

 
Re: Team's Up!
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:12
Don't know a massive amount about La Rochelle. Is that a full strength side does anyone know??

 
Re: Team's Up!
T-Bone (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:15
Why don't we have White or Lamb starting in the back row?

Otherwise, good team.

Hard on Morris to drop out completely, but guess that's the way it goes.

Good to see Horwill back.

Wonder how long Collier will last.

Be good to have an update on Gray, Bunchanan, Walker et al

 
Re: Team's Up!
13 October, 2017 11:17
Ryan lamb? A blast from the past......

 
Re: Team's Up!
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:17
On the positive side, we have some good lineout options. I hope Ward continues with the accurate throwing.

As for Robshaw, I never really look at the number on his back!

I do fear Smith will be targeted at some point, although if he continues the way he has been playing then he will definitely earmarked for some heavy treatment. I don't doubt he'll be able to cope though.

I agree that WHite could easily have been picked to start. He's looked pretty good in his few brief appearances so far. He and Merrick could offer some good impact though.

 
Re: Team's Up!
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:19
I expect Smith will get to put his feet up once the Cat is back.

 
Re: Team's Up!
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:20
Gourdon and Vito. Oooerr.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:21
Quote:
Bellyfull
Bit concerned that Smith is being overplayed he is a young man, he needs to be looked after

Agree with this, but I think it's just a case of letting him have a run until Catrakilis is back.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Team's Up!
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:22
Quote:
Cookie
Mightily unimpressed that we're going in to our return in the Champions Cup with an injury reserve lock playing at 6. We absolutely should have signed someone on a 3 month deal until Luke is back.

To be fair even with Wallace's injury we were presumably assuming we could rely on:

Chisholm
Clifford
Bothma
Ward (now having to play hooker due to injuries elsewhere)

to cover in that position.

That doesn't really explain why we aren't looking for someone now though.

 
Re: Team's Up!
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:31
I know Nev said that we were not looking, does that really mean it is true though??

 
Re: Team's Up!
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:35
Quote:
HonkyTonk
I know Nev said that we were not looking, does that really mean it is true though??

I'd say it's a fairly good indication.

Also, going against my own point, many of the back row the injuries we have are all relatively long term and all happened a while ago (Wallace, Bothma and Chis) so you'd have thought we'd have been looking a while ago for some short term cover.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Navyquin (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:38
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
HonkyTonk
I know Nev said that we were not looking, does that really mean it is true though??

I'd say it's a fairly good indication.

Also, going against my own point, many of the back row the injuries we have are all relatively long term and all happened a while ago (Wallace, Bothma and Chis) so you'd have thought we'd have been looking a while ago for some short term cover.

I am sure Western Force have some back rowers who would jump at the chance to provide injury cover and put themselves up for a permanent stay or at least in the shop window.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Safri-quin (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:39
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Cookie
Mightily unimpressed that we're going in to our return in the Champions Cup with an injury reserve lock playing at 6. We absolutely should have signed someone on a 3 month deal until Luke is back.

To be fair even with Wallace's injury we were presumably assuming we could rely on:

Chisholm
Clifford
Bothma
Ward (now having to play hooker due to injuries elsewhere)

to cover in that position.

That doesn't really explain why we aren't looking for someone now though.

Case of dammed if do, or dammed if dont.

Probably slim pickings out there, so someone isn't brought in - Outrage on Come All & Whinge.

Bring in a replacement who isn't a 'big name (Unless we sign a SriLankan...) and guess what...Outrage on Come All & Whinge...

 
Re: Team's Up!
ACQuins (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:42
La Rochelle were the best team in Top 14 last year and really should have won.

They have an absolutely world class number 8 in Victor Vito, who is a former World Cup and Super Rugby winner and (I think) won Top 14 Player of the Year last season in his debut season.

Other than that, I know very little about them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/10/2017 11:44 by ACQuins.

 
Re: Team's Up!
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:48
Quote:
Safri-quin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Cookie
Mightily unimpressed that we're going in to our return in the Champions Cup with an injury reserve lock playing at 6. We absolutely should have signed someone on a 3 month deal until Luke is back.

