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Lewis out
blucherquin (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 15:18
Must never play for us again

Helped by an appalling pack he made every effort to lose us that game

 
Re: Lewis out
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 15:20
Appalling today but not sure any one player deserves to be singled out.

From 1-23 they were all an embarrassment today.

 
Re: Lewis out
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 15:20
Dont like to pick on individual players but he seems to move in slooooooow montion.

 
Re: Lewis out
blucherquin (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 15:23
I agree normally on the one payer thing but to be the cause of so much poor play at this level in such a vital game - im staggered



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2018 15:42 by blucherquin.

 
Re: Lewis out
T-Bone (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 15:24
Quote:
blucherquin
Must never play for us again
Helped by an appalling pack he made every effort to lose us that game

Can agree with you on that one smiling smiley

 
Re: Lewis out
WellingQuin (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 15:26
I agree with others in that it's not usually nice to single someone out so much, but honestly that was such a bad performance I can't help but say something.

 
Re: Lewis out
The Baptist (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 15:36
He was so, so bad in every department.
Even more frustrating is that we had two better scrumhalves on the bench. One who played for the U20 all blacks and one who played for the Western Force. Baffling.

 
Re: Lewis out
blucherquin (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 15:37
Quote:
T-Bone
Quote:
blucherquin
Must never play for us again
Helped by an appalling pack he made every effort to lose us that game

Can agree with you on that one smiling smiley

I knew weíd find common ground smiling smiley

 
Re: Lewis out
frontrowfrankie (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 15:40
Utter garbage. Would add that Aaron Morris is not premiership quality either. Exeter and Saracens both saw fit to ship them out why do we not seem to see why before signing. Give me my Sunday back, waste of time.

 
Re: Lewis out
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 15:42
Sarries tried to get Morris back in the summer

 
Re: Lewis out
frontrowfrankie (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 15:44
Donít care heís been useless for us

 
Re: Lewis out
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 15:49
But after shipping him out, wanted him back

 
Re: Lewis out
Bellyfull (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 16:53
Too make up numbers on the minimum wage I expect

 
Re: Lewis out
The Dead Baron (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 17:16
Sorry, but I disagree about Morris. He's better than you make out. No one really covered themselves in glory today (although I stop short at saying all 23 were an embarrassment - Visser played well, Smith was getting hosed because he wasn't being protected, Luamanu chucked everything at the Pests, and I thought Sinks had a decentish run of things) but to infer that Morris shouldn;t be playing for us is a tad short-sighted.

Lewis, on the other hand....

 
Re: Lewis out
QuinAlan (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 18:12
I just couldnt believe what I was seeing when Lewis butchered that try, firstly when he didnt have any pace whatsoever to run it in on his own, then when it was obvious that he couldnt, all he had to do was pass the blinking ball sideways to Tim Visser. That was unbelievable & I still cant get over it.

 
Re: Lewis out
Bucksquin (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 18:18
At least Lewis was not one of JK's signings ó JK would never sign a scrum half with no pace and the slowest pass in the Premiership (after first taking a hop, step and jump).

Wait ó hang on ...!

 
Re: Lewis out
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 18:22
A word too for Charlie Matthews who missed 5 tackles and gave away 3 pens. Nice work Eeyore.

 
Re: Lewis out
TitusQuin (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 18:48
Quote:
frontrowfrankie
Utter garbage. Would add that Aaron Morris is not premiership quality either. Exeter and Saracens both saw fit to ship them out why do we not seem to see why before signing. Give me my Sunday back, waste of time.

That is a very shallow way to go about it. Woodburn was no good at Bath until he got into the Exeter environment alongside many other players.

Saracens also tried to get him back last season so someone must see something

 
Re: Lewis out
Meadway Meanderer (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 18:52
Maybe Lewis will get better but at present I can't see why he's starting for us. There was one moment just before he got subbed that Smith completely lost it with him and just had a go. Basically it was that strange grubber kick which went straight to a Wasps hand and got run back for them to score.

And as for Charlie Mathews, the least explosive lock in the Premiership in my view...

 
Re: Lewis out
DOK (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 18:54
Quote:
blucherquin
Must never play for us again
Helped by an appalling pack he made every effort to lose us that game

I appreciate the frustration, but that last sentence? Not in any way fair on a professional player who I'm sure was doing his best, whatever the result may have been.

 
Re: Lewis out
blucherquin (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 18:57
Quote:
DOK
Quote:
blucherquin
Must never play for us again
Helped by an appalling pack he made every effort to lose us that game

I appreciate the frustration, but that last sentence? Not in any way fair on a professional player who I'm sure was doing his best, whatever the result may have been.

