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Visser
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 17:22
Dont know how true it is but Rugbypass has suggested Visser, who is OOC at the end of the season is attracting interest from France

 
Re: Visser
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 17:45
Well he's been a cracking player for us so I'm sure lots of clubs are looking at him.

 
Re: Visser
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 18:27
Would be a real shame if we lost him but I suspect we can't match the potential salary available to him in France.

 
Re: Visser
Fursty (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 18:32
I really hope we can keep him too - however I couldn't blame him for thinking a move to the South of France sounds quite appealing.

 
Re: Visser
blucherquin (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 18:35
Is he at that stage of his career? And does it make any difference with Scotland? Or do we think hes not going make it to Japan anyway?

 
Re: Visser
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 19:21
Quote:
blucherquin
Is he at that stage of his career? And does it make any difference with Scotland? Or do we think he�s not going make it to Japan anyway?

Not sure how it works with Scotland but he seems to have been overlooked by them recently anyway.

There's quite a few Scots playing overseas aren't there?

 
Re: Visser
blucherquin (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 21:31
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
blucherquin
Is he at that stage of his career? And does it make any difference with Scotland? Or do we think he�s not going make it to Japan anyway?

Not sure how it works with Scotland but he seems to have been overlooked by them recently anyway.

There's quite a few Scots playing overseas aren't there?

Yes dont think they can have a rule. But France is still a get paid for the final two seasons gig mainly isnt it?

 
Re: Visser
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 22:14
Quote:
blucherquin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
blucherquin
Is he at that stage of his career? And does it make any difference with Scotland? Or do we think he�s not going make it to Japan anyway?

Not sure how it works with Scotland but he seems to have been overlooked by them recently anyway.

There's quite a few Scots playing overseas aren't there?

Yes don�t think they can have a rule. But France is still a �get paid for the final two seasons� gig mainly isn�t it?

I think it is for some who have been frozen out at international level.

But if there are no restrictions on where you can play to be picked for your country, I think we'll see more heading over in their prime.

 
Re: Visser
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 22:14
Quote:
talkshowhost86
...I think we'll see more heading over in their prime.

Scottish players?

 
Re: Visser
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 22:32
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
...I think we'll see more heading over in their prime.

Scottish players?

Any who aren't restricted by international considerations.

Ultimately I worry we'll see everyone heading that way if the salary cap isn't removed elsewhere.

 
Re: Visser
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 22:30
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Quote:
talkshowhost86
...I think we'll see more heading over in their prime.

Scottish players?

Any who aren't restricted by international considerations.

Ultimately I worry we'll see everyone heading that way if the salary cap isn't removed elsewhere.

If the cap is removed in England I imagine there will be an influx of foreign players.

 
Re: Visser
Brown Bottle (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 22:35
Quote:
If the cap is removed in England I imagine there will be an influx of foreign players.

Cap? Really?



BB

 
Re: Visser
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 22:40
Quote:
Brown Bottle
Quote:
If the cap is removed in England I imagine there will be an influx of foreign players.

Cap? Really?

Yes. If a team could spend as much as they like, I'm sure some would try to recruit a Toulon-esque squad.

 
Re: Visser
Wyddy (IP Logged)
23 January, 2018 23:32
Visser has had at least two falling outs with Kingston over non selection... I wouldn't be surprised if he took an escape route.

 
Re: Visser
dr_miles (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 09:14
Finn Russell is moving to France, which is clearly not going to hinder his selection prospects, so Visser might think the same.

 
Re: Visser
T-Bone (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 11:20
Would be a real shame if he went and would leave us short on options unless we're signing someone else, but I wouldn't really blame him as I imagine he'll get a big pay increase and it probably won't hugely affect his chances of a Scotland call up. Also slightly easier to see family in the Netherlands, though not exactly a difficult journey from SW London. Throw in the rumours of being unhappy with JK and this rumour looks more likely than some we've heard.

If he goes and we don't sign anyone else, we'd have Walker and Earle as obvious first choice, Alofa when he's not covering 13, then the academy guys and the wing/fullbakcs in Morris and Chisholm.

I know we have quite a few in the academy, but would leave us short of experience.

