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At what point is enough, enough?
claphamquin (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 00:09
We sit here after 9 games in 10th. Short of something spectacular, that will remain after tomorrow.

For me, that is simply not acceptable. Iím bored of excuses as itís the same for everyone (yes, it wasnít Bathís first XV we played last week).

Itís 80 mins tomorrow to front up otherwise we need changes in coaching/playing staff for me.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but JK needs a win for me.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Months KYT (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 04:31
Careful ,you will be accused of spreading disillusionment .. but you are 100 % correct

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
blucherquin (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 07:40
Iím yet to become a fan of Kingston, but how would that work exactly? Weíre halfway through the season and unless you think Mapletoft and Easter are the answer as opposed to the cause of our problems - how do we get to the end of the season?

Weíre bacially out of Europe, and if we lose today the gap to the top 4 will be pretty much insurmountable - so canít see the point ditching him until thereís time to find a genuine replacement.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Snowman (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 07:48
Which the club werenít able to secure last time they went through the process

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Cookie (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 07:49
That's no excuse not to do it. As you say, the season is practically written off already. Why not start building for next year? There are options as detailed elsewhere. And not sure that picture would dramatically change in the summer.

As also detailed elsewhere, MT/NE/CO are part of the problem and would need to go as well if JK is released.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
SouthCoastQuin (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 08:06
Completely agree, we couldnt secure anyone last time so what makes the jobanymore attractive

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 08:14
this is such a weird argument. What ever makes a job attractive? We didn't secure anybody last time because we were too tight.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Cookie (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 08:31
Get Ben Ryan in. Lives locally, has fresh ideas and a proven track record, albeit in Sevens. Garland spoke to him about working with the Lions, so he clearly has something about him.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 08:32
Even if we stay above Irish and limp into next season Iíll next year be any different. Itís. RWC year so international or fringe international players will be distracted, our senior players are getting older and less driven.

Why do we think the coaches will be anymore effective.

There must be young ambitious coaches around that would jump at the chance to turn Quins around. What about Joe Worsley or a tempting offer to Alex Sanderson away from Sarries?

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Stooperman (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 09:02
Well lets put my head above the parapet to be shot at by the usual suspects.

If ringfencing the premiership takes place, and its looking increasingly likely that it will, premiership rugby will become a franchised sports operation very similar to the NFL.

Many teams in the NFL, including my own favourite Washington Redskins are quite content to drag on season after season with hardly any prospect of success as long as the commercial side of the operation continues to haul in bucketfuls of dollars. There is almost no loyalty from the franchise operators to fans, for example the San Diego Chargers have just upped sticks and moved to LA.

Four recent examples (Wasps move to Coventry,Sarries move to Barnet, Irish's move to Reading and London Welsh's move to Oxford) indicate that this is a trend from which rugby is not immune.

Harlequins major investor is now a far east pension fund. I very much doubt whether any of the pension fund board have been to The Stoop unless it was on a scouting mission to see how many flats they can build on it.

Ellis's previous job was in social housing...see the connection yet? That's why he was brought in, to get the necessary permissions because he knows how councils work!

So to cut a long story short, Harlequins RFC has ceased to exist as it was in its previous incarnation. It is now a sports marketing operation designed to sell replica shirts and tat whilst awaiting planning permission.

Nobody within the senior management gives two hoots about the team on the field, because it simply has no relevance to the bottom line. We are destined to remain a middle of the road team for the foreseeable future.

Of course you may disregard all of this, because its all just a fanciful conspircay theory & every week we see evidence of our committed board's enthusiastic attempts to reinvigorate the playing side of the club and re-engage with the fans.

Rant over.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Only Joe Quin (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 09:12
Firing the guy at the top as a solution to underperformance has a very mixed record. I have no idea what JKís plan was when he took on the role or how he is doing against it. I hope the board do.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
MrOther (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 09:22
Quote:
Only Joe Quin
Firing the guy at the top as a solution to underperformance has a very mixed record. I have no idea what JKís plan was when he took on the role or how he is doing against it. I hope the board do.

Iíd vote for the uncertainty of an action which has a mixed record of success in preference to the certainty of demonstrable failure.

(Yes, 10th in the league is demonstrable failure.)

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Adi Nako (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 09:26
I can't really see a win against Sarries as changing much. It didn't last season. Maybe if we beat them and back it up with a double win over Ulster will we have demonstrated something. Otherwise an unlikely win against Sarries is just that, an unlikely win. Even the worst teams in the premiership occasionally cause upsets.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
MrOther (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 09:36
Quote:
Stooperman
Well lets put my head above the parapet to be shot at by the usual suspects.
...
Rant over.

Largely sound analysis, I fear.

