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England vs Argentina.
Hellequin (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 14:59
Pretty meh after 15 mins England 6-3 Argentina.
Actually agree with commentators Underhill looking really good at 7. Much better than Haskell.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Hellequin (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 15:08
Mike Brown taken out taking a high ball landing on his head, yellow for Argentina player. Brown not returning to the field.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Hellequin (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 15:10
Try England, Hughes in the right side corner good play by Ford and Vunipola in the build up, conversion missed off the post.

11-3



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2017 15:11 by Hellequin.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
WellingQuin (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 15:10
Hope Brown is ok, wasn't a very nice landing.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
RocQuin (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 15:37
Looked a potentially serious blow on the head for Mike Brown.

Hope hes alright

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Man from LA (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 15:37
Nice to see the golden boy being indulged as a water-boy after not being picked. Everyone else is told to sit in the stands but not him. He hasn't been missed as England have played no worse than usual and Ford has looked a better player in his last 3 games for England without Farrell next to him.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Hellequin (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 15:54
Quote:
Man from LA
Nice to see the golden boy being indulged as a water-boy after not being picked. Everyone else is told to sit in the stands but not him. He hasn't been missed as England have played no worse than usual and Ford has looked a better player in his last 3 games for England without Farrell next to him.

All 3 against development teams against Argies though, would rather have Farrell at 12 with Ford 10 as with the 6 nations and Slade on the bench to cover either. Gives creativity at 10 but a more solid kicker as well. Means Daly can be cover for 12-15 giving more options for replacements.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 16:27
I must have missed something. Wasn't Hughes banned?

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Stooperman (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 16:13
Its all a bit meh so far this game isn't it?

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Hellequin (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 16:14
Hughes ban was due to finish before this game and was made before the squad announcement, Marlers original decision would mean no availability but the review decision was after squad selection.

Having said about Farrells ability earlier he could be under pressure from Lozowski for England and Sarries.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 16:48
Ah yes, I recall. Hughes got the same ban as Joe, but the panel decided Joe's should start a week later, or something like that.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 16:32
Quote:
RocQuin
Looked a potentially serious blow on the head for Mike Brown.
Hope hes alright

Walking around and smiling after the game...

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Hellequin (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 16:34
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Quote:
RocQuin
Looked a potentially serious blow on the head for Mike Brown.
Hope hes alright

Walking around and smiling after the game...

Must have been concussed then

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
The Bard (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 17:40
I do hope he is OK, it looked a very nasty landing. I felt sorry for the Argentinian player, as he was clearly being illegally blocked by an England player which caused his jump for the ball to be interfered with.
I had a horrible feeling it was going to be a red card the way things were looking for a minute.
Hopefully Mike will be back for the annual shoot-out with Alex Goode in a few weeks!

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 18:06
That was truly dire from england. Why cant slade perform for england? Played like billy twelvetrees. Mako man of the match when our pack got reamed. He pulled back a pass in a training ground move stuart.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 19:11
Once Farrell's back we'll be fine.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
TeddingtonQuin (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 19:58
Quote:
RodneyRegis
That was truly dire from england. Why cant slade perform for england? Played like billy twelvetrees. Mako man of the match when our pack got reamed. He pulled back a pass in a training ground move stuart.

T'was on Skyacens weren't it? That dipstick Barnes.....

Underhil was my MoTM



West Stand, Block FD, Row S
@JT075 #COYQ

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
1908 (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 22:03
Slade can't perform because England have 2 9's who give a slow and dreadful service as well as a pedestrian back row who can't supply quick ball. Slade plays his best rugby at 13. Farrell, Te'o and Slade would be a good midfield.
Would play Farrell, Slade and Joseph against Australia. We know what the Ford/Farrell axis brings. The AI's are perfect for finding out what other combinations can bring to the table.
Would even think about Simmonds at 8 against Australia .Itoje and Launchberry in engine row. Lawes, Simmonds and Robshaw/Underhill in back row. Anybody but Care or Youngs at 9.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 22:26
Care gave good quick ball, hence we finally made breaks when he came on.

Playing out of position does not excuse 3 woeful passes in prime attacks. I like slade, and im sure hed come good if he got game time, bit he won't if he fluffs his lines every time he puts an england shirt on.

Were going ro need more than tacklers to be a decent side. Underhill offwrs very little else.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
MrOther (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 22:29
Quote:
The Bard
I do hope he is OK, it looked a very nasty landing. I felt sorry for the Argentinian player, as he was clearly being illegally blocked by an England player which caused his jump for the ball to be interfered with.
I had a horrible feeling it was going to be a red card the way things were looking for a minute.
Hopefully Mike will be back for the annual shoot-out with Alex Goode in a few weeks!