Anyway, just rumours for now, but I hope he stays. The intercept king

 
Re: Visser
DOK (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 11:57
And a professional. Unlike the Yarde strop, if he did have a disagreement with JK (or it may have been with one of the other coaches for all I know), he didn't sulk or not turn up for runs or things. He grafted and has performed for the team. Good man!

I'd hope we'll see a "Tim Visser has signed a new contract" notice before the end of the season.

 
Re: Visser
BuckQuin (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 12:09
Quote:
T-Bone
Would be a real shame if he went and would leave us short on options unless we're signing someone else, but I wouldn't really blame him as I imagine he'll get a big pay increase and it probably won't hugely affect his chances of a Scotland call up. Also slightly easier to see family in the Netherlands, though not exactly a difficult journey from SW London. Throw in the rumours of being unhappy with JK and this rumour looks more likely than some we've heard.
If he goes and we don't sign anyone else, we'd have Walker and Earle as obvious first choice, Alofa when he's not covering 13, then the academy guys and the wing/fullbakcs in Morris and Chisholm.

I know we have quite a few in the academy, but would leave us short of experience.

Anyway, just rumours for now, but I hope he stays. The intercept king

Issue is there isn't an unlimited squad budget. You could argue Earle, Visser, Walker would all expect to start week-in, week-out and eventually that situation leaves one of the 3 disgruntled. As long as we can get Mikalcius fit again and Ibitoye can start picking up game time, we have quality cover and Visser leaving wouldn't upset me too much. He has been one half of our best try scoring wing duo (with Walker) in recent memory, but evidence suggests Earle is more than capable of finishing prolifically to the same extent.

I'd rather we spent money on another top class hooker, second row and number 8.

P.S. this is my first message on this board for a number of years. I used to have another login but I can't for the life of me remember what it was!

 
Re: Visser
Mr_B (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 13:19
Visser is a class act and can't believe he's not had more call ups, would be gutted to lose him.

 
Re: Visser
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 13:29
Aspland-Robinson (or Robertson?) is also in the wings (doh!), but is very fast and an Ex-England U20 star. Currently injured.

 
Re: Visser
blucherquin (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 13:32
On the France and money thing - Care said about Cipriani that he wouldnt earn much more in France than at Wasps so its really a decision about if he thinks hes got a shot at England for 2019

 
Re: Visser
quinsfan123 (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 13:52
I agree with Buckquin, whilst losing Visser would be a blow it is certainly one we can take. Aside, from Walker and Earle who would be obvious first choice starters we have Mikalcius in the academy who is a similar sort of player to Visser. While, Cheeseman is also more than capable of plating on the wing. And lets not forget Ibitoye, Aspland-Robinson and Murley in the academy too.

In fact the loss of Visser could help us by freeing up some money in the salary cap to strengthen other areas of our squad - the pack for instance, where another big forward could help to propel us up the table fro next season.

 
Re: Visser
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 13:56
Would it be better to lose Visser, or Walker, if it came to the crunch?

 
Re: Visser
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 14:19
Quote:
quinsfan123
I agree with Buckquin, whilst losing Visser would be a blow it is certainly one we can take. Aside, from Walker and Earle who would be obvious first choice starters we have Mikalcius in the academy who is a similar sort of player to Visser. While, Cheeseman is also more than capable of plating on the wing. And lets not forget Ibitoye, Aspland-Robinson and Murley in the academy too.
In fact the loss of Visser could help us by freeing up some money in the salary cap to strengthen other areas of our squad - the pack for instance, where another big forward could help to propel us up the table fro next season.

I think you may be jumping the gun a bit with young Jonas there.

 
Re: Visser
BuckQuin (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 14:21
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Would it be better to lose Visser, or Walker, if it came to the crunch?

Imo we have to keep Walker. He's the unique, free-running, Christian Wade-esque winger that doesn't come around too often. Earle and Mikalcius give us the ballast and straight line speed on the left wing. I don't disagree that Visser has been brilliant for us - one of the best wingers we've had - but he's not irreplaceable and we have good depth of talent on the wing. Especially when you take into account the utility backs who can cover there - Alofa, Chis etc...

 
Re: Visser
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 14:55
Quote:
BuckQuin
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Would it be better to lose Visser, or Walker, if it came to the crunch?