But hereís a thought. If we go down, the speculators will find themselves servicing significantly larger operating losses while they wait for the property deal to come through.

The performance of the rugby team which happens to operate on their property then becomes an issue they might have an interest in.

Then they might conclude that the cost of recruiting an effective DOR and coaching team was money well spent.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
SiBolton (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 09:38
Jennings and Saville have been to the Stoop and heard on more than one occasion that both Harlequins fans. And thankfully they have stuck with Quins for a longtime
Our defence is second worst in the premiership and thatís where the on pitch problems lie
When is enough enough?
A good question, Iím sure that if we get beaten today there will be load of the usual type of posts/ threads, and from whatís been seen nobody knows the answer
And at the end of the day itís down to the owners what happens
But getting rid of all the coaching team with no readily available replacement mid season isnít going to happen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2017 09:40 by SiBolton.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
DOK (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 09:47
It'll be a corporate thing, surely? JK will have targets he agreed at the beginning of the season. He may end up missing some, in which case it'll come down to how good the explanation for the missed targets is. The board (or whoever decides these things) will make a judgement on whether to continue the contract, continue but look for a new DOR or decide to terminate contract immediately and take any financial penalties that incurs.

Our experience of searching for a new DOR last time may affect how keen the club is to go through that process again.

I can't see "position in the league as at 3rd December" being a decider. I assume the targets are top 4 (unlikely but possible target), top 6 (main target) and other (blotting paper down the trousers target).

To pick this game as the decider as to whether he goes or stays just shows a mind made up anyway. You've seen the two teams, read all the stuff about Sarries being a settled side and us a jury rigged concoction. Unless JK pulls a rabbit out the hat then he should go? That's just silly. I am fully expecting a massacre today.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 10:10
Please do not start this all up again, its getting a bit repetitive. I agree with Stooperman. It's always been about a property deal since day one. HRFC is a major revenue stream to serve Stoop inc and will be looked after as such. Once/If we become ridiculously non profitable after The Stoop inc has been created we may well be on our toes. Who knows?



Illegitimi non carborundum

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 11:40
I think a drop down the league was always on the cards given the fixture list. I think by the end of the season we'll have moved back up to at least 6th.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Nev's Left Boot (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 11:48
I suppose the answer to the question relates to your expectation?

I hoped for Quins to make top 6 this season, so at the moment, im not at the end of my tether.

I do think the thing that JK needs to do, is to do something about defence
a) change the coach
b) get another coach in to support NE
c) leave it

if option c is his answer then, if Qins miss out on expectation he needs to take the flak, at the moment, he can still do something.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
RleQuin (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 12:50
Don't forget, it's not JKs team until the end of next season!
Nothing will happen until then and with all the injuries he has another excuse to use week in, week out.
RleQ

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:33
Quote:
claphamquin

Itís 80 mins tomorrow to front up otherwise we need changes in coaching/playing staff for me.

By your logic, is our coaching team good enough now? I don't think they are, but this shows the danger of basing your opinion on one result.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:41
Well done Quins & JK.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
Prarie Dog (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 17:05
Nothing seems wrong whan you beat Sarries. The wheel of success turns sometimes fast, sometimes slowly. If you think your team will always have success you need to have a reality check.

Great win and thanks.



Just a farm team from Devon.
We know who we be!

Da' nzho!
Pawel Vygot.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
claphamquin (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 18:50
Well front up we did!

Brilliant effort and just shows what is possible. Danny Care superb but a great team effort.

For me personally (and everyone is different) that gives JK and the rest of management until the end of the season to demonstrate we really are moving in the right direction. P10 and won 50%, hardly spectacular but not a disaster either.

Letís get some momentum going in the right direction!

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 21:00
Yeo, no excuses now!

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
blucherquin (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 07:36
Quote:
Kent Fan
Even if we stay above Irish and limp into next season Iíll next year be any different. Itís. RWC year so international or fringe international players will be distracted, our senior players are getting older and less driven.
Why do we think the coaches will be anymore effective.

There must be young ambitious coaches around that would jump at the chance to turn Quins around. What about Joe Worsley or a tempting offer to Alex Sanderson away from Sarries?

Ignore me....was about to say it isn't RWC next year but of course the season runs into 2019....DUH



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2017 07:37 by blucherquin.

 
Re: At what point is enough, enough?
ChipsteadQuin (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 09:03
Quote:
claphamquin
We sit here after 9 games in 10th. Short of something spectacular, that will remain after tomorrow.
For me, that is simply not acceptable. Iím bored of excuses as itís the same for everyone (yes, it wasnít Bathís first XV we played last week).

Itís 80 mins tomorrow to front up otherwise we need changes in coaching/playing staff for me.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but JK needs a win for me.

Sorted smileys with beer


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