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Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
West Stand Quin (IP Logged)
14 October, 2017 22:31
An entertaining game and La Rochelle are a good side. Quins also offered a lot in attack but feel defensive organisation is still severely lacking. That being said there are many one on one tackles being missed which should be being made.

I have been very impressed with Marler and Collierís scrummaging as felt the bulk La Rochelle might be an issue. Really pleased to see the improvement in Marlers carrying as heís much more direct rather than running outside arcs. Collier offers more also in attack than previously but havenít seen him as a strong defensive presence like some tight heads are. Scrumaging is outstanding though.

Dave Ward continues to hit good lines and the line out has improved. He still struggles on the big throws and it was tactically naive from Horwill not to take the 3 points with 90 secs to go before 1/2 time. No turnovers today but a solid game.

Charlie Matthews had a good game, with good support lines and effective offload works. Still worries me when he stands at first receiver but used much more effectively as a dummy runner than previously. Horwill offers carrying ballast but too often is static when really receiving the ball. Calls all the line out to himself (which he is good at) but makes Quins predictable.

Glynn played well out of position but will never be a world beater. However was responsible for at least one turnover and carried effectively. Having a 2nd row option in the back row for line outs and never using him is a missed opportunity. Luamanu I felt was disappointing - didnít make great yardage and a shame he didnít make offensive tackles on their big carriers.
Robshaw works incredibly hard and was very involved. Felt he actually had a poor game by his high standards as he missed some tackles and got caught in possession. Think it showed he is a 6 rather than a 7 (when he was a bit younger he was an outstanding 7 despite what the press said) but quick 8 pick up form scrums expose lack of pace.

Set piece scrum against huge pack was fantastic so big kudos to front 5.

Long enough post to not cover the backs. Jamie Roberts best game for Quins?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 15/10/2017 05:50 by West Stand Quin.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
RleQuin (IP Logged)
14 October, 2017 23:05
The problem is no matter how well some played, we still lost.
Too many of our so called stars make stupid mistakes time and time again (Care's kick that led to one of their tries and Brown's kick direct to touch to name two) and try scoring chances are butchered.
Unfortunately, professional sport is about winning games - the squad and coaches need to get this into their heads.
Smith looks good but he is just a kid in his first season, Roberts had some good moments but also made terrible mistakes. Visser and Yarde didn't do too much although Yarde hardly touched the ball all night. Marchant blew hot and cold. Saili made his long awaited debut and had some good touches but it didn't take him long to fall into the bad habits!
RleQ

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
15 October, 2017 01:05
Great analysis on a late night thread. This season the attack is so much better but the defense isn't improving. It promises much more than last, if only because Smiths potential looks sky high, it's a pleasure to see him play.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
QuickerQuin (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 04:27
Agree with WSQ.

I thought La Rochelle's defence was tremendous.

We spilt the ball too many times. Why? It wasn't wet, or cold?

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 08:00
Quote:
RleQuin
Smith looks good but he is just a kid in his first season,
RleQ

Not quite sure what point you're making here. He won't be as good when he's older? He only looks good because he's young?

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
DOK (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 07:52
Smith looks good because he is good.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
TitusQuin (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 08:50
And our attack is better because of Marcus Smith. The kid is an exceptional talent.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 09:04
Quote:
QuickerQuin
Agree with WSQ.
I thought La Rochelle's defence was tremendous.

We spilt the ball too many times. Why? It wasn't wet, or cold?

This was the most disappointing thing.

We did so much good work but some really poor errors let us down.

It does seem to happen a fair bit to us as well so I think questions do have to be asked on that front.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
SiBolton (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 08:54
Had a read in the Wasps board last night, interesting that they say we have adapted to the new rules better than them and looked good in attack
So we played a side that where for the best part of last season top of their league
They had very few of their first choice missing, we secured a bonus point and currently sit 3rd in pool 1, yes a win would obviously be what we all wanted, but its not over yet ( although don't think we will go any further in cup)
Will go to the Atmosphere Hoover next weekend and cheer the team on and hopefully get a result.
fix the defensive issues and we really will be a team to reckon with, until then we won't be.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 08:58
La Rochelle's defence was tight, but in the "red zone", we were too predictable (as were restarts). Too many missed tackles. For two or three short (~ 5 minute) intervals we lost shape/organisation and handed oppo tries. Too many passes going behind receives, causing them to check and lose momentum. A few mis-passes too.

