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Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Cookie (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 08:35
Just catching up on social media and had a flick through the Quins FB posts. Good grief. It’s in total meltdown.

Post about Mother’s Day presents = JK Out
Post about Kids Community Day = JK Out
Catrikilis post-match interview = Club slaughtered for putting him up

And then of course there’s the match day posts that have not a single positive/mitigating comment.

This is where the club will be forced into a change along with the walk outs. The club can’t allow the public face of Harlequins to be what it is on Facebook. 103k followers are seeing nothing but misery and complaints.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 08:59
The worm has definitely turned in terms of general feeling towards the club.

I think whilst there was always a fairly large section of people who thought that things weren't right, even when we scraped 6th last season, at the ground itself things generally felt positive, and there were still a good number of people on CAW (and therefore presumably Facebook as well...can't say I use it) who supported the current setup.

But that's steadily been changing in the last few weeks. On here certain people who have always supported JK and co have started to accept there are problems, and again I imagine that is mirrored on Facebook.

But most worryingly is how that is bleeding into the matchday crowd. The atmosphere at the Newcastle game was horrendous. Even when we scored early the cheers were fairly muted and I think people still feared the worst. In the second half, when the players seemed to give up, there were boos, and sighs and it felt as if the whole club was sinking.

I don't know whether the board care about the atmosphere at the ground if the tickets are sold (12,400 allegedly on Saturday), and I don't know if they care about the message boards or Facebook if the sponsorship money keeps rolling in.

But whichever way they look at it, from a rugby perspective there is very little positivity at the club anymore and that is hugely disappointing.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Teddington Taff (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 11:07
I share everyone's disappointment at the last few results. But.... I'm still a committed Quins supporter and will remain so.
I remember a season where we went 9 games on the trot without a win and the support remained just as strong for the team and club.
The trouble with the current spate of posts is that everyone wants to use the sort of headline grabbing comments that are seen in the Daily Mail and other such banal papers.
Lets get a grip and get behind the players and the club and stop behaving as if it was a life and death situation.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 11:16
Quote:
Teddington Taff
I share everyone's disappointment at the last few results. But.... I'm still a committed Quins supporter and will remain so.
I remember a season where we went 9 games on the trot without a win and the support remained just as strong for the team and club.
The trouble with the current spate of posts is that everyone wants to use the sort of headline grabbing comments that are seen in the Daily Mail and other such banal papers.
Lets get a grip and get behind the players and the club and stop behaving as if it was a life and death situation.

+1



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 11:22
Quote:
Teddington Taff
I share everyone's disappointment at the last few results. But.... I'm still a committed Quins supporter and will remain so.
I remember a season where we went 9 games on the trot without a win and the support remained just as strong for the team and club.
The trouble with the current spate of posts is that everyone wants to use the sort of headline grabbing comments that are seen in the Daily Mail and other such banal papers.
Lets get a grip and get behind the players and the club and stop behaving as if it was a life and death situation.

I don't think anyone is saying it's a life or death situation.

And the reason people get so animated about it is BECAUSE we support the club strongly not because we don't.

Again it's this idea that because someone doesn't complain it makes them a more committed supporter, and I'm afraid that's just complete nonsense.

I agree that the fans cannot abandon the club just because we're losing, but that has to go both ways. The reason people were leaving early in the last couple of home games was because the team played like they'd given up.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 11:34
I disagree slightly. I dont think the players ever give up, we were just beaten by better sides with good tactics.

Never said not complaining makes anyone a better supporter but if you will allow me to say that the incessant criticism of everything the Club tries is such a constant downer.
The rest of us get the point. People are unhappy but to keep banging on about it just depresses me frankly.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 11:50
Quote:
Scaramouche
I disagree slightly. I dont think the players ever give up, we were just beaten by better sides with good tactics.
Never said not complaining makes anyone a better supporter but if you will allow me to say that the incessant criticism of everything the Club tries is such a constant downer.
The rest of us get the point. People are unhappy but to keep banging on about it just depresses me frankly.

