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Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
newquin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 16:57
Crap in defence, terrible hands and brainless under pressure. Infuriating 😡. Potentially cost us the game there

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
The Baptist (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:04
I've been saying this for years. One of a handful of players that need offloading at the end of the season.

Why give away a penalty on their 5m line, when you could wait to get the ball back in a good position after they clear!!!

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
QuincyJones (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:05
If by Charlie Matthews you mean Joe Marler than yes, whole heartedly agree.

Matthews isn't my favourite player and I definitely think he lacks the qualities we need in the second row but to single him out for possibly losing us that game is ridiculous. He only played, what, 20 minutes?

The fact we lost a player from the pack and Sale still carved through our defensive line from set piece as though we'd lost a player from our backline says it all.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
never sleep (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:12
He charged down the ball that led to the Roberts try

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
blucherquin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:14
Heís had a very good season so can totally see your argument plus weíve got all those fit second rows to play instead of him........

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
newquin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:16
It was a general comment exacerbated by the brainless penalty at the end. Just so incredibly frustrating! We had 90 seconds at the end to really put the pressure on. We would have had the ball back and who knows. And he pulls the guy down in the lineout?! Kingston must be banging his head against the wall.

Agree re Marler. Equally frustrating but at least he is ultimately class. Poor old Charlie is not even championship level

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:16
I think he has been ok this season. If the rumour on here is true, he is off at the end of the season anyway

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:18
Only one donkey on the pitch today and it wasn`t Matthews.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
never sleep (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:18
Although he did enough work to earn us both a try bonus point and a losing bonus point.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
blucherquin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:18
Quote:
newquin
It was a general comment exacerbated by the brainless penalty at the end. Just so incredibly frustrating! We had 90 seconds at the end to really put the pressure on. We would have had the ball back and who knows. And he pulls the guy down in the lineout?! Kingston must be banging his head against the wall.
Agree re Marler. Equally frustrating but at least he is ultimately class. Poor old Charlie is not even championship level

Totally agree but Matthews is much improved and far from our biggest problem. And the championship comment is just nonsense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2018 17:30 by blucherquin.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Squid (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:21
Not a flashy player, but consistently good in the line out, probably gets more steals off the opposition than anyone else and always puts in a good shift around the park.

Seldom yellow-carded, let alone red.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
newquin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:21
All entitled to an opinion Blucherquin... ps how did you know my name was Ian?

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
blucherquin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:32
Quote:
newquin
All entitled to an opinion Blucherquin... ps how did you know my name was Ian?

Iím psychic. Didnít say you couldnít have an opinion. But calling him a donkey who isnít fit for the championship is an extreme position to take.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
1908 (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:39
Listening on the radio Josh Beaumont and the excellent Radio Manchester commentator both said that Matthews had to try and compete to try and disrupt Sale's ball.

What do you expect him to do? Not challenge and then let Sale run down the clock? I know it was only 5mtrs from the Sale line but most sides can run the clock down from that position quite comfortably.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
newquin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:48
I would expect him to legally challenge and not blatantly pull the man down in front of the referee. Simples

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:46
I am not a fan of Charlie Matthews at all and i don't think he is great but it is ludicrous to blame him for this loss when you had a player who again let his team down by being red carded. This loss cannot be put on Matthews, if you are to blame anyone, blame Marler

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
DOK (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 19:51
I still wince every time I see him take the ball into contact. However, all season he's proved me wrong. He is playing markedly better this season. That interference at the final lineout was just brain dead stupid, however.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
06 January, 2018 19:53
What IS startling about CM is his complete lack of pace, terrifyingly slow!!

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Mayor West (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 21:23
I think Charlie's problem is that his brain is so far away from his legs that the messages take too long to get there. He's like a giraffe, takes a long time to get going. The only occasion I remember him having enough time to get going was when he galloped away to score a try from thirty odd meters out once. If only he was more solidly built like Olly K. Far from being a donkey though.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Rocker (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 21:57
Far from a donkey! Damn good lineout forward. Not the best carrying into contact it must be admitted though.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Months KYT (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 05:54
Perhaps DOK can explain how this personal insult is allowed yet comparing certain members of the management team to types of fruit isnít allowed .. double standards

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
ArchQuin (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 09:26
Won't be too disappointed if he leaves end of season

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
arniepie (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 10:14
Harsh headline on Charlie has played well this season but has he upped his game because his contract was up?

