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Is it really that bad!?
Southwest Quin (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 12:18
Afternoon All,

Its a lovely sunny day so I thought I throw in my 2 pence worth as I seem to do every few months.

There seems to be a lot of people on here rightly or wrongly bashing the team, coaches each other.....so I though Id do a quick analysis of our performance so far in terms of points and expectations:

So here goes:

Played: 7
Points: 20
Average Points per game: 2.86

Now we all want Champions cup and play off spots so in the last 6 seasons 4th place in the league went for between 68 and 65 points, as an average that 3 points per match to get 4th or the highest that 4th place has gone for is 68 points which is 3.01 points per match.

So as it stands, 7 games and 32% of the league season gone we are 1.07 points of target to achieve 4th in the league, now the stats don't lie, is this not good enough bearing in mind the level of injured players?

Now, yes our defence is lacking composure and effectiveness, this can be corrected (hopefully) but even with this issue we are still in the fight and on track for a play off spot.

In my view the first 3rd of the season has gone OK!

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Rocker (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 12:32
All good but you have to look at who we've played, and not played....

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 12:35
Well even under your own analysis we are missing the target and missing it by 1.07 points per game is actually a fair bit.

But I think that statistical analysis misses a few key points on both sides of the debate.

1. We've had a comparatively easy run of fixtures so far. Our next four games are very tricky taking us up to the half way point, so I think that points per game ratio will look very dodgy come Christmas.

2. We've lost two out of two in the Champions Cup, which surely we were at least targeting to compete in effectively, including one real horror show of a performance at Wasps.

3. As you mention yourself, it doesn't take into account our injuries, which have made everything quite a bit harder for the players and for JK and co.

4. A purely statistical analysis always runs the risk of ignoring what has actually happened on the pitch. The Warriors game, for example, reads as a 5 point win, but that masks a multitude of problems that were exposed by a pretty poor opposition.

5. I'm not really sure how much we are truly aiming for top 4. Without knowing what targets the board have set JK, it's perhaps unfair to measure him against our own targets anyway. Although that is only natural from all sports fans.


In general I think your overall conclusion that the first third of the season has gone okay is about right. It's been okay.

But I think by the time we get to the half-way point of the season, based on what we've seen so far, we'll be below 'okay'.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
GP2110 (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 12:39
As I just posted on a separate thread:

"For some perspective, the Roadmap (which I think is a useful tool) has us needing 21 points after GW 10 to finish 6th.

At present, we have 20 points so even if we only get 1 point from our next 3 (Exeter, Bath, Sarries), that would still leave us on track for Top 6 - at least as far as the Roadmap is concerned".

So, on the basis that the Roadmap takes into account who we have / haven't played, it is by no means a disaster

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 12:41
Yes - let's wait until game 11. According to the roadmap we need 5 for 6th and 9 for 4th from the next 4 games.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
DOK (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 13:17
Hmm..Exeter, Bath, Saracens - hard to see us getting 5 points from those games.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 13:35
Bath are no great shakes. I'd back us to put in a performance against Sarries - we've beaten them twice at home in the last 2 seasons against all the odds.

A win against Exeter would be the biggest of all IMO. But I'd be utterly flabbergasted.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Cookie (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 13:58
Just done a comparison of this season's results against the teams we've played versus last season's (replacing Irish with Bristol).

Interestingly, we won 4 and lost 3 each time, the differences being Wasps (A) and Bristol/Irish (A).

More interesting, though, was points accumulation. Whilst we've got one more this year (20), we've allowed the opposition to accumulate 3 more than last season (18).

So we're effectively trending to repeat last season, albeit a very slight improvement on our points which is more than offset by the points we're giving up to others.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 14:28
Quote:
GP2110
As I just posted on a separate thread:
"For some perspective, the Roadmap (which I think is a useful tool) has us needing 21 points after GW 10 to finish 6th.

At present, we have 20 points so even if we only get 1 point from our next 3 (Exeter, Bath, Sarries), that would still leave us on track for Top 6 - at least as far as the Roadmap is concerned".

So, on the basis that the Roadmap takes into account who we have / haven't played, it is by no means a disaster

I’d be interested to see how that all matches up if the next four games do go badly.

