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Sarries the benchmark
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
18 October, 2017 08:03
Watched the Saints v Sarries game and so impressed with their accuracy, team spirit and all round game.

I like others on this board criticised their style a few years ago but they have added so much to that suffocating negative approach.

Quins just donít have the individuals with the skill levels and discipline to compete with this level of performance on a regular basis.

I know we have had some great results against them and other top teams and in those games we clicked as a team and the fans had glimpses of what could be achieved but we canít maintain this level consistency.

Some will shout me down with that is not the Quins style but Iíd love us to play to our max quality more often.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
18 October, 2017 10:34
Agreed ! Bloody irritating isn't it?



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
18 October, 2017 10:52
Quote:
Kent Fan
Watched the Saints v Sarries game and so impressed with their accuracy, team spirit and all round game.
I like others on this board criticised their style a few years ago but they have added so much to that suffocating negative approach.

Quins just donít have the individuals with the skill levels and discipline to compete with this level of performance on a regular basis.

I know we have had some great results against them and other top teams and in those games we clicked as a team and the fans had glimpses of what could be achieved but we canít maintain this level consistency.

Some will shout me down with that is not the Quins style but Iíd love us to play to our max quality more often.

The thing is I think we DO have individuals who have very good natural skill levels.

In terms of pure rugby ability, I don't think we're that far behind Saracens at all.

However they seem to get so much more out of their players than we do, both individually and as a team.

I think that's why so many people have been frustrated with our coaching setup in the last few years. We have so many good players but they just don't appear to be being coached in any sort of coherent way as a squad (as discussed in relation to the defence recently ad nauseum) and don't appear to improve much individually under our coaches.

Lots of people will point to money differential between the clubs, but whereas I think you can look at Leicester and Wasps as examples of teams who just try and recruit their way out of any issues, you only have to look at Sarries, and indeed Exeter, to see what can be achieved with a good coaching set up and team spirit.

I genuinely don't believe we have either at the moment, even though we do have a good set of players, which is why I understand why so many people get frustrated.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
18 October, 2017 11:18
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Kent Fan
Watched the Saints v Sarries game and so impressed with their accuracy, team spirit and all round game.
I like others on this board criticised their style a few years ago but they have added so much to that suffocating negative approach.

Quins just donít have the individuals with the skill levels and discipline to compete with this level of performance on a regular basis.

I know we have had some great results against them and other top teams and in those games we clicked as a team and the fans had glimpses of what could be achieved but we canít maintain this level consistency.

Some will shout me down with that is not the Quins style but Iíd love us to play to our max quality more often.

The thing is I think we DO have individuals who have very good natural skill levels.

In terms of pure rugby ability, I don't think we're that far behind Saracens at all.

However they seem to get so much more out of their players than we do, both individually and as a team.

I think that's why so many people have been frustrated with our coaching setup in the last few years. We have so many good players but they just don't appear to be being coached in any sort of coherent way as a squad (as discussed in relation to the defence recently ad nauseum) and don't appear to improve much individually under our coaches.

Lots of people will point to money differential between the clubs, but whereas I think you can look at Leicester and Wasps as examples of teams who just try and recruit their way out of any issues, you only have to look at Sarries, and indeed Exeter, to see what can be achieved with a good coaching set up and team spirit.

I genuinely don't believe we have either at the moment, even though we do have a good set of players, which is why I understand why so many people get frustrated.


Agree with that mostly but if we have good players with skills surely its largely the coaches who have spotted them and brought them in or up through the academy so is it just down to coaching that we lose games?



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
18 October, 2017 11:41
IMHO coaches can only do so much but execution on the pitch during games is also relevant.....and this responsibility falls on the players and leaders in the team.

Interesting to see Bismarck Du Plessis in the face of his winger to ďemphasiseĒ his defensive responsibilities to the Racing team.

James Horwill seems a better candidate to adopt this approach rather than DC & Joe M the recent incumbents.

Sarries appear to be extremely close with the resultant edge to their individual performance and desire not to let others down.