Was impressed with set piece forward game, Smiths distribution and touch finding (well all his kicking really - it's a real weapon), Matthews and the fact that they rightly went for the BP at the end rather than fail to get a try.

Did they award MoM to the Rochelle centre?

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
Jus-Quin-Time (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 09:42
I enjoyed last nights game and then this morning I put down two simple observations regarding our attacking naivetť.

I have since watched the game on TV and on reflection decided to delete my post. My comments simply didn't stack up to scrutiny and were obviously based on an unreliable memory.

I don't think the beer helped much either but no harm done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/10/2017 14:36 by Jus-Quin-Time.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 10:19
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
RleQuin
Smith looks good but he is just a kid in his first season,
RleQ

Not quite sure what point you're making here. He won't be as good when he's older? He only looks good because he's young?

Horwill played very well, but he's quite old and in his third season with us.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
miami mike (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 10:34
I just finished watching the match as I was working last night. Really suprised at the negativity here. fantastic match between 2 good sides that the visitors won by being just that bit more accuarate under pressure.Glynn has a future as our backup 6 and occasional 2nd row. front row immense. Backs superb all night. Marchant starting to look international class and Roberts rolling back the years. Mistakes yes. no side goes 80 mins without errors. La Roch certainly made a few. The only glaring one for me was the 4th try when 9 and 10 disconected to allow Lamb a clean break. The other defensive errors were mainly forced by massive pressure from the visitors.
Saw a post on the live thread heavily critisising Dave Lewis? He was fine. Never missed a pass in the while 10 minutes be was on the pitch.
Finally chapeau to the winners. A lot of Exeter with a bit of Sarries with some French bulk and flair in the right places. No disgrace in losing that one.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
RleQuin (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 11:51
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
RleQuin
Smith looks good but he is just a kid in his first season,
RleQ

Not quite sure what point you're making here. He won't be as good when he's older? He only looks good because he's young?

The point I'm making is that he isn't the finished article by any stretch and he will make mistakes. I hope he becomes a world class 10 but there's a long way to go.

RleQ

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 13:44
Robshaw missed one tackle, that's all.

Ward missed 3. He's been missing heaps this season.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
16 October, 2017 01:09
Jeezzz have you seen how those Heaps can side step?



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
Fanski (IP Logged)
16 October, 2017 10:34
Defence was s++t as ever

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
Chuckquin (IP Logged)
16 October, 2017 12:13
We seem to be continuing our theme of recent seasons which is that our opposition usually does not have to work too hard for their scores.
This says to me our defence is not up to the job.
I have no idea if this is a system or attitude problem, probably a bit of both but it needs sorting as I am sick of watching other teams walk through holes for easy points.
With a slightly better defence who knows how the Leicester, Saints and La Roch results would have looked. It is very frustrating as it feels as if several oppo scores in these games were gifted to them.
While Mighty is a Quins legend at No.8 what is the verdict as defence coach?

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
Chuckquin (IP Logged)
16 October, 2017 13:54
Minty not "Mighty" above, but sure you knew who I meant.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
16 October, 2017 14:31
Quote:
Chuckquin
We seem to be continuing our theme of recent seasons which is that our opposition usually does not have to work too hard for their scores.
This says to me our defence is not up to the job.
I have no idea if this is a system or attitude problem, probably a bit of both but it needs sorting as I am sick of watching other teams walk through holes for easy points.
With a slightly better defence who knows how the Leicester, Saints and La Roch results would have looked. It is very frustrating as it feels as if several oppo scores in these games were gifted to them.
While Mighty is a Quins legend at No.8 what is the verdict as defence coach?

