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Where Are We?
ComeAllWithin.co.uk (IP Logged)
28 December, 2017 12:29
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2018 14:24 by DOK.

 
Re: Where Are We?
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
28 December, 2017 12:46
Good analysis and an interesting read.

Whilst there are certainly some positives (rucks and line outs as an example) the fact that we have such a poor defence and such a poor disciplinary record means we need to have the best attack in the division just to make up for that.

And a blunt attack means we aren’t getting that.

I hope someone at the club is looking at stats like this and trying to sort it out. But as these things have all been problems for a while I’m not sure they are.

 
Re: Where Are We?
Only Joe Quin (IP Logged)
28 December, 2017 13:05
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Good analysis and an interesting read.
I hope someone at the club is looking at stats like this and trying to sort it out. But as these things have all been problems for a while I’m not sure they are.

Why would they do that? Its not as if were talking about professional rugby coaches who spend all their working life looking to improve the performance of their team.

 
Re: Where Are We?
DOK (IP Logged)
28 December, 2017 14:26
This is the comparison between us and Exeter, just so you can see the differences (and similarities)

compare Harlequins Stats to Exeter Stats

 
Re: Where Are We?
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
28 December, 2017 14:50
Quote:
A question I often find myself asking is "Where are we compared to the other premiership teams?".

We're 9th, mate. smiling smiley



BB

 
Re: Where Are We?
T-Bone (IP Logged)
28 December, 2017 18:07
So, we carry and offload loads, but don't get anywhere with those carries and offloads, then lose any attacking lineouts, or give away soft penalties? When we are defending, we miss loads of tackles. Add in the points we concede and what those stats show is what is blatantly apparent to all but the most blindly optimistic fans.

Luckily our coaching is superb and the weak stats are purely due to overly pessimistic fans and injuries, so we're nailed on for top 4

 
Re: Where Are We?
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
28 December, 2017 19:47
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Good analysis and an interesting read.
Whilst there are certainly some positives (rucks and line outs as an example) the fact that we have such a poor defence and such a poor disciplinary record means we need to have the best attack in the division just to make up for that.

And a blunt attack means we aren’t getting that.

I hope someone at the club is looking at stats like this and trying to sort it out. But as these things have all been problems for a while I’m not sure they are.

Lineout success % I'd all well and good, but this is one of those stats which doesn't tell the whole story. I'd love to see a stat for % lineout/mail success in opposition 22.

Worst tackles in the league, worst scrum in the league - but it doesn't matter as long as we finish 5th...

 
Re: Where Are We?
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
28 December, 2017 19:49
And the 9th in metres really believe the Nev attack genius thing too. Rowntree, Evans and Easter are all clearly struggling. And we know mapletoft is a spoofer. So that's good.

 
Re: Where Are We?
Nev's Left Boot (IP Logged)
28 December, 2017 20:35
Awesome analysis - Please tell me you are emailing it to the club, just in case eh?

It really is like watching the team in numbers - take out the one or two good games (wasps and Saracens) and i imagine it would be even worse!

 
Re: Where Are We?
RleQuin (IP Logged)
28 December, 2017 22:35
Bottom line is we have no killer instinct- we are going nowhere.
Our defence is breached too easily and our discipline is poor.
The league table doesn't lie.
RleQ

 
Re: Where Are We?
1908 (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 07:58
Very interesting stats DOK. Thank you for that.

They can be interpreted in many different ways and I am sure that the coaches at Quins will have similar data. A case in point is the lineout stats. It would be interesting to know how many metres teams make from lineout drives.

A friend of mine from Newlyn goes to watch Exeter most home games and pointed out that the Chiefs make a hell of a lot of ground from lineout drives. They throw a lot of ball to the back and the forwards from the front and middle of the lineout peel round really quickly and hit the maul with real pace and ferocity before the opposition can set their defence.

 
Re: Where Are We?
DOK (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 08:49
1ndeed 1908, whereas our driving ability seemed to stop when John Kingston stopped being forwards coach.

Can't agree with RlQ regarding "the league table doesn't lie", but as I say I have no proof of that. Just a gut feel it's too variable to be an accurate predictor. As I say, 10 points more and we'd be third in the table!

And yes, I'd love to see the stat for how often we get a lineout in the oppo 22 and then screw it up! Ditto how often we get to the 5 metre line but no further.

 
Re: Where Are We?
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 09:02
Whilst there are ways to interpret those stats (as 1908 says) is there a positive way to interpret them?

Not saying this to be churlish but with a blunt attack and a terrible defence, where are people seeing any positives?

 
Re: Where Are We?
Dave L (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 09:38
I'd be interested to see the stat that shows the number of lineouts we lose in the 10m closest to the opposition tryline. We're surely No1 in that which would limit the effectiveness of our driving maul.

 
Re: Where Are We?
T-Bone (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 10:46
Quote:
DOK
1ndeed 1908, whereas our driving ability seemed to stop when John Kingston stopped being forwards coach.
Can't agree with RlQ regarding "the league table doesn't lie", but as I say I have no proof of that. Just a gut feel it's too variable to be an accurate predictor. As I say, 10 points more and we'd be third in the table!

And yes, I'd love to see the stat for how often we get a lineout in the oppo 22 and then screw it up! Ditto how often we get to the 5 metre line but no further.

10 points more and we'd be third? But we don't have 10 points more. It's not like we've had an unfair 10 point deduction for a technical breach of kit regulations.

We don't have those ten extra points due largely to poor defence, dreadful ability to score from attacking line outs. If other teams around us had ten points more then where would we be?

Thanks for the stats though. Interesting, if depressing

 
Re: Where Are We?
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 11:49
Well, we could have had 4 more points if we were good enough to beat London Irish like everyone else.

I seem to remember the line then was that they were a good side who would beat lots of other teams.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/12/2017 11:52 by RodneyRegis.

 
Re: Where Are We?
DOK (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 12:18
Sorry T-Bone, I wasn't suggesting we deserved 10 points more. I was saying the table is too volatile to use 9th place as a measure that we're a 9th best team or will end up 9th.

 
Re: Where Are We?
Dibden (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 17:45
We have the Lions forward coach 2 Lions props and 2 Ex intrernatuinal Captains in 2nd and back row.
Given these stats our quality of forward play is awful..Behnd only Care and Smith offer a threat.
Gross underperformance.There is a cultural and mental malaise that only a major change of top personnel can fix.We have no hope with the current lot

 
Re: Where Are We?
jonf (IP Logged)
29 December, 2017 17:48
Good analysis.
Seems we cant defend, give away cards like Christmas and scrums are a bit poor. Defence coach failings or a team not playing as a team?

 
Re: Where Are We?
arniepie (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 08:37
When we are constantly playing a 2 4 2 system leaving the centre of the park to be defended by the backs its no wonder we are so woeful defensively, at what point has having front and back row on the wings been successful?

 
Re: Where Are We?
Cookie (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 10:14
Only just seen this and it's brilliant, DOK.

For me, games are primarily won and lost on attack, defence and turnovers. Our attack shows as being mid-table and these numbers show tbat, statistically, we have the worst defence. I must say, we knew it was bad, but those rankings are scary.

The one that worries me, though, is turnovers. We're in the bottom 4 for both turnovers won and lost. If you can't keep the ball, it doesn't matter how good your attack is. And if you keep giving the ball away and can't tackle, you'll concede 30+ points a game.

These are pretty damning numbers.

 
Re: Where Are We?
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 11:30
And the bandwagon rolls on and on...



Rodders you p-lonker!


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