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JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
28 February, 2018 09:17
Not once has he taken any responsibility, not once does he wonder what is going wrong, not once does he question the Coaching ability....just spin and excuses....Nothing more to say! This message board must be the vehicle for me to voice these opinions surely? But not only is it obvious that he has lost the dressing room.....you also get the impression that the journalists asking the questions don't even take him seriously!!!

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Stooperman (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 09:37
I actually heard him use the expression "we'll get Friday out of the way", which sounds a lot like he is already accepting and preparing the team for a defeat on Friday night. That is unacceptable!

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
FBQuin (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 09:55
Agree Gents.
Surely not difficult to accept that top 6 is out of the question now! Does he expect us to win our next 3-4 games with try bonus points? Get real. I think he is in denial and hoping he will wake up and that it is all a bad dream! I agree that his comment "get Friday out of the way" means another loss! Still I expect they will have trained well!
I have written in other posts as have others, that even if people do not renew, there will be others to take their place. Would we part with money for a substandard product?

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Cookie (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 10:35
It would be helpful if the journos could ask some tougher questions.

I'd have liked to have seen him under the same pressure that Wenger was put under earlier.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 10:35
The Facebook interview with Rowntree was very honest. He definitely accepts that somethings wrong and wants to correct it.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 10:45
Quote:
Cookie
It would be helpful if the journos could ask some tougher questions.
I'd have liked to have seen him under the same pressure that Wenger was put under earlier.

Agreed, I think the standard of rugby journalism (in terms of interviewing etc) is very poor at times.

It's all a bit chummy and I think that means important or controversial questions are avoided.

What was the context of the 'lets get Friday out of the way' comment? I can't listen to it at work irritatingly.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Cookie (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 11:02
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
Cookie
It would be helpful if the journos could ask some tougher questions.
I'd have liked to have seen him under the same pressure that Wenger was put under earlier.

Agreed, I think the standard of rugby journalism (in terms of interviewing etc) is very poor at times.

It's all a bit chummy and I think that means important or controversial questions are avoided.

What was the context of the 'lets get Friday out of the way' comment? I can't listen to it at work irritatingly.

'Haven't really looked at it to be honest with you' was his initial response! Then went on about the opportunity to regain some pride etc.

He seemed to be saying let's get Friday out of the way and then see where we are in relation to the top 6. Total dodge. Seems to be trying to delay answering the question until we actually win another game.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 11:48
To be fair to JK I wouldn't expect him to come out and say '6th is out of the question' as what motivation does that give the players for the rest of the season?

But I do expect him to take responsibility for why we aren't really in that battle right now, and I do expect him to try and gee the players up for Friday rather than simply saying let's see after the game.

Of course there's always a possibility that there is a very different message being given to the players than to the cameras, but what would then be the benefit of appearing so timid and unresponsive when being interviewed?

It's just all very disheartening.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 11:51

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 12:01
(Sm92)



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
T-Bone (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 12:09
Quote:
Scaramouche
The Facebook interview with Rowntree was very honest. He definitely accepts that somethings wrong and wants to correct it.

Yep, read that earlier (in the post match analysis email they send).

The journo said something like "after a run of unlucky losses" and he came back and dais they weren't unlucky. At lease he has the decency not to hide from the truth

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 12:16
Quote:
T-Bone
Quote:
Scaramouche
The Facebook interview with Rowntree was very honest. He definitely accepts that somethings wrong and wants to correct it.

Yep, read that earlier (in the post match analysis email they send).

The journo said something like "after a run of unlucky losses" and he came back and dais they weren't unlucky. At lease he has the decency not to hide from the truth

And fair play to him for that.

A series of unlucky losses? Ridiculous.

Well done GR for not accepting that sort of soft-ball questioning.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Fursty (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 15:12
Quote:
Stooperman
I actually heard him use the expression "we'll get Friday out of the way", which sounds a lot like he is already accepting and preparing the team for a defeat on Friday night. That is unacceptable!

To be fair to JK that's a complete misrepresentation of what he said - he was asked if top 6 was out gone and said that he'd reassess following Friday's game.

I'm fully on board with the idea that things need to change and I'd happily see JK replaced, however peddling #fakenews doesn't do anyone any favours.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 15:41
Any stick etc....



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Stooperman (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:02
Quote:
Fursty
Quote:
Stooperman
I actually heard him use the expression "we'll get Friday out of the way", which sounds a lot like he is already accepting and preparing the team for a defeat on Friday night. That is unacceptable!

