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TMO vs Ref vs Reality
DangerQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:02
Outrageous decision making process at the end there.

TMO: "No clear and obvious touch"

Ref: "We're going to go with touch"

Reality: It was either in touch, or it wasn't. The ref's wording "we're going to go with touch" makes it explicit that he isn't sure, in which instance, it should not be given as touch. He's stated it as an opinion, which should never be the deciding factor in the outcome of a professional sports match. Had he said "I can categorically say that Robshaw's shirt is on the line" then no one has reason to be irked, but he didn't. Shambolic TMO processes.

Just my two pence.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
thomh (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:03
What question did he ask the TMO? Try or no try? If so, the decision is fine.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
Dave L (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:04
Carley is one of the few refs that when I watch the game back I still donít understand his decisions.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
DangerQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:04
As I recall he said "I'd like to check touch, and then the grounding", but don't quote me on that.

Even if that were the case, then it's the process/question asked that needs to be reviewed.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
Portquin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:05
Yeah pretty embarrassing from the ref.....I was under the impression benefit should go to the attacking team....hence no clear and obvious = Try....

Ref looking at a big grainy TV over rules TMO?!...TMO should have stood his ground rather than backing down to the ref.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:07
Quote:
thomh
What question did he ask the TMO? Try or no try? If so, the decision is fine.

Neither was asked. He clearly didn't want to award the try.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
TeddingtonQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:07
Yes, I think that is what he asked

Rather than blaming the ref for the loss (incorrectly IMHO), we should be looking closer to home and asking why we had only 14 players on the pitch for the last 20 odd minutes. THAT is why we lost it. Robshaw was clearly in touch, the refmade the correct decision although maybe he didn't explain it well



West Stand, Block FD, Row S
@JT075 #COYQ

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
TeddingtonQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:10
Quote:
Portquin
Yeah pretty embarrassing from the ref.....I was under the impression benefit should go to the attacking team....hence no clear and obvious = Try....
Ref looking at a big grainy TV over rules TMO?!...TMO should have stood his ground rather than backing down to the ref.

Quote:
Quinten Poulsen

Neither was asked. He clearly didn't want to award the try.

Robshaw was clearly in touch, the ref's decision was correct!



West Stand, Block FD, Row S
@JT075 #COYQ

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:11
Quote:
thomh
What question did he ask the TMO? Try or no try? If so, the decision is fine.

If it was TRY or NO TRY then should he not have given the try??? Im basing that on the fact that there is no way him, the touch judge or the TMO could see Robshaw in touch, during live play or on the replay. Based on how many times he had to review that shows he was unsure if he was in touch. Unless you can prove he was in touch he must be fine??

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
DangerQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:11
We also lost due to a terrible start. 14-0 after 10 minute was embarrassing.

And yes, there are loads of other reasons we lost, but this thread is about the TMO incident at the end, as outlined in the thread title.

It cannot be refuted that, as stated, it was the deciding factor in the outcome of the match.

Touch = Sale win

Try = Quins win

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:12
Quote:
TeddingtonQuin
Quote:
Portquin
Yeah pretty embarrassing from the ref.....I was under the impression benefit should go to the attacking team....hence no clear and obvious = Try....
Ref looking at a big grainy TV over rules TMO?!...TMO should have stood his ground rather than backing down to the ref.

Quote:
Quinten Poulsen

Neither was asked. He clearly didn't want to award the try.

Robshaw was clearly in touch, the ref's decision was correct!

It was so clear that the TMO couldn't tell and they ref said he only thought he was in touch.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
DOK (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:14
Ref asked "Can you check touch please, Keith? Then try yes or no with the grounding"

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:16
Quote:
TeddingtonQuin
Quote:
Portquin
Yeah pretty embarrassing from the ref.....I was under the impression benefit should go to the attacking team....hence no clear and obvious = Try....
Ref looking at a big grainy TV over rules TMO?!...TMO should have stood his ground rather than backing down to the ref.

Quote:
Quinten Poulsen

Neither was asked. He clearly didn't want to award the try.

Robshaw was clearly in touch, the ref's decision was correct!

