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Defence & Discipline
Cookie (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:19
Conceded 30 points again and a red card alongside multiple stupid penalities.

A lot of good today, but if we're not going to sort these areas, we won't win games like this.

Remember, we were warm favourites for this game and had control of it after 20 mins or so, but this is the type of performance we're lumbered with.

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:34
Quote:
Cookie
Conceded 30 points again and a red card alongside multiple stupid penalities.
A lot of good today, but if we're not going to sort these areas, we won't win games like this.

Remember, we were warm favourites for this game and had control of it after 20 mins or so, but this is the type of performance we're lumbered with.

Not really sure what you mean, yes there were mistakes on both sides, the deciding factor in this game was Joe Marler losing his head.

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:40
Sure, Marler was the deciding factor but the defence was atrocious for their first two tries. Plus there was Visser's totally pointless and stupid decision to pull De Klerk over when we were attacking a few meters from their try line.

I often wonder why we have a club psychologist. Its not hard to not be a moron, you just don't do moronic things.

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:47
We gave them a 14 point lead and that was before Marlers moment of stupidity.

Same problems most weeks and seemingly no attempt to sort it out.

Marlers idiocy isn't a coaching issue. But there were a lot others on show today...again.

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
Stooperman (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 17:48
Agree with this thread wholeheartedly, but as I posted on the match thread, I think its 3 Ds. In addition to defence and discipline, there's dumbness. Our players often do stupid things for no apparent reason, & this also needs to be addressed.

I thought in the Saints game there were signs of better line speed and co-ordination in defence, but this may have been Saints ineptitude rather than us improving.

Ah well, some more unlikely victories, infuriating defeats, mindless optimism and black, dark despair to come this season no doubt. All part of being a Quins fan!

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
DOK (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 19:49
There was also that final lineout of the game. Charlie Matthews stupidly interfered with their jumper in the air, they cleared their lines, lineout, maul, countdown the clock and game over. If he's left the guy alone they'd have either had to run it out from their try line or boot us back possession for one last hurrah!

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
miami mike (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 20:16
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Sure, Marler was the deciding factor but the defence was atrocious for their first two tries.......

First try totally agree.Very simple play from Sale defeated an apparently well set defence
Second try came from a very marginal lateish hit by their 9 on Care, from which the defence never recovered any shape and there was some excellent passing play by Sale especially their 8 and 15.

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
07 January, 2018 11:42
Totally disagree that Marlers brain fart 'isn't a Coaches issue'......If the players had a little more respect for JK they might think twice before being morons.

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
arniepie (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 12:07
Marlers head went before his silliness, he was arguing with the ref over an incident which caused his ear injury, at this point he should have been subbed as the coaches know he has a short fuse

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
DOK (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 12:20
Ah, hindsight! So sharp! So right! smiling smiley

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 12:35
Quote:
Harleys Evil Step Mum
Totally disagree that Marlers brain fart 'isn't a Coaches issue'......If the players had a little more respect for JK they might think twice before being morons.

I wondered how long it would take to link Marlers stupidity to JK.

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
Months KYT (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 11:25
Quote:
Bedfordshire Boy
Quote:
Harleys Evil Step Mum
Totally disagree that Marlers brain fart 'isn't a Coaches issue'......If the players had a little more respect for JK they might think twice before being morons.

I wondered how long it would take to link Marlers stupidity to JK.
Well it is isnít it ?

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 11:48
Quote:
Months KYT
Quote:
Bedfordshire Boy
Quote:
Harleys Evil Step Mum
Totally disagree that Marlers brain fart 'isn't a Coaches issue'......If the players had a little more respect for JK they might think twice before being morons.

I wondered how long it would take to link Marlers stupidity to JK.
Well it is isnít it ?

Marler has had the ability to be a bit of a plank long before JK was made DOR to be fair.

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 15:09
Quote:
Months KYT
Quote:
Bedfordshire Boy
Quote:
Harleys Evil Step Mum
Totally disagree that Marlers brain fart 'isn't a Coaches issue'......If the players had a little more respect for JK they might think twice before being morons.

I wondered how long it would take to link Marlers stupidity to JK.
Well it is isnít it ?

On the pitch, it is Marler's and the Skipper's, surely.

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
DOK (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 18:49
I was wondering about this today. I am currently dying of man flu, so off work. I was watching the darts program on TV. There was a game on where one of the darts players really couldn't get it together - he'd occasionally throw 100, but more often 60 or less.

How much could a fan jump up and down and blame his darts coach for his lack of ability, poor performance or wrong mental attitude? Could you blame his manager?

When you saw Northampton playing poorly last week, was that the coaches fault, the players fault, the stand in DOR's fault?

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 18:54
Did that player grab the board and smack someone over the head with it though, or throw a few darts into the crowd in a rage???

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
DOK (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 18:58
Well it might have kept me watching if he had!

But good question, if he had grabbed the board and smacked someone with it - is there someone you could blame except the player? HESM managed to link JK and Marler's red card. Is that fair?

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 19:03
It is a tough question. For example, would Marler have done that playing for England/Jones

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
DOK (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 19:17
Unfortunately I believe the answer is "Yes". Marler has a bunch of demons in him and all the professional help in the world doesn't seem to have managed to exorcise those demons. Marler's still shown a propensity to react even after his issues with anger management for England, even when playing for England. I know some of it is that he's more of a target than he was before, but he's got to learn to get past that.

To a certain extent, I half wish he gets a ban that end his season. If that's what it takes to finally make him sort out the problem, then it'll hurt Harlequins like hell, but in the long term us and England will be the better for it (assuming he still has an England place).

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 19:25
Yeah. I dont think it will hurt his England place missing out, wont help but ultimately he will be back. Genge and Mullan both injured so they cannot take advantage during the 6N. Will hurt his chance of being number one though.

Back to the game, if it was a reaction to an earlier challenge from Ioane it makes it worse for me. It wasn't an immediate reaction, it happened some time after the Ioane hit so he had time to think about it. He even received treatment for his cut in between. Makes you wonder if none of the players/coaches saw he need a word said to him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2018 19:28 by HonkyTonk.

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
DOK (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 20:17
Well I assume a number of players/coaches missed the incident altogether. Then we don't know if anyone actually did have a word! Also, with Joe having supposedly got his anger issues dealt with professionally, maybe they just assumed he could deal with it. And maybe some folk assumed Joe would get his revenge (as presumably has happened in other games), but assumed he'd be a bit more subtle about it!

While maybe if a coach could have had a word, it might have made a difference, I really think in this case it's the player's responsibility to deal with provocation/retaliation issues. A coach can do so much, but this isn't remote control.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2018 20:20 by DOK.

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
08 January, 2018 21:08
Indeed DOK, a player of his experience and nous should be able to control himself on his own.

 
Re: Defence & Discipline
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
09 January, 2018 07:29
Quote:
HonkyTonk
It is a tough question. For example, would Marler have done that playing for England/Jones

He was carded in NZ, was he not? Lions, not England...


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