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It's Not the Despair, Laura.
DOK (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 18:41
Great quote from John Cleese.

I've been thinking about this for a while. Were we a team like London Irish (and I'm not having a pop at them) but we played like a team 11th/12th in the table then being thumped by the likes of Wasps would not hurt so much. If we knew from the gitgo that Sunday would be a massacre, yes I'd still have turned out. I'd still support the team. That's what a supporter does. If you support Stoke but they're playing Man City, you know the probable outcome, but you turn up (and stay till the end).

The glory and the pain of Harlequins is that's exactly what you don't know. One minute they're stuffing Saracens, the next minute they're losing to London Irish! They can beat Wasps when it matters for Europe, but not 14 men in the Premiership. They can have a game where the defence is better that the Great Wall of China, next game it's made of sponge and tissue paper!

It's the fact I know how well they can play that makes this so aggravating! If they were just a bunch of no hope dullards propping up positions 10-8 in the table, then we'd know where we were. But they're not! This team could easily be top four material, if it always played to the best of its ability. But it doesn't. One week we're in Heaven, the next we're in Hell. And there's no discernible rhyme or reason that anyone can make out as to why.

The reason why eludes the coaches and players (and the fans, I believe). To watch a performance like last Sunday's is made ten times worse when you know that is not how Harlequins play! When you know how much better they can be, watching an example of keystone kops rugby is just so much worse. And yet we did good things! We butchered a number of chances, the stats generally were on our side (except for penalties), so why couldn't we put away 14 men? I don't know but it's damned irritating!

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Nev's Left Boot (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 18:59
In total agreement - part of watching Quins for over 25 years, outside of 2011,12,13 - we've always been like this.

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 19:14
These are different players and different coaches. This stuff about quins culture is nonsense.

We know why, it's the coaches. That's what we've been telling you for 4 seasons now. COS went well past his sell by date, and his replacement is not up to it.

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
blucherquin (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 20:00
Quote:
RodneyRegis
These are different players and different coaches. This stuff about quins culture is nonsense.
We know why, it's the coaches. That's what we've been telling you for 4 seasons now. COS went well past his sell by date, and his replacement is not up to it.

Well according to Easterís post match - itís the players

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
DOK (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 20:21
WHat stuff about Quins culture?

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 21:03
Quote:
blucherquin
Quote:
RodneyRegis
These are different players and different coaches. This stuff about quins culture is nonsense.
We know why, it's the coaches. That's what we've been telling you for 4 seasons now. COS went well past his sell by date, and his replacement is not up to it.

Well according to Easterís post match - itís the players

Coaches and players.

Remember the letter to all fans after that bad loss at home to Newcastle? An apology by the skipper? Well...

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 21:15
Quote:
DOK
WHat stuff about Quins culture?

We've done this for the last 25 years.

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Rocker (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 21:25
We're horribly inconsistent. The same players can be great one week and atrocious the next.

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Meadway Meanderer (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 22:13
I always feel were dependent on one or two players more than most teams. If Robshaw and Horwill aren't on the team sheet I'm worried our forwards aren't going to front up. Nearly at the same level are Care and Brown in the backs.

Also I sometimes feel we don't have a clear game plan but rather are reliant on some great individual play to score tries and win matches.

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Teddington Taff (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 22:15
The frustrations as expressed I think we all share but....Come on!!!!
They are trying to break the mould but it takes time.
I know we'll all stay with it but it is sooooooo frustrating.
COYQ

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
kevin (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 22:21
Quote:
Teddington Taff
The frustrations as expressed I think we all share but....Come on!!!! They are trying to break the mould but it takes time.
I know we'll all stay with it but it is sooooooo frustrating.
COYQ

No. Poor assessment on all levels.

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Bedfordshire Boy (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 22:41
Quote:
Nev's Left Boot
In total agreement - part of watching Quins for over 25 years, outside of 2011,12,13 - we've always been like this.

Sadly so so true.

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Mr_B (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 22:51
For me we were clueless at the weekend, not a single mature head amongst the players, when you are a man up you typically stretch the defence to open up the gap, we stuffed the ball up our forwards jumpers and persisted the entire game to try to push over the line with an overlap standing out wide waiting for a ball that never came. We took ages to get the ball out of any situation, the ref was standing multiple times flapping his hands shouting balls out and we just stood open mouthed while wasps stepped over and picked up the ball on offer. We kicked the ball away with less than 20 minutes on the clock and 3 converted tries needed and our defence was AWOL completely. There is no one individual here to blame it's a mixture of coaching and some really poor decision making on the pitch.

