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Wigglesworth
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
05 February, 2018 17:54
Oh dear.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
05 February, 2018 18:06
....and he’ll probably start.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
BuckQuin (IP Logged)
05 February, 2018 18:12
I just don't get selections like this. Robson just a better player. I just don't buy arguments that "Wigglesworth would play a better game in terms of tactical kicking/control". If that's even true (I don't feel there's enough of a gulf in terms of control to justify that argument) then let's just take a look at the fact that he'll also regularly miss his man when passing or loop it to him just in time for him to have his ribs rearranged and he'll get wiped out/isolated/turned over whenever he goes on a "dart" - if you can even call it that.

Eddie Jones has generally been spot on, which just makes this even weirder to me.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
05 February, 2018 18:15
Quote:
BuckQuin
I just don't get selections like this. Robson just a better player. I just don't buy arguments that "Wigglesworth would play a better game in terms of tactical kicking/control". If that's even true (I don't feel there's enough of a gulf in terms of control to justify that argument) then let's just take a look at the fact that he'll also regularly miss his man when passing or loop it to him just in time for him to have his ribs rearranged and he'll get wiped out/isolated/turned over whenever he goes on a "dart" - if you can even call it that.
Eddie Jones has generally been spot on, which just makes this even weirder to me.

Ever consider the possibility you're wrong?!

 
Re: Wigglesworth
1908 (IP Logged)
05 February, 2018 18:19
He has the best and quickest pass of all the English 9's.

But I have a dreadful feeling that England could be 7-10 points up, in control, and on trots Wigglesworth for the last 20 mins. We then get loads of box kicking....handing the ball back to Wales...who snatch a dramatic victory.

I think I'd rather he start and Care comes on to inspire us to victory.

I'd rather Robson was on the bench.

Ah well. In Eddie we trust.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
05 February, 2018 18:20
When EJ spoke to us at the Quinssa evening he specifically stated that he thought that Robson was too small. He was also at pains to spell out that he thought that there was a huge difference between a good premiership and international player.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Camquin (IP Logged)
05 February, 2018 19:17
Robson and Care are bigger threats with the ball in hand - Wigglesworth has two tries this season to Robson and Care's eight each. Despite Wigglesworth having more game time.

As to size, Eddie should watch Guinness adverts.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
poorfour (IP Logged)
05 February, 2018 19:30
It's unusual for Eddie to choose an old head over a young one, but it's a measure of how important he sees the Wales game as being.

My guess is that Wiggy will start and Danny will be held back to finish the game.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
05 February, 2018 20:17
Might he be tempted to start with Farrell at 10? They obviously know each other backwards - with Teo at 12 and Joseph at 13; Then bring Care and Ford on with 30 to go and rest one of Teo or Joseph. Bring Slade (injured?) on to bench.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
BuckQuin (IP Logged)
05 February, 2018 21:01
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Quote:
BuckQuin
I just don't get selections like this. Robson just a better player. I just don't buy arguments that "Wigglesworth would play a better game in terms of tactical kicking/control". If that's even true (I don't feel there's enough of a gulf in terms of control to justify that argument) then let's just take a look at the fact that he'll also regularly miss his man when passing or loop it to him just in time for him to have his ribs rearranged and he'll get wiped out/isolated/turned over whenever he goes on a "dart" - if you can even call it that.
Eddie Jones has generally been spot on, which just makes this even weirder to me.

Ever consider the possibility you're wrong?!

This particular strong opinion is based on years of watching rugby week-in week-out, so no, I don't think I'm wrong. You're entitled to think I'm wrong I guess - and I know you do like to suggest that others are wrong. I'm sure you're always right... except for when you're wrong. (Sm100)

 
Re: Wigglesworth
blucherquin (IP Logged)
05 February, 2018 21:18
Youngs out for four months - mcl torn in left knee

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
05 February, 2018 22:08
Quote:
BuckQuin
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Quote:
BuckQuin
I just don't get selections like this. Robson just a better player. I just don't buy arguments that "Wigglesworth would play a better game in terms of tactical kicking/control". If that's even true (I don't feel there's enough of a gulf in terms of control to justify that argument) then let's just take a look at the fact that he'll also regularly miss his man when passing or loop it to him just in time for him to have his ribs rearranged and he'll get wiped out/isolated/turned over whenever he goes on a "dart" - if you can even call it that.
Eddie Jones has generally been spot on, which just makes this even weirder to me.