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
DOK (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 12:13
Quote:
Months KYT
Perhaps DOK can explain how this personal insult is allowed yet comparing certain members of the management team to types of fruit isnít allowed .. double standards

Well there's a bit more leeway immediately after a game.
The insulting reference to management I previously pulled did not involve a melon. Some people seemed to assume that it did without noticing that thread was untouched.
And though I disagree with the sentiment, calling a rugby player a donkey passes the unwritten rules of when things get banned.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
T-Bone (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 13:10
The idiots really do come out after a loss

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
never sleep (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 14:15
Unfortunately, they bring their friends, the Trolls, with them.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 15:35
Quote:
Harleys Evil Step Mum
What IS startling about CM is his complete lack of pace, terrifyingly slow!!

And yet he has scored several interception tries this and last season, outstripping the cover defence/backs. "...terrifyingly slow!!" Do you actually think before you type/post? Muppet!

The only donkeys are those on this board that have brazen bias about certain players they don't like. Normally the same ones that shout the loudest about bringing in innumerable "world-class" players and concomitantly forgetting the salary cap, in direct conflict with the noise they make when Sarries or Bath make an astute player acquisition by saying that they must be breaking the salary cap.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
thomh (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 15:49
I think he's a handy squad second row but he is very slow. An interception try doesn't change that - not like it was from 90 metres.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
kevin (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 17:15
Quote:
thomh
I think he's a handy squad second row but he is very slow. An interception try doesn't change that - not like it was from 90 metres.
Iíd suggest he is more than a squad make up. He is strong and carries. Maybe too many turnovers but he will learn. BTW I really donít know many speedy 2nd rows. He will come good. Sadly at another club if rumours are to be believed.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 18:26
Quote:
T-Bone
The idiots really do come out after a loss

Some of them come out rather more frequently.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 18:28
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
T-Bone
The idiots really do come out after a loss

Some of them come out rather more frequently.

Im always here!!!

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 18:29
Quote:
HonkyTonk
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
T-Bone
The idiots really do come out after a loss

Some of them come out rather more frequently.

Im always here!!!

HT, compared to some on here, you are Einstein!

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 19:28
Quote:
thomh
I think he's a handy squad second row but he is very slow. An interception try doesn't change that - not like it was from 90 metres.

I think you somewhat ungenerous, sir - several of them from halfway! He might not run at people directly very fast, but in space heís fast for a second row forward.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 19:40
Stupid thread title and the sort of petty personal attack that undermines everyone else who tries to make constructive criticisms.

But Matthews is a limited player. Great in the line out but not sure what else he offers.

In many ways an example of the mediocrity we've come to accept in the last few years.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
never sleep (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 19:39
Quote:
talkshowhost86
But Matthews is a limited player. Great in the line out but not sure what else he offers.
Yesterday he showed that he can charge down kickers when we are down to 14 men and therefore basically create a bonus point try

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 19:44
Heís limited by the fact that he doesnít make the hard yards that say Luamanu or Chisholm do, but heís not not a back row player and heís an easier target being so tall. It would be interesting to see the stats behind his playing efforts - specifically running meterage - last time I looked, he compared well, against our own locks...

It would be great to have two locks of Horwills stature, but I really canít see much difference between Matthews, Merrick and Twomey. Or Glynn, for that matter...

It is an area of concern - Horwill is increasingly injured these days.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 19:48
Quote:
never sleep
Quote:
talkshowhost86
But Matthews is a limited player. Great in the line out but not sure what else he offers.
Yesterday he showed that he can charge down kickers when we are down to 14 men and therefore basically create a bonus point try

Not belittling that but lots of players can charge down a ball.