Some of the Quins squad collective responsibility that was in evidence in the past e.g. when Tom Williams was playing has gone. This could be rekindled by the coaches and management but only by pulling the players who now have families etc into a different environment.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
oakhaven (IP Logged)
18 October, 2017 12:13
The current incarnation of our side reminds me a fair amount of the side that was playing when I first starting going regularly to Quins matches in about '01-'02. Bags of individual talent (Wood, Leonard, Greenwood, Greenstock, O'Leary etc.) but never enough cohesion to turn that talent into victories. The Deano/early Conor-era ethos that had been instilled, where we were so much more than the sum of our parts, seems to have slipped away in recent times and we're back to being an unreliable side with the occasional flashes of brilliance.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Stooperman (IP Logged)
18 October, 2017 12:35
I would also say that our coaches bear some responsibility for our appaling discipline record.

Sarries are again the benchmark, they operate close to or beyond the bounds of the laws consistently but don't get pinged. We are constantly giving away sill penalties.

It has to be down to a combination of the coaches ensuring that in training our players are constantly reminded of what referees are looking at this year, and how close to the edge of the law we can play in various situations. On the field it is the responsibility of the players to see how that particular ref is interpreting the law, and adjust accordingly.

We seem to be particularly at fault around the tackle area at the moment. This may be partly down to the fact that our only specialist 7 (why would you go into a season with only one 7????) is out of action, but it seems to be a shared malaise rather than the fault of Dave Ward or Ben Glynn.

COS had a session with Wayne Barnes and the squad a few years ago when we were consistently falling foul of refs. Might be time for another day with a top referee to see where we are going wrong.

It seems to me an area that can and should be easily fixed with a little thought and application from the coaches.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
18 October, 2017 14:51
Quote:
Scaramouche
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Kent Fan
Watched the Saints v Sarries game and so impressed with their accuracy, team spirit and all round game.
I like others on this board criticised their style a few years ago but they have added so much to that suffocating negative approach.

Quins just donít have the individuals with the skill levels and discipline to compete with this level of performance on a regular basis.

I know we have had some great results against them and other top teams and in those games we clicked as a team and the fans had glimpses of what could be achieved but we canít maintain this level consistency.

Some will shout me down with that is not the Quins style but Iíd love us to play to our max quality more often.

The thing is I think we DO have individuals who have very good natural skill levels.

In terms of pure rugby ability, I don't think we're that far behind Saracens at all.

However they seem to get so much more out of their players than we do, both individually and as a team.

I think that's why so many people have been frustrated with our coaching setup in the last few years. We have so many good players but they just don't appear to be being coached in any sort of coherent way as a squad (as discussed in relation to the defence recently ad nauseum) and don't appear to improve much individually under our coaches.

Lots of people will point to money differential between the clubs, but whereas I think you can look at Leicester and Wasps as examples of teams who just try and recruit their way out of any issues, you only have to look at Sarries, and indeed Exeter, to see what can be achieved with a good coaching set up and team spirit.

I genuinely don't believe we have either at the moment, even though we do have a good set of players, which is why I understand why so many people get frustrated.


Agree with that mostly but if we have good players with skills surely its largely the coaches who have spotted them and brought them in or up through the academy so is it just down to coaching that we lose games?

Yep this is a very good point. Obviously a certain amount of natural talent plays its part, but there are obviously some decent coaches at the club spotting young talent and bringing it through the academy, with Smith being the most recent example.

But maybe there's a gap in then being able to get those players to step up a level into the Premiership and Europe, in the same way that when we bring in established players, we rarely seem to see them go up a level when they get to Quins.

Generally though our issues are with the collective rather than the individuals. Which is where I would see Saracens or Exeter as the benchmark.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Stoopendous (IP Logged)
18 October, 2017 15:33
Quote:
Kent Fan
coaches can only do so much but execution on the pitch during games is also relevant.....
I agree that the coaches may have underperformed, but maybe this takes admonishment a little too far.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
18 October, 2017 16:51
You know that they have been dominant for some time now? The original post reads like someone who hasn't seen them play for a good few years...

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Man from LA (IP Logged)
18 October, 2017 21:14
Quote:
Adi Nako
You know that they have been dominant for some time now? The original post reads like someone who hasn't seen them play for a good few years...