To be fair even with Wallace's injury we were presumably assuming we could rely on:

Chisholm
Clifford
Bothma
Ward (now having to play hooker due to injuries elsewhere)

to cover in that position.

That doesn't really explain why we aren't looking for someone now though.

Case of dammed if do, or dammed if dont.

Probably slim pickings out there, so someone isn't brought in - Outrage on Come All & Whinge.

Bring in a replacement who isn't a 'big name (Unless we sign a SriLankan...) and guess what...Outrage on Come All & Whinge...

(Sm128)

 
Re: Team's Up!
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 11:56
Had a quick google of their side. To my untrained eye I would say that it is not quite their strongest team (be that due to injuries or rotation I don't know). Wouldn't fancy being a lifter at their line out, the number 5 weighs nearly 22stne!!!

 
Re: Team's Up!
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 12:01
Quote:
ACQuins
La Rochelle were the best team in Top 14 last year and really should have won.
They have an absolutely world class number 8 in Victor Vito, who is a former World Cup and Super Rugby winner and (I think) won Top 14 Player of the Year last season in his debut season.

Other than that, I know very little about them.

I watched Vito play 7s and he was being touted as the next big thing for the ABs. His career seemed short-lived though. Having said that, the ABs are always touting "the next big thing".

Quote:
talkshowhost86
Also, going against my own point, many of the back row the injuries we have are all relatively long term and all happened a while ago (Wallace, Bothma and Chis)

In fairness, Chis was "only" concussion and was expected back long before now.

 
Re: Team's Up!
MrOther (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 12:05
Quote:
Quinky Kin
I do feear Smith will be targeted at some point, although if he continues the way he has been playing then he will definitely earmarked for some heavy treatment. I don't doubt he'll be able to cope though.

Is Jamie Roberts playing a different defensive game to shield Marcus Smith? I read on another thread that that was the case, but haven’t been able to see it myself.

 
Re: Team's Up!
D-Quins (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 12:39
They have a huge front 5. Better made it a quick game we don't want an arm wrestle.


Quins front row 332Kg La Rochelle 381Kg
Quins 2nd row 244Kg La Rochelle 249Kg


Total 576Kg 630Kg

Boy they are big!

D-Quins

 
Re: Team's Up!
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 12:42
I am quite confident for this (Stupid boy). I reckon we will get a 5 pointer here. Fast start will put them under the cosh right away

 
Re: Team's Up!
Cookie (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 12:56
Quote:
MrOther
Quote:
Quinky Kin
I do feear Smith will be targeted at some point, although if he continues the way he has been playing then he will definitely earmarked for some heavy treatment. I don't doubt he'll be able to cope though.

Is Jamie Roberts playing a different defensive game to shield Marcus Smith? I read on another thread that that was the case, but haven’t been able to see it myself.

Roberts made 15 tackles against Northampton to Marcus' 2, so definitely looked after him that day. That said, Marcus made 10 against Sale, but his 12 in those 2 games vs JR/JM's combined 47 would suggest we're trying to keep the heat off him defensively.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Jedzi (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 13:11
I'm no expert ... but at one of our scrums in the first half of the Sale game I noticed Roberts lining-up slightly inside, but close to Smith.

IIRC when the ball came out, Roberts took the ball as first receiver, took a tackle and passed out to Smith who'd moved wider into a bit more space. It looked like something designed to give Smith a little more time and protection.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 13:13
Quote:
MrOther
Quote:
Quinky Kin
I do feear Smith will be targeted at some point, although if he continues the way he has been playing then he will definitely earmarked for some heavy treatment. I don't doubt he'll be able to cope though.

Is Jamie Roberts playing a different defensive game to shield Marcus Smith? I read on another thread that that was the case, but haven’t been able to see it myself.

I did read that. Watching Smith, he doesn't seem shy about getting stuck in though.

 
Re: Team's Up!
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 13:19
Quote:
Safri-quin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Cookie
Mightily unimpressed that we're going in to our return in the Champions Cup with an injury reserve lock playing at 6. We absolutely should have signed someone on a 3 month deal until Luke is back.