And it's fine if you don't like it.

But it doesn't mean that everyone else is wrong.

I agree that it's annoying when people just react negatively to everything that the club does, mainly because it detracts from the things the club is actually doing quite well, and distracts from the things the club are actually doing badly.

But when so little is being done to try and fix things, that sort of negativity will build and build, so I'd get used to it if I were you.

As for the players' efforts...I really didn't see them giving 100% in that second half on Saturday.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Cookie (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 12:33
Here we go again with the 'this is how to support your club' lesson.

It's just not that simple. For the record, I've been to (I think) every home game this season and a handful of away games. Saturday was the first I didn't watch 'live' one way or t'other.

Therefore, I feel well within my rights to make criticisms and leave early (as I did at the Wasps game). And all bets are off when the whistle blows for KO - I'm sure every fan is behind the team 100%.

Yes, there are some that are Johnny-come-latelies who demand instant success. But far more of us are long-standing supporters who think the players are being let down by the coaching.

It would be well worth reading some of the FB threads to see how far some of these fans are traveling - I think some take it for granted that the fans must be locals. They're not. They're coming from Kent, the Midlands, Hampshire etc.

And some are long-in-tooth Quins fans who see the club heading in the direction of relegation again. This time they want to voice their concern/anger to avoid it happening again.

There is more than one way of supporting the club and nobody can tell anyone else they're doing it wrong.

But my original point remains that this is probably the best way unhappy fans have to be influential. Quins don't want their primary social media channel to be the toxic place it has become, regardless of whether some think it is right or wrong of them to do so.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
ArchQuin (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 12:47
As usual - well said Cookie....

The Club need to know how supporters feel - (not all obviously!)

The coaches and the players are to blame but we can't sack all the players so unfortunately the coaching set-up needs to change (soon)

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
DOK. (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 12:53
Well as long as the bish type people have somewhere to vent, then I'm glad. smiling smiley Though to be fair most of the comments are no more toxic than on here. I don't think the club can continue to ignore all this. I mean, yes you can say "why take any notice of an unofficial message board?" but it's a bit harder when it's your official social media sites.

Of course if they're not going to move JK elsewhere then what can they do? Stick to the script seems to be the current approach. Keep quiet, get one of the players to discuss the match after the game and move quietly on to the next one.

But now is the time fans WANT communication from the club. What I think we all want to hear is that the club recognises the situation as sub-optimal (to say the least!), recognises what went wrong to get here and can reassure fans there is a master plan to get us out! This silence just let's the roar of frustration get louder!

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
blucherquin (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 16:55
I’d happily (ish) watch any series of defeats if I was watching better sides win tough matches against us.

I’m not - I’m watching Quins playing with no sense, no purpose, in total disarray at times, apparently disunited and clueless - hence I’m angry.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 16:59
Quote:
Scaramouche
I disagree slightly. I dont think the players ever give up, we were just beaten by better sides with good tactics.
Never said not complaining makes anyone a better supporter but if you will allow me to say that the incessant criticism of everything the Club tries is such a constant downer.
The rest of us get the point. People are unhappy but to keep banging on about it just depresses me frankly.

What on earth do you expect us to discuss?

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Cookie (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 17:06
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Quote:
Scaramouche
I disagree slightly. I dont think the players ever give up, we were just beaten by better sides with good tactics.
Never said not complaining makes anyone a better supporter but if you will allow me to say that the incessant criticism of everything the Club tries is such a constant downer.
The rest of us get the point. People are unhappy but to keep banging on about it just depresses me frankly.

What on earth do you expect us to discuss?