DOK you know I donít literally mean he tries to lose.

Everything he did was abysmal - every decision, every lack of action, slow, poor passing, poor vision, poor distribution, slow, slow, slow, butchered first try. Awful.

The ironic cheer when he got substituted said it all.

 
Re: Lewis out
Squid (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 19:00
Attacking individual players for their performance is pretty low.

Quins problems run deeper than the quality or performance of one player.

Apart from 2012, 2013 and 2014, Quins have been mid-table for over a decade, and indeed worse before that.

There appear to be structural and cultural issues that need sorting if Quins are to get anywhere near their ambition to be a top European Club on the pitch.

Dave Lewis is not the problem. Nor Charlie Matthews. Nor any one individual player.

The Board need to step up and earn their crust or step aside and make way for others who will.

 
Re: Lewis out
Squid (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 19:45
Or another view......Lewis was the only player who managed to run 50 yards to get close enough for Smith to pass to, and had others done the same, he would have been able to off-load to a quicker man.

The only one within 20 yards was Visser who was too far away and with his experience and pace should've got closer.

As for the back row, the centres and Alofa, were no where to be seen.

As I say, attacking individual guys on here is cheap.

It also misses the main point about the structures and culture in the club. It's like blaming the 2nd violin player on the Titanic.

By all means carry on with cheap shots, it's a free board after all, but that's my opinion.

 
Re: Lewis out
QuinAlan (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 19:57
This shows just what a super player Karl Dickson was for us. Proving a very difficult player to replace. Lewis is nowhere near. If you were marking out of ten, what would he get for todays performance? Three maybe? He was awful, what else are we expected to say?

 
Re: Lewis out
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 19:58
3 would be over-generous.

 
Re: Lewis out
blucherquin (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 21:15
Quote:
Squid
Or another view......Lewis was the only player who managed to run 50 yards to get close enough for Smith to pass to, and had others done the same, he would have been able to off-load to a quicker man.
The only one within 20 yards was Visser who was too far away and with his experience and pace should've got closer.

As for the back row, the centres and Alofa, were no where to be seen.

As I say, attacking individual guys on here is cheap.

It also misses the main point about the structures and culture in the club. It's like blaming the 2nd violin player on the Titanic.

By all means carry on with cheap shots, it's a free board after all, but that's my opinion.

Keep saying cheap if it makes you feel better.

Heís terrible - he needs to be swapped out for Kitto.

 
Re: Lewis out
Smiddy (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 21:50
Alanquin absolutely nailed it re Lewis. Also why was it that whenever we restarted with a kick which we wanted to compete at the only person going after it was the slowest person on the pitch ie Matthews? It was only for the last one when they actually made Visser try and chase it. I mean itís probably not Matthewsís decision but itís just so brainless. Actually having seen Lewisís turn of foot for the butchered try perhaps Iím being harsh on Charlie...

 
Re: Lewis out
Samquin (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 22:45
Lewis was poor in the last 2 games. I cannot why Kitto was not the starter for both games. Lewis has yet to impress. He is far to slow and his kicks out of hand are poor.

 
Re: Lewis out
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 23:06
Quote:
RodneyRegis
A word too for Charlie Matthews who missed 5 tackles and gave away 3 pens. Nice work Eeyore.



Just my two cents as someone from the outside who will try to be objective.

Matthews scored a try and carried more than anyone on either team today. He is not great but he was not the reason you lost today and I thought he had a reasonable game.

I find it odd that people are attacking a second/third choice scrum half in Lewis and some people are attacking Aaron Morris, the game was even in the first half and in the second half, your forwards were completely outplayed by the wasps forwards especially young Jack Willis who kept turning the ball over at the breakdown.

If anyone is to be attacked today, it is your DOR and your head coach who could not come up with a game plan at half time for the players to execute to win the game against 14 men, your defense coach who continually coaches a defense that's poor, was poor last year, is still poor this year and gave up over 40 points playing against 14 men.

I agree with Squid who said attacking individual players is pretty low, you lost by 22 points, you don't lose a game to a 14 man team by 22 points because of any individual player. I also agree with Squid that apart 2012,2013,2014, Quins has pretty much been a mid table team and no where near the European power house some people think you are/should be, I know the fans are right to expect more but every other team in the league will have the same expectation.

