Quote:1908
It seems as if you haven't got the depth of players a club needs to mount a serious challenge in Europe or for the Premiership.
Not sure what JK can do. You can't build a house with straw.
How many Quins players would, for example, Baxter want at Exeter? I'll leave you to debate that! You know your club far better than me. And would Baxter, if he was at Quins, do any better than JK bearing in mind what he would have to work with?
I think the bottom line is that you don't have that many quality players and seemingly a coaching set up that is unable to inspire what you have.
Quote:Quaking Quin
Yawn.............
You are all repeating exactly what was said this time last season by a handful of posters who were ripped to shreads by the great and the good on CAW.
Quote:I was genuinely optimistic after the performance against La Rochelle but the reality is that it was another one-off, like the home win against Sarries last season.
Quote:Quins, with or without injuries and international call-ups, do not have the depth of squad or application to compete at the top Euro level or Aviva play-offs. They have not built progressively each year with a backbone of quality players to compete in the squad like Sarries have done and they do not possess the tactical nous of Rob Baxter.
Quote:Stooperman
So far if it was a school report, I'd be giving Quins a C minus!
Not a J-/K+?
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:RodneyRegisQuote:Harleys Evil Step Mum
Did we REALLY improve???.....Scraped into the CC, lost most big games....Europe seemed over in a flash....Our International contingent lost value across the board (apart from Brown I suppose)
Quinky's going to cling onto that 2 point loss at saints in the final game last season for dear life.
Quinky doesn't base the whole season on any one game. Quinky looks at the bigger picture.
Quinky looks at facts - we finished 6th, we got into the European Cup. Two improvements on the previous season.
Quote:Stooperman
^^
We've won one out of our last 5, which was at home V Sale. I'd say that we are starting to find some consistency...being consistently poor.
We have of course also beaten Gloucester at home in the league. I don't think we've lost at The Stoop to them in the league for donkeys years, so that's not a world beating performance - and look where Glos are in the league.
So I think it would be disingenuous to claim that the win at the Ricoh was anything other than an outlier and a one off. Also bear in mind that this was against a Wasps team which was in a desperate run of form.
So far if it was a school report, I'd be giving Quins a C minus!
Quote:thomhQuote:Quinky KinQuote:RodneyRegisQuote:Harleys Evil Step Mum
Did we REALLY improve???.....Scraped into the CC, lost most big games....Europe seemed over in a flash....Our International contingent lost value across the board (apart from Brown I suppose)
Quinky's going to cling onto that 2 point loss at saints in the final game last season for dear life.
Quinky doesn't base the whole season on any one game. Quinky looks at the bigger picture.
Quinky looks at facts - we finished 6th, we got into the European Cup. Two improvements on the previous season.
That's just one improvement expressed in two different ways. We finished one place higher than the previous year, but with fewer actual points. No real underlying improvement, just a quirk of the table.
Also worth remembering that we had been flying high in 2nd or 3rd in late 2015 before CoS's departure was announced, at which point everything went spiraling downwards.
Quote:1908
It seems as if you haven't got the depth of players a club needs to mount a serious challenge in Europe or for the Premiership.
Not sure what JK can do. You can't build a house with straw.
How many Quins players would, for example, Baxter want at Exeter? I'll leave you to debate that! You know your club far better than me. And would Baxter, if he was at Quins, do any better than JK bearing in mind what he would have to work with?
I think the bottom line is that you don't have that many quality players and seemingly a coaching set up that is unable to inspire what you have.
Quote:Quin Kong
I think that JKs and Quins problem is that they’re over coached. I also worry that the Wasps game may have been don’t get injured. I hope that the only coaching against any opponent in future is on direct opposites ‘tells’ and nothing more, let the player work out how to defeat them. Other than that just dry run through various drills for muscle memory with only two or three players told to get in position for them to take effect.
Quote:Quin Kong
I think that JKs and Quins problem is that they’re over coached. I also worry that the Wasps game may have been don’t get injured. I hope that the only coaching against any opponent in future is on direct opposites ‘tells’ and nothing more, let the player work out how to defeat them. Other than that just dry run through various drills for muscle memory with only two or three players told to get in position for them to take effect.