I don't understand how it could be yellow. It was either fair competition for the ball in which Mike Brown came of worse (which I think would have been a fair decision) or it was a red card.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
The Bard (IP Logged)
11 November, 2017 22:53
Quote:
MrOther
Quote:
The Bard
I do hope he is OK, it looked a very nasty landing. I felt sorry for the Argentinian player, as he was clearly being illegally blocked by an England player which caused his jump for the ball to be interfered with.
I had a horrible feeling it was going to be a red card the way things were looking for a minute.
Hopefully Mike will be back for the annual shoot-out with Alex Goode in a few weeks!

I don't understand how it could be yellow. It was either fair competition for the ball in which Mike Brown came of worse (which I think would have been a fair decision) or it was a red card.

Quite agree. The yellow card appeared to be a compromise. Unfortunately the officiating seemed as error strewn as the rugby.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Dave L (IP Logged)
12 November, 2017 08:09
Quote:
The Bard
Quote:
MrOther
Quote:
The Bard
I do hope he is OK, it looked a very nasty landing. I felt sorry for the Argentinian player, as he was clearly being illegally blocked by an England player which caused his jump for the ball to be interfered with.
I had a horrible feeling it was going to be a red card the way things were looking for a minute.
Hopefully Mike will be back for the annual shoot-out with Alex Goode in a few weeks!

I don't understand how it could be yellow. It was either fair competition for the ball in which Mike Brown came of worse (which I think would have been a fair decision) or it was a red card.

Quite agree. The yellow card appeared to be a compromise. Unfortunately the officiating seemed as error strewn as the rugby.

Agreed with all that.

It was one of my least pleasurable trips to HQ. The game just didnt get going, nor did the crowd and I had an awful journey there.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
12 November, 2017 09:58
Well as they mostly referee on outcome not intent it should have been a double red card, a life ban and exile to Truro.



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
12 November, 2017 10:24
Quote:
Scaramouche
Well as they mostly referee on outcome not intent it should have been a double red card, a life ban and exile to Truro.

That's harsh. Truro?

Now if he'd flicked water as well it could even have justified Padstow.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
MrOther (IP Logged)
12 November, 2017 11:31
Quote:
Dave L
Quote:
The Bard
Quote:
MrOther
Quote:
The Bard
I do hope he is OK, it looked a very nasty landing. I felt sorry for the Argentinian player, as he was clearly being illegally blocked by an England player which caused his jump for the ball to be interfered with.
I had a horrible feeling it was going to be a red card the way things were looking for a minute.
Hopefully Mike will be back for the annual shoot-out with Alex Goode in a few weeks!

I don't understand how it could be yellow. It was either fair competition for the ball in which Mike Brown came of worse (which I think would have been a fair decision) or it was a red card.

Quite agree. The yellow card appeared to be a compromise. Unfortunately the officiating seemed as error strewn as the rugby.

Agreed with all that.

It was one of my least pleasurable trips to HQ. The game just didnt get going, nor did the crowd and I had an awful journey there.

Yes, what was it with the crowd. With us?

My son says the crowd was responding to the flat performance of the players, but we didn't seem to be up for it as a crowd even before kick-off (before the players had had the chance to dampen any enthusiasm we might have had). There was no big welcome as they came out of the tunnel. We gave a half-hearted rendition of God Save the Queen and then we settled down to see if anything remotely exciting might happen.

After twenty minutes, hearing my own voice scream out "come on England" in a near vacuum become embarrassing and I shut up. All that was left was the tedious monologue of the twerp behind me regaling his guests with detailed stories of how wonderfully well his funeral undertaking business was going. Morgue within a morgue. If he's there again next week, I will have to tell him to shut up and watch the rugby. Drove me crazy.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
12 November, 2017 13:09
Good to see that Mike Brown was looking better at the end of the game.

Do we need greater clarity from the lawmakers? I can see justification that it wasn't even a penalty as Tucalet made contact with the ball (having also been impeded by Watson). I can also see justification that it was red, as he hooked Brown's arm causing him to fall on his shoulder and head. I can't see that it was a (compromise) yellow.

Perhaps we need to ban the one arm attempt - "hooking" the ball back, insisting that any player competing for a kick must have a genuine chance of making a two handed catch? And better police the blocking of the chasers.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Fursty (IP Logged)
12 November, 2017 14:08
Does Underhill do anything other than tackle?

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
WoTQuin (IP Logged)
12 November, 2017 15:16
The issue on the Brown tackle in the the air is that the guy was reckless. I read in the ST that he only had eyes on the ball, that to me is no longer acceptable. Player safety is the priority and it was very noticeable that Elliot Daly a year on from his on red card did not challenge in the air on at least three occasions because he looked first and decided that he was not favourite for the ball. This is the result that the lawmakers rightly want. The Pumas full back was reckless and I do not understand how the expert pundits do not understand this.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
1908 (IP Logged)
12 November, 2017 18:33
Next time I'm delivering fish in Padstow I'm going to ransack your second home, Quinky.
Fish guts over the carpet will do for a start...