To be fair even with Wallace's injury we were presumably assuming we could rely on:

Chisholm
Clifford
Bothma
Ward (now having to play hooker due to injuries elsewhere)

to cover in that position.

That doesn't really explain why we aren't looking for someone now though.

Case of dammed if do, or dammed if dont.

Probably slim pickings out there, so someone isn't brought in - Outrage on Come All & Whinge.

Bring in a replacement who isn't a 'big name (Unless we sign a SriLankan...) and guess what...Outrage on Come All & Whinge...

This would be a fantastically accurate piece of analysis if it wasn't for the fact that one of our main coaches has spoken to someone on this board and said we aren't even looking for cover.

Also I don't think anyone is calling for a big name to come in. Simply for some cover so we don't have our 5th choice lock starting at 6.

But to be fair Come All & Whinge is pretty funny.

 
Re: Team's Up!
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 13:22
Quote:
Quinky Kin
In fairness, Chis was "only" concussion and was expected back long before now.

True so they wouldn't have known that was a long term thing to start with, although it was a fair while ago that they started saying he would be out long term.

I think it's been close to a month now (from Bothma's injury) that we've known all three of him, Wallace and Chis would be out for a while.

With Clifford now out as well, surely we have to be looking for some cover as we're going to really struggle if Glynn is having to play there too often.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 13:56
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
In fairness, Chis was "only" concussion and was expected back long before now.

True so they wouldn't have known that was a long term thing to start with, although it was a fair while ago that they started saying he would be out long term.

I think it's been close to a month now (from Bothma's injury) that we've known all three of him, Wallace and Chis would be out for a while.

With Clifford now out as well, surely we have to be looking for some cover as we're going to really struggle if Glynn is having to play there too often.

One would hope so. I think Chis was always thought to be a short-term recovery, but concussion seems to be causing long lay-offs in more and more cases recently. It's a tough one because it's not a visible injury and it must be almost impossible to assess severity and/or recovery time.

I mentioned on another thread that Ugo suggested that Clifford's injury was a sub-lux, which I believe is not a full dislocation. What impact this has on rehab/recovery times I don't know, but the lack of an announced diagnosis is somewhat unusual I think.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 14:06
#reperconcussions



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Team's Up!
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 14:32
I wonder if they considered putting Wardy at 7 and giving Elia a start at hooker. That would look like a much stronger back-row.

I suppose the issue is that we'd then need hooking cover on the bench which would then be Piper...a big risk for such an inexperienced player.

I'd also question whether it makes sense to play Glynn over White considering one of them is actually a back row and one isn't.

Ah well. We shall see tomorrow I suppose.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Stooperman (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 15:00
Quote:
talkshowhost86
I wonder if they considered putting Wardy at 7 and giving Elia a start at hooker. That would look like a much stronger back-row.
I suppose the issue is that we'd then need hooking cover on the bench which would then be Piper...a big risk for such an inexperienced player.

I'd also question whether it makes sense to play Glynn over White considering one of them is actually a back row and one isn't.

Ah well. We shall see tomorrow I suppose.

I'm wondering if the Glynn selection is to shore up our creaky linout and give us another option there. With courtney Lawes and a couple more examples, it seems to be quite fashionable to play 2nd rows at 6.

I'm starting to like the cut of Luamanu's jib, but he's never going to be a Nick Easter type lineout option,he's too bloomin massive to get off the ground, so I wonder if this is the reason for Glyn. Dunno, just speculation.

Anyway

COYQ, getting quite excited about tomorrow already!

 
Re: Team's Up!
akb1 (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 15:08
Quote:
T-Bone
Why don't we have White or Lamb starting in the back row?
Can only be down to experience I guess, earlier this week Lamb wasn't eligible because he was not listed in our squad for this competition. I have just seen that he is now listed and Wallace has been withdrawn.

Quote:
talkshowhost86
hooking cover on the bench which would then be Piper
Piper isn't named in the squad for the Champions cup.

 
Re: Team's Up!
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 15:22
Quote:
akb1
Piper isn't named in the squad for the Champions cup.

Well that explains that one.

I suppose we can't start Ward at 7 if he's also our backup hooker.