Overall the defence doesn't seem to have got any better since Minty took over as defence coach.

I'd say that he's now had enough time to implement whatever it is he's trying to implement, but we're not really seeing any benefit from that at the moment.

Obviously we don't know who is making the ultimate decisions as to what we're trying to achieve defensively, so I'm reluctant to blame one person, but whatever we're doing at the moment isn't working at all on the defensive front.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
16 October, 2017 23:15
WE are set up to attack. You score 3 we'll score 4



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
17 October, 2017 07:53
Quote:
Scaramouche
WE are set up to attack. You score 3 we'll score 4

I don't think we are set up that way really.

There's no real reason why our style of attack should really have a massive impact on the defence, other than when something hugely ambitious leads to an intercept etc.

We just don't seem to react well to not having the ball, and then there are some very basic tackles being missed which isn't really acceptable whichever way you look at it.

I think the injuries are a factor here as presumably it's hard to get a consistent defensive system going if you have different personnel each week, but having said that other teams seem to manage it.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
T-Bone (IP Logged)
17 October, 2017 08:39
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Scaramouche
WE are set up to attack. You score 3 we'll score 4

I don't think we are set up that way really.

There's no real reason why our style of attack should really have a massive impact on the defence, other than when something hugely ambitious leads to an intercept etc.

We just don't seem to react well to not having the ball, and then there are some very basic tackles being missed which isn't really acceptable whichever way you look at it.

I think the injuries are a factor here as presumably it's hard to get a consistent defensive system going if you have different personnel each week, but having said that other teams seem to manage it.

This was what JK said after the Sale win, that it's easier to cope with lots of injuries in attack than it is in defence. I'm sure that is true to an extent, but we've still had continuity in some key positions, such as midfield. Also, presumably most of the defensive coaching is done in pre-season, so whole squad should know what the systems are, even if they're not regular starters. I guess some of it comes down to not playing enough next to the bloke next to you to trust him to make the tackle

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
17 October, 2017 13:51
Quote:
Chuckquin
Minty not "Mighty" above, but sure you knew who I meant.

We'd have known even earlier if you had just edited...

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
17 October, 2017 13:55
Wasn't it Minty who was complaining last season that some players are simply not interested in defending? Around the same time he said that evryone who posts on rugby forums is a ****?

I thouhgt we were meant to be offloading the lazy ones - are we still waiting til next season before we have the right team? I don't remember seeing players dropped for their lathargic defence, surely that should be happening if people still arnt' trying? Otherwsie Nick's had over a year to sort it out, and we are still shipping tries all over the place.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
17 October, 2017 14:50
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Wasn't it Minty who was complaining last season that some players are simply not interested in defending? Around the same time he said that evryone who posts on rugby forums is a ****?
I thouhgt we were meant to be offloading the lazy ones - are we still waiting til next season before we have the right team? I don't remember seeing players dropped for their lathargic defence, surely that should be happening if people still arnt' trying? Otherwsie Nick's had over a year to sort it out, and we are still shipping tries all over the place.

Good lunch Rodders?



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
TitusQuin (IP Logged)
17 October, 2017 14:54
Judging on my encounter last week it seems those same players are still not interested.

I asked Nick for an autograph form son after the Sale game and he wasn't in a good mood. I said something like 'That's more like it' and he put me in my place bemoaning the sloppy tries conceded. After i agreed to keep him happy he said along the lines of 'if there isn't the ultimate consequence then why would they defend well if it isn't what they like doing'.

Our defence has been poor for a number of seasons now and I think we are just returning to the same old Quins of the past. i.e. mediocrity.

I disagree that it is easier to attack than defend with injuries. Why do coaches and players talk about cohesion between players/playmakers in attack if it isn't important. Defence is all about attitude and it isn't right at the moment.

