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40mins to save JK
Portquin (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 15:54
Thought it couldnt get worse then I watched the first half vs Newcastle...

- 31 tackles missed after 30 mins who knows how many by HT
- 1 backs move in the whole of the half
- If Robshaw wasnt playing we would be 3 tried down
- Ref coaching Sink (prob most input hes had all yr!)
- Visser missin tackles then being caught when he should have finished
- No protection for Smith

I put a lot of time and effort into these well paid players but at the moment it looks like we just met each other....Im horrified to say I support this rabblle

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
23 December, 2017 15:58
You just cant disagree with this!

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Tonbridge Quin (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 16:03
I just feel that every team about us are progressing and moving forward with the exception of Saints (who have now done something about it) and Irish but we're just treading water. The worrying thing is I have seen very little to give me hope for the future.

 
40 mins left for Kingston
Months KYT (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 15:51
First half awful .. this cannot be allowed to continue

 
Re: 40 mins left for Kingston
23 December, 2017 15:53
I must agree but is it just Kingston? We need a real shake up at the top not this old boys club

 
Re: 40 mins left for Kingston
DOK (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 16:13
Two threads merged!

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Months KYT (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 16:54
Good spirit shown in second half , but as I said last week , enough is enough

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Portquin (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 17:24
Better 2nd half but I still cant get that first 30 out of my head. I know D.C. & Hor are a big loss but JK can no longer hide behind injuries. Our attack was totally clueless and lacked any go forward until Cheeseman came on...

I love Sink and Marler but Im so fed up with them...just play the bloody game and if they cant concentrate on their jobs then drop them....nobody should be bigger than the Club.

We will be relegated next year unless we have a complete coaches clear out....will be expensive but relegation will be more costly...

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Dark Pies (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 19:09
All so predictable. Anyone that's watched Quins the last 3-4yrs could have predicted that this would be a half-arsed non-performance.

Didn't see the match but JK's post-match interview writes itself yet again.

"I feel desperately sorry for these guys as we deserved to take something from that"
"Injuries are not an excuse but we have a lot and that's part of my excuse"
"Its a tough place to come and play and we knew it wouldn't be easy"
"They took their chances better than we did"
"We'll move on and focus on our big game next week"

How many did I get?

If we don't smash Saints and bag 5pts next Sat then we can forget Top 6. Top 4 is gone. #COYQ

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 20:05
Not sure why JK’s position is even up for discussion after we crushed the Bristol C team earlier this week.

Such short memories from some people.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 20:27
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Not sure why JK’s position is even up for discussion after we crushed the Bristol C team earlier this week.
Such short memories from some people.

I'm so happy that we agree on things at last.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 20:31
Don't give me problems, give me solutions!


(Sensible ones)



Rodders you p-lonker!

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 20:46
Quote:
Scaramouche
Don't give me problems, give me solutions!

(Sensible ones)

Sack JK.

Appoint Mallinder.

Let Mallinder appoint and sack who he wants in the coaching team.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
The Dead Baron (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 22:16
Surely the first thing to do is clear our the defence coach and bring in someone who actually knows what they are doing. Build on that, and if that means more departures then so be it. But as far as I can see our (current) biggest issue is defence - fix that and we're on the road.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
23 December, 2017 22:22
Quote:
The Dead Baron
Surely the first thing to do is clear our the defence coach and bring in someone who actually knows what they are doing. Build on that, and if that means more departures then so be it. But as far as I can see our (current) biggest issue is defence - fix that and we're on the road.

Agreed.

But it’s the DORs job to make that call.

If he doesn’t then I think the need for change goes a bit higher.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 00:23
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Scaramouche
Don't give me problems, give me solutions!

(Sensible ones)

Sack JK.

Appoint Mallinder.

Let Mallinder appoint and sack who he wants in the coaching team.

Shazam! We win the league!

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 07:58
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Scaramouche
Don't give me problems, give me solutions!

(Sensible ones)

Sack JK.

Appoint Mallinder.

Let Mallinder appoint and sack who he wants in the coaching team.

Shazam! We win the league!

For about the umpteenth time nobody is saying that and it’s a lazy, mindless way of trying to ‘debate’ the point.

Nobody can guarantee that Mallinder or anyone else will improve us. But making a change is much more likely to improve things than carrying on with the same old dross that is currently carrying us backwards.

So please keep your various straw men to yourself.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Roaming Quin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 08:20
They must get coached to go for the corner why are we turning down so many 3 pointers in favour of a completely inept maul and putting pressure back on ourselves. Points points points

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 08:52
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Scaramouche
Don't give me problems, give me solutions!