If we do only get 1 point from the next four games, sounds like the roadmap would have us as being on course, but looking at the table and the fixtures we could well then be in 10th and likely no higher than 8th.

Does the roadmap envisage a glorious end of season fightback, or are there just more teams taking points off each other this season meaning a bad run can really leave you off the pace.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
arniepie (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 15:19
When the draw was made for the European cup did anyone honestly think we would get anything from the group we were in???

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 15:28
Quote:
arniepie
When the draw was made for the European cup did anyone honestly think we would get anything from the group we were in???

Just a bit of a bashing tbh

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
RleQuin (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 15:35
Quote:
HonkyTonk
Quote:
arniepie
When the draw was made for the European cup did anyone honestly think we would get anything from the group we were in???

Just a bit of a bashing tbh

As soon as we qualified for the Champions Cup, I knew we were out even before the draw was made. Just look at our performance over the last 20 years when we've qualified - we've never done well even when we've been playing really well.
Sadly, it is a fact, we can't do the HC!
RleQ

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 15:41
Quote:
arniepie
When the draw was made for the European cup did anyone honestly think we would get anything from the group we were in???

Well we've proven we can beat Wasps, and there's no reason we shouldn't really be competing with Ulster.

La Rochelle were fantastic last season but we've already given them one good game.

With a bit of nous and consistency we should certainly have been competing rather than having been out after two games out of two.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
DOK (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 16:58
I think we're on track at the moment for our minimum target of 6th (though we just seem to be cannon fodder in the European Cup). Given our injuries (28 is it?) and our defence, that can't be bad. Surely we can fix some of the defence issues, then we'll be in a better position?

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
poorfour (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 17:03
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
GP2110
As I just posted on a separate thread:
"For some perspective, the Roadmap (which I think is a useful tool) has us needing 21 points after GW 10 to finish 6th.

At present, we have 20 points so even if we only get 1 point from our next 3 (Exeter, Bath, Sarries), that would still leave us on track for Top 6 - at least as far as the Roadmap is concerned".

So, on the basis that the Roadmap takes into account who we have / haven't played, it is by no means a disaster

I’d be interested to see how that all matches up if the next four games do go badly.

If we do only get 1 point from the next four games, sounds like the roadmap would have us as being on course, but looking at the table and the fixtures we could well then be in 10th and likely no higher than 8th.

Does the roadmap envisage a glorious end of season fightback, or are there just more teams taking points off each other this season meaning a bad run can really leave you off the pace.

The roadmap just looks at historically how we have done against those teams based a little bit on their recent finishing position. This year we have a tough middle of the season but a comparatively easy run in when you look at what we have had the last few seasons.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 17:14
Quote:
poorfour
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
GP2110
As I just posted on a separate thread:
"For some perspective, the Roadmap (which I think is a useful tool) has us needing 21 points after GW 10 to finish 6th.

At present, we have 20 points so even if we only get 1 point from our next 3 (Exeter, Bath, Sarries), that would still leave us on track for Top 6 - at least as far as the Roadmap is concerned".

So, on the basis that the Roadmap takes into account who we have / haven't played, it is by no means a disaster

I’d be interested to see how that all matches up if the next four games do go badly.

If we do only get 1 point from the next four games, sounds like the roadmap would have us as being on course, but looking at the table and the fixtures we could well then be in 10th and likely no higher than 8th.

Does the roadmap envisage a glorious end of season fightback, or are there just more teams taking points off each other this season meaning a bad run can really leave you off the pace.

The roadmap just looks at historically how we have done against those teams based a little bit on their recent finishing position. This year we have a tough middle of the season but a comparatively easy run in when you look at what we have had the last few seasons.

Cheers.

I just find it hard to understand a situation where we may be in 8th-10th half-way through the season and still be 'on course' for a top 6 finish.

Ignoring the roadmap though, I suppose we are all just hoping that even if we are as far down as 10th at the half-way point, then with injured players coming back we'll have a fairly strong squad going into the six-nations period (even though we'll lose a few as well).

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 17:22
Quote:
DOK
Hmm..Exeter, Bath, Saracens - hard to see us getting 5 points from those games.