I don't think your coaching staff is any good and the issues at Quins are much bigger than a third choice scrum half. Your issues are bigger than him. When you had Danny Care who is the England first choice scrum half, you were still 8th in the table so it's not like you were flying high when you had your first team. I just think some perspective needs to be had as I don't think Lewis deserves the condemnation he is getting today.

 
Re: Lewis out
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 23:28
BS12 - I agree about Matthews in your dissection of our game today, but even if our aforementioned poor coaching staff had managed to put something together today, such was the standard of our players application, I doubt it would have been noticeable, so poorly did they play. Even stuff that shouldnít need coaching - just basic play whatís in front of you rugby. Very poor all round, players and coaches, particularly players today.

Ultimately it is the coaches job to get the team playing, but if you play like they did today, Iíd be surprised if anyone could get the team today to play!

 
Re: Lewis out
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 23:45
I agree Bolly-Quin that the players were not good today. When you play against a 14 man team and lose by 22, you did not play well as a team but like you rightly said, it is the coaches job to get the team playing.

I have not seen any improvement in the last year and a half from any player in your team since this coaching staff came on. A good coaching team is able to improve players by 5 percent at least but I can't think of any player in your team that it has happened to.

I also think it was a terrible idea to make Nick Easter your defense coach, that is one of the biggest coaching roles in a team and a good defensive coach is worth a lot, why would you employ someone whose only coaching credential was coaching Wimbledon, not very smart. I like what Northampton has done with bringing in Boyd for next season and I think you need an outside influence to come in and freshen the club.

Everyone on your coaching staff apart from Rowntree has been there for ages, Kingston, Mapletoft, Easter, Evans, they have been at the club for ages and I just think you have plateaued. You need to get someone from the outside, who will bring new ideas to the club because at the moment, while you have some good odd win like beating us every year at the stoop it seems, you are a mediocre club and that will not change with the current coaching staff, you appointed Nick Easter and that was a disaster last year as defense coach and what did you do this year, appoint another recently retired player who had no coaching credential as attack coach. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and to me Quins fit this description

 
Re: Lewis out
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 23:45
I said when we signed Lewis that it was an appalling decision. He's never been Premiership quality and I was absolutely aghast that he joined us. He's terrible, all of our other options are better. Today he was dreadful - slow as molasses in thought and deed, awful decision making, lots of errors, and primarily responsible for some serious butchery.

Of course, Matthews was poor, and Dave Ward again showed why a) he's not up to it, and b) he should never be captain, by managing to give away 6 penalties and miss 4 tackles. Other individuals made individual mistakes.


But having a dreadful scrum half just holes a team below the waterline. Quins will not improve if we don't improve our signings and if we don't cut the dead wood, and Lewis should never have joined the club.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Lewis out
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 23:50
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
I also think it was a terrible idea to make Nick Easter your defense coach, that is one of the biggest coaching roles in a team and a good defensive coach is worth a lot, why would you employ someone whose only coaching credential was coaching Wimbledon, not very smart.

He was cheap and Quins looked at Saracens - what were Andy Farrell's coaching credentials, or Paul Gustard's, or Alex Sanderson's?

Certainly don't think Easter's very good at it, mind.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Lewis out
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 00:13
Gustard's first role at Sarries was as a skills coach working with Eddie Jones in 2008, he did not start as a defense coach for Sarries.

Sanderson was appointed as coach by Eddie Jones and he took him to coach in super rugby before he came to Sarries with Eddie Jones, he already had a year coaching with Eddie before becoming Sarries forwards coach.

Andy Farrell was also first appointed as a skills coach and he coached the England saxons team with Stuart Lancaster and it was only after he impressed and was seen as a good coach that he was made first team coach and we won the league in his first year as first team coach and as he has proven for the lions, England and Ireland, he is an excellent coach and I think a future England head coach.

The point is, none of those men you mentioned who all became exceptional coaches started off with a position such as defense coach as their very first coaching role for the team they played for. I would not mind if Easter was made a skills coach or a line out coach or something like that. He has also not been a very good defense coach, he might end up being one, I just don't think he should have had that high a job straight away or if he did, it should have been with an experienced DOR like a Dean Richards, not Kingston who is inexperienced as a DOR.

 
Re: Lewis out
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 00:40
Oh, fair enough then, if you're making the point that defence coach specifically can't be the first job you take as it's harder than most of the others, which I wouldn't disagree with.

Mind you, it would appear Sanderson's time in Oz was something of a disaster...!



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: Lewis out
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 01:21
I think Matthews was one of the better of our side, despite those stats - he at least got close enough to the ďactionĒ to miss tackles and incur penalties...