(Sensible ones)

Sack JK.

Appoint Mallinder.

Let Mallinder appoint and sack who he wants in the coaching team.

Shazam! We win the league!

For about the umpteenth time nobody is saying that and it’s a lazy, mindless way of trying to ‘debate’ the point.

Nobody can guarantee that Mallinder or anyone else will improve us. But making a change is much more likely to improve things than carrying on with the same old dross that is currently carrying us backwards.

So please keep your various straw men to yourself.

Let's make Minty head coach. A change is more likely to improve things...

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Cookie (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 09:24
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Scaramouche
Don't give me problems, give me solutions!

(Sensible ones)

Sack JK.

Appoint Mallinder.

Let Mallinder appoint and sack who he wants in the coaching team.

Shazam! We win the league!

For about the umpteenth time nobody is saying that and it’s a lazy, mindless way of trying to ‘debate’ the point.

Nobody can guarantee that Mallinder or anyone else will improve us. But making a change is much more likely to improve things than carrying on with the same old dross that is currently carrying us backwards.

So please keep your various straw men to yourself.

Let's make Minty head coach. A change is more likely to improve things...

This is crass even for you, QK.

Personally I'd advocate getting a good coach in rather than promoting one who isn't really getting the results we'd hoped for. That's why we're in this mess.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 09:35
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Scaramouche
Don't give me problems, give me solutions!

(Sensible ones)

Sack JK.

Appoint Mallinder.

Let Mallinder appoint and sack who he wants in the coaching team.

Shazam! We win the league!

For about the umpteenth time nobody is saying that and it’s a lazy, mindless way of trying to ‘debate’ the point.

Nobody can guarantee that Mallinder or anyone else will improve us. But making a change is much more likely to improve things than carrying on with the same old dross that is currently carrying us backwards.

So please keep your various straw men to yourself.

Let's make Minty head coach. A change is more likely to improve things...

This is crass even for you, QK.

Personally I'd advocate getting a good coach in rather than promoting one who isn't really getting the results we'd hoped for. That's why we're in this mess.

So a change won't necessarily be more likely to bring success? Why don't you two discuss it and try to reach agreement?

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 11:24
It’s genuinely like trying to debate with a toddler

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 11:30
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Scaramouche
Don't give me problems, give me solutions!

(Sensible ones)

Sack JK.

Appoint Mallinder.

Let Mallinder appoint and sack who he wants in the coaching team.

Shazam! We win the league!

For about the umpteenth time nobody is saying that and it’s a lazy, mindless way of trying to ‘debate’ the point.

Nobody can guarantee that Mallinder or anyone else will improve us. But making a change is much more likely to improve things than carrying on with the same old dross that is currently carrying us backwards.

So please keep your various straw men to yourself.

Let's make Minty head coach. A change is more likely to improve things...

This is crass even for you, QK.

Personally I'd advocate getting a good coach in rather than promoting one who isn't really getting the results we'd hoped for. That's why we're in this mess.

So a change won't necessarily be more likely to bring success? Why don't you two discuss it and try to reach agreement?

Of course it won't definitely bring an improvement, but on the balance of probabilities it probably would.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 11:39
Quote:
talkshowhost86
It’s genuinely like trying to debate with a toddler

That's harsh. Cookie sometimes posts reasonable stuff.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 11:40
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Scaramouche
Don't give me problems, give me solutions!

(Sensible ones)

Sack JK.

Appoint Mallinder.

Let Mallinder appoint and sack who he wants in the coaching team.

Shazam! We win the league!

For about the umpteenth time nobody is saying that and it’s a lazy, mindless way of trying to ‘debate’ the point.

Nobody can guarantee that Mallinder or anyone else will improve us. But making a change is much more likely to improve things than carrying on with the same old dross that is currently carrying us backwards.

So please keep your various straw men to yourself.

Let's make Minty head coach. A change is more likely to improve things...

This is crass even for you, QK.

Personally I'd advocate getting a good coach in rather than promoting one who isn't really getting the results we'd hoped for. That's why we're in this mess.

So a change won't necessarily be more likely to bring success? Why don't you two discuss it and try to reach agreement?

Of course it won't definitely bring an improvement, but on the balance of probabilities it probably would.

And how do you reach that conclusion?

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 11:50
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Scaramouche
Don't give me problems, give me solutions!

(Sensible ones)

Sack JK.

Appoint Mallinder.

Let Mallinder appoint and sack who he wants in the coaching team.

Shazam! We win the league!

For about the umpteenth time nobody is saying that and it’s a lazy, mindless way of trying to ‘debate’ the point.

