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Re: Harlequins long term vision for Twickenham Stoop
Samquin (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 09:37
Quote:
Uncle Arthur
Quote:
Cookie
What am I missing here? Why does anyone think we'll move out of Twickenham? Is it just because we didn't say we're definitely staying in Twickenham?

Harlequins are not moving from the Stoop as the plan is to buy the council yard behind the South Stand. The recent discussion about moving out of Twickenham is while the New Stoop is being rebuilt.

I thought there was a problem with there being a listed building on the Council Depot site. I know it's a tatty industrial building but it would likely delay any future redevelopment.

 
Re: Harlequins long term vision for Twickenham Stoop
raedarius (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 10:43
There is a "building of townscape merit" on the depot site.

listed buildings in richmond borough

Langhorn Drive Twickenham TW2 7SG Council Depot Building, Craneford Way 06/09/13 13/00119/BTM

Listed in 2013, but can't find any details other than the reference number above.

 
Re: Harlequins long term vision for Twickenham Stoop
raedarius (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 10:50
Additional:

Probably the Old Pump House:

2005 planning guidance document

". Protecting Heritage - The following buildings/structures of merit should be retained and restored and their settings respected and improved, this will be secured as part of the planning obligation(s):-
• Old Pump House (building of townscape merit)
• Section of wall between the two Craneford Way playing fields with original water culverts (Subject to further English Heritage advice).
• Cobbled section of road leading to the Council depot through the former Mereway Allotments."

 
Re: Harlequins long term vision for Twickenham Stoop
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 11:58
If it's only a "Building of Townscape Merit", that is lower on the scale than an actual Listed Building such as Heatham House. Even Listed Buildings will have some flexibility about them depending on what Grade they are. My parents used to have a listed building (an old bake-house with brick ovens) in their garden. When they sold the house, the new owner decided to do extensive modifications to the bake-house, and there was no problem with planning permission.

The whole situation is one of playing politics at a local level:

The Club want to build a bigger stadium, with seating up to 25k potentially. You can't achieve that on the current footprint. If you look at the screengrab I posted earlier, it *would* be possible on the site of the council facility just south of the Stoop as it is now.
It's easier to get planning permission for a new stadium if there's benefits that can be used by local residents. Hence the idea about community sports space. If you can add in things like hotel, education, or conference facilities, even better.
If you can move the Pump House & include them into the community area of the site, then you can tick off the "maintaining heritage" checkbox.
If the council are looking to move their services from the current area south of the Stoop (it's marked as working at significantly under capacity in that 2005 document) then by working with them to "shuffle" things around between the two sites, they may be able to commit some funding to the community areas of the new site, sharing the burden with us and the College.
If residents, particularly in Rosecroft gardens, are brought on board early with some input into the community area of the plot, they will be more likely to back the plans going forward.

As for timescales, my gut says it would be 2019/20 at earliest before anything physically happened. Even then, it's more likely that we wouldn't see games moved until the season after that...

 
Re: Harlequins long term vision for Twickenham Stoop
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 12:28
Here's Bath's Management release on their new plans (for comparison to ours):-

Quote:
Bath RFC

Stadium Development - Update

Dear

I’m delighted to inform you that we are now in a position to update you regarding our ambition for developing a new stadium at the Rec.

As you are aware, for much of 2017, we have been listening to the people that live and work here in Bath as well as you our core supporters. This is a complex project, of huge importance to all involved and we believe that we will get it right if we all work together.

This is the most robust ‘pre-design’ consultation process the Club has undertaken regarding redevelopment at the Rec and we are proud to share the findings with you.

I want to thank you for your support over this time and those of you that have taken time to contribute to this phase. The results are of huge value to us as we move into the design process.

Our ambition has always been to create the most incredible place in the world to watch rugby, and we continue to work hard on delivering this. We want to retain everything that is so special about rugby at the Rec, whilst also providing the best possible facilities for you to enjoy matchdays.

It is also clear that this project is not just about rugby - there is a unique opportunity to create a destination which revitalises the riverside, which benefits and enhances the community and encourages healthier living through accessible and inclusive sporting participation.

Rugby is at the core of this project, but it is also about riverside regeneration and social legacy, and it is clear that this is a project of significance for the City of Bath and our community.

For these reasons we have created a standalone project identity – Stadium for Bath – which brings together Bath Rugby, Bath Rugby Foundation and Arena 1865. Stadium for Bath is about creating a new home for Bath Rugby and an amazing place to watch and enjoy rugby, it is about creating a profoundly positive social legacy for the City of Bath and our community, and it is about providing a brilliant design solution for this unique location.

You can find out more via our dedicated project website www.stadiumforbath.com and also download ‘Exploring the Opportunity’ – the formal document which includes the findings from the pre-design listening phase, in addition to the overall vision for redevelopment; consideration of the unique challenges of the site; thoughts on opportunities offered by redevelopment and the key parameters for the appointment of a lead architect and design team.

We are still listening

As we progress further on our design journey we feel that it is important that we can continue to call on our core supporters to garner your views.

We have therefore set up a ‘Stadium Development Supporters Steering Group’, which is basically a group of supporters who will help advise us and ‘keep us honest’ throughout the stadium design process. This group comprises core supporters (mainly Season Ticket Holders, including a number with specific accessibility needs) who were selected at the start of this process to provide a cross-section of supporter views, and who subsequently fed into and contributed to the pre-design listening workshops.