Quote:RodneyRegisQuote:1908
It seems as if you haven't got the depth of players a club needs to mount a serious challenge in Europe or for the Premiership.
Not sure what JK can do. You can't build a house with straw.
How many Quins players would, for example, Baxter want at Exeter? I'll leave you to debate that! You know your club far better than me. And would Baxter, if he was at Quins, do any better than JK bearing in mind what he would have to work with?
I think the bottom line is that you don't have that many quality players and seemingly a coaching set up that is unable to inspire what you have.
Na. A team devoid of class wouldn't have beaten sarries twice when nobody had beaten them at full strength for 2 years. Wouldn't have win that game against a wasps side who hadn't list at home in living memory. Injuries haven't helped, but we've seen how good this side can be. Attitude and culture is the problem.
Quote:Rocker
Sorry QP and Blucher, but over coaching is a valid hypothesis. We do come across rather rabbit in the head lights at times. That's where Smith has been such a revelation this season, if a bit lacking in nous at times. There's really no need to be so unnecessarily unpleasant to another poster.
I find the holier than though attitude on here very tiresome these days. Why is it necessary to disparage those with a different viewpoint in such an unpleasant manner? Can we all just play nice? Please.
Quote:Rocker
Sorry QP and Blucher, but over coaching is a valid hypothesis. We do come across rather rabbit in the head lights at times. That's where Smith has been such a revelation this season, if a bit lacking in nous at times. There's really no need to be so unnecessarily unpleasant to another poster.
I find the holier than though attitude on here very tiresome these days. Why is it necessary to disparage those with a different viewpoint in such an unpleasant manner? Can we all just play nice? Please.
Quote:Quinten PoulsenQuote:Quin Kong
I think that JKs and Quins problem is that they’re over coached. I also worry that the Wasps game may have been don’t get injured. I hope that the only coaching against any opponent in future is on direct opposites ‘tells’ and nothing more, let the player work out how to defeat them. Other than that just dry run through various drills for muscle memory with only two or three players told to get in position for them to take effect.
Started the night shift in the bar did you?
Quote:RleQuin
The problem I have is that we are constantly told by Ellis and I believe it is also repeated inside the club that we are the best club in the World and others follow our example.
Therefore, why shouldn't we expect a top four finish every season and new, exciting signings every season plus qualification for the Euro knockout stages?
The BS being spouted by the club is as far from reality as you can get.
Why isn't this being addressed?
As I keep saying, we are a mediocre outfit.
If it isn't the players, it must be the coaches and vice versa.
Surely someone in authority must be able to see this and sort it out.
How many times has someone (player or coach) said that we need to take a long, hard look at ourselves or similar?
For the price people have to pay to go and watch, it simply isn't good enough when the team doesn't turn up! Mr Mourinho agrees with me at least![]()
RleQ
Quote:Quin KongQuote:Quinten PoulsenQuote:Quin Kong
I think that JKs and Quins problem is that they’re over coached. I also worry that the Wasps game may have been don’t get injured. I hope that the only coaching against any opponent in future is on direct opposites ‘tells’ and nothing more, let the player work out how to defeat them. Other than that just dry run through various drills for muscle memory with only two or three players told to get in position for them to take effect.
Started the night shift in the bar did you?
What? I gave an opinion of what has been going wrong,without trying to attribute blame and that’s your response?
Quote:Quin KongQuote:Quinten PoulsenQuote:Quin Kong
I think that JKs and Quins problem is that they’re over coached. I also worry that the Wasps game may have been don’t get injured. I hope that the only coaching against any opponent in future is on direct opposites ‘tells’ and nothing more, let the player work out how to defeat them. Other than that just dry run through various drills for muscle memory with only two or three players told to get in position for them to take effect.
Started the night shift in the bar did you?
What? I gave an opinion of what has been going wrong,without trying to attribute blame and that’s your response?