There isn't a single club in the top 6 at the moment who would want him and that says it all for me. He always puts in 100% but if top 4 is our aim then we need better locks than Charlie.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 19:57
Quote:
talkshowhost86

There isn't a single club in the top 6 at the moment who would want him ...

It will be interesting to see where he goes, if he does leave.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:07
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Heís limited by the fact that he doesnít make the hard yards that say Luamanu or Chisholm do, but heís not not a back row player and heís an easier target being so tall. It would be interesting to see the stats behind his playing efforts - specifically running meterage - last time I looked, he compared well, against our own locks...
It would be great to have two locks of Horwills stature, but I really canít see much difference between Matthews, Merrick and Twomey. Or Glynn, for that matter...

It is an area of concern - Horwill is increasingly injured these days.

Got to disagree about Twomey, before his injury I think he looked a much better option than the rest.
Matthews does a job, yes there are others out the that could do better but I dont think he is as bad as some make out. I will say that when he first appeared on the scene I expected him to become more influential in the side than he is (I did hope the same for Merrick, maybe I expect too much).
If true and he is off good luck to him. There is a rumour we are interested in Symmons from.Wasps, I would take that swap.
Horwill, Symmons, Twomey, Merrick, Glynn. Not a bad set of Locks. South, Lamb and Okafor on the way up (not sure about South as a lock, seems a bit small to me).

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:11
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Stupid thread title and the sort of petty personal attack that undermines everyone else who tries to make constructive criticisms.
But Matthews is a limited player. Great in the line out but not sure what else he offers.

In many ways an example of the mediocrity we've come to accept in the last few years.


I totally agree with this, I think after a game especially after a loss, it is always good to calm down before coming online to post. Calling any player a useless donkey is out of order in my opinion and like i said earlier in this thread, Matthews was not the one who got a red card and let his team down so i don't even see the reason for this thread.

As a player, Matthews is a premiership standard second row and nothing more he is not an international type player as he is not good enough as he is very limited and he has no point of difference. I don't know what teams are pursuing him at the moment but i cannot think of any other team part from quins in the top 6 where he would start. At sarries and Bath, he is not even a top 4 lock.

To me for Quins to get to the next level and win consistently, you have to get a better back 5, you have robshaw who is international standard in your back five and clifford when fit but i cannot think of another player in your back 5 now who i will describe as international standard, Horwill maybe but, he is getting on with age. If you contrast that with Wasps or Sarries or Bath, Gloucester and Exeter have some meaty back 5 players that you don't have and I think that's where you fall behind and until that is rectified, you won't be serious title contenders. The tigers have the same problem now and that's why with a great back line, they still cannot beat anyone as their back 5 is average at best


The rumors have you signing Symons from wasps, he is not great but there are not many great locks but, he is a much better player than matthews in my opinion

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:17
Who knows if he'll be the same player after injury but Twomey was twice the player Matthews is when both are fit.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:15
I think you are doing a disservice to James Chisholm and early signs are Bothma could be useful.

The rumour on here was Matthews to Saints I thnk

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:28
Quote:
HonkyTonk
I think you are doing a disservice to James Chisholm and early signs are Bothma could be useful.
The rumour on here was Matthews to Saints I thnk

Chisholm is really talented, he was very good at Junior level, not really seen too much of him at the senior level to make a call on future international prospects but he is really talented. I have watched Bothma a fair bit as i watch super rugby, I think he is a good player but not great or what i would describe as an international type player.

Michael Rhodes is someone who i would describe as international class, he was very good when he signed as he played in a very good stormers and western province team but, he has really gone to another level since he joined us and it is no surprise that Eddie has been in touch and I think he will be included in the England squad for the autumn internaionals, he reminds me a lot of Juan Smith the way he plays and as much as Maro and Billy get a lot of credit as they should, Rhodes is every bit as important to our team.

Olly Kohn and George Robson got one cap at international level between them but, I would have described them when they played together as international level players, Easter all those years he did not play for England was still an international level player. You watch players and you can just tell when they have a point of difference.

