Quote:HonkyTonk
Wont happen. Mid table in the prem, the odd good performance mixed with the odd bad one. That is enough for the club. The squad we have is underachieving (in terms if the performances). Not consistent enough
Quote:Harleys Evil Step Mum
Total Bottom 4 in the league beckons... OH JOY!!
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:Harleys Evil Step Mum
Total Bottom 4 in the league beckons... OH JOY!!
As does top 4. Or middle 4.
And since this wasn't a league game, it doesn't affect our end of season finish.
Quote:thomhQuote:Quinky KinQuote:Harleys Evil Step Mum
Total Bottom 4 in the league beckons... OH JOY!!
As does top 4. Or middle 4.
And since this wasn't a league game, it doesn't affect our end of season finish.
Good thing that the champions cup is played with entirely different rules and squads to the premiership. For a moment I was worried that today's game might have some bearing on where we are as a team and how likely we are to do well in the league.
I'm by no means firmly in the "JK must go immediately" camp, but nit-picking like that isn't going to change the mind of anyone who disagrees with you.
Quote:Dark Pies
For the last 12mths i've scorned this kind of talk and tried to be one of the more balanced posters on here, saying give it time, we'll see, we lost because of this that and the other.....
But i now have to admit that i regularly fantasise about winning the 150 million rollover on the Euromillions, buying the club....and sacking JK, Mapletoft, Osborne and (sadly) Minty on day one of ownership. (Nev and Rowntree get a pass).
[...and Day two i'd be ripping up the contracts with Greene King, DHL and Adidas. Day three would be getting the club motto changed from Nunquam Dormio to "Wake the **** up". Day four i'd offer PDJ a contract where he was paid to be placed in stocks behind the south stand before each match.]
We've all gotta have a dream...
Quote:ScrumheadQuote:Dark Pies
For the last 12mths i've scorned this kind of talk and tried to be one of the more balanced posters on here, saying give it time, we'll see, we lost because of this that and the other.....
But i now have to admit that i regularly fantasise about winning the 150 million rollover on the Euromillions, buying the club....and sacking JK, Mapletoft, Osborne and (sadly) Minty on day one of ownership. (Nev and Rowntree get a pass).
[...and Day two i'd be ripping up the contracts with Greene King, DHL and Adidas. Day three would be getting the club motto changed from Nunquam Dormio to "Wake the **** up". Day four i'd offer PDJ a contract where he was paid to be placed in stocks behind the south stand before each match.]
We've all gotta have a dream...
Haha - sounds like a dream I can get behind. Let's start a Euro Millions syndicate.
Quote:T-Bone
In all the JK must go threads, the other coaches rarely seem to get any criticism.
Given that we can't defend a maul and have shipped 30+ points five times this season, you'd think Easter might get some more criticism.
Given how poor our attacking maul is and the number of important lineouts we lose, whoever coaches that ought to be getting a bity more stick.
Our attacking play does seem to have improved this season, so whoever coaches that is in credit.
Quote:RodneyRegis
What is it that people don't unerstand about the DoR role? If it's Easter's fault, or the players' fault, then the DoR should sack the coach or drop the player. Or instil a culture where the players don't think that tackling is optional, or where anyone would dream of showing up late for training. we know the players can play well, so there's something wrong with the setup. Buck stops with the top man.
Quote:talkshowhost86
I wonder if those who do support the current coaching staff would then still be happy to give JK more time.
Quote:But he is responsible for all of the people who are responsible for those separate areas, and he's doing very little about it.
Quote:Cookie
Sitting 7th, out of Europe after 2 games and with 4 of the top 5 still to play in the first half of the season.
No need to panic. Oh no. Let's wait till the end of the season and hope that everything miraculously improves.
Once again, green shoots of recovery trampled on by the same old inefficiencies. There really isn't any change, is there?
Quote:Cookie
So where do you predict we'll finish, QK?
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:talkshowhost86
I wonder if those who do support the current coaching staff would then still be happy to give JK more time.
Personally, yes. It's where we are at the end of the season that matters, not at any other point.
Quote:But he is responsible for all of the people who are responsible for those separate areas, and he's doing very little about it.
You assume. He could be searching for replacements as we speak. He could have told them their contracts won't be renewed unless we finish at least 4th this season. He could even have given them notice that they are out of a job when this season ends. None of us know. Or do you?
Similarly, we could do well over the course of this season, suggesting the coaching team don't need changing after every defeat or poor performance.
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:Cookie
So where do you predict we'll finish, QK?
My prediction is 5th or 6th. What's your prediction?
Quote:talkshowhost86Quote:Quinky KinQuote:talkshowhost86
I wonder if those who do support the current coaching staff would then still be happy to give JK more time.