Would that even be allowed actually? Presumably we have to have a hooker on the bench.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 16:26
Quote:
Stooperman
Quote:
talkshowhost86
I wonder if they considered putting Wardy at 7 and giving Elia a start at hooker. That would look like a much stronger back-row.
I suppose the issue is that we'd then need hooking cover on the bench which would then be Piper...a big risk for such an inexperienced player.

I'd also question whether it makes sense to play Glynn over White considering one of them is actually a back row and one isn't.

Ah well. We shall see tomorrow I suppose.

I'm wondering if the Glynn selection is to shore up our creaky linout and give us another option there. With courtney Lawes and a couple more examples, it seems to be quite fashionable to play 2nd rows at 6.

I'm starting to like the cut of Luamanu's jib, but he's never going to be a Nick Easter type lineout option,he's too bloomin massive to get off the ground, so I wonder if this is the reason for Glyn. Dunno, just speculation.


That was my thought regarding Glynn - against a much bigger pack we'll need as much quick ball as possible from the set piece, and that's more likely to come from line-out than scrum.

Big Mat is, as you say, never going to be a Nick Easter at line-out time. More like a Big Mo in the loose these days.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Man from LA (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 17:33
Quote:
Quinky Kin
I do fear Smith will be targeted at some point, although if he continues the way he has been playing then he will definitely earmarked for some heavy treatment. I don't doubt he'll be able to cope though.

He's from Sussex, of course he can cope smiling smiley

 
Re: Team's Up!
Snowman (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 18:19
Quote:
Man from LA
Quote:
Quinky Kin
I do fear Smith will be targeted at some point, although if he continues the way he has been playing then he will definitely earmarked for some heavy treatment. I don't doubt he'll be able to cope though.

He's from Sussex, of course he can cope smiling smiley

+1 oh yes!

 
Re: Team's Up!
QuinAlan (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 18:43
Quote:
I am sure Western Force have some back rowers who would jump at the chance to provide injury cover and put themselves up for a permanent stay or at least in the shop window.

Saw them live 18 months ago & I didnt see anyone who would remotely come into a Quins squad & perform as we would like. I think you can forget that idea.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Mayor West (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 18:48
Is Glynn the injury cover? That might be why we are not/can't look for any more cover.

 
Re: Team's Up!
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 20:12
Quote:
Man from LA
Quote:
Quinky Kin
I do fear Smith will be targeted at some point, although if he continues the way he has been playing then he will definitely earmarked for some heavy treatment. I don't doubt he'll be able to cope though.

He's from Sussex, of course he can cope smiling smiley

Ha ha, yes I'm sure you're right smiling smiley

 
Re: Team's Up!
Camquin (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 20:43
You have to have a spare hooker, but they do not have to be on the bench.
The regulations refer to having players in the squad.
But you need cover so that at the first time of asking you replace the hooker or either prop.

I have seen sides do this at lower levels where there are only five replacements and you only have two spare front row players.

I am not entirely sure what happens if you start your spare hooker in the back row and they get injured before the hooker does.

 
Re: Team's Up!
ChequeredJersey2 (IP Logged)
13 October, 2017 21:41
Quote:
QuinAlan
Quote:
I am sure Western Force have some back rowers who would jump at the chance to provide injury cover and put themselves up for a permanent stay or at least in the shop window.

Saw them live 18 months ago & I didnt see anyone who would remotely come into a Quins squad & perform as we would like. I think you can forget that idea.

Can't agree with that. By far the best Aussie team last season, with backrow including at least Hodgson and McCallman, they'd easily be good enough

 
Re: Team's Up!
MrOther (IP Logged)
14 October, 2017 12:02
Quote:
WellingQuin
Le XV de départ
7. Zeno KIEFT

Quote:
Fearless Fred
Harlequins (Harlequins appearances)
11. Tim Visser (39)

Two Dutchmen (the only two Dutchmen playing professional rugby) on the field together.

Very niche interest, I know, but it's getting some coverage in the Dutch media and highlights of today's game will be aired this evening by the Dutch public broadcaster, NOS. That this is all happening at the (Adrian Dura) Stoop (Memorial Ground) is not mentioned.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/10/2017 13:29 by MrOther.


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