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
DOK (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 08:56
Brown incident here

On review I think he hooks Brown and applies force to push him towards the ground. It's a straight red for me.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
giffardfs (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 09:26
Penalty at most. Fair competition for the ball.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 09:35
That's the thing. It's either a Penalty only (Fair Competition) or a Red Card (MB lands on his head neck, & there's evidence of a pull on his arm to cause his rotation). A Yellow simply shouldn't be considered.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
ChipsteadQuin (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 09:55
Quote:
Man from LA
Nice to see the golden boy being indulged as a water-boy after not being picked. Everyone else is told to sit in the stands but not him. He hasn't been missed as England have played no worse than usual and Ford has looked a better player in his last 3 games for England without Farrell next to him.

I was a little surprised by this as well , but in the TV commentary it made the point that England don't have an 'attack' coach as such , that job is taking by EJ himself and he rates Farrell as one of the best readers on the game .

He said most attacking plays were discussed between Jones Farrell and Ford , with Farrell making most of the on field calls

If that is the case then it makes sense for him to be miked up communicating to other coaches and Ford.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
adquin (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 11:22
Agree with Giffardfs, penalty at most. The Argentinian player went for the ball with both hands / arms and would arguably have got to it had he not been blocked by Watson.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
never sleep (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 11:27
Watching it real time while sitting in the stand, it looked like a red as it looked as though he pulled Mike down. I didn't have a ref-link - so I don't know what the mitigating factors were.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 12:19
Again I say, either the referees are going to referee the outcome not the intent (because you cannot know what the intent is ) or we continue with this mess of a decision making process.



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 12:21
Quote:
1908
Next time I'm delivering fish in Padstow I'm going to ransack your second home, Quinky.
Fish guts over the carpet will do for a start...

Oh dear Squiffy. Looks like another Stein on your character.



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Fursty (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 12:23
Quote:
Scaramouche
Again I say, either the referees are going to referee the outcome not the intent (because you cannot know what the intent is ) or we continue with this mess of a decision making process.

The guidance to referees is very clear on this matter and the the sanction should be outcome based - once the referee had decided that there had been an offence then it should have been a red card given that Mike landed on his head/neck.

For what it's worth at the time I thought penalty only (for fair but mis-timed challenge) - on viewing it again I think he does hook Brown's arm and so probably should have been a red.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 13:26
He competes for the ball and then pulls him down by the arm. We see it a lot in lineouts when players lose the contest.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 13:35
Quote:
Jammy Git
He competes for the ball and then pulls him down by the arm. We see it a lot in lineouts when players lose the contest.

Thing is that the laws are interpreted slightly different in a line-out than in contesting for a high ball. First, the two contesting players are being lifted by their own players. Second, there are specific laws for line-outs that don't apply to high balls (e.g. taking out supporting players, closing the gap, etc), and third, it's rare that a player will end up landing on his head/neck, as his own supporting players are there to bring him back down, whereas 1/2 players "free -jumping" without support only need to contact in the air for one or other of them to be flipped to land on his neck or head quite easily.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 13:57
All that is true, but that doesn't change what actually happened smiling smiley It IS more dangerous to pull someone over like that outside of the lineout because there's a higher chance of an uncontrolled fall onto the head or neck, I agree - I was just separating the fact that the initial contest was legal from the fact that what the player then did was extremely dangerous.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 14:03
Quote:
Scaramouche
Quote:
1908
Next time I'm delivering fish in Padstow I'm going to ransack your second home, Quinky.
Fish guts over the carpet will do for a start...

Oh dear Squiffy. Looks like another Stein on your character.

Silly of me to Rock the boat...

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 14:19
(Sm92)

Rodders is watching.....



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
1908 (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 18:03
Don't take the p***

I have a deformed face and punch like a mule. I'm effin gurnard.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 19:10
Quote:
1908
Don't take the p***
I have a deformed face and punch like a mule. I'm effin gurnard.

I just like to get the thumbs up from Cornish people.

All 7 thumbs...

thumbs downthumbs downthumbs downthumbs downthumbs downthumbs downthumbs down winking smileygrinning smiley

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
1908 (IP Logged)
13 November, 2017 23:05
I keep telling you, Quinky. I'm a Scillonian.

SC on our fishing boats means Superior Cornish. I know you like me really. Your plaice or mine?

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 10:23
Quote:
1908
I keep telling you, Quinky. I'm a Scillonian.
SC on our fishing boats means Superior Cornish. I know you like me really. Your plaice or mine?