Quote:Mancquin
Harlequins is a business. I have just retired after 40 years in business and one of the biggest changes in the last 40 years is how you communicate and promote your business. It has nothing to do with Truth but a lot to do with spin and news management. We should not be surprised by the BS coming from Ellis and the management any more than we should be surprised by Trump's fake news and Tweets. We can see that we have a good squad on good money. We can also see that we struggle to perform at the level of Exeter, Sarries and Wasps. The management can see this as well, but in modern business the last thing you do is a Gerald Rather and tell the truth or admit to any weakness. Jobs are at stake here. JKs and Ellis's and they don't want to lose them.
Quote:Quinten PoulsenQuote:Quin KongQuote:Quinten PoulsenQuote:Quin Kong
I think that JKs and Quins problem is that they’re over coached. I also worry that the Wasps game may have been don’t get injured. I hope that the only coaching against any opponent in future is on direct opposites ‘tells’ and nothing more, let the player work out how to defeat them. Other than that just dry run through various drills for muscle memory with only two or three players told to get in position for them to take effect.
Started the night shift in the bar did you?
What? I gave an opinion of what has been going wrong,without trying to attribute blame and that’s your response?
No, it's just that apart from the first line I didn't understand any of your post!
Blucher and BB get it!
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:Mancquin
Harlequins is a business. I have just retired after 40 years in business and one of the biggest changes in the last 40 years is how you communicate and promote your business. It has nothing to do with Truth but a lot to do with spin and news management. We should not be surprised by the BS coming from Ellis and the management any more than we should be surprised by Trump's fake news and Tweets. We can see that we have a good squad on good money. We can also see that we struggle to perform at the level of Exeter, Sarries and Wasps. The management can see this as well, but in modern business the last thing you do is a Gerald Rather and tell the truth or admit to any weakness. Jobs are at stake here. JKs and Ellis's and they don't want to lose them.
Sadly I've only been in business for a little over 30 years. I disagree with some of what you say, and sports is unlike pretty much any other business in many ways.
But the fact that you decide to bring the US President into this kind of makes me think it's not a discussion worth having.
Quote:MarlerOne
We currently have an entire front row out due to suspensions, this includes 2 who are Eng /Lions players... another Eng player who can't be bothered to turn up on time for Captain's run...there is something deeply wrong at the club we all love....
Quote:blucherquinQuote:MarlerOne
We currently have an entire front row out due to suspensions, this includes 2 who are Eng /Lions players... another Eng player who can't be bothered to turn up on time for Captain's run...there is something deeply wrong at the club we all love....
Yes and when there’s thunder next door’s wife has a baby, because those things happened before so it must be linked.......
Quote:MrOtherQuote:blucherquinQuote:MarlerOne
We currently have an entire front row out due to suspensions, this includes 2 who are Eng /Lions players... another Eng player who can't be bothered to turn up on time for Captain's run...there is something deeply wrong at the club we all love....
Yes and when there�s thunder next door�s wife has a baby, because those things happened before so it must be linked.......
Everything that occurs within a hierarchical human collective happens in large part due to the (in)actions of the (wo)man at the top.
If our team�s performance is as independent of the DoR�s actions as your neighbour�s fertility is of the weather then we might as well dispense with the post all together and save the money.
Quote:MrOtherQuote:blucherquinQuote:MarlerOne
We currently have an entire front row out due to suspensions, this includes 2 who are Eng /Lions players... another Eng player who can't be bothered to turn up on time for Captain's run...there is something deeply wrong at the club we all love....
Yes and when there’s thunder next door’s wife has a baby, because those things happened before so it must be linked.......
Everything that occurs within a hierarchical human collective happens in large part due to the (in)actions of the (wo)man at the top.
If our team’s performance is as independent of the DoR’s actions as your neighbour’s fertility is of the weather then we might as well dispense with the post all together and save the money.
Quote:blucherquinQuote:MrOtherQuote:blucherquinQuote:MarlerOne
We currently have an entire front row out due to suspensions, this includes 2 who are Eng /Lions players... another Eng player who can't be bothered to turn up on time for Captain's run...there is something deeply wrong at the club we all love....
Yes and when there’s thunder next door’s wife has a baby, because those things happened before so it must be linked.......
Everything that occurs within a hierarchical human collective happens in large part due to the (in)actions of the (wo)man at the top.