Many people in the media, players past and present, and fans from the majority of top-flight clubs think that may be more to do with other reasons though...

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
18 October, 2017 21:32
Cheating the salary cap just doesn't stand up as a valid reason for dominating Europe when you look at how many internationals the Irish provinces have in their sides, nor when you compare our cap to the French cap.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Eric Browett (IP Logged)
19 October, 2017 05:57
Rugby, like life, is cyclical. At the moment as a long term Sarries supporter I'm enjoying our success (while pinching myself at the same time). It's based around team ethos, structure and excellent coaching, but mainly a freakish academy output that has given us a phenomenal pack....plus Owen!

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
19 October, 2017 10:01
I agree with Eric, it is down to having excellent coaches and currently the best academy in England in terms of producing talent.

We are now producing one or two top quality talents every year at Sarries, Isiekwe and Malins being the latest example, Isiekwe has already played for England and just continues to get better and better.

It also helps that everyone knows what their role is and the fact that the senior academy trains with the senior squad helps with a seamless integration. I think it also helps that the best players in our team came from the academy or came to our club very young like Mako at 19 and Billy at 20 being examples, this means the players get to come through together and have very close bonds.

Also this off season, the sarries coaches went to NZ to try and look at broadening our attacking game, we had the best defensive record in the league by a long way last year but we did not score as many tries as wasps and exeter and i think that cost us a league title last year and the coaches wanted to find ways to broaden the attack to rectify that.

The coaches are constantly pushing themselves to be better and i think that feeds down to the players as well

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
19 October, 2017 11:15
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
I agree with Eric, it is down to having excellent coaches and currently the best academy in England in terms of producing talent.
We are now producing one or two top quality talents every year at Sarries, Isiekwe and Malins being the latest example, Isiekwe has already played for England and just continues to get better and better.

It also helps that everyone knows what their role is and the fact that the senior academy trains with the senior squad helps with a seamless integration. I think it also helps that the best players in our team came from the academy or came to our club very young like Mako at 19 and Billy at 20 being examples, this means the players get to come through together and have very close bonds.

Also this off season, the sarries coaches went to NZ to try and look at broadening our attacking game, we had the best defensive record in the league by a long way last year but we did not score as many tries as wasps and exeter and i think that cost us a league title last year and the coaches wanted to find ways to broaden the attack to rectify that.

The coaches are constantly pushing themselves to be better and i think that feeds down to the players as well

I don' think anyone disagrees with this assessment these days.

I think even the most stubborn of Sarries fans will concede there were some financial issues to start with, but that doesn't explain the success in the last few years.

Sarries are well coached, well drilled, have an eye for a good player (often not household names) and seem to have an ethos that goes from top to bottom.

Whilst there will always be a tinge of bitterness for how it all started, I can't help but cast my eyes towards Sarries in a very envious way these days.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
19 October, 2017 12:00
Sarries v Exeter in the final...who do you support?



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Re: Sarries the benchmark
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
19 October, 2017 14:10
Quote:
Scaramouche
Sarries v Exeter in the final...who do you support?

Personally?

Exeter.

They have all of the brilliant team ethos and ability to get the best out of players without the darker elements of how Sarries got to where they are.

But if it was anything like as brilliant as the semi-final last season I'd probably just be cheering whoever had the ball.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
19 October, 2017 19:16
Quote:
Scaramouche
Sarries v Exeter in the final...who do you support?

Quins.



BB

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 00:55
oh BB I am sensing a little hostility my friend.



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Cookie (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 09:43
I find it impossible to be envious of a club that runs itself so financially appallingly. Whilst I would like to win trophies, I wouldn't want to sell my soul to make that happen.

I unsubscribed from the Goode/Hamilton podcast because I got sick fed up of hearing about all the freebies and junkets the Sarries players enjoyed. Private planes, holidays etc simply aren't part of modern day club rugby and anyone doing that is cheating themselves.

Their stadium is dreadful. Their pitch is dreadful. Their bank balance is dreadful.