Quite. If you don't want to read any criticism of the club, I'd take a break from CAW, FOTSAH & Quins' FB & Twitter feeds.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
quinsfan123 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 19:45
Well said cookie would reiterate exactly that: fans have the right to voice their concerns and should not receive criticm/condemnation for seeming somewhat overly negative. True fans have the best interest of their club at heart and may need to be negative to get their message across and try an influence the club in this way.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
DOK. (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 20:12
Well they won't influence the club here, so does that mean they can be more optimistic? smiling smiley

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Roaming Quin (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 20:58
I travel from Suffolk and generally enjoy my day at The Stoop win or lose but what I saw against Wasps unfortunately my last game this season was unacceptable and signs are it will only get worse, players don’t turn up to lose but the coaching staff are not doing their job and the only voice us spectators have is to voice on social media and walk out of the stadium.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
QuinAlan (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 22:01
Its been coming for 2/3 years, the signs were there, small ones at first, but now gaping holes. Someone at board level needs to take a firm grip & sort this mess out..!!

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
kevin (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 22:32
Quote:
DOK
Well they won't influence the club here, so does that mean they can be more optimistic? smiling smiley
Are you saying only optimistic bods should voice on here?

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
blucherquin (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 22:40
Quins woes aside - I wouldn’t worry about what people say on Facebook.

Read the comments on pretty much anything and they are basically...

“It’s appalling and must be stopped”
“You’re saying that because you’re racist”
“You’re a snowflake”
“You’re a sexist”
“You’re virtue signalling”
“You’ve got insults rather than arguments”
“You’re ignoring the facts”
“Your facts are fake”
“You’re too young to understand”
“You’re an old bigot”
“Immigration”
“Trump”
“Muslims”
“Brexit”
“Ooh look a cat fell off a sofa”
“Awww I love cats”

So not sure it proves anything.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
SiBolton (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 06:10
I was fully behind the coaching and management
And kept seeing glimmers of improvement , but after 4 lost games on the bounce ( first time in 11 years I think) I really doubt there is any plan B
Personally I would rather see Jk as head coach, as a team we achieved more when he was in that position, and get in a new DOR
For some reason the club chose to promote him, and it’s not working.
There are a large number on FB Page that don’t seem to see the difference between coach and DOR,
And just say the coach is rubbish JK must go, but ignore Tofty,Colin, Easter, Wiggy & co
I would like to hear JK has grabbed the bull by the horns and brought in XYZ to fix the problems, But just can’t see it happening and expect we will grind on relentlessly with no statement from the club.
If that’s the case then the Club obviously don’t give a monkeys about the club and are more interested in the “ Brand” and that is a great shame, if you do that you will end up being another Virgin megastore, C&A, MFI etc



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 27/02/2018 07:43 by DOK.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
DOK. (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 07:50
Agree with you right up to the last sentence. I believe from previous statements from the two Davids that the club does care and I'm sure the business side is no happier with the current situation than the playing side.

I don't know if the club is now intending to get to the end of the season and then have a damned good review of where we are. This gives JK & Co time (as if they needed more) to turn things around or crash and burn. And in the off season we'll sort out something else.

All seems a little hands off to me. But the biggest "hands on" from the club was renewing the coaches contracts. Is that a vote of confidence in the team management or what is the message?

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 08:08
Quote:
SiBolton
I was fully behind the coaching and management
And kept seeing glimmers of improvement , but after 4 lost games on the bounce ( first time in 11 years I think) I really doubt there is any plan B
Personally I would rather see Jk as head coach, as a team we achieved more when he was in that position, and get in a new DOR
For some reason the club chose to promote him, and it’s not working.
There are a large number on FB Page that don’t seem to see the difference between coach and DOR,
And just say the coach is rubbish JK must go, but ignore Tofty,Colin, Easter, Wiggy & co
I would like to hear JK has grabbed the bull by the horns and brought in XYZ to fix the problems, But just can’t see it happening and expect we will grind on relentlessly with no statement from the club.
If that’s the case then the Club obviously don’t give a monkeys about the club and are more interested in the “ Brand” and that is a great shame, if you do that you will end up being another Virgin megastore, C&A, MFI etc

We have our watershed chaps.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 08:28
Quote:
DOK
Agree with you right up to the last sentence. I believe from previous statements from the two Davids that the club does care and I'm sure the business side is no happier with the current situation than the playing side.
I don't know if the club is now intending to get to the end of the season and then have a damned good review of where we are. This gives JK & Co time (as if they needed more) to turn things around or crash and burn. And in the off season we'll sort out something else.