If our team’s performance is as independent of the DoR’s actions as your neighbour’s fertility is of the weather then we might as well dispense with the post all together and save the money.
I'm afraid at "hierarchical human collective" we rumbled you as having a middle management job that involves "giving good meeting"
Quote:blucherquin
Quote:MrOtherQuote:blucherquin
My point was rather, in what categories of organization can we argue that the buck stops (t)here?
It’s not just sports clubs, or businesses or universities etc etc. it applies - it seems to me - to any group of people that together are aiming to achieve something and that are hierarchically organized. Unwieldy as it is “hierarchical human collective” seems to me to be the term for that.
Quote:Harleys Evil Step Mum
'Overcoached'.....WTF does that mean??????
Quote:blucherquinQuote:MrOtherQuote:blucherquin
My point was rather, in what categories of organization can we argue that the buck stops (t)here?
It’s not just sports clubs, or businesses or universities etc etc. it applies - it seems to me - to any group of people that together are aiming to achieve something and that are hierarchically organized. Unwieldy as it is “hierarchical human collective” seems to me to be the term for that.
Totally get it, but you'll agree it couldn't be allowed to pass....
Quote:Mancquin
2 British Lions suspended. The worst injury list ever. Bothma yet to play. Saili hardly played at all. Ditto Catrakilis. Two ex players in coaching roles for which they are not trained? A DoR who was not first or even second choice. Its surprising we are doing as well as we are.
Quote:DOK
See a stick, beat JK!
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:Mancquin
2 British Lions suspended. The worst injury list ever. Bothma yet to play. Saili hardly played at all. Ditto Catrakilis. Two ex players in coaching roles for which they are not trained? A DoR who was not first or even second choice. Its surprising we are doing as well as we are.
I think JK should be ashamed that he signed a player who got a fractured bone in his throat, a second player who was concussed making a tackle, and a third who dared to break an arm. What kind of DOR signs a player who gets injured, let alone three of them?
Quote:talkshowhost86Quote:Quinky KinQuote:Mancquin
2 British Lions suspended. The worst injury list ever. Bothma yet to play. Saili hardly played at all. Ditto Catrakilis. Two ex players in coaching roles for which they are not trained? A DoR who was not first or even second choice. Its surprising we are doing as well as we are.
I think JK should be ashamed that he signed a player who got a fractured bone in his throat, a second player who was concussed making a tackle, and a third who dared to break an arm. What kind of DOR signs a player who gets injured, let alone three of them?
*hunts for wording where Mancquin blamed JK for signing injured players*
Nope it can't be done.
But hey...any stick to beat someone who doesn't agree with you eh?
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:talkshowhost86Quote:Quinky KinQuote:Mancquin
2 British Lions suspended. The worst injury list ever. Bothma yet to play. Saili hardly played at all. Ditto Catrakilis. Two ex players in coaching roles for which they are not trained? A DoR who was not first or even second choice. Its surprising we are doing as well as we are.
I think JK should be ashamed that he signed a player who got a fractured bone in his throat, a second player who was concussed making a tackle, and a third who dared to break an arm. What kind of DOR signs a player who gets injured, let alone three of them?
*hunts for wording where Mancquin blamed JK for signing injured players*
Nope it can't be done.
But hey...any stick to beat someone who doesn't agree with you eh?
You're right, I should have pointed out that the club are at fault for signing players who get injured. Which then suggests that no club in the world is properly run. Unless you can highlight any club that has never had an injured player?
Incidentally, nice of you to pull me up. Will you be mentioning to DOK that made the same grave mistake?
Quote:Cookie
Maybe one day QK will realise that he does more than anyone to perpetuate the JK discussion by turning so many comments that vaguely resemble criticism of JK into a full-blown assassination of his man.
Then again.........
Quote:ArchQuin
QK & JK are one and the same
Quote:le tiss
The truth is something seems to have been rotten in the Quins camp since COS was in the chair. It has not got any better under the "new" regime and it seems like apathy has taken quite a hold. I am increasingly of the opinion that a new broom is very much needed or we will just continue meander to mid table at best year after year. Given the state of affairs for the last few years, I am quite surprised there are as many cheer leaders for the current set up as there are. I truly hope JK can prove my pessimistic view of the future wrong. The thing that worries me most is the refusal for the management team to admit they have a big problem at present. Too many heads in too much sand I fear.