Personally, yes. It's where we are at the end of the season that matters, not at any other point.
Quote:But he is responsible for all of the people who are responsible for those separate areas, and he's doing very little about it.
You assume. He could be searching for replacements as we speak. He could have told them their contracts won't be renewed unless we finish at least 4th this season. He could even have given them notice that they are out of a job when this season ends. None of us know. Or do you?
Similarly, we could do well over the course of this season, suggesting the coaching team don't need changing after every defeat or poor performance.
So you'd happily see the current coaching team take us down before we did anything about it?
I'm not saying we'll get relegated, but this theory of not being able to do anything until the end of the season is ludicrous.
And if you really think that JK is doing something about the coaching, I'd love to know where that optimism comes from considering we seem to have hired one person from outside the club in his entire time as DOR.
Other than that it's just ex players or existing coaches moving around the club perpetuating the same problems that have got us into this position in the first place.
But yeah...let's wait until the end of the season.
Quote:Harleys Evil Step Mum
Did we REALLY improve???.....Scraped into the CC, lost most big games....Europe seemed over in a flash....Our International contingent lost value across the board (apart from Brown I suppose)
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:Cookie
So where do you predict we'll finish, QK?
My prediction is 5th or 6th. What's your prediction?
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:Harleys Evil Step Mum
Did we REALLY improve???.....Scraped into the CC, lost most big games....Europe seemed over in a flash....Our International contingent lost value across the board (apart from Brown I suppose)
Yes. Our league position improved, and as you point out, we're in the top tier European competition this year. How can those metrics be used to show that we didn't improve?
Quote:CookieQuote:Quinky KinQuote:Cookie
So where do you predict we'll finish, QK?
My prediction is 5th or 6th. What's your prediction?
Given we're 7th, Wasps are below us and the fact we still have to play most of the teams above us in the first half of fixtures, I'd say we'll finish 8th. Given we're out of Europe already, this would be dreadful.
So you're basically saying we'll improve on our current form and achieve the same as last season? Not much logic to back that up and not particularly aspirational.
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:talkshowhost86Quote:Quinky KinQuote:talkshowhost86
I wonder if those who do support the current coaching staff would then still be happy to give JK more time.
Personally, yes. It's where we are at the end of the season that matters, not at any other point.
Quote:But he is responsible for all of the people who are responsible for those separate areas, and he's doing very little about it.
You assume. He could be searching for replacements as we speak. He could have told them their contracts won't be renewed unless we finish at least 4th this season. He could even have given them notice that they are out of a job when this season ends. None of us know. Or do you?
Similarly, we could do well over the course of this season, suggesting the coaching team don't need changing after every defeat or poor performance.
So you'd happily see the current coaching team take us down before we did anything about it?
I'm not saying we'll get relegated, but this theory of not being able to do anything until the end of the season is ludicrous.
And if you really think that JK is doing something about the coaching, I'd love to know where that optimism comes from considering we seem to have hired one person from outside the club in his entire time as DOR.
Other than that it's just ex players or existing coaches moving around the club perpetuating the same problems that have got us into this position in the first place.
But yeah...let's wait until the end of the season.
You really struggle with reading what's written, don't you?
No, I won't be happy if anyone "takes us down". I assume you won't be happy if the current coaching setup actually improves our position? You just want them out?
I don't know what they're doing about the coaching, which is the point I made. You seem to know that they're doing nothing, so why not share your information?
And what do you suggest the club does to change the coaching setup, that will have a positive impact this season?
Quote:I think you'll find that we'll be in it for another 320 minutes at least.CookieQuote:Quinky KinQuote:Harleys Evil Step Mum
Did we REALLY improve???.....Scraped into the CC, lost most big games....Europe seemed over in a flash....Our International contingent lost value across the board (apart from Brown I suppose)
Yes. Our league position improved, and as you point out, we're in the top tier European competition this year. How can those metrics be used to show that we didn't improve?
what's the point of getting in it if the same old deficiencies mean you only stay in it for 160 minutes??
Quote:talkshowhost86
I can perfectly fine you condescending sod. You said wait until the end of the season whatever happens. Literally about 3 posts up. So with that, and unless you can show somewhere where I've said I'd want them sacked if we did well then I think you need to stop chucking around that sort of bilge in your glass house.
We know they're doing nothing because nothing is changing on the pitch. If they were doing something, we'd see some evidence on the pitch.
And I've already said what I'd do with the coaching set up to improve it. Get rid of most of them, especially those who have been at the club churning out the same dross for the last 5 years or so.