All seems a little hands off to me. But the biggest "hands on" from the club was renewing the coaches contracts. Is that a vote of confidence in the team management or what is the message?

It's very hard to know what the club are thinking because their decision to renew contracts in the first place seemed to be based on very little.

If they are going to conduct a review at the end of the season, what on earth were they doing before renewing the contracts?

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
fandg2 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 08:41
Quote:
talkshowhost86

It's very hard to know what the club are thinking because their decision to renew contracts in the first place seemed to be based on very little.


I think it was just based on, 'we're not going to get relegated this season we know it takes time to build a side so here's time to go and build a side'.

FWIW I believe the current demise is mainly down to two reason's. The team's 'spine' is weak during the international period ie positions 2, 8, 9, 10, 15 and we haven't developed enough leaders when the Internationals are away. Hopefully both will get sorted in the fullness of time. AIMHO

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Stooperman (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 09:08
Quote:
fandg2
Quote:
talkshowhost86

It's very hard to know what the club are thinking because their decision to renew contracts in the first place seemed to be based on very little.


I think it was just based on, 'we're not going to get relegated this season we know it takes time to build a side so here's time to go and build a side'.

FWIW I believe the current demise is mainly down to two reason's. The team's 'spine' is weak during the international period ie positions 2, 8, 9, 10, 15 and we haven't developed enough leaders when the Internationals are away. Hopefully both will get sorted in the fullness of time. AIMHO

^^ Agree about the spine of the team. In addition, Care, Robshaw and Brown are 31,31, nd 32. They are going to play an immense amount of rugby in the lead up to next years RWC. I would expect them to need some time off after that, & they are bound to become less effective and more injury prone as the years roll on. We need to be looking at where their replacements are coming from. At the moment the academy lads, Clifford/Wallace, Waters, and Chisholm Sr look nowhere near the levels of their illustrious predecessors.

Horwill is showing signs of becoming more prone to injury as he ages, and Lambert will be retiring. Dave Ward (not everyones favourite granted) is coming to the end of his career also. A lot of recruitment and restructuring will be needed in the next 2 years, & we need to be confident that the current group of scouts, coaches and the DOR are capable of doing this. At the moment the signs arent that promising!

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 09:25
Quote:
fandg2
Quote:
talkshowhost86

It's very hard to know what the club are thinking because their decision to renew contracts in the first place seemed to be based on very little.


I think it was just based on, 'we're not going to get relegated this season we know it takes time to build a side so here's time to go and build a side'.

FWIW I believe the current demise is mainly down to two reason's. The team's 'spine' is weak during the international period ie positions 2, 8, 9, 10, 15 and we haven't developed enough leaders when the Internationals are away. Hopefully both will get sorted in the fullness of time. AIMHO

I don't really understand that approach because if they thought it takes longer than two seasons to build a side, why not give him a longer contract in the first place?

And whilst we obviously do get weakened by internationals, blaming it mainly on that ignores that fact that we've been pretty useless when we've had all of those players available, and in any case it's hardly an excuse as the international call-ups are not a surprise for anyone.

I think the contract renewals were based purely and simply on the fact that the club think JK and co had done a good job up to that point...or at least a good enough job that it wasn't worth them spending any more money. That's the thing that worries me.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 09:56
Quote:
Stooperman
Quote:
fandg2
Quote:
talkshowhost86

It's very hard to know what the club are thinking because their decision to renew contracts in the first place seemed to be based on very little.


I think it was just based on, 'we're not going to get relegated this season we know it takes time to build a side so here's time to go and build a side'.