Quote:Quinky KinQuote:Cookie
Maybe one day QK will realise that he does more than anyone to perpetuate the JK discussion by turning so many comments that vaguely resemble criticism of JK into a full-blown assassination of his man.
Then again.........
Maybe Cookie will also notice that I've been critical of the club and of JK at times, when I felt it necessary.
Then again........
Quote:ScaramoucheQuote:le tiss
The truth is something seems to have been rotten in the Quins camp since COS was in the chair. It has not got any better under the "new" regime and it seems like apathy has taken quite a hold. I am increasingly of the opinion that a new broom is very much needed or we will just continue meander to mid table at best year after year. Given the state of affairs for the last few years, I am quite surprised there are as many cheer leaders for the current set up as there are. I truly hope JK can prove my pessimistic view of the future wrong. The thing that worries me most is the refusal for the management team to admit they have a big problem at present. Too many heads in too much sand I fear.
You have a point le tiss we do seem to have had our ups and downs in recent years but the men in charge are not innocents abroad and other factors have contributed to the Club's up and down form, such as injuries, lack of a settled team, overcoaching by new men keen to earn their stripes and so on. Look how far we have come in the last few years. Its a journey we are on together and wanting instant success and always calling for the head of the man in charge is a little tiresome. No, its extremely tiresome. Suggest viable alternatives and put forward an action plan, yes, but JK must go is wearing a bit thin.
Mind you, the missus points out that several of our core players are starting families and settling down so whether that is a factor or not is debatable.
Quote:le tissQuote:ScaramoucheQuote:le tiss
The truth is something seems to have been rotten in the Quins camp since COS was in the chair. It has not got any better under the "new" regime and it seems like apathy has taken quite a hold. I am increasingly of the opinion that a new broom is very much needed or we will just continue meander to mid table at best year after year. Given the state of affairs for the last few years, I am quite surprised there are as many cheer leaders for the current set up as there are. I truly hope JK can prove my pessimistic view of the future wrong. The thing that worries me most is the refusal for the management team to admit they have a big problem at present. Too many heads in too much sand I fear.
You have a point le tiss we do seem to have had our ups and downs in recent years but the men in charge are not innocents abroad and other factors have contributed to the Club's up and down form, such as injuries, lack of a settled team, overcoaching by new men keen to earn their stripes and so on. Look how far we have come in the last few years. Its a journey we are on together and wanting instant success and always calling for the head of the man in charge is a little tiresome. No, its extremely tiresome. Suggest viable alternatives and put forward an action plan, yes, but JK must go is wearing a bit thin.
Mind you, the missus points out that several of our core players are starting families and settling down so whether that is a factor or not is debatable.
I just think things have got a little bit too cosy for some people. Recruiting from within is all well and good for the sake of consistency, but is only really a valid exercise if whats gone before is worth sticking with. its only a matter of time before the supposed lesser sides improve to the point where our yearly struggle will start to become retaining our mid table standing. I could be wrong but it feels like we are starting to get left behind.
Quote:le tissQuote:ScaramoucheQuote:le tiss
The truth is something seems to have been rotten in the Quins camp since COS was in the chair. It has not got any better under the "new" regime and it seems like apathy has taken quite a hold. I am increasingly of the opinion that a new broom is very much needed or we will just continue meander to mid table at best year after year. Given the state of affairs for the last few years, I am quite surprised there are as many cheer leaders for the current set up as there are. I truly hope JK can prove my pessimistic view of the future wrong. The thing that worries me most is the refusal for the management team to admit they have a big problem at present. Too many heads in too much sand I fear.
You have a point le tiss we do seem to have had our ups and downs in recent years but the men in charge are not innocents abroad and other factors have contributed to the Club's up and down form, such as injuries, lack of a settled team, overcoaching by new men keen to earn their stripes and so on. Look how far we have come in the last few years. Its a journey we are on together and wanting instant success and always calling for the head of the man in charge is a little tiresome. No, its extremely tiresome. Suggest viable alternatives and put forward an action plan, yes, but JK must go is wearing a bit thin.