To be fair to JK that's a complete misrepresentation of what he said - he was asked if top 6 was out gone and said that he'd reassess following Friday's game.

I'm fully on board with the idea that things need to change and I'd happily see JK replaced, however peddling #fakenews doesn't do anyone any favours.

You've just posted Fake news, Fursty. HE did say "we'll get Friday out of the way first". So I didn't misrepresent him at all. Listen to the clip again. Its rather annoying to be accused of misrepresenting JK, when I actually quoted him verbatim.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:07
What was the context?



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Stooperman (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:15
The context was the reporter asking whether top 6 was now gone. He rambled on for a while and then said "we'll get Friday out of the way then reassess". You don't approach a home fixture against one of your potential top 6 rivals by saying "we'll get Friday out of the way". How on earth does that sound to the team, to the supporters, frankly to anyone? ITs just a terrible defeatist sounding way to express himself.

As people have pointed out above, there are many examples of managers taking responsibility for defeat, or putting pressure on the opposition with mind games, or instilling confidence in their players by saying "we have a plan for Friday, I think it will catch Bath by surprise", anything...anything but saying "We'll get Friday out of the way & then we'll reassess"

This is amongst many other things is why he is not the right man for the job. But hey, according to other posters we will judge him by our league position at the end of the season. So lets wait & see if this miracle resurrection of our form appears eh?

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:25
Oh ok. So is he not just being truthful and realistic? I would hope that the chat with the players is a completely different approach. Does JK understand that he is judged by every word he utters? The camera swivels to him every time something good or bad happens on the pitch a la wendyball. Maybe JK is just a Training Course short of being Mr Angry on TV. Or maybe he trusts his Coaches to work hard towards achieving what we all want and manage and motivate the players accordingly.

IMVHO of course smiling smiley



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:26
I can't listen to it right now, but "we have a plan for Friday, I think it will catch Bath by surprise" isn't an answer to a question about whether top 6 is out of the picture.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
ChipsteadQuin (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:36
Transcript

Q - "Do you have to accept that the Top 6 is beyond you now ?"

JK - "I haven't looked at that to be honest . Ive just said to them in there we have a game on Friday night and for me that's about getting some pride back into us as a group of people . Having Bath at home is our opportunity to get Pride back. I just want them to get out there and put in a performance to be proud of , that opportunity comes on Friday so we'll get Friday out of the way and then have a look and see where we are at."

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
fandg2 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:37
"We'll get Friday out of the way & then we'll reassess"

I actually can't see what the problem is with this. After Friday Quin's don't have a game until the 19th March, which is an A league game with the next prem game not until the 24th. A bit of time just to step back from week in and week out hub bub of trying to get a team ready for the next match and take stock.

Why do people try to read so much into everything

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Stooperman (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:38
Quote:
Jammy Git
I can't listen to it right now, but "we have a plan for Friday, I think it will catch Bath by surprise" isn't an answer to a question about whether top 6 is out of the picture.

Well, unless we beat Bath on Friday, top 6 is slightly more unrealistic than La La Land...so yes if a DOR is not saying that top 6 is out of the question, an expression of confidence or at least the hint of a plan is kind of crucial. Saying "We'll get Friday out of the way" is such a downbeat awful phrase.

Anyway, have a listen Jammy and see what you think. To me it sounds like a defeated and demoralised man who doesn't have a clue what is going to turn things around.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:39
fandg. Quite.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/02/2018 16:45 by Scaramouche.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:44
Quote:
ChipsteadQuin
Transcript
Q - "Do you have to accept that the Top 6 is beyond you now ?"

JK - "I haven't looked at that to be honest . Ive just said to them in there we have a game on Friday night and for me that's about getting some pride back into us as a group of people . Having Bath at home is our opportunity to get Pride back. I just want them to get out there and put in a performance to be proud of , that opportunity comes on Friday so we'll get Friday out of the way and then have a look and see where we are at."

Truly Churchillian.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:48
So JK is rubbish because he does not come across as you would want in the meeja?

God give me strength.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:51
Quote:
Scaramouche
So JK is rubbish because he does not come across as you would want in the meeja?
God give me strength.

*looks for where anyone made that argument*

*keeps looking*

*has a final look around*

eye rolling smiley

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:55
Churchillian?

Am I missing something?



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Cookie (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 16:59
I find it a little absurd that the Top 6 question can't be answered until we've played another game. He admitted we were out of the Top 4 race the other week. Even if he said 'we must win on Friday to stay in the race' would have made sense.