Ever consider the possibility you're wrong?!

This particular strong opinion is based on years of watching rugby week-in week-out, so no, I don't think I'm wrong. You're entitled to think I'm wrong I guess - and I know you do like to suggest that others are wrong. I'm sure you're always right... except for when you're wrong. (Sm100)

It's not that I think you're wrong, just that I think it's likely EJ is right!

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Eric Browett (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 07:20
BucksQuin - I watch Sarries every week and I don't recognise your description of him. However, unless he starts it's a limited, wasted selection. He's no finisher at international level unless you're closing a game out.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Dave L (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 08:00
Wigglesworth is the player that you’d just trust in that situation and I can see exactly why EJ has picked him. Robson would be more ‘exciting’ but his selection is probably for another day.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
T-Bone (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 08:55
Suppose wiggle has been around the team and squad a lot before, and as recently as the summer, so much better placed to come in a week before a game and slot straight in. If Youngs was injured in January, maybe Robson would have got the nod. Who knows. Suspect he may start as Jones obviously wants the box kicking, which I think is a shame, as I find it very dull. And Danny's kicking has got better anyway (his controlling box kicking, rather than his attacking kicks which have long been excellent)

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 08:49
If Dan Robson is deemed too small who do we think Eddie will have as next cab on the rank....if Danny or Richard injured and subsequently for RWC?

 
Re: Wigglesworth
ninjafez (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 09:05
Quote:
Kent Fan
If Dan Robson is deemed too small who do we think Eddie will have as next cab on the rank....if Danny or Richard injured and subsequently for RWC?

Chudley, spencer, the guy at wocester who isn't a Saffa theres qutie a few others i cant name but i think the issue is that eddie has not used the training camps to blood new options..



Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Mayor West (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 09:57
But Simmonds, who was excellent, is five stone lighter than Billy but not too small.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
never sleep (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 10:06
I would love to see Dan Robson playing. His pace could be a game changer. He would probably fall into that "finisher" role.
I do think that Wigglesworth is a safe option though. Experienced, etc.
But, I would consider moving Faz to #10 in this case - which is a shame as I think that the Ford-Faz combo was working well.
Question for the Sarries guys - Do you think that Faz is better at #10 or #12 when Wigglesworth is playing?

 
Re: Wigglesworth
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 10:08
Quote:
ninjafez
Quote:
Kent Fan
If Dan Robson is deemed too small who do we think Eddie will have as next cab on the rank....if Danny or Richard injured and subsequently for RWC?

Chudley, spencer, the guy at wocester who isn't a Saffa theres qutie a few others i cant name but i think the issue is that eddie has not used the training camps to blood new options..

Maunder went to Argentina, Heinze has been in the Training squad. I think Vellacott could be an outside bet. Jones has mentioned him before

 
Re: Wigglesworth
fandg2 (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 10:49
Can't help but think Stu Townsend at Exeter will pop up sometime. 1st saw him when he was 14/15 yo and stood out (by miles) then. Has come up the England age grade route with the likes of Underhill, Mallinder and Boyce

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Cookie (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 11:06
Find it very amusing that some are so dismissive of the guy who played 79 mins for the winning side in the Champions Cup Final last year and has played almost 200 games for the most successful team of recent years.

I'm going to trust the Sarries coaches and EJ a little more than some on here.

(BTW, Simpson is arguably #1 at Wasps having started 20 of their 36 games this season).

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Fursty (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 11:08
Quote:
Mayor West
But Simmonds, who was excellent, is five stone lighter than Billy but not too small.