Have no access to smilies, so this is tongue in cheek!

 
Re: Lewis out
Bucksquin (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 08:12
I'm not sure that this idea we shouldn't criticise (by name) individual players has any merit. After all, they are professional performers, and the quality of their performances is the stuff by which successful and unsuccessful teams (and hence businesses) are determined.

Moreover, if you read the 6 Nations articles in the Sunday papers, they analyse each individual player's performance and rate it/comment on it.

The only thing that we ought NOT to be doing is making nasty personal remarks, like calling a player names, or saying they're not trying. They may perform so poorly that it looks like they're not trying but rarely will that actually be the case, and there are far better and nicer ways of saying it even if you may be tempted to think it.

 
Re: Lewis out
blucherquin (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 09:41
Yeah actually the more I think about it, Iím not going to take being told that the internet has decided the moral standards for sports supporting.

Yes I could have worded the initial post more elegantly - but it wasnít offensive, and it was pretty clear I didnít mean he deliberately didnít make an effort. But if people were offended then I apologise. If I wasnít so furious Iíd have written ďLewis should never start for Quins again, heís not good enough to play in the Premiership, his terrible choices and slow play were at the root cause of a lot of our failures in the first halfĒ. Not sure itís that different.

But the idea you canít criticise a single player is just silly.

Professional actors, musicians, sports players are the subject of criticism of their performance - itís part of what they do. Clearly they can choose, as many do, never to read or listen to any of it.

Iím sure heís personally charming (he may not be of course but thatís not the point) and tries very hard - but in my limited view heís a very poor scrum half for the premiership or heís just having a consistently very bad run of form.

If we start him again, we will get beaten again. Our game (such as it is) relies on quick ball and even when our very poorly performing pack managed to get it - he killed it.

He is like Care in one respect - he lost the ball during a great attacking series by flapping his arms and failing to notice the opposition pick it up from between his feet.

Itís a shame thatís the thing he learned from DC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2018 09:45 by blucherquin.

 
Re: Lewis out
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 10:30
I don't think it was offensive blucherquin. I just think Lewis or Matthews or some of the players that have received a fair bit of flak, some of it deserved.

I just think it is papering over the cracks at the club. Lewis is not the problem at Quins, now is he a great scrum half, nope, but he is not the problem.

I said earlier on this thread, when you had Danny Care this season playing for you, you were still 8th position so clearly it is not like you are flying high with Care and poor with Lewis.You say if you start him again, you will get beaten but even when you start Care, you lose more than you win, even Aaron smith will not make this current quins team a top 4 or top 6 team.

Your problems imo are on the coaching side, you sort that out and you will start to see improvements in the playing squad.

 
Re: Lewis out
Dave L (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 10:37
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
I don't think it was offensive blucherquin. I just think Lewis or Matthews or some of the players that have received a fair bit of flak, some of it deserved.
I just think it is papering over the cracks at the club. Lewis is not the problem at Quins, now is he a great scrum half, nope, but he is not the problem.

I said earlier on this thread, when you had Danny Care this season playing for you, you were still 8th position so clearly it is not like you are flying high with Care and poor with Lewis.You say if you start him again, you will get beaten but even when you start Care, you lose more than you win, even Aaron smith will not make this current quins team a top 4 or top 6 team.

Your problems imo are on the coaching side, you sort that out and you will start to see improvements in the playing squad.

There's definitely an issue on the coaching side and has been for a fair while. Some of the players basics are very poor.

I'm not the biggest fan of Charlie Matthews by any stretch but I couldn't have too many criticisms of him yesterday.

 
Re: Lewis out
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 10:41
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
I don't think it was offensive blucherquin. I just think Lewis or Matthews or some of the players that have received a fair bit of flak, some of it deserved.
I just think it is papering over the cracks at the club. Lewis is not the problem at Quins, now is he a great scrum half, nope, but he is not the problem.

I said earlier on this thread, when you had Danny Care this season playing for you, you were still 8th position so clearly it is not like you are flying high with Care and poor with Lewis.You say if you start him again, you will get beaten but even when you start Care, you lose more than you win, even Aaron smith will not make this current quins team a top 4 or top 6 team.

Your problems imo are on the coaching side, you sort that out and you will start to see improvements in the playing squad.

Fair enough to be honest.

Lewis was awful but we've lost plenty of games we should have done better in this season with Lewis not starting.

Highlighting one player who was admittedly terrible shouldn't detract from the fact that there are much bigger problems at the club.