Would not rule out getting something against Bath. They could be without JJ, Watson, Priestland, Faletua, Louw, Ewles, Underhill. Likewise Sarries could be without George, Mako, Kruis, Maro, Billy V, Farrell, Isiekwie, Lozowski. Still both good sides but I would rather play them without those players. We could very well have Bothma, Clifford, Merrick, Buchanan, Gray, Marchant all back, as well as Marler if he does not get back in the England squad. We also will not be missing Visser and Roberts.

Oh, almost forgot, Savea as well!!!

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 17:58
To add to the above, Roko has been called up as well now (about time)

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Bucksquin (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 18:32
One thing slightly missing in this "JK" debate is that he has a ready-made excuse (should Ellis et al ever feel inclined to wonder whether they've done the right thing with him) that he seems already to be practicing in the public domain whenever he gets the chance, which is "the injuries". However, rarely has the starting 15 we put out really looked that depleted, in terms of a first or second choice player in each position. I say that because no team ever has all of its first choice players available all the time, so that's not the right comparison point.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
thomh (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 18:32
Quote:
DOK
I think we're on track at the moment for our minimum target of 6th (though we just seem to be cannon fodder in the European Cup). Given our injuries (28 is it?) and our defence, that can't be bad. Surely we can fix some of the defence issues, then we'll be in a better position?

Who are these 28 supposed injuries? It may have crept up, but to be honest I haven't felt like we've been fielding horribly depleted sides for much of this season.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Bucksquin (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 18:41
Quote:
thomh
Quote:
DOK
I think we're on track at the moment for our minimum target of 6th (though we just seem to be cannon fodder in the European Cup). Given our injuries (28 is it?) and our defence, that can't be bad. Surely we can fix some of the defence issues, then we'll be in a better position?

Who are these 28 supposed injuries? It may have crept up, but to be honest I haven't felt like we've been fielding horribly depleted sides for much of this season.

That's my point exactly.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
SiBolton (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 19:01
Think our attacks better than last season
Scoring more points than last season ( I think)
Line out is better than last season
Defence well We all know its bad
Didn5 expect to get out of Champions cup pool
Still dont think JK has to go,as I don5 think tha5 will fix anything

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 19:15
I would guess players out/unavailable are

Marler
Sink
Ward
Swainston
Collier
Gray
Buchanan
Merrick
Okafor
Clifford
Wallace
Bothma
South
Catrakilis
Micalkius
Aspland Robinson
Ibitoye
Cheeseman
Sali
Marchant
Stanley
Saunders
Murley
Coyle


Yarde

Some are guessed based on them not being involved in the a team recently. 3 short

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 19:17
Hennesey
Twomey
Morris

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
never sleep (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 19:34
By my reckoning, we are missing 6 out of 8 of our first choice pack and 3 of our 7 first choice backs, therefore only 6 first choice starters. Whatever anybody says, IMHO, that is a large impact

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 21:13
Quote:
talkshowhost86

Does the roadmap envisage a glorious end of season fightback, or are there just more teams taking points off each other this season meaning a bad run can really leave you off the pace.

I think this has definitely been the case throughout the league so far this season, when you look at who's been beating whom. There seem to be surprise results every week.

Quote:
thomh
Who are these 28 supposed injuries? It may have crept up, but to be honest I haven't felt like we've been fielding horribly depleted sides for much of this season.

I also think we've been putting out a reasonably strong starting XV; our real depletion has been shown up with the bench selections.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Quins4life (IP Logged)
30 October, 2017 22:23
Quote:
thomh
Quote:
DOK
I think we're on track at the moment for our minimum target of 6th (though we just seem to be cannon fodder in the European Cup). Given our injuries (28 is it?) and our defence, that can't be bad. Surely we can fix some of the defence issues, then we'll be in a better position?

Who are these 28 supposed injuries? It may have crept up, but to be honest I haven't felt like we've been fielding horribly depleted sides for much of this season.

Our backline has been pretty much full strength, although we have missed our two biggest signings of the summer with Catrakillis and Saili. Brown missed two games too.

Its in the forwards we've been hit. I think Glynn and Luamanu (maybe lambert) are the only forwards to be part of every match day squad so far. And they aren't even nailed on first choices.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
31 October, 2017 01:56
Quote:
RleQuin
Quote:
HonkyTonk
Quote:
arniepie
When the draw was made for the European cup did anyone honestly think we would get anything from the group we were in???