Despite an excellent game at the weekend I think he's too small to be a long term starting 8 in international rugby.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Poking With Sticks (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 13:08
Quote:
fandg2
Can't help but think Stu Townsend at Exeter will pop up sometime. 1st saw him when he was 14/15 yo and stood out (by miles) then. Has come up the England age grade route with the likes of Underhill, Mallinder and Boyce

Agreed. I was quite surprised Maunder got the nod over him for Argentina (although they're both good). Not sure why he's been relegated to the AW Cup and Braves games but can't question Baxter's nouse to date. It's a shame for Townsend as this might've been his big break.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
1876-Fez (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 14:48
Quote:
never sleep
I would love to see Dan Robson playing. His pace could be a game changer. He would probably fall into that "finisher" role.
I do think that Wigglesworth is a safe option though. Experienced, etc.
But, I would consider moving Faz to #10 in this case - which is a shame as I think that the Ford-Faz combo was working well.
Question for the Sarries guys - Do you think that Faz is better at #10 or #12 when Wigglesworth is playing?

Good question...but difficult to answer as I have only seen him play 12 with Wiggy at 9 for a very limited time (injury when Faz moved to 12 and Loz to 10). All I can say that as at 9/10 partnership they work very well for us...

I can see EJ logic in bringing Wiggy in...experience...pretty safe option to start with...then DC on to run riot!
But not a long term solution heading towards a RWC .... EJ should have/be bringing on a younger 9 for these situations.



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Re: Wigglesworth
kevin (IP Logged)
06 February, 2018 20:54
Quote:
BuckQuin
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Quote:
BuckQuin
I just don't get selections like this. Robson just a better player. I just don't buy arguments that "Wigglesworth would play a better game in terms of tactical kicking/control". If that's even true (I don't feel there's enough of a gulf in terms of control to justify that argument) then let's just take a look at the fact that he'll also regularly miss his man when passing or loop it to him just in time for him to have his ribs rearranged and he'll get wiped out/isolated/turned over whenever he goes on a "dart" - if you can even call it that.
Eddie Jones has generally been spot on, which just makes this even weirder to me.

Ever consider the possibility you're wrong?!

This particular strong opinion is based on years of watching rugby week-in week-out, so no, I don't think I'm wrong. You're entitled to think I'm wrong I guess - and I know you do like to suggest that others are wrong. I'm sure you're always right... except for when you're wrong. (Sm100)
QP likes to try to be cryptic without actually offering a viable alternative.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
FGGQuin (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 10:20
Probably a sign of getting old and grumpy but I am a little bored with the "starter" and "finisher" narrative especially re Danny Care. Just because there is someone on the bench, they don't automatically need to come on to the pitch. Danny is, for me, a far better player than Wigglesworth and he has been in the squad for several years. Start with Danny and finish with Danny unless he is injured. I seem to remember him playing 80 minutes (brilliantly) for Quins a few times this season!

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 10:37
Agreed



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
thomh (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 10:49
Worth remembering that two years ago in this fixture Jones unloaded the bench and it nearly cost us the game as we lost structure. It may be that he is wary of that and, given than there is a drop off after Youngs and Care in any event, would rather go for the safe structured player to avoid a repeat.

The issue with that is that for much of Jones' tenure we have worn opposition down and dominated the last 20 minutes, whereas Wigglesworth on the bench is more likely to be a steadying influence than to ramp up the tempo.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 19:35
Quote:
kevin
Quote:
BuckQuin
Quote:
Quinten Poulsen
Quote:
BuckQuin
I just don't get selections like this. Robson just a better player. I just don't buy arguments that "Wigglesworth would play a better game in terms of tactical kicking/control". If that's even true (I don't feel there's enough of a gulf in terms of control to justify that argument) then let's just take a look at the fact that he'll also regularly miss his man when passing or loop it to him just in time for him to have his ribs rearranged and he'll get wiped out/isolated/turned over whenever he goes on a "dart" - if you can even call it that.
Eddie Jones has generally been spot on, which just makes this even weirder to me.

Ever consider the possibility you're wrong?!

This particular strong opinion is based on years of watching rugby week-in week-out, so no, I don't think I'm wrong. You're entitled to think I'm wrong I guess - and I know you do like to suggest that others are wrong. I'm sure you're always right... except for when you're wrong. (Sm100)
QP likes to try to be cryptic without actually offering a viable alternative.