Nobody can guarantee that Mallinder or anyone else will improve us. But making a change is much more likely to improve things than carrying on with the same old dross that is currently carrying us backwards.

So please keep your various straw men to yourself.

Let's make Minty head coach. A change is more likely to improve things...

This is crass even for you, QK.

Personally I'd advocate getting a good coach in rather than promoting one who isn't really getting the results we'd hoped for. That's why we're in this mess.

So a change won't necessarily be more likely to bring success? Why don't you two discuss it and try to reach agreement?

Of course it won't definitely bring an improvement, but on the balance of probabilities it probably would.

And how do you reach that conclusion?

Because we're underperforming and all the signs point to a club which has become too cosy. Our defence is substandard and the coaches who took us from best team in the country to mediocre are still at the helm. You've been told this over and over.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
MrOther (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 11:52
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Scaramouche
Don't give me problems, give me solutions!

(Sensible ones)

Sack JK.

Appoint Mallinder.

Let Mallinder appoint and sack who he wants in the coaching team.

Shazam! We win the league!

For about the umpteenth time nobody is saying that and it’s a lazy, mindless way of trying to ‘debate’ the point.

Nobody can guarantee that Mallinder or anyone else will improve us. But making a change is much more likely to improve things than carrying on with the same old dross that is currently carrying us backwards.

So please keep your various straw men to yourself.

Let's make Minty head coach. A change is more likely to improve things...

This is crass even for you, QK.

Personally I'd advocate getting a good coach in rather than promoting one who isn't really getting the results we'd hoped for. That's why we're in this mess.

So a change won't necessarily be more likely to bring success? Why don't you two discuss it and try to reach agreement?

Of course it won't definitely bring an improvement, but on the balance of probabilities it probably would.

And how do you reach that conclusion?

How does he reach that conclusion? Its called common sense, recognition of the blindingly obvious, the ablity to accept an unpleasant truth. The emperor simply has no clothes.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 11:54
I am not Pro JK or Anti JK, I just try and say it how I see it. Quinky, I admire you blind faith in JK and everything the club does but I think you are being a little silly. Of course you cannot be certain of an improvement BUT, unless you try you will not know. As it stands we are drifting along with the odd decent performance (where the pro JK posters point to the fact we can do it and JK needs time) followed by some complete dross (where the anti JK posters point to more of the same old rubbish).

I have nothing against JK, I think he seems a good coach, I am not so sure he makes a good DOR. I would say our pack has gone backwards under GR. You cannot blame JK for taking the job, if offered of course he would. I blame the person that offered it to him. After the endless search I cannot believe that he was the best candidate. My guess would be he was the cheapest. I said at the time, and maintain this, that when COS left we had a great chance to clear the decks and build again, we blew it.

One thing I do like currently, and that is the type of player we are bringing in (and being linked with). Lets hope a few do sign.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
1908 (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 11:55
Defence coach no good?

Just been up to Newcastle and only conceded 11 points. I'd say that was a good outcome.(I know, I know....if you only score 10 then it's not great)

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Portquin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 12:14
Have you watched the 1st half from yesterday? 31....yes 31 missed tackles in 30mins!!!

Problem with Easter is he is so arrogant he probably thinks he is doing a good job!

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
1908 (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 12:49
I know you missed 31 tackles.

But the outcome was only 11 points conceded in 80 mins.

Scramble defence must have worked then.

Look, I'm being very tongue in cheek. Obviously the Falcons attack wasn't perhaps taking it's chances. But very few teams go up there and only concede 11 points! But then again many teams have been up there and scored more than 10. I'm trying to be glass half full. Tis the season of goodwill after all.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
blucherquin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 13:02
Easter is a terrible coach and needs sacking now

Great player for us but mr theres 35k down the toilet has always come across as one of the lads

Im sure his bants are hilarious - but his defence coaching is the thing thats really funny.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/12/2017 13:03 by blucherquin.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 13:15
Is it the "coaching plan" or the the way the players are (or are not) following the plan? Often see players flying out of the line and leaving a dog leg for the opposition to exploit. Interesting that the performance of the opposition players are never taken into account, we all love to see Charlie Walker carving up the defence, how much of that is down to him or the failings in the oppo defensive line?

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 14:29
So the answer is to simply sack the man at the helm and see what happens with someone else? I see. I'm guessing many posters on here have never run a business. But clearly you're brilliant rugby coaches.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 16:23
Quote:
Quinky Kin
So the answer is to simply sack the man at the helm and see what happens with someone else? I see. I'm guessing many posters on here have never run a business. But clearly you're brilliant rugby coaches.