Just a bit of a bashing tbh

As soon as we qualified for the Champions Cup, I knew we were out even before the draw was made. Just look at our performance over the last 20 years when we've qualified - we've never done well even when we've been playing really well.
Sadly, it is a fact, we can't do the HC!
RleQ

[uk.images.search.yahoo.com]



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
RleQuin (IP Logged)
31 October, 2017 11:36
[quote Scaramouche][quote RleQuin][quote HonkyTonk][quote arniepie]When the draw was made for the European cup did anyone honestly think we would get anything from the group we were in???[/quote]

Just a bit of a bashing tbh[/quote]

As soon as we qualified for the Champions Cup, I knew we were out even before the draw was made. Just look at our performance over the last 20 years when we've qualified - we've never done well even when we've been playing really well.
Sadly, it is a fact, we can't do the HC!
RleQ[/quote]

Great film that.
I'll tell you what - I'll knock off the negative waves if the players stop playing like a bunch of hopeless wasters who look like they don't want to be there - deal?
On the other side, I'm fed up with all the overly positive posters who are living in a world of make believe!
RleQ

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
DOK (IP Logged)
31 October, 2017 11:52
You have to have the kind of resources Saracens have to make a decent fist of the European Cup. Without that and with our injuries, it was never going to work. I got told off last season for saying I'd rather win the euro tin pot than just be cannon fodder in our pool, but it's true!

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
31 October, 2017 12:26
Agreed! Reachable targets within resources available is good management.



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Southwest Quin (IP Logged)
31 October, 2017 12:35
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Well even under your own analysis we are missing the target and missing it by 1.07 points per game is actually a fair bit.

Sorry I wasn't clear, we are 1.07 point behind top four points required by this stage of the season by 1.07 points in total, not per match.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
RleQuin (IP Logged)
31 October, 2017 13:16
Quote:
DOK
You have to have the kind of resources Saracens have to make a decent fist of the European Cup. Without that and with our injuries, it was never going to work. I got told off last season for saying I'd rather win the euro tin pot than just be cannon fodder in our pool, but it's true!

I have been saying this for ages now.
Give me a trophy win every time - the only good thing about being in the HC is that all our matches are live on TV!
RleQ

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Only Joe Quin (IP Logged)
31 October, 2017 19:15
I reckon there are three criteria for judging impact of injuries on the squad:
- numbers: between 25% and 33% of senior squad injured is normal (no stats, just gut feel). For us, that is between 10 and 14 players. I think we are currently at 12 so normal, when it was 16 it was an issue
- concentration: back row has been our problem for most of the season and we still have 3 out of 6 injured. Lock and hooker have also been problems, especially with Glynn and Ward providing back row cover.
- talisman players : the ones who make the team tick. For me, Horwill, Robshaws, Care and Brown. All there currently although we had a bad spell a few weeks ago.
So definitely injuries have been a valid excuse, but only in the back row currently. The current problems seem more to do with suspensions and disciplinary, is things within our control.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Cookie (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 07:38
I'd say our backs have been unaffected by injuries. We're more than strong enough there with what we've had available.

As for the forwards, we have to accept that a big part of the problem has been suspensions. Not sure it's fair for us to bleat about 6 being missing when 3 of them are suspended.

Furthermore, we had ample time to bring in replacement cover when we knew we'd be without Wallace, Bothma, Chris etc for a considerable amount of time.

We've had a bit of bad luck, but we've compounded it ourselves.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
never sleep (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 09:11
Quote:
Cookie
I'd say our backs have been unaffected by injuries. We're more than strong enough there with what we've had available.
I'm not sure I completely agree - No 10 is the main playmaker in a lot of teams. We have been without ours for all but 10 minutes of one game.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 09:27
Quote:
Cookie
I'd say our backs have been unaffected by injuries. We're more than strong enough there with what we've had available.
As for the forwards, we have to accept that a big part of the problem has been suspensions. Not sure it's fair for us to bleat about 6 being missing when 3 of them are suspended.

Furthermore, we had ample time to bring in replacement cover when we knew we'd be without Wallace, Bothma, Chris etc for a considerable amount of time.

We've had a bit of bad luck, but we've compounded it ourselves.

Think that's a bit harsh to say we've been unaffected in the backs.