Cheers Kev. thumbs down

 
Re: Wigglesworth
quinsfan123 (IP Logged)
07 February, 2018 20:01
People who are saying that Wigglesworth has been righteously picked over Robson because he is a few KGs larger are being incredibly narrow sighted. A scrum half is to provide quick service, tempo, a sniping threat from the back of a ruck/scrum, and to by and large control the game. If we are selecting on this flawed logic of bigger is better then we would be picking another forward at 9.Which would subsequently have disastrous consequences for the rest of our backline.

(editted to use "scrum half" - if you leave out the "r" in "scrum", it sets off the profanity checker) smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2018 21:20 by DOK.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 00:46
Quote:
quinsfan123
People who are saying that Wigglesworth has been righteously picked over Robson because he is a few KGs larger are being incredibly narrow sighted. A scrum half is to provide quick service, tempo, a sniping threat from the back of a ruck/scrum, and to by and large control the game. If we are selecting on this flawed logic of bigger is better then we would be picking another forward at 9.

I don’t think he’s been picked because of any moral concerns, but possibly because he can control a game, as he has for Sarries for a number of years...

 
Re: Wigglesworth
backdoc (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 09:47
"(BTW, Simpson is arguably #1 at Wasps having started 20 of their 36 games this season)."

No wonder we have so many injuries - 36 games already this season?

Robson starts the important games.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
quin_jon (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 10:11
Care is starting, Wigglesworth on the bench. Only other change is Joseph in for Te'o

 
Re: Wigglesworth
PQ2 (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 13:32
Quote:
quinsfan123
..If we are selecting on this flawed logic of bigger is better then we would be picking another forward at 9.Which would subsequently have disastrous consequences for the rest of our backline.


Ooh, I dunno - everyone thought Dewi Morris -a big lad- was like having an extra forward; seemed to work OK. Joost van der Westhuisen was a six-footer, too.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
never sleep (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 14:01
Mike Phillips is 6 foot 3

 
Re: Wigglesworth
bg (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 17:14
Quote:
quinsfan123
People who are saying that Wigglesworth has been righteously picked over Robson because he is a few KGs larger are being incredibly narrow sighted. A scrum half is to provide quick service, tempo, a sniping threat from the back of a ruck/scrum, and to by and large control the game. If we are selecting on this flawed logic of bigger is better then we would be picking another forward at 9.Which would subsequently have disastrous consequences for the rest of our backline.
(editted to use "scrum half" - if you leave out the "r" in "scrum", it sets off the profanity checker) smiling smiley

mauro bergamasco comes to mind who was picked at 9.. I can't remember who the coach was.. South African.. thought it would be a good idea?

 
Re: Wigglesworth
Man from LA (IP Logged)
08 February, 2018 22:52
Quote:
Cookie
Find it very amusing that some are so dismissive of the guy who played 79 mins for the winning side in the Champions Cup Final last year and has played almost 200 games for the most successful team of recent years.
I'm going to trust the Sarries coaches and EJ a little more than some on here.

(BTW, Simpson is arguably #1 at Wasps having started 20 of their 36 games this season).

You think they won by talent alone? Nothing else?

And going by your logic, Brad Barrett and Alex Goode should still be in the England squad as they were in the same team.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2018 22:59 by Man from LA.

 
Re: Wigglesworth
ninjafez (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 00:06
Quote:
bg
Quote:
quinsfan123
People who are saying that Wigglesworth has been righteously picked over Robson because he is a few KGs larger are being incredibly narrow sighted. A scrum half is to provide quick service, tempo, a sniping threat from the back of a ruck/scrum, and to by and large control the game. If we are selecting on this flawed logic of bigger is better then we would be picking another forward at 9.Which would subsequently have disastrous consequences for the rest of our backline.
(editted to use "scrum half" - if you leave out the "r" in "scrum", it sets off the profanity checker) smiling smiley

mauro bergamasco comes to mind who was picked at 9.. I can't remember who the coach was.. South African.. thought it would be a good idea?

Nick mallett



Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!


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