Imo we have to keep Walker. He's the unique, free-running, Christian Wade-esque winger that doesn't come around too often. Earle and Mikalcius give us the ballast and straight line speed on the left wing. I don't disagree that Visser has been brilliant for us - one of the best wingers we've had - but he's not irreplaceable and we have good depth of talent on the wing. Especially when you take into account the utility backs who can cover there - Alofa, Chis etc...

It's a fair point. I like Charlie and his pace is blistering. Going forward he's a real threat. His defence seems better this season too.

I also like Tim as he's a real handful and is great when chasing kicks. I'm not sure about his defence though - can't say I've seen him defend that much. I guess he can't be too bad!

 
Re: Visser
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 15:20
Are we still not linked with the Argentinian winger?? He was said to be on his way to the Prem, Tigers were linked but seemed to have dropped out.

 
Re: Visser
Cookie (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 15:25
Wouldn't want to be going in to next season with Walker, Earle and then a bunch of untested/utility players. He'd have to be replaced as Earler replaced Yarde.

 
Re: Visser
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 15:34
Quote:
Cookie
Wouldn't want to be going in to next season with Walker, Earle and then a bunch of untested/utility players. He'd have to be replaced as Earler replaced Yarde.

Plus two of those youngsters would be coming back after around a year out injured

 
Re: Visser
WellingQuin (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 15:55
Quote:
HonkyTonk
Are we still not linked with the Argentinian winger?? He was said to be on his way to the Prem, Tigers were linked but seemed to have dropped out.

Santiago Cordero? I saw that original link/rumour but haven't heard anything for a while. Last I saw was that he could be joining Exeter, although I can't quite remember where I read that.

 
Re: Visser
quinsfan123 (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 16:00
Whilst, Visser can be untouchable in attack at times this season his defensive work is still liable to scrutiny, with too many missed tackles at important times in games. Does he really warrant an improved contract extension?

 
Re: Visser
Rocker (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 16:04
I'd be disapointe d if we were to lose him, I think Micklaus would be a good replacment as the big hard runnning winger, but in a couple of years time, not now! We do have a lot of wings/outside centres/full backs, but not enough to lose a nailed on starter like Visser and not replace him. I hope that whatever the issues were with the coaches that they won't impact on his staying. I wonder if it was to do with Yarde as we haven't seen him missing out since Yarde left?

 
Re: Visser
fandg2 (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 16:42
Quote:
HonkyTonk
Quote:
Cookie
Wouldn't want to be going in to next season with Walker, Earle and then a bunch of untested/utility players. He'd have to be replaced as Earler replaced Yarde.

Plus two of those youngsters would be coming back after around a year out injured

Not necessarily disagreeing that he would need replacing, but I would'nt call Chis snr, Alofa or Cheeseman for that matter untested utility players. It would'nt be the end of the world

 
Re: Visser
raedarius (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 16:50
Quote:
Rocker
I'd be disapointe d if we were to lose him, I think Micklaus would be a good replacment as the big hard runnning winger, but in a couple of years time, not now! We do have a lot of wings/outside centres/full backs, but not enough to lose a nailed on starter like Visser and not replace him. I hope that whatever the issues were with the coaches that they won't impact on his staying. I wonder if it was to do with Yarde as we haven't seen him missing out since Yarde left?

Mikalcius has been promoted out of the Academy early, despite having the year off injured. This suggesta that he is in our plans sooner rather than later.

As an aside, it is odd that several Academy players were moved mid season into the main squad with minimal if any fanfare.

 
Re: Visser
Cookie (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 17:28
Quote:
fandg2
Quote:
HonkyTonk
Quote:
Cookie
Wouldn't want to be going in to next season with Walker, Earle and then a bunch of untested/utility players. He'd have to be replaced as Earler replaced Yarde.

Plus two of those youngsters would be coming back after around a year out injured

Not necessarily disagreeing that he would need replacing, but I would'nt call Chis snr, Alofa or Cheeseman for that matter untested utility players. It would'nt be the end of the world

I would. Visser and Walker are out and out wingers. Finishers. The others can all cover more than one position and don't have the try scoring power of TV or CW.

 
Re: Visser
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 17:42
Yup the best teams need at least 3 quality finishers in the squad.

We've currently got two with one coming in the Summer. If Visser leaves we'll still be one short.

 
Re: Visser
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 18:17
If Walker continues to improve his all round game, and works on his defence, I think he could catch the eye of Eddie Jones. Most aspects of the game can be worked on, but his pace sets him apart.