We were clearly placing a lot of importance on Catrakilis and Saili, and we've seen practically no minutes from either of them.

We do have decent depth in those positions so it's not been felt as much as with our back-row, but effectively JK has been shorn of two of the players he was hoping would turn things around in the backs.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 10:38
Two of our suspensions are recent. The injuries were surprising in the length of recovery needed. Chis was concussed last season; who thought he'd still be unavailable months later? We've had injuries to Marler, Collier, Robshaw, and more. Botham broke his arm minutes into his first game for the A team. Two hookers are now crocked.

I think we've had injuries in every position in the backs too?

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 10:27
There was certainly a point at which we could name a competitive AP 15 of injured players. I think we've been lucky in that very few of our AP starters have been players who would struggle to make a 23 if everyone was available - perhaps only really Glynn. If Smith hadn't come from nowhere I think it would have been a different story. I hope Sloan will get a chance to play his way back into 1st team contention over the next few weeks.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Cookie (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 11:22
My point is I've never looked at our back line and thought it would struggle. Sure, would have been nice to have Catrikilis and Saili available, but Smith/Roberts/Marchant has been an excellent and constant trio and if Smith hadn't come through we could have claimed to have a bigger problem.

As for the forwards, we started the season without Wallace, Bothma and Chis and knew we wouldn't see them for a couple of months so this shouldn't have been a shock. When we then picked up a couple more injuries and started playing Glynn at 6, that should have rung a very loud alarm bell.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
never sleep (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 11:40
Quote:
Cookie
My point is I've never looked at our back line and thought it would struggle. Sure, would have been nice to have Catrikilis and Saili available, but Smith/Roberts/Marchant has been an excellent and constant trio and if Smith hadn't come through we could have claimed to have a bigger problem.
As for the forwards, we started the season without Wallace, Bothma and Chis and knew we wouldn't see them for a couple of months so this shouldn't have been a shock. When we then picked up a couple more injuries and started playing Glynn at 6, that should have rung a very loud alarm bell.
Sorry to pick this argument apart again Cookie - (I feel that I am continually doing this at the moment) - But, although Bothma was injured in the off season, he was pretty much available to play at the start. Which is why it was a shock that he broke his arm just before the 2nd game of the season. (i.e. in the Monday night's a game). I spoke to Chis at the LI pre-season game and he had actually started training with the team 2 weeks before that - but had then had a headache and realised that he would have to go through the protocols again - but, I think that everyone thought that his return was imminent.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Cookie (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 12:13
Quote:
never sleep
Quote:
Cookie
My point is I've never looked at our back line and thought it would struggle. Sure, would have been nice to have Catrikilis and Saili available, but Smith/Roberts/Marchant has been an excellent and constant trio and if Smith hadn't come through we could have claimed to have a bigger problem.
As for the forwards, we started the season without Wallace, Bothma and Chis and knew we wouldn't see them for a couple of months so this shouldn't have been a shock. When we then picked up a couple more injuries and started playing Glynn at 6, that should have rung a very loud alarm bell.
Sorry to pick this argument apart again Cookie - (I feel that I am continually doing this at the moment) - But, although Bothma was injured in the off season, he was pretty much available to play at the start. Which is why it was a shock that he broke his arm just before the 2nd game of the season. (i.e. in the Monday night's a game). I spoke to Chis at the LI pre-season game and he had actually started training with the team 2 weeks before that - but had then had a headache and realised that he would have to go through the protocols again - but, I think that everyone thought that his return was imminent.

Always happy to be challenged :-)

Agreed on Chis, but when Wallace went down, and with Clifford's injury issues, we were clearly light at 7, especially when we lose Robbo with England (as we probably would have with Jack if he was fit). And Bothma was going to take time to get match for as he's barely played in the past year.

We have finally got in some cover, albeit it would appear to mean Wardy covering 7 rather than an out and out 7 being brought in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2017 12:14 by Cookie.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 12:47
Quote:
Only Joe Quin
I reckon there are three criteria for judging impact of injuries on the squad:
- numbers: between 25% and 33% of senior squad injured is normal (no stats, just gut feel). For us, that is between 10 and 14 players. I think we are currently at 12 so normal, when it was 16 it was an issue
- concentration: back row has been our problem for most of the season and we still have 3 out of 6 injured. Lock and hooker have also been problems, especially with Glynn and Ward providing back row cover.
- talisman players : the ones who make the team tick. For me, Horwill, Robshaws, Care and Brown. All there currently although we had a bad spell a few weeks ago.
So definitely injuries have been a valid excuse, but only in the back row currently. The current problems seem more to do with suspensions and disciplinary, is things within our control.