The question you have to ask yourself is, which quins player in the back five will make an opposition coach prepare extra hard for or force the other team to pay extra attention to.

To win in the premiership or Europe, you need 3 or more to me of those players in your pack and at Quins i just don't think you have that, Robshaw maybe aside.

Coaches will be paying extra attention to Danny Care, Mike Brown, even young Marcus Smith. But they are all backs, you need to get similar type players in the pack as you have a decent pack at the moment who can win the occasional big game, like you seem to do every year at the stoop against us but that pack does not scare anyone in the premiership or in Europe.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:28
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
To me for Quins to get to the next level and win consistently, you have to get a better back 5, you have robshaw who is international standard in your back five and clifford when fit but i cannot think of another player in your back 5 now who i will describe as international standard...

James Chisholm definitely. Former world player of the year after winning a Junior World Cup. Perhaps you should watch him closely.

Renaldo Bothma - Namibian captain. You may not think Namibia produce world class players, but Jaques Burger was no slouch.

Mat Luamanu - maybe not be an international, but as an element of the back row he's a very good addition. Indeed, put together with the other two and I'd struggle to see a more aggressive and powerful back row in the Premiership.

What we don't have is international quality backup, or consistency.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:32
Dont think Luamanu is consistent enough. As for other back rows, Ewers, Simmonds and Armand aint too shabby!!!! With Waldrom and Kvesic as back up



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2018 20:33 by HonkyTonk.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:39
Read that Rhodes was on Jones radar. Good player. With Shields also coming next year the England back row getting a bit crowded maybe

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
ArchQuin (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:41
QK - love your positivity about Quins but do think it is rather misplaced at times - only my opinion mind 😁

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:49
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
To me for Quins to get to the next level and win consistently, you have to get a better back 5, you have robshaw who is international standard in your back five and clifford when fit but i cannot think of another player in your back 5 now who i will describe as international standard...

James Chisholm definitely. Former world player of the year after winning a Junior World Cup. Perhaps you should watch him closely.

Renaldo Bothma - Namibian captain. You may not think Namibia produce world class players, but Jaques Burger was no slouch.

Mat Luamanu - maybe not be an international, but as an element of the back row he's a very good addition. Indeed, put together with the other two and I'd struggle to see a more aggressive and powerful back row in the Premiership.

What we don't have is international quality backup, or consistency.

What top 4 team or even top 6 will take any of the players you mentioned QK, Chisholm maybe for his potential but he certainly won't start at sarries or bath or even Exeter at the moment so i don't see how you can say that back row is more aggressive or powerful than the Exeter back row or the sarries back row with Rhodes, Burger, Billy, Wray or the Bath back row with Faletau, Louw, Garvey, Marcer, Underhill,

I think you have fantastic players in certain parts of your team, In my opinion as i explained in my earlier comments, your back five is not that area

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
QuinAlan (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:52
Quote:
In many ways an example of the mediocrity we've come to accept in the last few years.

Totally agree with that.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:54
Quote:
HonkyTonk
Read that Rhodes was on Jones radar. Good player. With Shields also coming next year the England back row getting a bit crowded maybe

I think it's great Honky, competition in the second row has really brought out the best in the players in the row and i think it has taken Maro, Launchers and Lawes especially to new heights and when you have players like Isiekwe and Ewels coming up, they know they can't rest on their laurels.

From next season, no England back row player can rest easy, Hughes has played well in Billy's absence but Billy was so good today and i am sure he will want to have a good six nations as he knows Hughes is a threat.

Robshaw, Underhill, Haskell, Simmonds will know they have to consistently play well as Rhodes and Shields are both quality players and Rhodes especially has proven in the Northern Hemisphere that he is very good and i expect Shields to do the same.

This competition should hopefully spur the incumbent players on to new heights and make the team ultimately better as you want a very competitive national team. If only that criteria applied to Hooker but, that's another issue for another day

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
TW Quin (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 20:55
Well seem to remember a few years ago chap called JJ learning his trade with us and coming on brilliantly until he was persuaded/ grabbed the North London pound / offshore trust. His development ground to a halt and was last seen at Wuss not sure what caused the nosedive but could speculate!