As someone said at the start, these things are cyclical and I for one can't wait for the sugar daddy to get bored. In the meantime I will begrudgingly respect their achievements, but don't ask me to be jealous as what they represent simply doesn't correlate with the state of club rugby overall.

And as for who to support in the final......simple. Whoever Sarries are playing (assuming they're there).

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 10:24
I wasnt saying we need to go down the Sarries route with all the attendant financial stuff but I donít see why as individuals and as a collective our match day / under pressure skill levels canít be improved.

That canít all be about coaching. Look at Wasps this season compared to last....as they have lost a couple of skilful SH players the attacking fire is not as evident although same coaches are there. Plus maybe some players are getting too long in the tooth etc.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 10:35
Going back to the Sarries money thing, my old coach used to say wisely that it doesnt matter how much money a club has they can only put 15 players on the park and that if you do your job to the best of your ability they are only human.

Is the disparagement of Sarries for having a wealthy backer just envy of the nouveau riche or is it a healthy dislike for tilting the field slightly?

Whither Saracens when young Jackson reaches the end of his career?



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 11:08
Quote:
Scaramouche
Going back to the Sarries money thing, my old coach used to say wisely that it doesnt matter how much money a club has they can only put 15 players on the park and that if you do your job to the best of your ability they are only human.
Is the disparagement of Sarries for having a wealthy backer just envy of the nouveau riche or is it a healthy dislike for tilting the field slightly?

Whither Saracens when young Jackson reaches the end of his career?

Your old coach is right about the 15 on the pitch, but if the other team have tilted the financial equality to the extent that they can then bring on another 8 internationals at any stage, and cover all injuries with players of similar quality, I think that's where people get annoyed.

But I think it's equally possible to chastise Sarries on the financial side whilst recognising that on the rugby side they do things considerably better than we do.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 11:16
Watch most SH games and all 15 seem to be able to understand the need to support the ball carrier, be able to know when to pass or off load, how to pass and how to collect a pass. Also when there is a turnover they all seem to know instinctively to react, fan out, get into formation etc.

Last week the number of times our guys went forward individually or took the ball standing still was depressing. This type of adjustment in alignment and general support play should be instinctive to even the youngest player....and it is to Marcus Smith who is the youngest.

We didnít spread their defence when we were attacking. The maul was mostly unsussessful close to the line. Surely these are drilled into the squad by Graham Roundtree and Adam Jones. Going back to Sarries and Exeter their rolling mauls score on most occasions.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
D-Quins (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 13:51
Hi

Sarries play an effective game of rugby, I recognize they are trying to expands this game plan, this may be why they have lost more than normal this year. Toulon are similar efficient but not exciting. Clermont however I would pay to watch any day.


For me wining is important but would I rather watch a Quins or Clermont rather than Sarries or Toulon. Yes I do like my team to win, I have been there for the dark days at Quins, I have my name on the board behind the stand to show it. I loved 2012 where we played some flowing pacey rugby and outscored others, we still leaked tries just not as many as normal.

Yes on a wet January day winning 3 - 0 I will take but if that is what you aim for then I would be very disappointed and I suspect our attendance would suffer.

So for me Sarries have some good things team ethics and togetherness but coaching no, it is just following the Ventor limited game plan.


Other entertaining teams I would happily watch

Exeter
Gloucester - when they actually turn up, they can be very good.
Wasps - based on last years approach
Newcastle - playing better every year and will be a force in a few years under Dean Richards ( I know a swear word to some but still a great manager if flawed)

So you can see I am not one eyed and only see Quins as the team, just for me Sarries are not the bench mark. I now expect AB to say I am wrong!


D-Quins

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 14:08
Quote:
So for me Sarries have some good things team ethics and togetherness but coaching no, it is just following the Ventor limited game plan.

That hasn't been the case for a few years. They play a great all round game and score lots of pretty entertaining tries. I can only assume you've be in hibernation for a long time.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 14:10
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Quote:
So for me Sarries have some good things team ethics and togetherness but coaching no, it is just following the Ventor limited game plan.

That hasn't been the case for a few years. They play a great all round game and score lots of pretty entertaining tries. I can only assume you've be in hibernation for a long time.