Friday is one of our 3 remaining home games and we have Sarries & Glos away (as well as Exeter at home and we all know how that went last time).

We're 3/4 of the way through the season with 6 games left and 12 points behind 6th. Not to see it as an absolutely must-win game is boggling.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 17:01
Quote:
Scaramouche
Churchillian?
Am I missing something?

You mean apart from all of the other reasons that have been given for me thinking JK should go? But yeah...he's rubbish just because of what he says in the media.

As you say...give me strength.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 17:21
So you were wrong then?smiling smiley



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 17:44
Quote:
Scaramouche
So you were wrong then?smiling smiley

*shrug*

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Jammy Git (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 17:44
Quote:
Stooperman
Quote:
Jammy Git
I can't listen to it right now, but "we have a plan for Friday, I think it will catch Bath by surprise" isn't an answer to a question about whether top 6 is out of the picture.

Well, unless we beat Bath on Friday, top 6 is slightly more unrealistic than La La Land...so yes if a DOR is not saying that top 6 is out of the question, an expression of confidence or at least the hint of a plan is kind of crucial. Saying "We'll get Friday out of the way" is such a downbeat awful phrase.

Anyway, have a listen Jammy and see what you think. To me it sounds like a defeated and demoralised man who doesn't have a clue what is going to turn things around.

Far more worried about him talking about playing for pride on Friday, which is usually what losers talk about. Pride should taken for granted.



O Fortuna, velut luna statu variabilis,
semper crescis aut decrescis

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
RleQuin (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 00:42
More rubbish from the man in charge!
RleQ

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Quinten Poulsen (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 01:07
Quote:
Jammy Git
Quote:
Stooperman
Quote:
Jammy Git
I can't listen to it right now, but "we have a plan for Friday, I think it will catch Bath by surprise" isn't an answer to a question about whether top 6 is out of the picture.

Well, unless we beat Bath on Friday, top 6 is slightly more unrealistic than La La Land...so yes if a DOR is not saying that top 6 is out of the question, an expression of confidence or at least the hint of a plan is kind of crucial. Saying "We'll get Friday out of the way" is such a downbeat awful phrase.

Anyway, have a listen Jammy and see what you think. To me it sounds like a defeated and demoralised man who doesn't have a clue what is going to turn things around.

Far more worried about him talking about playing for pride on Friday, which is usually what losers talk about. Pride should taken for granted.

He's not wrong though, is he? We are losers at the moment, and I suppose he sees the first step of trying to get out of this rut as playing with pride rather than worrying about league positions.

I can't see anything wrong with what he said, considering the poor position we're in.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
SiBolton (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 07:13
Well lets face it the media is Harlequins, so hardly likely to slate anyone or ask difficult questions
I dont believe that after stating top 6 is the goal after Tigers JK doesnt know the ramifications of getting no points from the game, that being said I dont think hes writing Friday night off and thinks it will be a loss with Lets get it out of the way comment, but hear whatever you like.

The problem has to lie with whats happening in the dressing room and at SSP, I would really like to see an interview with Tofty and someone asking
What are the reasons for us losing 4 on the bounce for the first time in 11 years,
we keep hearing confidence has gone in players, is it the same with your coaching department?
plenty of talk by coaches that we are unlucky, lose by narrow margins, is that an acceptable excuse or do you actually identify the narrow margins, and look how to fix them as part of continuous improvement process or just accept it

Id be a lot happier if some tough questions asked an answered and maybe give us some faith that we might actually be able to turn a corner, have some hope and not go to games expecting us to lose

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 07:49
Quote:
SiBolton
Well let�s face it the � media� is Harlequins, so hardly likely to slate anyone or ask difficult questions
I don�t believe that after stating top 6 is the goal after Tigers JK doesn�t know the ramifications of getting no points from the game, that being said I don�t think he�s writing Friday night off and thinks it will be a loss with Let�s get it out of the way comment, but hear whatever you like.

The problem has to lie with what�s happening in the dressing room and at SSP, I would really like to see an interview with Tofty and someone asking
�What are the reasons for us losing 4 on the bounce for the first time in 11 years�, �
we keep hearing confidence has gone in players, is it the same with your coaching department?
� plenty of talk by coaches that we are unlucky, lose by narrow margins, is that an acceptable excuse or do you actually identify the narrow margins, and look how to fix them as part of continuous improvement process or just accept it�

I�d be a lot happier if some tough questions asked an answered and maybe give us some faith that we might actually be able to turn a corner, have some hope and not go to games expecting us to lose

Well said.