Unless there was another angle I dod not see on my stream (which there may have been) he was not clearly in touch. He may have been in touch at some point but based on what the TMO saw it could not be confirmed, so you must award the try.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
TeddingtonQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:16
Looked pretty clear to me from the angle looking towards the try line. Possible TMO didn't want to commit a decision and ref was looking at the big screen which likely isn't as clear as the HD pic on Rugby Pass smiling smiley



West Stand, Block FD, Row S
@JT075 #COYQ

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:21
Quote:
TeddingtonQuin
Looked pretty clear to me from the angle looking towards the try line. Possible TMO didn't want to commit a decision and ref was looking at the big screen which likely isn't as clear as the HD pic on Rugby Pass smiling smiley

If that is the case there is not much point having a TMO!!! (Im not trying to have a pop here by the way, just trying to understand the decision which I think between them all they go wrong)

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
TeddingtonQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:22
Quote:
DangerQuin
We also lost due to a terrible start. 14-0 after 10 minute was embarrassing.
And yes, there are loads of other reasons we lost, but this thread is about the TMO incident at the end, as outlined in the thread title.

It cannot be refuted that, as stated, it was the deciding factor in the outcome of the match.

Touch = Sale win

Try = Quins win

If you're being that picky, the thread title is only about the ref and his grasp of reality or not. It says nothing about it referring to the incident at the end of the match, nor about the outcome smiling smiley

It also can't be stated that it was the defining incident of the match. I'd say that Marler's red (entirely correct decision) had a greater effect. Had he not been sent off, the final incident wouldn't have happened



West Stand, Block FD, Row S
@JT075 #COYQ

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
TeddingtonQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:25
Quote:
HonkyTonk
Quote:
TeddingtonQuin
Looked pretty clear to me from the angle looking towards the try line. Possible TMO didn't want to commit a decision and ref was looking at the big screen which likely isn't as clear as the HD pic on Rugby Pass smiling smiley

If that is the case there is not much point having a TMO!!! (Im not trying to have a pop here by the way, just trying to understand the decision which I think between them all they go wrong)

I wouldn't disagree with you there. Having any official dodging a decision isn't good and that reasoning was only my speculation but on my TV, the HD image showed Robshaw in touch



West Stand, Block FD, Row S
@JT075 #COYQ

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
Roaming Quin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:29
Although Marler seeing red was a big game changer I really am getting annoyed with the decisions to go for the corner only to turn over the ball a winnng mentality would go for points put the game out of reach then go for fourth try.

Marler should know better and needs to be dealt with harshly he is a senior player and seasoned international not to mention role model. Poor

Just shows was if teams donít roll over we ainít that good.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:30
Well, if you have seen it and it is clear fair enough. I must say every angle I have seen you cannot tell. Surely "Nothing Clear and obvious" means you award the try

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:32
Quote:
Roaming Quin
Although Marler seeing red was a big game changer I really am getting annoyed with the decisions to go for the corner only to turn over the ball a winnng mentality would go for points put the game out of reach then go for fourth try.
Marler should know better and needs to be dealt with harshly he is a senior player and seasoned international not to mention role model. Poor

Just shows was if teams donít roll over we ainít that good.

Smith did miss a pretty easy kick for 3 points

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:32
Quote:
HonkyTonk
Surely "Nothing Clear and obvious" means you award the try

Normally that's the case, but the ref had other ideas.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
TeddingtonQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:35
Quote:
Roaming Quin
Although Marler seeing red was a big game changer I really am getting annoyed with the decisions to go for the corner only to turn over the ball a winnng mentality would go for points put the game out of reach then go for fourth try.
Marler should know better and needs to be dealt with harshly he is a senior player and seasoned international not to mention role model. Poor

Just shows was if teams donít roll over we ainít that good.

Yes, that has been a standard of Ward's captaincy and I'd have thought we would have learnt by now that we're not great at attacking mauls anymore. As much as I like Wardy's play, I don't agree with him going for the corner every time. Marcus Smith didn't do too well today kicking from the tee either

I think we played well 2nd half (I didn't see the 1st) and would have won comfortably without the Marler brain fart



West Stand, Block FD, Row S
@JT075 #COYQ

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
DangerQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:39
Quote:
TeddingtonQuin
Quote:
DangerQuin
We also lost due to a terrible start. 14-0 after 10 minute was embarrassing.
And yes, there are loads of other reasons we lost, but this thread is about the TMO incident at the end, as outlined in the thread title.