 
Re: Visser
fandg2 (IP Logged)
24 January, 2018 18:57
Quote:
raedarius

As an aside, it is odd that several Academy players were moved mid season into the main squad with minimal if any fanfare.

Yes it was odd, especially as I know at least one of them had a senior player contract in place at the start of the season ie July 1st and would guess the rest of them would have. Think it was just sloppy admin and any fanfare would have just attenuated the ballsup

 
Re: Visser
Cookie (IP Logged)
25 January, 2018 10:58
Quote:
Quinky Kin
If Walker continues to improve his all round game, and works on his defence, I think he could catch the eye of Eddie Jones. Most aspects of the game can be worked on, but his pace sets him apart.

No chance. If Roko's and Wade's defences aren't good enough, Charlie's doesn't stand a chance.

 
Re: Visser
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
25 January, 2018 12:50
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
If Walker continues to improve his all round game, and works on his defence, I think he could catch the eye of Eddie Jones. Most aspects of the game can be worked on, but his pace sets him apart.

No chance. If Roko's and Wade's defences aren't good enough, Charlie's doesn't stand a chance.

Hence he needs to work on it, a lot. For sheer pace I'd back Walker against either of them. I don't know why Wade and Roko don't get more caps, it's a mystery. But Roko is a few years older than the other two, and whilst Wade has been capped he just doesn't seem in favour.

I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if Walker does get a call up, but we've seen before how a player's game can improve over the course of a season, and if he keeps scoring tries he'll be hard to completely overlook.

 
Re: Visser
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
25 January, 2018 13:52
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
If Walker continues to improve his all round game, and works on his defence, I think he could catch the eye of Eddie Jones. Most aspects of the game can be worked on, but his pace sets him apart.

No chance. If Roko's and Wade's defences aren't good enough, Charlie's doesn't stand a chance.

Exhibit A) - Solomona!!!

 
Re: Visser
Cookie (IP Logged)
25 January, 2018 15:32
Quote:
Quinky Kin
Quote:
Cookie
Quote:
Quinky Kin
If Walker continues to improve his all round game, and works on his defence, I think he could catch the eye of Eddie Jones. Most aspects of the game can be worked on, but his pace sets him apart.

No chance. If Roko's and Wade's defences aren't good enough, Charlie's doesn't stand a chance.

Hence he needs to work on it, a lot. For sheer pace I'd back Walker against either of them. I don't know why Wade and Roko don't get more caps, it's a mystery. But Roko is a few years older than the other two, and whilst Wade has been capped he just doesn't seem in favour.

I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if Walker does get a call up, but we've seen before how a player's game can improve over the course of a season, and if he keeps scoring tries he'll be hard to completely overlook.

Speed and scoring tries is just one part of a winger's job. All the names you mention are deficient in some/most of the other areas. Johnny May has proved he will pick fast, slight players. But they need to have more of an all round game. It wasn't that long ago we were debating whether Walker starts for Quins.

 
Re: Visser
fandg2 (IP Logged)
25 January, 2018 15:42
Quote:
Cookie
Johnny May has proved he will pick fast, slight players. But they need to have more of an all round game. It wasn't that long ago we were debating whether Walker starts for Quins.

Yep agree, May gets the nod because he's the quickest of them all, of that type of winger although deficient in other areas of the game ie scrummaging ;-)

I tend to think Walker is in with a shout if there are a few injuries as he's similar to Daly (without the long range hoof). Speed and footwork although Daly's defence might be a bit better and of course there's that long range kick that Daly adds to the side.

Unfortunately, I doubt if he'd get the chance due to quite a few wingers in front of him though.

 
Re: Visser
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
25 January, 2018 16:02
Quote:
fandg2
Quote:
Cookie
Johnny May has proved he will pick fast, slight players. But they need to have more of an all round game. It wasn't that long ago we were debating whether Walker starts for Quins.

Yep agree, May gets the nod because he's the quickest of them all, of that type of winger although deficient in other areas of the game ie scrummaging ;-)

I tend to think Walker is in with a shout if there are a few injuries as he's similar to Daly (without the long range hoof). Speed and footwork although Daly's defence might be a bit better and of course there's that long range kick that Daly adds to the side.