So if you were running a business, and that business was underachieving, you would happily sit by and watch it struggle along, or would you go out and do something about it?? You do not need to be a brilliant rugby coach to see that Quins are playing below the levels that they should be with the squad we have.

Another way to look at, what are your expectations of Quins in the future if the current set up stays as it is?? will we be challenging for top 4 next season?? if so what do you base that massive improvement on, having seen us this season?? I am not trying to make this into another pathetic back and forth like other threads have turned into, just trying to work out your point of view.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 16:45
Quote:
Quinky Kin
So the answer is to simply sack the man at the helm and see what happens with someone else? I see. I'm guessing many posters on here have never run a business. But clearly you're brilliant rugby coaches.

What’s your answer then exactly?

Leave things as they are and desperately hope that the nonsense we’ve seen in the last 18 months (and indeed beyond that) suddenly changes even though nothing has remotely suggested that will happen?

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 16:44
My point of view is that knee jerk reactions of "sack JK" after every loss seem a little desperate and short sighted. I do own a couple of businesses, and when things aren't right you look at what is causing the problem, then rectify it. Sometimes the change will be instant, other times it will take time and even an element of trial and error. Simply sacking someone with no contingency or continuity plan us naive at best, stupid at worst. All factors need to be taken into consideration too, in our case the ongoing injury crisis and consequently continuously changing team. It's also important to measure improvement, such as league position, but that needs to be done at the end of the season to have real value as a metric. Of course you can always measure your performance against your peers, but how many teams are having an unpredictable season?

I don't think JK is achieving great results yet. I think we will improve on a 6th place finish this season, and improve again next season. Unlike others, I am patient enough and willing to wait. Ultimately it's only a game, albeit one that I'm passionate about. And if we don't win... I look forward to our next game.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 16:47
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
So the answer is to simply sack the man at the helm and see what happens with someone else? I see. I'm guessing many posters on here have never run a business. But clearly you're brilliant rugby coaches.

What’s your answer then exactly?

Leave things as they are and desperately hope that the nonsense we’ve seen in the last 18 months (and indeed beyond that) suddenly changes even though nothing has remotely suggested that will happen?

In the last 18 months we went from 7th place finish to 6th, thus qualifying for the main European competition.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 17:01
Quote:
Quinky Kin
My point of view is that knee jerk reactions of "sack JK" after every loss seem a little desperate and short sighted. I do own a couple of businesses, and when things aren't right you look at what is causing the problem, then rectify it. Sometimes the change will be instant, other times it will take time and even an element of trial and error. Simply sacking someone with no contingency or continuity plan us naive at best, stupid at worst. All factors need to be taken into consideration too, in our case the ongoing injury crisis and consequently continuously changing team. It's also important to measure improvement, such as league position, but that needs to be done at the end of the season to have real value as a metric. Of course you can always measure your performance against your peers, but how many teams are having an unpredictable season?
I don't think JK is achieving great results yet. I think we will improve on a 6th place finish this season, and improve again next season. Unlike others, I am patient enough and willing to wait. Ultimately it's only a game, albeit one that I'm passionate about. And if we don't win... I look forward to our next game.

OK, thats fair enough. If not JK and the coaches, what would you say is causing the current problem?? Injury crisis could be part of it but no side ever really gets the chance to put out a full strength side. Yesterday for example, that was a pretty good side that we put out and one on paper that I was pretty happy with and yet once again the performance and result was not great.

Getting rid of JK before having someone lined up. I am not saying that, if JK was to go then the club would of course need someone lined up. I am sure Saints had someone in mind when they got rid of Mallinder.

As said before, I have no agenda against JK or the coaches, I want what is best for Quins. While JK was not my first choice, the man got my backing. As it stands, him and his coaching set up are starting to lose it based on what I see on the pitch

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 17:44
I didn't mention the coaches. Previously our defence was poor, so why not the defence coach? Our attack has improved a lot this season, so not the attack coach. I think the head coach needs to be highlighting the issues... Or maybe he is the issue? The playing squad has been decimated, no question about that. When k players return we do look better. I personally believe we will turn things around this season, but we won't know for a few months yet.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
QuinAlan (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 17:45
If I were running the club, Id be looking into why it is we have so many injuries. Does the fitness & conditioning dept need reviewing? No coach on earth can get a winning team to gel together when there are constantly 20+ injured players. That has to be a huge factor, not an excuse. If the game is changing then preparation must need to change & adapt to it. Get a solid team out on the pitch week in week out, & see how we do. Am I clutching straws?