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 21:05
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Quote:
HonkyTonk
Read that Rhodes was on Jones radar. Good player. With Shields also coming next year the England back row getting a bit crowded maybe

I think it's great Honky, competition in the second row has really brought out the best in the players in the row and i think it has taken Maro, Launchers and Lawes especially to new heights and when you have players like Isiekwe and Ewels coming up, they know they can't rest on their laurels.

From next season, no England back row player can rest easy, Hughes has played well in Billy's absence but Billy was so good today and i am sure he will want to have a good six nations as he knows Hughes is a threat.

Robshaw, Underhill, Haskell, Simmonds will know they have to consistently play well as Rhodes and Shields are both quality players and Rhodes especially has proven in the Northern Hemisphere that he is very good and i expect Shields to do the same.

This competition should hopefully spur the incumbent players on to new heights and make the team ultimately better as you want a very competitive national team. If only that criteria applied to Hooker but, that's another issue for another day

Agree, although I would take out Haskell and add in Curry. Be interesting to see if Graham gets a chance, plus if he can stay fit I like Ewers, and I am also a fan of Armand. While I am at it, I think Wilson has been hard done by and the young player at Wasps, Willis looks handy!!!! As for Hooker, I think SH is another potential worry but like you, say that's prob for another day.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 21:17
Totally agree Honky, I forgot Curry, my bad. I would have him over Haskell and i won't discount his twin either who i think is a fine player.

I like the other guys you mentioned especially Willis, I really think he is going to be a big star in the next few years, he is very physical without being a gym monkey and stiff like Haskell for example, His 18 year old brother Tom also looks very handy and will play for the U20's this year, he is even bigger and taller i think that Jack.

I just think it is such an exciting time as an England fan as we have all these young players and players like Itoje and Billy are still only 23 and 25, Isiekwe is playing regular rugby and is in the England squad as a second row at 19, likewise Smith at only 18. The future looks very bright and after seeing the England teams post 2003 especially the teams from 2006-2010 and how average those teams were. I for one am very happy at the moment.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
07 January, 2018 21:19
Interception try?.......When was that....must have missed that one!

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 21:24

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
The Baptist (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 22:44
What baffles me regarding Matthews development over the past few seasons, is that despite his weight (115kg) and the fact he can actually shift a little (see above), why he is so utterly abysmal at carrying into contact.

Twomey and Merrick are way ahead of him here and are subsequently better at hitting and clearing rucks.

He holds his own in the lineout though.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Rocker (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 00:11
I think the biggest problem with his carrying is that he's just too tall! His centre of gravity must be way up. He tends to be fairly upright when taking contact too.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
DOK (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 14:02
As I say, I wince every time I see him take the ball into contact, but lately he's been fine.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 16:23
By way of comparison, as it has been mentioned as CM's weakness, here are the stats for carrying and metres made for this season in the AP for a select few of our scrum:-

1st: Clifford, 6 games, 64 runs, 169m made = 2.64m/run
2nd: Robshaw, 10 games, 97 runs, 142m made = 1.46m/run
2nd: Matthews, 8 games, 56 runs, 82m made  = 1.46m/run (4 appearances off the bench)
4th: Merrick, 10 games, 50 runs, 60m made  = 1.2m/run (1 appearance off the bench)
5th: Horwill,  8 games, 91 runs, 67m made  = 0.73m/run

So Matthews is the best running second row we have, according to the stats (ESPN). If he's a donkey, what are Merrick (the Mule) and Horwill (the lame horse)?