Love the subtle use of an extra "s"....

I would add that yes our backs have been passable (pun intended) going forward but a little porous in defence.



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 14:07
We were also missing Brown for a few games.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Cookie (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 14:17
Quote:
Jammy Git
We were also missing Brown for a few games.

Yes, but we Aaron Morris as more than adequate cover (great try vs Saints) and further cover in Tim Swiel.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
blucherquin (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 14:23
Quote:
Jammy Git
We were also missing Brown for a few games.

He was certainly missing against Worcester.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
mighty_quin (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 14:49
Don't forget injuries don't just affect who we can put on the field. We might have 23 players "available" but they've been preparing 15 vs 8 all week.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 14:49
I dont think Brown could do much other than make his tackles which he did. Not his fault if he doesnt know where the next gap in our shiite defence is going to occur



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
never sleep (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 16:10
I think also, in Brown's defence, he did stop one certain try. Unfortunately, the TMO ruled that the Wuss player was not in touch when he touched the ball down.
(probably fair enough that the decision went with the attacking team - but nevertheless, harsh on Brown)

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
poorfour (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 16:37
The really tough thing about the back row injuries is that they all happened within the space of a couple of weeks around the start of the season. As we went into the warmup games, Wallace, Chis, Cliff and Bothma were all set to play. 6 weeks later, they were all out - 3 long(ish) term, 1 indefinite.

The start of the season is probably the hardest time to go hunting for cover, as it won't yet be clear who is in form and who might be available.

But we're now going into November, Chis is back, Wallace is due back at Christmas. Bothma is probably close to the point he can be back in training. Clifford at a guess might be able to resume training in late November or early December. It's actually possible that Wallace was the only one injury cover was permitted for as the others could be less than 3 months, and by the time they knew about the status of the others, it may have been too late to get decent cover for Wallace.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 17:44
Quote:
never sleep
I think also, in Brown's defence, he did stop one certain try. Unfortunately, the TMO ruled that the Wuss player was not in touch when he touched the ball down.
(probably fair enough that the decision went with the attacking team - but nevertheless, harsh on Brown)

If Brown had sprinted all the way across instead of jogging initially then he probably would have got the guy into touch no problem.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 19:03
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Jammy Git
We were also missing Brown for a few games.

Yes, but we Aaron Morris as more than adequate cover (great try vs Saints) and further cover in Tim Swiel.

Morris had a couple of pony performances and Swiel can fill a shirt at 15, but...



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 20:28
Morris is out until new year. Chisholm snr is the man

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Cookie (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 22:36
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Jammy Git
We were also missing Brown for a few games.

Yes, but we Aaron Morris as more than adequate cover (great try vs Saints) and further cover in Tim Swiel.

Morris had a couple of pony performances and Swiel can fill a shirt at 15, but...

Must have been watching different games regarding Morris. Plenty said he should have kept the shirt when Brownie came back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2017 23:29 by Cookie.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 23:35
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Jammy Git
We were also missing Brown for a few games.

Yes, but we Aaron Morris as more than adequate cover (great try vs Saints) and further cover in Tim Swiel.

Morris had a couple of pony performances and Swiel can fill a shirt at 15, but...

Must have been watching different games regarding Morris. Plenty said he should have kept the short when Brownie came back.

I thought he played very well.

 
Re: Is it really that bad!?
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
01 November, 2017 23:35
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Jammy Git
We were also missing Brown for a few games.

Yes, but we Aaron Morris as more than adequate cover (great try vs Saints) and further cover in Tim Swiel.

Morris had a couple of pony performances and Swiel can fill a shirt at 15, but...

Must have been watching different games regarding Morris. Plenty said he should have kept the shirt when Brownie came back.

Yeah "a couple" is wrong, thinking about it. But his Saints performance was a lot better than his Sale one IMO.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis


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