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
MrOther (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 17:56
Quote:
QuinAlan
If I were running the club, Id be looking into why it is we have so many injuries. Does the fitness & conditioning dept need reviewing? No coach on earth can get a winning team to gel together when there are constantly 20+ injured players. That has to be a huge factor, not an excuse. If the game is changing then preparation must need to change & adapt to it. Get a solid team out on the pitch week in week out, & see how we do. Am I clutching straws?

Yes, youre clutching at straws, but it is a pleasure to see the subjunctive deployed. Its so rare in contemporary English.

:-)

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 17:59
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
So the answer is to simply sack the man at the helm and see what happens with someone else? I see. I'm guessing many posters on here have never run a business. But clearly you're brilliant rugby coaches.

What’s your answer then exactly?

Leave things as they are and desperately hope that the nonsense we’ve seen in the last 18 months (and indeed beyond that) suddenly changes even though nothing has remotely suggested that will happen?

In the last 18 months we went from 7th place finish to 6th, thus qualifying for the main European competition.

Yes you’re right. We’re a real success of a club at the moment.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 18:52
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
So the answer is to simply sack the man at the helm and see what happens with someone else? I see. I'm guessing many posters on here have never run a business. But clearly you're brilliant rugby coaches.

What’s your answer then exactly?

Leave things as they are and desperately hope that the nonsense we’ve seen in the last 18 months (and indeed beyond that) suddenly changes even though nothing has remotely suggested that will happen?

In the last 18 months we went from 7th place finish to 6th, thus qualifying for the main European competition.

Yes you’re right. We’re a real success of a club at the moment.

There was an improvement. You deny that?

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 19:36
Absolutely I deny that.

We’ve done this a million times QK.

You think sneaking 6th on points difference against a team who are currently below us shows a marked improvement.

Most others realise we hadn’t moved forward at all and benefitted from Northampton’s failings and we were actually worse than the season before in terms of performance.

But even in your childish simplistic approach to how we’re doing, how does 9th at Christmas fit in?

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 20:59
Quote:
Portquin
...I put a lot of time and effort into these well paid players but at the moment it looks like we just met each other....Im horrified to say I support this rabblle

So its your fault then!

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Cookie (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 21:18
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Absolutely I deny that.
We’ve done this a million times QK.

You think sneaking 6th on points difference against a team who are currently below us shows a marked improvement.

Most others realise we hadn’t moved forward at all and benefitted from Northampton’s failings and we were actually worse than the season before in terms of performance.

But even in your childish simplistic approach to how we’re doing, how does 9th at Christmas fit in?

He won't be interested in any kind of judgement until the end of the season. Then he'll want to give him another as it 'wasn't JK's team'. Then it'll be injuries. Then the players not understanding simple instructions. Then 'we're only a mid-table club'. Then it'll be because of the move to the new ground. Finally, around 2021, we might accept that JK/MM etc are not working out.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 22:05
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Absolutely I deny that.
We’ve done this a million times QK.

You think sneaking 6th on points difference against a team who are currently below us shows a marked improvement.

Most others realise we hadn’t moved forward at all and benefitted from Northampton’s failings and we were actually worse than the season before in terms of performance.

But even in your childish simplistic approach to how we’re doing, how does 9th at Christmas fit in?

He won't be interested in any kind of judgement until the end of the season. Then he'll want to give him another as it 'wasn't JK's team'. Then it'll be injuries. Then the players not understanding simple instructions. Then 'we're only a mid-table club'. Then it'll be because of the move to the new ground. Finally, around 2021, we might accept that JK/MM etc are not working out.

Much of which I've never said. But good try.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 22:08
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Absolutely I deny that.
We’ve done this a million times QK.

You think sneaking 6th on points difference against a team who are currently below us shows a marked improvement.

Most others realise we hadn’t moved forward at all and benefitted from Northampton’s failings and we were actually worse than the season before in terms of performance.

But even in your childish simplistic approach to how we’re doing, how does 9th at Christmas fit in?

How is it meant to fit in? What relevance is our position at Christmas to our position at end of season?

And I think 6th is an improvement on 7th. Bizarrely, you don't. I'm happy to agree to disagree on that one.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
blucherquin (IP Logged)
24 December, 2017 22:19
What a Christmas treat, exactly the same argument playing out endlessly forever..its what Jesus would have wanted.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Snowman (IP Logged)
25 December, 2017 07:56
Quote:
blucherquin
What a Christmas treat, exactly the same argument playing out endlessly forever..its what Jesus would have wanted.

Would you like to expand on that one?