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 16:30
Cheers Bolly, although turnovers conceded would have been a good stat to view them alongside.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 16:58
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
By way of comparison, as it has been mentioned as CM's weakness, here are the stats for carrying and metres made for this season in the AP for a select few of our scrum:-
1st: Clifford, 6 games, 64 runs, 169m made = 2.64m/run
2nd: Robshaw, 10 games, 97 runs, 142m made = 1.46m/run
2nd: Matthews, 8 games, 56 runs, 82m made  = 1.46m/run (4 appearances off the bench)
4th: Merrick, 10 games, 50 runs, 60m made  = 1.2m/run (1 appearance off the bench)
5th: Horwill,  8 games, 91 runs, 67m made  = 0.73m/run

So Matthews is the best running second row we have, according to the stats (ESPN). If he's a donkey, what are Merrick (the Mule) and Horwill (the lame horse)?

I am big fan of analytics and i love this. I guess Matthews is not doing so badly for you if he is your best carrying second row. It will be interesting to see where he ranks in terms of turnovers won, line out steals, all the other stats that pertains to second rows.

The other thing is, if Matthews is your best second row, no offense, I can't see you getting near the top 4 as he is good but not a top 4 team's best second row.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Cookie (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 17:30
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
By way of comparison, as it has been mentioned as CM's weakness, here are the stats for carrying and metres made for this season in the AP for a select few of our scrum:-
1st: Clifford, 6 games, 64 runs, 169m made = 2.64m/run
2nd: Robshaw, 10 games, 97 runs, 142m made = 1.46m/run
2nd: Matthews, 8 games, 56 runs, 82m made  = 1.46m/run (4 appearances off the bench)
4th: Merrick, 10 games, 50 runs, 60m made  = 1.2m/run (1 appearance off the bench)
5th: Horwill,  8 games, 91 runs, 67m made  = 0.73m/run

So Matthews is the best running second row we have, according to the stats (ESPN). If he's a donkey, what are Merrick (the Mule) and Horwill (the lame horse)?

I am big fan of analytics and i love this. I guess Matthews is not doing so badly for you if he is your best carrying second row. It will be interesting to see where he ranks in terms of turnovers won, line out steals, all the other stats that pertains to second rows.

The other thing is, if Matthews is your best second row, no offense, I can't see you getting near the top 4 as he is good but not a top 4 team's best second row.

He's not. He's probably 4th or 5th choice. Maybe not even that high when everyone's fit.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 17:35
Not suggesting he's the best second row, BarnetS12! But he's not nearly as bad as some on here scream about.

Turnovers conceded and Lineout steals are there (on ESPN), but lineouts won is awarded to the thrower, not the receiver, so I didn't look at those in depth, QP. The other fact about turnovers conceded with "rampaging" forwards is that if support isn't there and they get picked off, it sent always their fault: I am occasionally hoarse with screaming at players or telly to support - our support of runners is nowhere as good as it needs to be.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
T-Bone (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 17:37
While I'm not in any way disagreeing that fit and on form Twomey looks like a better player, I suspect most people are basing that on early season form last season and maybe the season before, before he got crocked. He wasn't actually ahead of Matthews in the pecking order for that long if memory serves. By the time he was starting ahead of him on a regular basis, he got badly injured shortly after.

I think therefore to say he's a much better player has to be heavily caveated, as all players go through peaks and troughs in form, and I'm not convinced Twomey has been better than him for a long enough period to say with any certainty that he's definitely a much better player

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 17:41
I'd suggest the he's currently third choice this season, so far, tied with Glynn and if he's off at the end of the season, he'll be playing a lot of dead rubber (i.e. Euro and AW) games to "protect" our others. He's much better than Merrick in the line out and makes more metres...

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 19:31
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Not suggesting he's the best second row, BarnetS12! But he's not nearly as bad as some on here scream about.
Turnovers conceded and Lineout steals are there (on ESPN), but lineouts won is awarded to the thrower, not the receiver, so I didn't look at those in depth, QP. The other fact about turnovers conceded with "rampaging" forwards is that if support isn't there and they get picked off, it sent always their fault: I am occasionally hoarse with screaming at players or telly to support - our support of runners is nowhere as good as it needs to be.