Mind you, the missus points out that several of our core players are starting families and settling down so whether that is a factor or not is debatable.
I just think things have got a little bit too cosy for some people. Recruiting from within is all well and good for the sake of consistency, but is only really a valid exercise if whats gone before is worth sticking with. its only a matter of time before the supposed lesser sides improve to the point where our yearly struggle will start to become retaining our mid table standing. I could be wrong but it feels like we are starting to get left behind.
Quote:ScaramoucheQuote:le tissQuote:ScaramoucheQuote:le tiss
The truth is something seems to have been rotten in the Quins camp since COS was in the chair. It has not got any better under the "new" regime and it seems like apathy has taken quite a hold. I am increasingly of the opinion that a new broom is very much needed or we will just continue meander to mid table at best year after year. Given the state of affairs for the last few years, I am quite surprised there are as many cheer leaders for the current set up as there are. I truly hope JK can prove my pessimistic view of the future wrong. The thing that worries me most is the refusal for the management team to admit they have a big problem at present. Too many heads in too much sand I fear.
You have a point le tiss we do seem to have had our ups and downs in recent years but the men in charge are not innocents abroad and other factors have contributed to the Club's up and down form, such as injuries, lack of a settled team, overcoaching by new men keen to earn their stripes and so on. Look how far we have come in the last few years. Its a journey we are on together and wanting instant success and always calling for the head of the man in charge is a little tiresome. No, its extremely tiresome. Suggest viable alternatives and put forward an action plan, yes, but JK must go is wearing a bit thin.
Mind you, the missus points out that several of our core players are starting families and settling down so whether that is a factor or not is debatable.
I just think things have got a little bit too cosy for some people. Recruiting from within is all well and good for the sake of consistency, but is only really a valid exercise if whats gone before is worth sticking with. its only a matter of time before the supposed lesser sides improve to the point where our yearly struggle will start to become retaining our mid table standing. I could be wrong but it feels like we are starting to get left behind.
I can see why you say "cosy" but Sarries have spent a great deal of money in trying to create a togetherness that we already have in spades.
Mind you, if we get nilled at home by Wuss tomorrow I will be starting my own JK must go thread!!
Quote:ScaramoucheQuote:le tissQuote:ScaramoucheQuote:le tiss
The truth is something seems to have been rotten in the Quins camp since COS was in the chair. It has not got any better under the "new" regime and it seems like apathy has taken quite a hold. I am increasingly of the opinion that a new broom is very much needed or we will just continue meander to mid table at best year after year. Given the state of affairs for the last few years, I am quite surprised there are as many cheer leaders for the current set up as there are. I truly hope JK can prove my pessimistic view of the future wrong. The thing that worries me most is the refusal for the management team to admit they have a big problem at present. Too many heads in too much sand I fear.
You have a point le tiss we do seem to have had our ups and downs in recent years but the men in charge are not innocents abroad and other factors have contributed to the Club's up and down form, such as injuries, lack of a settled team, overcoaching by new men keen to earn their stripes and so on. Look how far we have come in the last few years. Its a journey we are on together and wanting instant success and always calling for the head of the man in charge is a little tiresome. No, its extremely tiresome. Suggest viable alternatives and put forward an action plan, yes, but JK must go is wearing a bit thin.
Mind you, the missus points out that several of our core players are starting families and settling down so whether that is a factor or not is debatable.
I just think things have got a little bit too cosy for some people. Recruiting from within is all well and good for the sake of consistency, but is only really a valid exercise if whats gone before is worth sticking with. its only a matter of time before the supposed lesser sides improve to the point where our yearly struggle will start to become retaining our mid table standing. I could be wrong but it feels like we are starting to get left behind.
I can see why you say "cosy" but Sarries have spent a great deal of money in trying to create a togetherness that we already have in spades.
Mind you, if we get nilled at home by Wuss tomorrow I will be starting my own JK must go thread!!