It is also about the quality of players don't forget. If we had Farrell,Itoje,Brits just for 3 our team would be transformed both in attack and defence

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
MrOther (IP Logged)
17 October, 2017 15:12
Quote:
Scaramouche
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Wasn't it Minty who was complaining last season that some players are simply not interested in defending? Around the same time he said that evryone who posts on rugby forums is a ****?
I thouhgt we were meant to be offloading the lazy ones - are we still waiting til next season before we have the right team? I don't remember seeing players dropped for their lathargic defence, surely that should be happening if people still arnt' trying? Otherwsie Nick's had over a year to sort it out, and we are still shipping tries all over the place.

Good lunch Rodders?

This board doesnít often have me laughing out loud, but this was an exception! Thx.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
MrOther (IP Logged)
17 October, 2017 15:24
Quote:
TitusQuin
.. it seems those same players are still not interested.
I asked Nick for an autograph ... he said [something] along the lines of 'if there isn't the ultimate consequence then why would they defend well if it isn't what they like doingí

Did you have the idea that he meant that if players donít get dropped for poor defending itíll never change, or am I reading that into it?

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
17 October, 2017 15:33
Quote:
Scaramouche
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Wasn't it Minty who was complaining last season that some players are simply not interested in defending? Around the same time he said that evryone who posts on rugby forums is a ****?
I thouhgt we were meant to be offloading the lazy ones - are we still waiting til next season before we have the right team? I don't remember seeing players dropped for their lathargic defence, surely that should be happening if people still arnt' trying? Otherwsie Nick's had over a year to sort it out, and we are still shipping tries all over the place.

Good lunch Rodders?

(Sm42)

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
17 October, 2017 15:34
Quote:
MrOther
Quote:
TitusQuin
.. it seems those same players are still not interested.
I asked Nick for an autograph ... he said [something] along the lines of 'if there isn't the ultimate consequence then why would they defend well if it isn't what they like doingí

Did you have the idea that he meant that if players donít get dropped for poor defending itíll never change, or am I reading that into it?

Can't see any other explanation. Unless by "ultimate" he means he is calling for capital punishment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 17/10/2017 15:34 by RodneyRegis.

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
17 October, 2017 15:37
Quote:
TitusQuin
Judging on my encounter last week it seems those same players are still not interested.
I asked Nick for an autograph form son after the Sale game and he wasn't in a good mood. I said something like 'That's more like it' and he put me in my place bemoaning the sloppy tries conceded. After i agreed to keep him happy he said along the lines of 'if there isn't the ultimate consequence then why would they defend well if it isn't what they like doing'.

Our defence has been poor for a number of seasons now and I think we are just returning to the same old Quins of the past. i.e. mediocrity.

I disagree that it is easier to attack than defend with injuries. Why do coaches and players talk about cohesion between players/playmakers in attack if it isn't important. Defence is all about attitude and it isn't right at the moment.

It is also about the quality of players don't forget. If we had Farrell,Itoje,Brits just for 3 our team would be transformed both in attack and defence

Farrell, Itoje and Brits have the attitude because of the culture at Sarries. Doubtless if they were used to the Quins culture they wouldn't perform so well. Likewise if our players were at Sarries they wouldn't get away with a lack of effort in defence. What's more fun, tackling or Infernos?

 
Re: Thoughts on La Rochelle (home)
DOK (IP Logged)
17 October, 2017 17:47
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Wasn't it Minty who was complaining last season that some players are simply not interested in defending? Around the same time he said that evryone who posts on rugby forums is a ****?
I thouhgt we were meant to be offloading the lazy ones - are we still waiting til next season before we have the right team? I don't remember seeing players dropped for their lathargic defence, surely that should be happening if people still arnt' trying? Otherwsie Nick's had over a year to sort it out, and we are still shipping tries all over the place.

Think it worked like this...
Last season JK had no control over players, and had to make do with what COS left him.
This season (assuming most players are on 2 year contracts) he could offload some of the dead wood.
Next season he can offload the rest of the dead wood.

I think it's a trust thing with the players. You have to trust the man inside you to make his tackle while you cover the outside man. If you suddenly think the man inside has messed up, then you go for the man on the inside, he passes to his man on the outside and bingo! Another try! That's a lesson Marland Yarde has learned the hard way, but he's much better defensively now.


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