To be fair they are still conservative compared to other teams in the league (they scored a lot fewer tries than Wasps and Exeter last year, and were at least 10 down on the teams behind them when they won the double).

But yeah it's a tired old criticism of Sarries from about 5 years ago. They are a much more expansive team now and play some very good rugby both in attach and in defence.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
RobB (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 14:15
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Quote:
Sarries play an effective game of rugby, I recognize they are trying to expands this game plan, this may be why they have lost more than normal this year. Toulon are similar efficient but not exciting. Clermont however I would pay to watch any day.
So for me Sarries have some good things team ethics and togetherness but coaching no, it is just following the Ventor limited game plan.

That hasn't been the case for a few years. They play a great all round game and score lots of pretty entertaining tries. I can only assume you've be in hibernation for a long time.

Indeed - One loss this year (Bath away, 2nd game) - more than normal? Question this remark.

I think you are correct QP - Somebody is stuck in 2013.

I'll send my teleporter (Sm132)

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 14:19
Well yes, I'm not saying they're the Harlem Globetrotters of the Premiership, but remember we only scored 53 tries when we won the regular season in 2011/12 and people reminisce about the great rugby we played. Last time Sarries scored fewer than 60 was 5 seasons ago. I haven't looked at their European record but I bet it's similar. Anyway, I think we're broadly in agreement.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
PQ2 (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 14:26
-But I've heard the Harlem Globetrotters are useless at Rugby Union...Which begs the question, what are Saracens like at basketball?

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 14:33
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Well yes, I'm not saying they're the Harlem Globetrotters of the Premiership, but remember we only scored 53 tries when we won the regular season in 2011/12 and people reminisce about the great rugby we played. Last time Sarries scored fewer than 60 was 5 seasons ago. I haven't looked at their European record but I bet it's similar. Anyway, I think we're broadly in agreement.

Exactly.

Considering they've scored 39 tries more than us in the last three seasons in the league (albeit a lot of those from 2014/15) I'm not sure we're in a position to criticise them for lack of creativity.

Incidentally, they only conceded 28 tries in the league last season. Considering they lost 5 games in that period that really is an impressive statistic.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
1876-Fez (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 16:38
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Well yes, I'm not saying they're the Harlem Globetrotters of the Premiership, but remember we only scored 53 tries when we won the regular season in 2011/12 and people reminisce about the great rugby we played. Last time Sarries scored fewer than 60 was 5 seasons ago. I haven't looked at their European record but I bet it's similar. Anyway, I think we're broadly in agreement.

Nice stat QP.... I'll store that one away for future use (Sm100)

D-Quins as others have stated we are well beyond the "Limited Game" of BV.. If you could stomach it, watch our games against Saints (x2) and Wasps this season to see what I mean.

We are "up there" at the moment but as in all things it will change and other teams will be "up there" so I'll enjoy it whilst it lasts.

Good luck against Wasps this weekend, would like to see you win and also in the AP but obviously not against us!!



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Re: Sarries the benchmark
D-Quins (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 19:30
Firstly I said effective, that does not mean it does not score tries, just it is as it says effective just not to me attractive to watch.

Yes I have watched Sarries recently, I watched everyone of the premiership games last year bar one, my sportsnet streaming service corrupted that one.

Other may find this enjoyable to watch but not me.

There are many things to admire about Sarries fitness, organisation and their kick chase. To me it is the way they approach a game I don't find entertaining.

If others do I am sure they will be filling their stadium more often and good luck to them if they do

Regards


D-Quins

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 20:33
Well I didn't know Sportsnet streamed in braille. (Sm100)

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
RleQuin (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 21:29
Quote:
Cookie
I find it impossible to be envious of a club that runs itself so financially appallingly. Whilst I would like to win trophies, I wouldn't want to sell my soul to make that happen.

We have a sugar daddy and our finances are dire as well but on the pitch there is no comparison. They got away with cheating didn't they and it does make me laugh that it has all been forgotten and it is all down to an incredible academy product.
Everyone knows that is rubbish but they got away with it whereas we didn't.
RleQ

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Man from LA (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 22:03
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Cheating the salary cap just doesn't stand up as a valid reason for dominating Europe when you look at how many internationals the Irish provinces have in their sides, nor when you compare our cap to the French cap.