FWIW I believe the current demise is mainly down to two reason's. The team's 'spine' is weak during the international period ie positions 2, 8, 9, 10, 15 and we haven't developed enough leaders when the Internationals are away. Hopefully both will get sorted in the fullness of time. AIMHO

^^ Agree about the spine of the team. In addition, Care, Robshaw and Brown are 31,31, nd 32. They are going to play an immense amount of rugby in the lead up to next years RWC. I would expect them to need some time off after that, & they are bound to become less effective and more injury prone as the years roll on. We need to be looking at where their replacements are coming from. At the moment the academy lads, Clifford/Wallace, Waters, and Chisholm Sr look nowhere near the levels of their illustrious predecessors.

Horwill is showing signs of becoming more prone to injury as he ages, and Lambert will be retiring. Dave Ward (not everyones favourite granted) is coming to the end of his career also. A lot of recruitment and restructuring will be needed in the next 2 years, & we need to be confident that the current group of scouts, coaches and the DOR are capable of doing this. At the moment the signs arent that promising!

Good reasoning there. I do wonder if the Club renewed the Coaches Contracts in an effort to spike the guns of what was going to be the inevitable storm of protest during a transition period (yes I know that's an oft used phrase with Quins). I believe that the targets for JK may be a little different or lower than we would like initially but these are experienced people who know everybody's birthday one imagines and are working hard on succession planning and recruitment. Thats kinda why I am prepared to give it time. If we are bottom with no wins at Xmas I will gladly join the "we need change" bandwagon.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Dark Pies (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 09:56
Will Carling on Twitter

Will Carling
@willcarling

Look like some serious questions to be asked at Quins. Or some serious and honest discussions behind closed doors.....#Quins #COYQ

______

What i find interesting is that until last weekend, negative chat about Quins on social media was always countered by a few 'positive thinkers', but now you struggle to find anyone defending the status quo or claiming our current malaise is just a blip.
If we lose on Friday i'm not sure how the club will be able to continue to stick its fingers in its ears and claim all is well.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 10:10
There is definitely a gathering storm because we are a results based business no doubt. One question, would a clear out now help or just stall the rebuilding process. ie we all seem to agree that COS benefited from the foundations laid by Deano after that whose name cannot be mentioned so maybe we need to hold our resolve a little longer possibly, IMVHO....



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 10:17
Quote:
Scaramouche
There is definitely a gathering storm because we are a results based business no doubt. One question, would a clear out now help or just stall the rebuilding process. ie we all seem to agree that COS benefited from the foundations laid by Deano after that whose name cannot be mentioned so maybe we need to hold our resolve a little longer possibly, IMVHO....

Stall what rebuilding process though?

We're getting worse and worse so I fail to see how there's a rebuilding process that can be stalled.

And I think the reason COS benefited from Deano did is because Deano did largely start again.

We're coming off the back of 8-9 years of many of the same people being involved, so I don't think we're suddenly going to see any better foundations put down. If anything, the problem is that the foundations have been down for a long time, and they need to be replaced.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 10:29
I accept that JK has been long involved but he has only been DOR for a relatively short while and as I think we all agree, being DOR is a whole different kettle of fish.

I think I am right in saying that some of the things JK has done like getting rid of Yarde and most of his signings and bringing on Academy players has been seen as good work.

Ultimately I want what is best for the Team but there is more than one way to go about it.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Cookie (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 11:16
Quote:
Scaramouche
I accept that JK has been long involved but he has only been DOR for a relatively short while and as I think we all agree, being DOR is a whole different kettle of fish.
I think I am right in saying that some of the things JK has done like getting rid of Yarde and most of his signings and bringing on Academy players has been seen as good work.

Ultimately I want what is best for the Team but there is more than one way to go about it.

The Yarde situation was an anomaly and clearly something the other players wanted. Had to be done.

Bringing on the Academy players? Really? Who are we talking about here, bearing in mind I think we got a little lucky with Smith by virtue of having to play him.

Can’t really say any of the signings have worked out especially well, not that he can be blamed for some getting injured. He is responsible for Lewis, Swainston, Naopu, Jackson, McNulty.