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Months KYT (IP Logged)
25 December, 2017 08:36
Jesus is a myth.. and god is a gas .. well I believe Alan Partridge before the archbishop

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Snowman (IP Logged)
25 December, 2017 09:51
Hi DOK
Happy Christmas to you
Bearing in mind it is Christmas Day and we have a plethora of JK/coaches in/out threads hopefully you will let us run with this one
As long as it remains respectful obviously

OK here goes:

Jesus is a myth
There is more than enough contemporaneous written evidence - Josephus for example - to enable historians to agree to the historical existence of a man named Jesus
No serious historian now argues that such a historical figure did not exist

God is a gas:
Worth looking at some of the classic arguments for the existence of a supreme creator being:

The Onological argument
The Teleological argument
The Kalam cosmological argument
Leibnitzs contingency argument
The moral argument

There are some fun short videos on YouTube which explain each of these
They might help you get to sleep after lunch today if nothing else!

The key question of course is how each person responds to the challenges that this raises

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
25 December, 2017 14:57
That all just makes me Cross.



Rodders you p-lonker!

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Snowman (IP Logged)
25 December, 2017 19:15
Oh! You spoiler you!!!!

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
blucherquin (IP Logged)
25 December, 2017 21:00
Quote:
Snowman
Hi DOK
Happy Christmas to you
Bearing in mind it is Christmas Day and we have a plethora of JK/coaches in/out threads hopefully you will let us run with this one
As long as it remains respectful obviously

OK here goes:

Jesus is a myth
There is more than enough contemporaneous written evidence - Josephus for example - to enable historians to agree to the historical existence of a man named Jesus
No serious historian now argues that such a historical figure did not exist

God is a gas:
Worth looking at some of the classic arguments for the existence of a supreme creator being:

The Onological argument
The Teleological argument
The Kalam cosmological argument
Leibnitzs contingency argument
The moral argument

There are some fun short videos on YouTube which explain each of these
They might help you get to sleep after lunch today if nothing else!

The key question of course is how each person responds to the challenges that this raises

You embody the onanistic argument perfectly

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
25 December, 2017 22:08
Quote:
Quinky Kin
My point of view is that knee jerk reactions of "sack JK" after every loss seem a little desperate and short sighted. I do own a couple of businesses, and when things aren't right you look at what is causing the problem, then rectify it. Sometimes the change will be instant, other times it will take time and even an element of trial and error. Simply sacking someone with no contingency or continuity plan us naive at best, stupid at worst. All factors need to be taken into consideration too, in our case the ongoing injury crisis and consequently continuously changing team. It's also important to measure improvement, such as league position, but that needs to be done at the end of the season to have real value as a metric. Of course you can always measure your performance against your peers, but how many teams are having an unpredictable season?
I don't think JK is achieving great results yet. I think we will improve on a 6th place finish this season, and improve again next season. Unlike others, I am patient enough and willing to wait. Ultimately it's only a game, albeit one that I'm passionate about. And if we don't win... I look forward to our next game.

With respect, what the heck do you know about running your own business? I clearly know more about it than you. Ill be happy to meet with you to explain whats what.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
26 December, 2017 00:23
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Quote:
Quinky Kin
My point of view is that knee jerk reactions of "sack JK" after every loss seem a little desperate and short sighted. I do own a couple of businesses, and when things aren't right you look at what is causing the problem, then rectify it. Sometimes the change will be instant, other times it will take time and even an element of trial and error. Simply sacking someone with no contingency or continuity plan us naive at best, stupid at worst. All factors need to be taken into consideration too, in our case the ongoing injury crisis and consequently continuously changing team. It's also important to measure improvement, such as league position, but that needs to be done at the end of the season to have real value as a metric. Of course you can always measure your performance against your peers, but how many teams are having an unpredictable season?
I don't think JK is achieving great results yet. I think we will improve on a 6th place finish this season, and improve again next season. Unlike others, I am patient enough and willing to wait. Ultimately it's only a game, albeit one that I'm passionate about. And if we don't win... I look forward to our next game.

With respect, what the heck do you know about running your own business? I clearly know more about it than you. Ill be happy to meet with you to explain whats what.

Do you know what my businesses are? 🙂

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
26 December, 2017 08:14
I worry for QK’s businesses if he’s using the ‘it’s only a game’ approach to management.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Snowman (IP Logged)
26 December, 2017 08:23
Quote:
blucherquin
Quote:
Snowman
Hi DOK
Happy Christmas to you
Bearing in mind it is Christmas Day and we have a plethora of JK/coaches in/out threads hopefully you will let us run with this one
As long as it remains respectful obviously

OK here goes:

Jesus is a myth
There is more than enough contemporaneous written evidence - Josephus for example - to enable historians to agree to the historical existence of a man named Jesus
No serious historian now argues that such a historical figure did not exist

God is a gas:
Worth looking at some of the classic arguments for the existence of a supreme creator being:

The Onological argument
The Teleological argument
The Kalam cosmological argument
Leibnitzs contingency argument
The moral argument

There are some fun short videos on YouTube which explain each of these
They might help you get to sleep after lunch today if nothing else!