It's a perfectly valid reason, if an English club has been/was cheating the salary cap then their budget would be much nearer to parity with the French cap, hence they would have a better chance as their bench would be stronger and they could entice a better standard of player. It wouldn't guarantee you a European Cup but it would make the chances of success much greater. It would also make the chances of winning an AP much greater if all of the other English clubs adhered to the rules.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
20 October, 2017 22:36
I think you're over-egging it. The biggest advantage would be in the prem, yes, but I'm sure the French cap was close to Ä10m when Sarries were supposedly spending around a million above the £4.5m (?) cap.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
1876-Fez (IP Logged)
21 October, 2017 08:44
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Well I didn't know Sportsnet streamed in braille. (Sm100)

Brilliant..just brilliant (Sm152)



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Re: Sarries the benchmark
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
21 October, 2017 08:44
Quote:
RleQuin
Quote:
Cookie
I find it impossible to be envious of a club that runs itself so financially appallingly. Whilst I would like to win trophies, I wouldn't want to sell my soul to make that happen.

We have a sugar daddy and our finances are dire as well but on the pitch there is no comparison. They got away with cheating didn't they and it does make me laugh that it has all been forgotten and it is all down to an incredible academy product.
Everyone knows that is rubbish but they got away with it whereas we didn't.
RleQ

Can you expand on that a little? I mean I know we have a wealthy owner whose name I can't remember but does he really do anything other than own a priceless bit of South West London real estate? Does he not charge us rent and does he fund player transfers etc?



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
DOK (IP Logged)
21 October, 2017 08:59
Duncan Saville is the name you're trying to remember. He funds the club, in that somehow he makes up the difference between money in and money out every year. It's not always money, it can be loans or whatever the accountant says is more efficient.

Not sure what the question is on transfers. Does he provide extra money for other players to break their contract? Not that I'm aware. Presumably he agrees to paying up to the salary cap and for the two players outside that.

I assume he tells David Ellis what he's expecting the club to do and how much he's prepared to stump up and David Ellis then has to work out the budget.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
21 October, 2017 13:49
But you see thats the thing. Nigel Wrays interest makes sense because of his son and the bloke at Bath (Bruce..?) because he is an ex player but what tethers Duncan Saville to Quins? Is he a regular attendee? Did he used to play for us? Does his Mum knit the Teams socks?

Or is his just a financial interest? We proudly proclaim that we own our own Stadium and therefore have much greater control over our own destiny. I suspect that when the moment comes, Harlequins RFC as an entity will suddenly become seperate from Stoop Holdings or whatever it will be called.

Sugar Daddy? Not entirely sure tbh.....



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Re: Sarries the benchmark
Dave L (IP Logged)
21 October, 2017 14:28
Might be wrong but i don't think Jacko Wray is related to Nigel Wray?

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Eric Browett (IP Logged)
21 October, 2017 14:35
Jackson is not related to Nigel

Nigel was, I believe, a lower level club player, possibly Mill Hill. He's mainly a sports 'nut'.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
DOK (IP Logged)
21 October, 2017 17:21
Harlequins team and the stadium are/were separate business entities. That happened I think around relegation time. So if the team folded the Stoop wouldn't be part of the assets. Nothing for Saracens to worry about here since they don't own their stadium either.

Duncan Saville is not the original sugar daddy. That was a guy called Bekwith, who lasted a season but put £3m into the club. Then sold it to Saville. Why he wanted it, I don't know. I once asked Mark Evans but he claimed not to know.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
21 October, 2017 17:31
Quote:
Harlequins team and the stadium are/were separate business entities. That happened I think around relegation time.

I thought it happened much earlier than that; around the time the professional club was formed or when Saville bought it.



BB

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
Eric Browett (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 07:00
You'll be glad to know that Ospreys made us look fairly ordinary at times last night. They were impressive. Great game of rugby.

 
Re: Sarries the benchmark
DOK (IP Logged)
22 October, 2017 09:51
It didn't look ordinary. Just two good teams cancelling each other out.


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