Name 3 things that JK can’t take positive credit from.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
joebe99 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 11:29
Quote:
talkshowhost86

We're coming off the back of 8-9 years of many of the same people being involved, so I don't think we're suddenly going to see any better foundations put down. If anything, the problem is that the foundations have been down for a long time, and they need to be replaced.

This ^^^^^

Things have gone stale and most of them are out of their depth. We should have grabbed Cockers when we had the chance.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
joebe99 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 11:46
Carling has his say....

[twitter.com]

Look like some serious questions to be asked at Quins. Or some serious and honest discussions behind closed doors.....#Quins #COYQ

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:07
Quote:
Scaramouche
I accept that JK has been long involved but he has only been DOR for a relatively short while and as I think we all agree, being DOR is a whole different kettle of fish.
I think I am right in saying that some of the things JK has done like getting rid of Yarde and most of his signings and bringing on Academy players has been seen as good work.

Ultimately I want what is best for the Team but there is more than one way to go about it.

He got rid of an international fringe winger because he couldn't control him.

He's played Marcus smith because he had no choice.

He's signed a bunch of sick notes and Dave Lewis.


Not good.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
DruidsLodge (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:11
He hasn't been in for a fairly short while, that's utterly incorrect I'm afraid.

This is his 2nd crack at it. Remember all that curious walking about in the in goal area ?

"It had got to the point of no return, we simply had to act," said Harlequins manager Mike Scott last night. "Mark had a number of discussions with John about how we can try and turn the tide.

That was 16 years and 2 days ago.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:15
Yes, but he could turn it all around in the next 12 months!

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
DOK. (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:16
Yes, it's exactly the same game and the same game to manage as it was 16 years ago.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
DruidsLodge (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:19
Same results that's for sure.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:20
Quote:
DOK
Yes, it's exactly the same game and the same game to manage as it was 16 years ago.

Very odd response. If he was terrible 16 years ago, why would he be good now?

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
le tiss (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:28
If just give JK some more time I am sure he will start winning some games. Trouble is it will be in the Championship.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
T-Bone (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:35
His signings are hard to judge in some ways.

On paper, he has made some good signings in Cat, Saili and, to a lesser extent Bothma and Earle.

He has been very unlucky with injuries to the first three of those. Bothma has looked good when he's played, but he's played so little it's still too early for me to say if iut was a good or bad signing.

A couple of his signings were less impressive on paper - Boyce and Elia (I think that was JK) - but have turned out very well. I'll caveat that slightly with Elia in that as with Bothma, he's looked great when he's played, but hasn;t played enough to know if he can sustain that.

Lewis was imho a poor signing.

Some of the others were signed as squad players and as such, as expected, we've not really seen much of them so hard to judge.

Earle looks like he should be a good signing, and I think JK did well getting rid of Yarde, but if other players are now unhappy, and that is a bif if, perhaps Yarde wasn't as disruptive as we were lead to believe. Sounds like he was though based on Joe and Chris' comments.

I can't really see what rebuilding we are doing. JK ingerited a squad comprised of some excellent players, some average players who've been here for ages, and some pretty limited squad players CoS signed. The make up is still the same, but those average CoS signings have just been replaced to a large extent with average JK signings.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
ArchQuin (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:45
I believe leaving things as they are now in the hope of improvement next season are a bit of a 'head in the sand' approach - maybe's, ifs, buts (sounds like Brexit!)

I think some would have more confidence if JK talked a good match as though he really knows what he is doing and how to turn things around - his communication skills are somewhat lacking I would suggest!
Surely we should be looking at someone to come in, assess the squad/coaching staff and look to bring in some fresh faces, or recruitment-wise we will be way behind the game anyhow.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Stooperman (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 13:09
^^
I think this part of the reason people are feeling frustrated. If we felt as if JK had analysed our failings and had a plan to fix them, there would be some hope of improvement. Instead we get the same waffle each week about having trained well, and the scoreline not reflecting the game blah blah blah.