The key question of course is how each person responds to the challenges that this raises

You embody the onanistic argument perfectly


It appears that Matthew 7:6 applies in this case.

Pity. I had hoped for better.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Cookie (IP Logged)
26 December, 2017 09:37
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Quote:
Quinky Kin
My point of view is that knee jerk reactions of "sack JK" after every loss seem a little desperate and short sighted. I do own a couple of businesses, and when things aren't right you look at what is causing the problem, then rectify it. Sometimes the change will be instant, other times it will take time and even an element of trial and error. Simply sacking someone with no contingency or continuity plan us naive at best, stupid at worst. All factors need to be taken into consideration too, in our case the ongoing injury crisis and consequently continuously changing team. It's also important to measure improvement, such as league position, but that needs to be done at the end of the season to have real value as a metric. Of course you can always measure your performance against your peers, but how many teams are having an unpredictable season?
I don't think JK is achieving great results yet. I think we will improve on a 6th place finish this season, and improve again next season. Unlike others, I am patient enough and willing to wait. Ultimately it's only a game, albeit one that I'm passionate about. And if we don't win... I look forward to our next game.

With respect, what the heck do you know about running your own business? I clearly know more about it than you. Ill be happy to meet with you to explain whats what.

Do you know what my businesses are? 🙂

I reckon that, whatever they are, you've got some good staff but, for whatever reason they're underperforming. But you expect, for no logical reason, that if you stay patient there will be a miraculous change in fortune.

After all, they did pretty well just a few years ago and you haven't really changed the management structure much, preferring to reward good people who've been with you for years with promotions.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
26 December, 2017 13:06
Quote:
talkshowhost86
I worry for QK’s businesses if he’s using the ‘it’s only a game’ approach to management.

"if"... The tiny word with huge impact.

Thanks for your concern though. But business is going very well.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
26 December, 2017 14:20
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
I worry for QK’s businesses if he’s using the ‘it’s only a game’ approach to management.

"if"... The tiny word with huge impact.

Thanks for your concern though. But business is going very well.

You must be very touched QK with so many showing concern over your business interests.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
26 December, 2017 17:51
Quote:
Bedfordshire Boy
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
I worry for QK’s businesses if he’s using the ‘it’s only a game’ approach to management.

"if"... The tiny word with huge impact.

Thanks for your concern though. But business is going very well.

You must be very touched QK with so many showing concern over your business interests.

I am, BB. I thought maybe it was just the season of goodwill... But maybe they genuinely do care.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
27 December, 2017 07:49
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
I worry for QK’s businesses if he’s using the ‘it’s only a game’ approach to management.

"if"... The tiny word with huge impact.

Thanks for your concern though. But business is going very well.

Isn’t it annoying when someone deliberately misinterprets something you’ve written to twist it to their agenda?

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
27 December, 2017 08:15
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
I worry for QK’s businesses if he’s using the ‘it’s only a game’ approach to management.

"if"... The tiny word with huge impact.

Thanks for your concern though. But business is going very well.

Isn’t it annoying when someone deliberately misinterprets something you’ve written to twist it to their agenda?

Yes it is. I do wish people wouldn't do that.

It seems we are agreeing again!

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Grunge Quin (IP Logged)
27 December, 2017 17:26
Its been a season and a half of JK now, what has changed? Not that much.

We've had the standard huge game raising performance against Sarries, but for every Sarries at home match we have a string of disapointing games where we appear to only turn up for periods of the game (and often when we are chasing the game and the score line at the end flatters the overall performance suggesting it was closer than it was).

Since JK has taken over, for the Ariva premiershop matches ONLY, his win percentage is 48%. With that number any person with half a brain cell will see you will not get very far, certainly winning anything of note and thus if you have ambition changes should be made... (Lower mid table medicority anyone?)

Because of the Sarries performance, all is not lost because it shows we DO have the capability to play, which suggests to me its a coaching issue. If certain players can't motivate themselves for the duration of a season, then we need to say goodbye. We also need to say goodbye to a few of the backroom staff. We CANNOT leak points like we do, and at times our defence has been frankly embarrasing and this needs to be addressed. JK dosen't inspire me on a personal level, and if left the club tomorrow ask yourself how many teams of a similar or better calibre would snap him up? Not very many I imagine.

The real issue for me is David Ellis. His grand plan a few years back is further away than ever but it seems unlike other clubs, we wont act and change the record when it starts to become scratched (Mallinder at saints for example).