I agree, while i am not his biggest fan. I don't see why people necessarily bash him, all the other guys like Twomey and Merrick, I have not seen them be consistently better than Matthews but i will concede, i obviously don't watch as many games as you guys but I have watched quite a few quins games this year as i now live in Richmond and been to the stoop twice this year and from what I have watched this season, I don't think any of the other guys can be said to be much if at all better than Matthews. They could potentially be better but i don't think they are better at the moment. I don't see any quins lock tearing down trees like an Ewels or an Isiekwe for example so I don't get the Matthews hate, the others in my opinion are not much better

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
09 January, 2018 10:53
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Not suggesting he's the best second row, BarnetS12! But he's not nearly as bad as some on here scream about.
Turnovers conceded and Lineout steals are there (on ESPN), but lineouts won is awarded to the thrower, not the receiver, so I didn't look at those in depth, QP. The other fact about turnovers conceded with "rampaging" forwards is that if support isn't there and they get picked off, it sent always their fault: I am occasionally hoarse with screaming at players or telly to support - our support of runners is nowhere as good as it needs to be.

I agree, while i am not his biggest fan. I don't see why people necessarily bash him, all the other guys like Twomey and Merrick, I have not seen them be consistently better than Matthews but i will concede, i obviously don't watch as many games as you guys but I have watched quite a few quins games this year as i now live in Richmond and been to the stoop twice this year and from what I have watched this season, I don't think any of the other guys can be said to be much if at all better than Matthews. They could potentially be better but i don't think they are better at the moment. I don't see any quins lock tearing down trees like an Ewels or an Isiekwe for example so I don't get the Matthews hate, the others in my opinion are not much better


Ah, my son, from the dark side rescuing you we are smiling smiley



Rodders you p-lonker!

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
09 January, 2018 11:08
In answer to the thread title: No, he isn't.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
arniepie (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 15:09
Barnetsarries, if merrick isnt rated that highly by you why did Saracens go balls out to sign him?? He turned them down and took a pay cut to stay with quins, like him or not to me that shows commitment to the Quins cause and itís not always about money

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 19:54
Arnie, I can't remember sarries trying to sign Merrick but maybe you have some information we don't have, so i don't agree with going balls out to sign him. Even if he had come to sarries, he would have been behind Itoje and Kruis so i don't see why he would do it anyways and if he came now, would be behind those two, Isiekwe and Skelton

Merrick is a good player, I just have not seen anything that makes him much better than Matthews and i doubt sarries went "balls" out to sign him.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Mayor West (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 20:05
I remember that when he extended his contract with us that it was well known that Saracens had tried to sign him but he chose to stay. It was quite flattering to know that they wanted another one of ours.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
ironquin (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 22:09
Charlie Matthews joined the Harlequins EPDG system at 15 and split his time in the Harlequins Academy with studying a foundation degree in Sports Science and Sports Management at Loughborough University. The Kingston born second row has represented England U18s and took part in the Junior World Championships in 2010 and 2011.

After a successful 2013/14 season, Matthews was called into the England XV squad to play the Barbarians.

The 6'7" second row has made more than 100 appearances in the Harlequins shirt and in the 2016/17 season won the DHL Supporters' Player of the Month award twice.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
10 January, 2018 23:48
Quote:
arniepie
Barnetsarries, if merrick isnt rated that highly by you why did Saracens go balls out to sign him?? He turned them down and took a pay cut to stay with quins, like him or not to me that shows commitment to the Quins cause and itís not always about money

And Eddie Jones rates him, which is a good sign.

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
arniepie (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 06:22
Barnetsarries, the rugby paper, the metro, the daily mail and the telegraph all ran an article on the fact that he turned down Saracens to stay at Quins, in November 2016,

 
Re: Charlie Matthews is a useless donkey
T-Bone (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 15:14
Merrick may well have turned Sarries down, but hard to argue he wouldn't be behind at least Itoje, Isiekwe and Kruis, probably Skelton too.

I agree that I don't see why he should be considered considerably, or in fact any, better than Matthews. Different type of player, so hard to make direct comparisons, and I suppose it's all very subjective anyway.

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