If that's similar to a Kardashian, it's "On yer pike!".

But of course I like you... I can tell you have sole...

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 11:03
You're a dab hand at this pun thing, QK...

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 12:54
So referee the outcome not the lead up or intent or anything else I reckon. How else can we sort out this Cod awful mess?



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 12:58
We'd best stop before Rodney starts carping on about puns...

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
quin_jon (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 13:11
The tenchion is unbearable

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 17:18
I am sure RR is already seething on his perch

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
ssdudley (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 17:43
All together now, to the Tuna "Come all wihin".... Pun all without, Pun all within, Eel not sea nothing like the Quinky Kin! Now can we stop 😃

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 18:50
Quote:
ssdudley
All together now, to the Tuna "Come all wihin".... Pun all without, Pun all within, Eel not sea nothing like the Quinky Kin! Now can we stop 😃

But I'm having a whale of a time!

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Saintquin (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 18:51
If two players make a genuine attempt to catch a high ball how come it's only one player who takes the blame if it ends badly for the other. Surly it should be up to both to not endanger either!
To me it was a penalty only but, if the referee decides it warrants a card then that card should have been a red as per the outcome.



Harlequins, (was once) probably the best rugby club in the world!
(Sm115)(Sm115)(Sm115)

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Camquin (IP Logged)
14 November, 2017 21:53
Oddly there is a debate on this on Rugbyrefs.com.
Nobody there can see how it came to be yellow either.

From some angles it looks like Truculet pulled Mike's arm down, which would be a penalty, and protocols then say as Mike landed on his head - red.

From others he competed for the ball, and even had hands on it just before Mike did and then the arms got entangled accidentally. Fair contest play on.

Both have proponents.

I do hope Mike recover's fully and soon.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 08:27
So, to summarise - no card, just a penalty (EU Fin), a yellow (fin tuna) or a red (snapper)...

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 12:07
Pun-y attempt at a play on words. You need to scale back your efforts.



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
quin_jon (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 13:14
I declare this thread ofishally off topic

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 15:59
Am I herring you correctly?

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
quin_jon (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 16:16
Yes, let minnow if you need any assistance

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 16:25
Utter codswallop - this is turning into a wrasse to the bottom...

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
T-Bone (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 16:44
Quote:
Camquin
Oddly there is a debate on this on Rugbyrefs.com.
Nobody there can see how it came to be yellow either.

From some angles it looks like Truculet pulled Mike's arm down, which would be a penalty, and protocols then say as Mike landed on his head - red.

From others he competed for the ball, and even had hands on it just before Mike did and then the arms got entangled accidentally. Fair contest play on.

Both have proponents.

I do hope Mike recover's fully and soon.

Ignoring the morons, Nigel Owens was on Brian Moore's podcast speaking about these tackles (he couldn't comment on a specific incident / decision by a fellow ref). I still wasn't particularly clearly even after listening to him. Sounded like they can take into account anything which mitigates the offending player's actions, such as being blocked in his chase, but I wasn't clear if that would mean the offence was accidental rather than reckless, or still reckless, but not 100% his fault. All rather confusing. Owens was saying that in their analysis they now see fewer mid-air collisions as players will now err on the side of caution, even when they have a decent chance of competing, and will just wait for the player to land, smash him in the tackle and hope for a turnover. I guess that's what the powers that be were after, but seems a bit unfair that players now have less opportunity to properly compete in the air

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 17:36
Seriously (ignoring myself), would making it illegal to jump for the ball (other than at line outs) from kicks/kick offs help to reduce such mid air collisions? Or making it an option to call a mark (while on ground) anywhere on the pitch - this might have been mooted before, I think I recall.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 22:46
I won't ignore you Bolly... That would fin-ish it for me.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
1908 (IP Logged)
15 November, 2017 22:39
Went down with a stomach bug after travelling by train and eating in their buffet car. Must have been the brill.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 02:27
I'll say no moron this subject as I love big steaks.



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 08:27
Give Scabby an opening, he'll fillet.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
1908 (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 16:32
Does he prefer rump over a bit of skirt...

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
16 November, 2017 17:57
Behave... you'll get us all the chop!

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
MrOther (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 09:39
Quote:
1908
Does he prefer rump over a bit of skirt...

Other way round.

He prefers skirt over a bit of rump.

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 10:21
Quote:
MrOther
Quote:
1908
Does he prefer rump over a bit of skirt...

Other way round.

He prefers skirt over a bit of rump.

Not that it's a rasher decision...

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 14:35
I call this meat ing officially over.



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: England vs Argentina.
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
17 November, 2017 16:10
Quote:
Scaramouche
I call this meat ing officially over.

Don't worry... veal meet again...


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