For me as I see it, Quins aren't currently a club that has a particular identity to which we had in our style of play in our title winning season. Nor are we a club that probably scares others in knowing they are playing us. We are basically the fat kid during a 100m sprint, will be clapped and cheered regardless, have people say well done, but actually wont revel in any true glory as our friends have a better training programme.

Been a fan of 20+ years, so not a fly by night tourist fan, just my persoal view on things. In essence, for this club to move in a better direction, Ellis, JK, GR and Minty in particular need to reconsider their positons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/12/2017 17:26 by Grunge Quin.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
DOK (IP Logged)
27 December, 2017 17:40
Surprised you left out Duncan Saville. smiling smiley

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
27 December, 2017 17:40
Quote:
We are basically the fat kid during a 100m sprint...

At least the fat kid in the sprint is funny.



BB

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
27 December, 2017 20:05
Quote:
Brown Bottle
Quote:
We are basically the fat kid during a 100m sprint...

At least the fat kid in the sprint is funny.

The fat kid who occasionally beats Usain Bolt...

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Grunge Quin (IP Logged)
27 December, 2017 20:22
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Brown Bottle
Quote:
We are basically the fat kid during a 100m sprint...

At least the fat kid in the sprint is funny.

The fat kid who occasionally beats Usain Bolt...

True. But on your take, you deem it acceptable to win the one off tough game, than actually make a fist of it winning the 7-8 actual games which would be the difference between a medal at the end of it than just a nice highlight for the follow season to spew up before the fixtures played again

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Only Joe Quin (IP Logged)
27 December, 2017 21:42
I feel your pain Grunge Quin, as one who has followed Quins for almost as many years as you. But given the nature of competitive sport, most fans are destined to feel this pain more often than not. Nevertheless I want the club to fight tooth and nail so that very soon were the one set of fans who dont feel like this.
I tend to the view that changing an organisation from mediocrity to excellence is 90% hard work and 5% inspired change. (The other 5% is luck). Most of the comment on this board focuses on the 5% change and in one sense thats fair enough because its easier to comment on from the outside. But to my mind, the 90% hard work is more important.

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Grunge Quin (IP Logged)
27 December, 2017 22:55
If we were a football club, I think we would be West Ham (sadly my team).

A board which likes to paint a vision that builds expectation to actually succeed yet when it comes down to it, nothing of the sort materialises and are stubborn to make any proper changes. (Moyes and Bilic are certainly puppets of the board rather than someone stamping their own authority on).

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Nev's Left Boot (IP Logged)
28 December, 2017 08:37
GQ - your post makes a lot of sense. My issue with all of the 'sack JK' comments are that we have no devine right to be further up the table / win trophies etc.

There are 2 trophies to win (im not counting the AW) - 12 teams in the Prem - 1 winner
20 teams in europe - 1 winner.

So it's not about winning the cups etc - it's about being competitive and seeing an improvement.

I felt that we started the season with a different approach, more pragmatic and built on set piece and territory. This seems to have gone out the window with the injuries etc.

Defence - it isn't good enough and it appears to be based on dominating the tackle (tricky as we have a few smaller players) and not ever missing a tackle, as soon as we do - it is almost a guaranteed try, no matter where the miss takes place.

Attack wise, we rarely throw a set piece move, but do rely on constantly recycling and expecting someone to do something extraordinary to make yards.

Injuries are one thing and they do take a toll, disrupt routines and structures and make defence that little bit trickier but the patterns and structures should still remain, the style and approach should still remain.

For me, the issue is not JK (or not him alone), I feel that he needs to change the group that work under him, identify coaching talent elsewhere and bring it in, to make changes to the way we play. This would show strong leadership and an ability to identify issues and i don't think this is something that can happen mid season, but if he remains and all the other guys do as well, then it will be time for one big clear out.

Shame really... I wonder if, without the injuries it would have grown into something else. The year we won the league we were so lucky to pick pretty much the same XV for the majority of the year....

 
Re: 40mins to save JK
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
28 December, 2017 08:45
I'm also a West Ham fan. Once a game is over, we have to accept the result. I dislike our losses as much as anyone, but I don't believe the response to a poor performance is to rush out and sack someone. I also believe the players should shoulder much of the blame.

Only Joe makes a good point; 90% hard work, that's down to the players. 5% luck, you can't legislate for that. 5% inspired change - for all we know, the coaching team are making changes on an ongoing basis; if they work, we may not even notice them, but if they don't work then people clamour for a sacking.

We are making slow progress under JK, but it's still progress. Faster progress would be great, but I'm a realist.

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