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:talkshowhost86
I can perfectly fine you condescending sod. You said wait until the end of the season whatever happens. Literally about 3 posts up. So with that, and unless you can show somewhere where I've said I'd want them sacked if we did well then I think you need to stop chucking around that sort of bilge in your glass house.
We know they're doing nothing because nothing is changing on the pitch. If they were doing something, we'd see some evidence on the pitch.
And I've already said what I'd do with the coaching set up to improve it. Get rid of most of them, especially those who have been at the club churning out the same dross for the last 5 years or so.
Temper!
Somebody's tired...
Quote:Harleys Evil Step Mum
Did we REALLY improve???.....Scraped into the CC, lost most big games....Europe seemed over in a flash....Our International contingent lost value across the board (apart from Brown I suppose)
Quote:talkshowhost86
Is that really the level of your debate?
Insults and then when someone calls you on it you form the rather brilliant 'somebody's tired'.
Inspirational stuff. Bravo.
Quote:you condescending sod
Quote:Quinten Poulsen
This coaching lark sounds really easy.
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:CookieQuote:Quinky KinQuote:Cookie
So where do you predict we'll finish, QK?
My prediction is 5th or 6th. What's your prediction?
Given we're 7th, Wasps are below us and the fact we still have to play most of the teams above us in the first half of fixtures, I'd say we'll finish 8th. Given we're out of Europe already, this would be dreadful.
So you're basically saying we'll improve on our current form and achieve the same as last season? Not much logic to back that up and not particularly aspirational.
If we finish 5th, that's an improvement. People on here complain that we don't improve; last season we did, and people still complain. But none of us know until we've played all 22 games, exactly where we'll finish. We could get relegated, we could finish first, but I doubt either will happen.
It could also be argued that people looking to sack the DOR after every defeat isn't particularly aspirational.
Quote:Quinten Poulsen
This coaching lark sounds really easy.
Quote:RodneyRegisQuote:Harleys Evil Step Mum
Did we REALLY improve???.....Scraped into the CC, lost most big games....Europe seemed over in a flash....Our International contingent lost value across the board (apart from Brown I suppose)
Quinky's going to cling onto that 2 point loss at saints in the final game last season for dear life.
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:talkshowhost86
Is that really the level of your debate?
Insults and then when someone calls you on it you form the rather brilliant 'somebody's tired'.
Inspirational stuff. Bravo.Quote:you condescending sod
Oh the irony!
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:I think you'll find that we'll be in it for another 320 minutes at least.CookieQuote:Quinky KinQuote:Harleys Evil Step Mum
Did we REALLY improve???.....Scraped into the CC, lost most big games....Europe seemed over in a flash....Our International contingent lost value across the board (apart from Brown I suppose)
Yes. Our league position improved, and as you point out, we're in the top tier European competition this year. How can those metrics be used to show that we didn't improve?
what's the point of getting in it if the same old deficiencies mean you only stay in it for 160 minutes??
Of course we could just aspire to being in the lower tier competition, with a good chance of winning it. What would you prefer?
Quote:talkshowhost86Quote:Quinten Poulsen
This coaching lark sounds really easy.
Lazy lazy 'argument'.
Presumably you take the same approach when sighing at any poor piece of play by any professional rugby player?
'This rugby lark sounds really easy'.
Quote:Cookie
There is no logic to say we'll improve. Yes, we went from 7th to 6th, but the standard of rugby did not improve at all. That's of greater concern than anything as that's what ultimately brings results. Given that 2 of the teams above us were behind us and look really strong, it's hard to see how we'll finish 5th (or even 6th).
I'm happy to see how things progress over the next month or so, but this nonsensical 'you can only judge at the end of the season' view is a recipe for disaster.
Quote:Quinten PoulsenQuote:talkshowhost86Quote:Quinten Poulsen
This coaching lark sounds really easy.
Lazy lazy 'argument'.
Presumably you take the same approach when sighing at any poor piece of play by any professional rugby player?
'This rugby lark sounds really easy'.
I get frustrated sure, but I don't want us to sack Marler because he gave away 4 penalties and got yellow carded yesterday etc.
Quote:Cookie
Why are we condensing this argument into one game? This has been going on for years now.
Quote:Quinten PoulsenQuote:talkshowhost86Quote:Quinten Poulsen
This coaching lark sounds really easy.
Lazy lazy 'argument'.
Presumably you take the same approach when sighing at any poor piece of play by any professional rugby player?
'This rugby lark sounds really easy'.
I get frustrated sure, but I don't want us to sack Marler because he gave away 4 penalties and got yellow carded yesterday etc.
Quote:Cookie
Ignoring the churlish retort (unless you genuinely think we'll we the last 4 games, which is the only way we could qualify), yet again you've just made stuff up again. At no point did I say I aspired to being in a lower competition. I want us to be in the Champions Cup and prove more competitive than the shambles of yesterday.