The purpose of the group will be to discuss key elements of stadium development that matter to supporters, such as detailed design and supporter experience considerations, community impact projects, and future pricing. We intend to rotate the membership of this group over time and details regarding that will be provided in the future.

We know this project is important to every single one of our supporters and there will be further opportunities to consult with us throughout the design process. You can also get in touch, at any time, via our new website and leave feedback with our stadium project team, should you wish to do so.

We believe there is an opportunity to create something exceptional in the heart of Bath, something which we can all be a part of and which we can all be incredibly proud of.

Thank you again for your continued support and I look forward to contacting you again in the New Year with news of the appointment of a lead architect and design team.

Yours sincerely,

Tarquin McDonald

 
Re: Harlequins long term vision for Twickenham Stoop
Fearless Fred (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 12:36
Quote:
Bolly-Quin

Tarquin McDonald

Tarquin? Really? He's certainly playing up to certain stereotypes!

 
Re: Harlequins long term vision for Twickenham Stoop
MrOther (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 12:57
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Here's Bath's Management release on their new plans (for comparison to ours):-
Quote:
Bath RFC

Stadium Development - Update

Dear

I’m delighted to inform you that we are now in a position to update you regarding our ambition for developing a new stadium at the Rec.

As you are aware, for much of 2017, we have been listening to the people that live and work here in Bath as well as you our core supporters. This is a complex project, of huge importance to all involved and we believe that we will get it right if we all work together.

This is the most robust ‘pre-design’ consultation process the Club has undertaken regarding redevelopment at the Rec and we are proud to share the findings with you.

I want to thank you for your support over this time and those of you that have taken time to contribute to this phase. The results are of huge value to us as we move into the design process.

Our ambition has always been to create the most incredible place in the world to watch rugby, and we continue to work hard on delivering this. We want to retain everything that is so special about rugby at the Rec, whilst also providing the best possible facilities for you to enjoy matchdays.

It is also clear that this project is not just about rugby - there is a unique opportunity to create a destination which revitalises the riverside, which benefits and enhances the community and encourages healthier living through accessible and inclusive sporting participation.

Rugby is at the core of this project, but it is also about riverside regeneration and social legacy, and it is clear that this is a project of significance for the City of Bath and our community.

For these reasons we have created a standalone project identity – Stadium for Bath – which brings together Bath Rugby, Bath Rugby Foundation and Arena 1865. Stadium for Bath is about creating a new home for Bath Rugby and an amazing place to watch and enjoy rugby, it is about creating a profoundly positive social legacy for the City of Bath and our community, and it is about providing a brilliant design solution for this unique location.

You can find out more via our dedicated project website www.stadiumforbath.com and also download ‘Exploring the Opportunity’ – the formal document which includes the findings from the pre-design listening phase, in addition to the overall vision for redevelopment; consideration of the unique challenges of the site; thoughts on opportunities offered by redevelopment and the key parameters for the appointment of a lead architect and design team.

We are still listening

As we progress further on our design journey we feel that it is important that we can continue to call on our core supporters to garner your views.

We have therefore set up a ‘Stadium Development Supporters Steering Group’, which is basically a group of supporters who will help advise us and ‘keep us honest’ throughout the stadium design process. This group comprises core supporters (mainly Season Ticket Holders, including a number with specific accessibility needs) who were selected at the start of this process to provide a cross-section of supporter views, and who subsequently fed into and contributed to the pre-design listening workshops.

The purpose of the group will be to discuss key elements of stadium development that matter to supporters, such as detailed design and supporter experience considerations, community impact projects, and future pricing. We intend to rotate the membership of this group over time and details regarding that will be provided in the future.

We know this project is important to every single one of our supporters and there will be further opportunities to consult with us throughout the design process. You can also get in touch, at any time, via our new website and leave feedback with our stadium project team, should you wish to do so.

We believe there is an opportunity to create something exceptional in the heart of Bath, something which we can all be a part of and which we can all be incredibly proud of.

Thank you again for your continued support and I look forward to contacting you again in the New Year with news of the appointment of a lead architect and design team.

Yours sincerely,

Tarquin McDonald

Clearly written by someone (TarQuin or not) who has the advantage and the handicap of believing his own blather.

 
Re: Harlequins long term vision for Twickenham Stoop
GrubbyQuin (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 17:16
Go Tarquin. Why use 10 words when 150 will do?

 
Re: Harlequins long term vision for Twickenham Stoop
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 23:00
Quote:
Scaramouche
Why on earth would you choose to keep the concourses in front of the stands? The people who sit in the lower levels of the Stands are constantly bothered and interrupted by others wandering around during the game, standing chatting, interrupting the view of the pitch, generally being rather inconsiderate and oblivious to what was happening on the pitch.Make them walk BEHIND the stands if they want to spend their dollar on food and booze to support the Stoop inc project and exchange tips on the next best investment to make.

And widen the oitch while you're at it.

 
Re: Harlequins long term vision for Twickenham Stoop
InsertQuinsPunHere (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 09:26
Re Bath statement: eight paragraphs before the plans are even mentioned. And when they are, there's no substance at all. At least ours was concise!

Re concourse: as a member who previously used to sit in one of the "inconvenienced" seats, I'm really in favour of keeping the concourse. It was a choice to sit there, and I thoroughly enjoyed it for five seasons. Despite the people walking in front of me during the game, and sometimes stopping in my way.

I feel that part of the reason the Stoop is such a welcoming stadium is the feeling of closeness with the pitch, and the ability to stand right next to it (sometimes on it) after a game.

Isn't the world wonderful that we all enjoy different things for different reasons ;-)

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