We miss our senior players experience to stop the stupid happening, the players are capable as we have seen them perform against strong opposition but their decision making (or lack of it) if not kept in check can be appalling as on Sunday.

Is our defence strategy so complex they can't remember what to do, can we not go through the bloody basics with the players when under certain conditions so it is drilled into them?

That was an infuriating game to watch and probably the worst I have seen us play in 25 years considering we shipped 6 tries against 14 men for best part of the game, we were poor in the relegation year but even that team would have done better against 14 men.

the team has the ability to be so much better, I have never been so frustrated with them as on Sunday.

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
T-Bone (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 23:58
Quote:
blucherquin
Quote:
RodneyRegis
These are different players and different coaches. This stuff about quins culture is nonsense.
We know why, it's the coaches. That's what we've been telling you for 4 seasons now. COS went well past his sell by date, and his replacement is not up to it.

Well according to EasterÔŅĹs post match - itÔŅĹs the players

What did he say? Missed that

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 00:06
Rather than quote all Mr Bís text, I agree and more frustrating still is the inability to learn, week on week. Weíve been here too often and itís just not getting any better, worse even.

So saddening to see players that should have a great opportunity waste it while the coaches stand by wibbling and wobbling and getting the pasting they deserve...

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
blucherquin (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 06:29
Quote:
T-Bone
Quote:
blucherquin
Quote:
RodneyRegis
These are different players and different coaches. This stuff about quins culture is nonsense.
We know why, it's the coaches. That's what we've been telling you for 4 seasons now. COS went well past his sell by date, and his replacement is not up to it.

Well according to EasterÔŅĹs post match - itÔŅĹs the players

What did he say? Missed that

Eaater

what is the atmosphere like in the dressing room at the moment?

Its like a morgue. To be honest, Iíd say that the performance was more embarrassing than it was disappointing. We were bested in every single aspect of the game, and for the most part by fourteen men. We couldnít look after the ball, we were very inaccurate, and Wasps did a job on us at the breakdown. We switched off in defense and didnít stick to our system principles. They had the edge at the set piece, and as a result, they had the lion's share of territory and possession. Obviously, we will be going over this match frenziedly, and then look to get the boys to re-group ahead of an immensely difficult match away at Welford Road. Leicester, like us, are struggling in terms of consistency and form, so this will be a huge test of character for the whole squad, and we must learn the lessons from this week. We canít afford to go off-script like we did this afternoon. There is a lot of work to be done, but Iím confident that we can get back at it.

There was some good rugby played by us today, despite the result. Consistency seems to be the biggest issue for us, how can we remedy this on the training pitch?

You do it by not conceding sloppy tries early in the match. We let their nine go through the centre of our ruck in the first half, which is something you simply cannot do at this level. We butchered a huge number of chances in the first half, and our urgency and accuracy at the breakdown was simply not good enough. Fair play to Wasps, they selected a side to attack us in those key areas, especially with the big lads that they brought off the bench at the death, but we just didnít front up. How the match was refereed is irrelevant Ė you have the power to dictate the pace of your ball, so thereís no point complaining about that. In the second half, we started really well with the Morris try, but again our accuracy let us down. We potentially mentally lapsed after the early red card, but the messages we sent on at the half way mark was to deal with the breakdown, and that is something which we failed to do.

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 09:02
That seems an accurate assessment of what went wrong, no?



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
blucherquin (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 09:06
Quote:
Jammy Git
That seems an accurate assessment of what went wrong, no?

Yeah but posted it coz heís clearly saying the players went AWOL and didnít do their jobs

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
T-Bone (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 09:08
Seem like reasonable comments. At the breakdown, Wallace seems to have completely lost his mojo, and I'm not sure it has anything to do with his hip. Ward doesn't seem to have adapted to the law changes at all. Not sure about the others really. But then if we do get quick ball it's pointless if our 9 then just stands there for a while then slowly throws the ball at our 10's feet

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Kent Fan (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 09:18
RR says different players and different coaches.....this is not completely true. The coaches have been there for a long time.....plus some of the new coaches were players.