Unfortunately, I doubt if he'd get the chance due to quite a few wingers in front of him though.
Valid points, both you and Cookie raise. Walker wasn't first choice a while ago; but Smith would have been third or fourth choice at the start of the season.
I'd say Walker is quicker than May, but in any case a lack of pace won't see Walker overlooked. The all-round game is key here; Ollie Smith claimed that Walker was a brilliant fullback and that Quins should play him there. Clearly there is more to his game, but we don't see it.

What we do see is a lightning quick winger who needs to improve in several areas to gain higher honours, and then it depends on how others play as to whether he climbs the pecking order. Time will tell.

 
Re: Visser
Yareet (IP Logged)
25 January, 2018 20:03
Quote:
fandg2
Yep agree, May gets the nod because he's the quickest of them all, of that type of winger although deficient in other areas of the game ie scrummaging ;-)

I tend to think Walker is in with a shout if there are a few injuries as he's similar to Daly (without the long range hoof). Speed and footwork although Daly's defence might be a bit better and of course there's that long range kick that Daly adds to the side.

Unfortunately, I doubt if he'd get the chance due to quite a few wingers in front of him though.

Daly also offers cover across the back line.

 
Re: Visser
fandg2 (IP Logged)
25 January, 2018 21:09
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
fandg2
Yep agree, May gets the nod because he's the quickest of them all, of that type of winger although deficient in other areas of the game ie scrummaging ;-)

I tend to think Walker is in with a shout if there are a few injuries as he's similar to Daly (without the long range hoof). Speed and footwork although Daly's defence might be a bit better and of course there's that long range kick that Daly adds to the side.

Unfortunately, I doubt if he'd get the chance due to quite a few wingers in front of him though.

Daly also offers cover across the back line.

So does Walker, seen him at full back and outside centre but I'll concede that Daly's been doing it longer and at a higher level than the odd times Walker has. All hypothetical really as I think Walkers way down the pecking order

 
Re: Visser
T-Bone (IP Logged)
25 January, 2018 21:49
Think walker is a great player but I'm not sure he's anywhere near an England call up.

 
Re: Visser
Quinky Kin (IP Logged)
25 January, 2018 22:43
I wouldn't be surprised if he was chosen for an England XV / Barbarian type game, one of the non-cap matches

 
Re: Visser
26 January, 2018 15:36
He wouldn't be first choice now if Yarde were still around.

I think Visser is better.

He has great talent going forward but his all round game is nowhere near international standard.

 
Re: Visser
BuckQuin (IP Logged)
26 January, 2018 15:58
Quote:
Quins brixton branch
He wouldn't be first choice now if Yarde were still around.
I think Visser is better...

Charlie and Yarde were rotated pretty regularly/played together before Yarde left.

And I know you expressed an opinion but to assert that "Visser is better" is surely too simplistic. Better under the high ball and in head-on collisions? Sure. Better through a broken field? Nope. Better raw pace? Nope.

Totally different players. Having them on opposite wings gives us a world of options in attack at the moment. Hence why if I had to choose between Visser and Walker leaving, I'd (regrettably) let Viss go - because Earle is a more like-for-like replacement for him.

 
Re: Visser
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
26 January, 2018 16:05
Quote:
BuckQuin
Quote:
Quins brixton branch
He wouldn't be first choice now if Yarde were still around.
I think Visser is better...

Charlie and Yarde were rotated pretty regularly/played together before Yarde left.

And I know you expressed an opinion but to assert that "Visser is better" is surely too simplistic. Better under the high ball and in head-on collisions? Sure. Better through a broken field? Nope. Better raw pace? Nope.

Totally different players. Having them on opposite wings gives us a world of options in attack at the moment. Hence why if I had to choose between Visser and Walker leaving, I'd (regrettably) let Viss go - because Earle is a more like-for-like replacement for him.

Agreed they are both very different types of winger so trying to compare them is tricky (and largely futile).

I think Visser has been a tremendous asset for us, and I'd be very sad to see him go. For me, Earle is a replacement for Yarde, and we should try and keep hold of all three of him, Visser and Walker.

You don't see the top teams worrying about having too many options and we should aspire to that.

 
Re: Visser
TimC_70 (IP Logged)
30 January, 2018 18:23
Hes just signed a 2 year extension to his contract. Really pleased about that


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