Even in Wards interview, which at least had some passion to it, there was no real talk about what was actually going wrong and what we are doing to sort it.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
DOK. (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 08:04
Sorry - I hate cross posting but I just put this on another thread,

"If we lose then I don't think it it'll make much difference. I think the club is going to go through a big soul search/review before the London Irish game (I'm assuming the Sarries game is a given (loss) ).I think that's where JK's remark about getting Bath out the way comes from. When they can get off the treadmill of trying to pick up the players and prepare for the next game, then maybe they can step back and attempt to regroup and refocus. But I don't think they're expecting much different except a bit of pride from playing Bath."

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 09:29
Quote:
Scaramouche
So JK is rubbish because he does not come across as you would want in the meeja?
God give me strength.

If anyone is struggling with the concept of a straw man argument, here is a perfect example.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Fursty (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 10:18
Quote:
Stooperman
Quote:
Fursty
Quote:
Stooperman
I actually heard him use the expression "we'll get Friday out of the way", which sounds a lot like he is already accepting and preparing the team for a defeat on Friday night. That is unacceptable!

To be fair to JK that's a complete misrepresentation of what he said - he was asked if top 6 was out gone and said that he'd reassess following Friday's game.

I'm fully on board with the idea that things need to change and I'd happily see JK replaced, however peddling #fakenews doesn't do anyone any favours.

You've just posted Fake news, Fursty. HE did say "we'll get Friday out of the way first". So I didn't misrepresent him at all. Listen to the clip again. Its rather annoying to be accused of misrepresenting JK, when I actually quoted him verbatim.

It's perfectly possible to quote someone out of context and deliberately misrepresent what they had to say - there is absolutely no inference from JK's comments about getting Friday out of the way that he's 'preparing the team for defeat'.

I am expecting us to lose on Friday and we're clearly a team that it totally bereft of confidence. Right now, regardless of the result, I'd be happy with the team going out playing with passion and leaving everything they have on the pitch.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Cookie (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 10:23
Quote:
talkshowhost86
Quote:
SiBolton
Well let�s face it the � media� is Harlequins, so hardly likely to slate anyone or ask difficult questions
I don�t believe that after stating top 6 is the goal after Tigers JK doesn�t know the ramifications of getting no points from the game, that being said I don�t think he�s writing Friday night off and thinks it will be a loss with Let�s get it out of the way comment, but hear whatever you like.

The problem has to lie with what�s happening in the dressing room and at SSP, I would really like to see an interview with Tofty and someone asking
�What are the reasons for us losing 4 on the bounce for the first time in 11 years�, �
we keep hearing confidence has gone in players, is it the same with your coaching department?
� plenty of talk by coaches that we are unlucky, lose by narrow margins, is that an acceptable excuse or do you actually identify the narrow margins, and look how to fix them as part of continuous improvement process or just accept it�

I�d be a lot happier if some tough questions asked an answered and maybe give us some faith that we might actually be able to turn a corner, have some hope and not go to games expecting us to lose

Well said.

Even in Wards interview, which at least had some passion to it, there was no real talk about what was actually going wrong and what we are doing to sort it.

The only real chance for tough questioning is after live games (only a soundbite on the highlights package) or the Soundcloud type interviews. But with the questioning on the latter being so weak, they get away with it every week. There is little to no accountability for the fans to see.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 11:31
Quote:
RodneyRegis
Quote:
Scaramouche
So JK is rubbish because he does not come across as you would want in the meeja?
God give me strength.

If anyone is struggling with the concept of a straw man argument, here is a perfect example.


Doesn't that mean that you answer a different question in rebuttal? Me no understandy.



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
RodneyRegis (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 12:36
No, it means you purposefully draw an incorrect inference.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 12:55
But he said Churchillian and I picked him up on it. With some poetic exaggeration maybe but I don't understand the straw man inference inference?



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
talkshowhost86 (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 13:04
Quote:
Scaramouche
But he said Churchillian and I picked him up on it. With some poetic exaggeration maybe but I don't understand the straw man inference inference?

You said that I said he was rubbish because of the media stuff and tore down that argument with your hugely cutting and witty comment.

However you were tearing down an argument that hadn't actually been made. My argument is that he's not suited to being DOR for a collection of reasons.

Hence...straw man.

 
Re: JK on Soundcloud post Newcastle
Scaramouche (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 13:17
Ohhhh right.


There are several scarecrows round here in that case smiling smiley



If at first you don't succeed, Try, Try and Try again.


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