One benefit of bringing in experienced internationals like Roberts, Horwill, Visser etc should be their nous and input into the training pitch atmosphere etc.

Weíve been STH since 2000 and JK was there before then Tofty was a player then a coach the list goes on. The only real big change was under Deano with Andy Friend and the legacy of this was the premiership winning squad. Deano being hired wasnít totally accepted initially but changed the ďcultureĒ especially the defence and took us from hardlywins to a team to fear.

We need someone a bit scary again to give the squad that edge again and for them to fulfill their playing potential. Brown, Care, Robshaw, Ward, Luamanu, Sinckler, Marler Horwill (when fit!) will not be there forever. Young Chis, Wallace, Clifford, Marcus will not stay if their international futures are at risk.....we need change!

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 10:55
Quote:
blucherquin
Quote:
Jammy Git
That seems an accurate assessment of what went wrong, no?

Yeah but posted it coz heís clearly saying the players went AWOL and didnít do their jobs

Er, they did go awol and didnít do their jobs - heís right. They are not learning and that is down to ineffective coaching. Players and coaches both need to step up, not just coaches. Senior players need to grab this by the collar ASAP and start leading otherwise itís freefall time...

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Cookie (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:01
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Quote:
blucherquin
Quote:
Jammy Git
That seems an accurate assessment of what went wrong, no?

Yeah but posted it coz heís clearly saying the players went AWOL and didnít do their jobs

Er, they did go awol and didnít do their jobs - heís right. They are not learning and that is down to ineffective coaching. Players and coaches both need to step up, not just coaches. Senior players need to grab this by the collar ASAP and start leading otherwise itís freefall time...

It's always felt to me like the players either don't understand (unlikely) or trust (likely) what they're being coached, so when push comes to shove, they revert to type. This would explain how we continually go behind in games before staging comebacks for wins or losing bonus points.

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
blucherquin (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 11:10
Quote:
Bolly-Quin
Quote:
blucherquin
Quote:
Jammy Git
That seems an accurate assessment of what went wrong, no?

Yeah but posted it coz heís clearly saying the players went AWOL and didnít do their jobs

Er, they did go awol and didnít do their jobs - heís right. They are not learning and that is down to ineffective coaching. Players and coaches both need to step up, not just coaches. Senior players need to grab this by the collar ASAP and start leading otherwise itís freefall time...

I'm not sure of the need for the "er". I posted his comments because Rodney said the coaching was at fault so Easter's interview clearly blaming the players was interesting.

Somehow this is being interpreted as me disagreeing with him.

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
T-Bone (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 12:46
Quote:
Kent Fan
RR says different players and different coaches.....this is not completely true. The coaches have been there for a long time.....plus some of the new coaches were players.
One benefit of bringing in experienced internationals like Roberts, Horwill, Visser etc should be their nous and input into the training pitch atmosphere etc.

Weíve been STH since 2000 and JK was there before then Tofty was a player then a coach the list goes on. The only real big change was under Deano with Andy Friend and the legacy of this was the premiership winning squad. Deano being hired wasnít totally accepted initially but changed the ďcultureĒ especially the defence and took us from hardlywins to a team to fear.

We need someone a bit scary again to give the squad that edge again and for them to fulfill their playing potential. Brown, Care, Robshaw, Ward, Luamanu, Sinckler, Marler Horwill (when fit!) will not be there forever. Young Chis, Wallace, Clifford, Marcus will not stay if their international futures are at risk.....we need change!

Agree with all of this bar the bit in bold, only in that I'm not sure Mat belongs in that list

Clifford's international future is at risk because he is broken more often than not.

Wallace's internal future is non-existent because other than a season and a half or so when he was excellent, he is largely not good enough. He seems to escape a lot of the criticism, and I'm never really sure why. I reckon Matthews contributesmore to a lot of our games than he does, for example.

 
Re: It's Not the Despair, Laura.
Bolly-Quin (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 16:47
Blucher - the ďerĒ was aimed at anyone that thinks the problem is uniquely to do with the coaches. Sorry for the confusion.

T-Bone - re Matthews/Wallace - agree. I have a feeling that LW lacks the upper body strength to compete at times - the Wasps ?Ellis was killing us at the breakdown and we didnít legally compete (Ward there, but penalised far too often) and Wallace cleaned out too easily.


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