Quote:RodneyRegisQuote:Quinten PoulsenQuote:talkshowhost86Quote:Quinten Poulsen
This coaching lark sounds really easy.
Lazy lazy 'argument'.
Presumably you take the same approach when sighing at any poor piece of play by any professional rugby player?
'This rugby lark sounds really easy'.
I get frustrated sure, but I don't want us to sack Marler because he gave away 4 penalties and got yellow carded yesterday etc.
What does that have to do with anything? Nobody is suggesting that JK is not up to it on the basis of one match.
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:Cookie
There is no logic to say we'll improve. Yes, we went from 7th to 6th, but the standard of rugby did not improve at all. That's of greater concern than anything as that's what ultimately brings results. Given that 2 of the teams above us were behind us and look really strong, it's hard to see how we'll finish 5th (or even 6th).
I'm happy to see how things progress over the next month or so, but this nonsensical 'you can only judge at the end of the season' view is a recipe for disaster.
I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree with all of it.
I'm happier that we finished 6th than I would be if we'd played better and finished 7th. Others may not be. Ultimately what brings the season's result is how we play over 22 games; we can have a few poor performances (every team does), but simply seeing who's behind us now is irrelevant. This season has thrown up some bizarre results. Look at who's beaten who and there really is very little logic there. We beat Wasps a few weeks ago and they trounced us yesterday.
Hypothetically speaking, what if we now have three or four good wins in the league? We could still implode and tumble down the table.
I get where you're coming from, but we're different - the league is decided over a season and I believe you have to play everyone twice to see how you've improved. Remember, there were some calling for a new DOR before the season started!
But I do respect your stance on this. I just don't entirely agree with you.
Quote:Quinten PoulsenQuote:Cookie
Why are we condensing this argument into one game? This has been going on for years now.
It's not even a year and a half, and last year was an improvement.
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:Cookie
Ignoring the churlish retort (unless you genuinely think we'll we the last 4 games, which is the only way we could qualify), yet again you've just made stuff up again. At no point did I say I aspired to being in a lower competition. I want us to be in the Champions Cup and prove more competitive than the shambles of yesterday.
No offence meant Cookie, that wasn't entirely aimed at you. But my point is that we have done well in the lower competition; we were never going to win the senior cup this year. It's good for experience, and as a fan I'm happy to see Quins play against better opponents. In the long run I think the players will benefit.
Quote:talkshowhost86Quote:Quinten PoulsenQuote:Cookie
Why are we condensing this argument into one game? This has been going on for years now.
It's not even a year and a half, and last year was an improvement.
Do you genuinely think last year was an improvement, or is that based purely on the fact that we scraped into 6th by the skin of our teeth?
I accept that in terms of a league finish it was an improvement, but did you think the team actually improved in terms of their performances last season? And do you think they are continuing to improve this season?
Fair enough if you do...maybe I'm missing something. I'd just be interested to see what people think has improved in our play since JK came in, rather than just getting the same answer of 'well we finished 6th therefore we must have improved'.
Quote:Quinten PoulsenQuote:talkshowhost86Quote:Quinten PoulsenQuote:Cookie
Why are we condensing this argument into one game? This has been going on for years now.
It's not even a year and a half, and last year was an improvement.
Do you genuinely think last year was an improvement, or is that based purely on the fact that we scraped into 6th by the skin of our teeth?
I accept that in terms of a league finish it was an improvement, but did you think the team actually improved in terms of their performances last season? And do you think they are continuing to improve this season?
Fair enough if you do...maybe I'm missing something. I'd just be interested to see what people think has improved in our play since JK came in, rather than just getting the same answer of 'well we finished 6th therefore we must have improved'.
Mainly based on finishing 6th, as last season the low points were lower than anything I've seen for years, so they balanced out what I thought were some better performances.
I think we've improved again this season - attitude and attack. If we can make some strides with defence and discipline then great.
Quote:CookieQuote:Quinky KinQuote:Cookie
Ignoring the churlish retort (unless you genuinely think we'll we the last 4 games, which is the only way we could qualify), yet again you've just made stuff up again. At no point did I say I aspired to being in a lower competition. I want us to be in the Champions Cup and prove more competitive than the shambles of yesterday.
No offence meant Cookie, that wasn't entirely aimed at you. But my point is that we have done well in the lower competition; we were never going to win the senior cup this year. It's good for experience, and as a fan I'm happy to see Quins play against better opponents. In the long run I think the players will benefit.
All good. And agreed. We need to improve if we want to compete in the Champions Cup. We can agree on that!