 
Re: Lewis out
T-Bone (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 11:23
I just think the most frustrating them with Lewis is that we had a better 9 available.

Matthews' stats are admittedfly poor, but I thouht he did his fairshare carrying.

Not sure I noted Alofa was playing at all and Wallace was pretty ineffective too, mainly as he seemed to be being used to carry into traffic, which is not his strength

 
Re: Lewis out
blucherquin (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 11:25
Quote:
T-Bone
I just think the most frustrating them with Lewis is that we had a better 9 available.
Matthews' stats are admittedfly poor, but I thouht he did his fairshare carrying.

Not sure I noted Alofa was playing at all and Wallace was pretty ineffective too, mainly as he seemed to be being used to carry into traffic, which is not his strength

Yeah I have to say at no point am I suggesting that there's nothing else wrong at Quins.

But starting Lewis and keeping him on when Kitto has been so much better this season was just maddening.

It's not the end to all our problems -- but on the basis of fixing one broken window at a time (or whatever analogy you want) -- it would be a start.

 
Re: Lewis out
Bucksquin (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 14:36
Surely the point regarding Lewis is, when you have a far, far better (in-form) player available for selection in Kitto, why play one who is patently not as good? And why keep doing so, week after week?

I can only assume that because Lewis was a JK signing, and Kitto just short-term emergency cover, it would reflect badly on JK to admit (by selecting Kitto ahead of Lewis) that he'd made a mistake.

 
Re: Lewis out
TitusQuin (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 19:40
Quote:
Barnetsarrie12
Gustard's first role at Sarries was as a skills coach working with Eddie Jones in 2008, he did not start as a defense coach for Sarries.
Sanderson was appointed as coach by Eddie Jones and he took him to coach in super rugby before he came to Sarries with Eddie Jones, he already had a year coaching with Eddie before becoming Sarries forwards coach.

Andy Farrell was also first appointed as a skills coach and he coached the England saxons team with Stuart Lancaster and it was only after he impressed and was seen as a good coach that he was made first team coach and we won the league in his first year as first team coach and as he has proven for the lions, England and Ireland, he is an excellent coach and I think a future England head coach.

The point is, none of those men you mentioned who all became exceptional coaches started off with a position such as defense coach as their very first coaching role for the team they played for. I would not mind if Easter was made a skills coach or a line out coach or something like that. He has also not been a very good defense coach, he might end up being one, I just don't think he should have had that high a job straight away or if he did, it should have been with an experienced DOR like a Dean Richards, not Kingston who is inexperienced as a DOR.

The last point you make is I suspect the most striking.

Gustard(for a season skills coach),Sanderson and Farrell all got senior coaching positions after retiring.
Sanderson with a Super rugby side(bigger than a poem side arguably) and it was a disaster
Farrell was attack/backs coach at Saracens(Gustard was defence) and lets be honest Sarries attack back play back then was non existent so you can't qualify that as a success. He quickly was successful as defence coach but coming form a club that had a massive focus on it.
The point about DORs is that Brendan Venter from what i understand said way back then was the club was going to be very defence/kick chase/effort focused on winning and that allowed Sarries to develop.

I remember reading somewhere Ferris said about Ulster who had a terrible set piece about 6 years ago but changed their head coach who changed the mindset on it and with no change in playing personnel or forwards coach. He said they had then became one of the most dominant scrums and mauls in the Pro 12.

I am sure all of you in whatever jobs you have perform better with support and backing from the top?

I am not saying JK hasn't given his all for Easter and defence but must assume if it was the case it can't be as bad as it has been.

 
Re: Lewis out
QuinAlan (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 20:32
Anyone know when Mulchrone will be back? I quite liked the look of him when he played last season. That was a while ago, but he seemed far more lively & snappy.

 
Re: Lewis out
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
17 February, 2018 17:07
Don't want to depress any one further, but did I hear the commentator say that Kitto is off back home this week?!

 
Re: Lewis out
HonkyTonk (IP Logged)
17 February, 2018 17:08
end of the month

 
Re: Lewis out
godzilla73 (IP Logged)
17 February, 2018 17:30
Quote:
QuinAlan
Anyone know when Mulchrone will be back? I quite liked the look of him when he played last season. That was a while ago, but he seemed far more lively & snappy.

Spoke to Charlie last weekend and he said not until April. sad smiley

 
Re: Lewis out
quinsfan123 (IP Logged)
17 February, 2018 17:34
It was so blatant today how slow Lewis is to get the ball out of rucks etc
But, that does not mean he can be blamed for our failings. That is someone else...


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