It cannot be refuted that, as stated, it was the deciding factor in the outcome of the match.

Touch = Sale win

Try = Quins win

If you're being that picky, the thread title is only about the ref and his grasp of reality or not. It says nothing about it referring to the incident at the end of the match, nor about the outcome smiling smiley

It also can't be stated that it was the defining incident of the match. I'd say that Marler's red (entirely correct decision) had a greater effect. Had he not been sent off, the final incident wouldn't have happened

I hear you. Yet, if we are being picky, I said it was the 'deciding factor' - not the 'defining incident'. ;-)

As for saying earlier incidents in the match had the bigger impact we're straying into the realms of chaos theory. Who knows, if Marler hadn't been a complete buffoon, we wouldn't have given away the penalty but what may have come thereafter is pure conjecture.

Irrespective of what had come before, the referee's decision decided the outcome of the game, surely that cannot be disputed??

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
Roaming Quin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:47
Yes Smith did but we turned down at least 3 kickable that we did not score from the corner. Also his miss hit the post so not a shocker. So out of 4 if we would have scored twice that 6 points and a 5 point win. Go for corner score nothing we ended up with a 2 point loss.

This is not the 1st game where we have done this, we need to get the mentality to go for points.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
TeddingtonQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:56
Quote:
DangerQuin
Quote:
TeddingtonQuin
Quote:
DangerQuin
We also lost due to a terrible start. 14-0 after 10 minute was embarrassing.
And yes, there are loads of other reasons we lost, but this thread is about the TMO incident at the end, as outlined in the thread title.

It cannot be refuted that, as stated, it was the deciding factor in the outcome of the match.

Touch = Sale win

Try = Quins win

If you're being that picky, the thread title is only about the ref and his grasp of reality or not. It says nothing about it referring to the incident at the end of the match, nor about the outcome smiling smiley

It also can't be stated that it was the defining incident of the match. I'd say that Marler's red (entirely correct decision) had a greater effect. Had he not been sent off, the final incident wouldn't have happened

I hear you. Yet, if we are being picky, I said it was the 'deciding factor' - not the 'defining incident'. ;-)

As for saying earlier incidents in the match had the bigger impact we're straying into the realms of chaos theory. Who knows, if Marler hadn't been a complete buffoon, we wouldn't have given away the penalty but what may have come thereafter is pure conjecture.

Irrespective of what had come before, the referee's decision decided the outcome of the game, surely that cannot be disputed??

The laws of the game decided the outcome, the ref was just adhering to them and made the correct decision, Robshaw's ar$e was in touch! He may not have communicated it well but he was correct in the decision!



West Stand, Block FD, Row S
@JT075 #COYQ

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
DangerQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 18:50
Well, the TMO would disagree with you on that one.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
TeddingtonQuin (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 19:33
I think the TMO was wrong or bottled the decision. For me, Robshaw was clearly in touch



West Stand, Block FD, Row S
@JT075 #COYQ

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
miami mike (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 20:25
[quote TeddingtonQuin]Looked pretty clear to me from the angle looking towards the try line. Possible TMO didn't want to commit a decision and ref was looking at the big screen which likely isn't as clear as the HD pic on Rugby Pass smiling smiley[/quote
I was 30 metres from the big screen Carney watched. Nobody near me could understand why the tmo made such a palaver of it. Clear as you like that Robshaw was in touch.
Sale were basically going through the motions until Marlers red gave them a lifeline. Pillock. 3 points thrown away.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
Mayor West (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 20:31
Some footage would help I anybody can oblige.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 06:14
From my vipbox stream it looked as though Robshaws had offloaded the ball just before touching the line.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
Months KYT (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 07:21
Well Iím glad they donít use your stream to make decisions then . His doup was clearly in touch

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
FredRBP (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 08:22
Don't be bitter that the ref ignored the TMO's bad eye sight- he was clearly (albeit only slightly and briefly) in touch

 
Re: TMO vs Ref vs Reality
Months KYT (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 08:27
Quote:
FredRBP
Don't be bitter that the ref ignored the TMO's bad eye sight- he was clearly (albeit only slightly and briefly) in touch

Correct


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