I appreciate that he can't slag of the players, or indeed the coaching staff. But he can at least say, we need to some work on the lineout this week, or the lads who missed tackles will be having extra tackle bag training this week! At least something to show that he actually has an idea of what is going wrong.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
T-Bone (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 21:30
And, even if he doesnt actually believe it, perhaps he could acknowledge that he shares some of the blame, like kennedy and jones did this weekend, instead of suggesting it is all down to the players or rotten luck.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
SiBolton (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 23:36
Quote:
DOK
Agree with you right up to the last sentence. I believe from previous statements from the two Davids that the club does care and I'm sure the business side is no happier with the current situation than the playing side.
I don't know if the club is now intending to get to the end of the season and then have a damned good review of where we are. This gives JK & Co time (as if they needed more) to turn things around or crash and burn. And in the off season we'll sort out something else.

All seems a little hands off to me. But the biggest "hands on" from the club was renewing the coaches contracts. Is that a vote of confidence in the team management or what is the message?

Have to agree but my point about other businesses is that they never expected the tide to turn and go out of business, but the most Vermont supporters of the club I know are all starting to question their loyalty to the club as a hole, and that’s not good for business, the contract extensions where poorly timed



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/02/2018 23:38 by SiBolton.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
DamonQuins (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 07:47
Bumped into lots of Quins fans in the pub after the game.....not one defended JK, or come to that the club....

I think we're at a real cross roads. The arrogant attitude of some ex players (now coaches) and management is starting to really damage the Quins brand.

I think the club needs to be very careful as I'm sure it wouldn't actually take that many season ticket owners (10%) to not renew and put the club at financial risk given the on going loses and top salaries of many players.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Mayor West (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 13:50
I wouldn't read too much into the contract renewals. I'm told that around six months before your current contract is up that if you do not renew or are not required any longer you would be put on gardening leave. If they wanted rid of anybody they would have done it now as there would be little motivation in knowing you're out of the job whatever in six months. You can still be sacked but would receive pay for your entire contract length. We would then have to find new people half way through the season which hasn't gone that well at Saints. They might have been told that if nothing changes then you're out at the end of the season with the contracts being the motivation.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 15:33
But there are plenty of instances where its announced that players are moving on but still finish the season with their current club?

Or are you talking about players that are unlikely to find another Club?



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Mayor West (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 17:01
I was talking about management rather than players but may equally apply to certain players. Part of our problem could be that several players have agreed deals at new clubs and don't care about the rest of the season as their future is secure and they can't win anything with us. Players out of contract but looking for one are more likely to keep going so they get noticed. If you had a fully fit squad and the players that are moving were not performing, ideally you would leave them out. Management may also hold sensitive information about a club and take it with them to their new employers which doesn't help either hence the period of gardening leave between jobs. That's how I'm told it works in the corporate world and would think it's similar to prem clubs.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Cookie (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 17:07
An interesting point was put to me last night that perhaps JK's new contract included an exit clause for Quins if we didn't make the top 6. That would make a lot of sense, but of course, it's wild speculation.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 17:28
Interesting point. That would imply that da Management have a successor lined up. As they did a world search before and came up with status quo it does make you think.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 17:46
Quote:
Cookie
An interesting point was put to me last night that perhaps JK's new contract included an exit clause for Quins if we didn't make the top 6. That would make a lot of sense, but of course, it's wild speculation.

Would be sensible if that's what was happening but I'm not sure it makes much sense.

Wouldn't you instead say to them that they would get a new contract if they come 6th? Not give them the contract first.

 
Re: Quins FB Has Gone Full Toxic
Dibden (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 18:35
To keep his job it is in DE’s interest to pretend things are generally moving in the right direction and to give full support to JK.If we finish in the bottom 3 disappointment will be expressed but JK will
have the confidence of the board to turn things round.
Don’t rock the boat is the view from the top


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